Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on August 19, 2003, 08:14:56 AM
-
maybe this (Iraq war) is just a way to bring them out into the open where we can deal with the rats with our military on their turf instead of on our turf after the fact with with our police and firemen.
-
Yup. Afterall, the Sept 11th hijackers were mainly Iraqi.
-
Americans :eek:
-
Originally posted by Dowding
Yup. Afterall, the Sept 11th hijackers were mainly Iraqi.
didn't say that
but the 9/11 murderous thugs were terrorists just as their peers are blowing up hotels in Iraq today
-
I think what eagler is saying is.."Foreign nationals in Iraq that sympathize with Al Queda type terrorists."
-
but the 9/11 murderous thugs were terrorists just as their peers are blowing up hotels in Iraq today
Really? The 9-11 people were Al Queda operatives bent on the destruction of America. These Iraqi sabateurs and terrorists are for the most part the remnants of a regime recently broken by the Coalition, who otherwise would be concerned with internal repression. I see no direct connection other than the use of violence.
If your point is that the Coalition is now ridding the world of bad men, then I agree. But I hardly think that is an achievable goal given the state of the world today and I strongly doubt that it is the motivation of the powers that be.
-
Originally posted by Dowding
I see no direct connection other than the use of violence.
So in other words, there is no direct connection between Saudi terrorists and Iraqi terrorists except for the fact that theyre all terrorists?
-
Originally posted by Dowding
But I hardly think that is an achievable goal given the state of the world today and I strongly doubt that it is the motivation of the powers that be.
Have you ever raised chickens or animals of any sort? When one is injured, the rest eventually start pecking, nibbling, biting it until it is dead. Sign of weakness usually brings forth aggressiveness by parties otherwise not interested in agression.
Personally, I see the US as being very vulnerable the last 10-15 years, with its "peak" on 9/11/2001. It seems to me that the U.S. Gov't is basically putting the word out that "we're wounded, but we're going to recover, don't PHUCK with us". Bravo I say.
-
Motivation is, I think, the key point here. I'm talking about the remnants of the regime who want to have the reigns back in their hands. There is a clear distinction between them, the foreign minority and the 9-11 attackers in terms of motivation.
-
dowding
how do you know who is carrying out the terrorists attacks in Iraq? Afghanistan?
how do you know their nationalities?
I paint them all with the same brush and wish them all the same fate ...
seems better for the military to pop them there. must be easier for them to wander into those countries and fight the "Great Satan" than to organize something in the states...
-
Conjecture - the same stuff that you are using to surmise that the endeavour was a strategy of feint and ambush.
Without that, we may as well go back to talking about gay marriage and fake breasts or crappy American cars. ;)
-
Speaking of which - whats the update on Mrs. Man Made Mammories, Dowding? You tag that or what?
-
See the Freddy vs Jason thread. Update posted. Negociations ongoing. ;)
-
Ya the americans has allways needed something to be paranoid about, first is was communism and now its terrorism...
Wag the fíng Dog...
-
Dating a stripper = paranoid.
Being attacked = war.
-
update....
iraq terriorsts truck bomb UN HQ building in bagadad...bad PR, thats not how terriorsts win the "hearts and minds" of the people.
-
Originally posted by Maniac
Ya the americans has allways needed something to be paranoid about, first is was communism and now its terrorism...
Wag the fíng Dog...
Maniac,
This statement highlights the fact that you don't know much about the Average American.
We don't sit around being paranoid all the time. If we did, we would have built a big wall around a city like say....Berlin or something.
9/11 happened in some part because we aren't paranoid. It also happened because we can be naive as well.
For the vast majority of us, we seem to go about our daily activities, without being paranoid at all. There are very specific limited duration times, when yes, we feel vulnerable, like immediately after a 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.
Now, you mentioned communism and terrorism. It seems both ideologies (if you can call terrorism an ideology), have demonstrated (as in tangible, specific acts) that they would rather the Americans not be around. Does that make them right and us wrong....No, nor is the converse true as well.
Of course, both are known for the benevolent ways in which they treat their OWN populace. I can't imagine why, if communism is such a paradise, that the USSR collapsed under it's own weight.
In short, we don't always, and never have needed anything to be paranoid about. We don't live our lives on a daily basis anywhere near want you described.
Governments will be paranoid. That's what they do. But, the American people are not, nor do we behave like your very simplified, wrong statement.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
maybe this (Iraq war) is just a way to bring them out into the open where we can deal with the rats with our military on their turf instead of on our turf after the fact with with our police and firemen.
Sorry, not all the terrorists are as stupid as you.
-
nevermind
-
Originally posted by john9001
update....
iraq terriorsts truck bomb UN HQ building in bagadad...bad PR, thats not how terriorsts win the "hearts and minds" of the people.
im may be paranoid, but how do you know they were these evil terrorist ? .. it could be partizans as well
-
Originally posted by Stringer
9/11 happened in some part because we aren't paranoid. It also happened because we can be naive as well.
i dont think it was only about naivity ....
its more about intolerance, ignorance and arogance... (lack of eduaction in international relation ships)
why do i think ? ... Just ask about official purpose of 9/11 act.
It have official reason, whitch is still on US administrative's ignore list.... so more and more US sheep die every day in Iraq with all these who support them, and more will die... every dead soldier in Iraq is only show of govermental ignorance to these statments.
More time US spend in Iraq, more clear are worries of 'terorists'
in the begining they were fantacis, now they are groups who warned agains real potencial thread ( specialy alquida)
and current situation is more less win for 'terrorist'
today i read in news paper, that Shia and Sunni are joining together in Iraq and they are offcialy agains US presence in Iraq
ok so 90% people will be agains US in next few months, coz they leaders will exlpain them why to be.
US offcials said about the fact, that people are joining, "its baaaad.. very baaad, coz they listen they religios leaders" instead of US Tv shop show
President of Iraqi TV, whitch came to Iraq from exile has canceled his contract, because americans didnt suply TV in time, when he didnt pass TV program to american 'observers' for censure and refused to use their 'advices'
did you hear about american soldier, whitch shoot man from Tv with camera, coz he 'think' that he have rocket luncher ?... lol
some journalist are a bit brainless too
-
Originally posted by threedays
did you hear about american soldier, whitch shoot man from Tv with camera, coz he 'think' that he have rocket luncher ?...
No laughing matter IMO. Put yourself in the shoes of a US Serviceman. You're buds are getting mowed down by RPG's, shoulder-launched. Now, take a look at these "shouldered" cameras, which from about 100 feet and out, look just like a RPG. I was frankly surprised this hadn't happened SOONER!
-
<<>>>
they are killing the sheep ...now thats going to far.
3daze, you are so wrong on so many things i don't even know where to start. so live in your ignorance.
-
sounds like some of you cheer on the terror
as long as it is against "evil america"
no wonder the world is as arse backwards as it is ...
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
No laughing matter IMO. Put yourself in the shoes of a US Serviceman. You're buds are getting mowed down by RPG's, shoulder-launched. Now, take a look at these "shouldered" cameras, which from about 100 feet and out, look just like a RPG. I was frankly surprised this hadn't happened SOONER!
you miss my point ... i blame about cameraman... dunno, but messing around munition store with camera, i expect they gonna shoot me only coz i could spy ... soldiers acted right
-
I'm not sure if they acted "right", but they reacted as they were trained. Someone mentioned painting those camera's florescent orange...wouldn't work, then you'd have some of these guys with RPG's painting them orange.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
sounds like some of you cheer on the terror
as long as it is against "evil america"
no wonder the world is as arse backwards as it is ...
nobody said that america is evil .... (if so show me where)
i just said, that a lot of americans are ignorant on field of international relation ships and history
-
come on Rip ... if journalist want to move in country where every body wear gun and soldiers shoot al whats move closer that 110 meters to them, they should not walk out w/o big flag of UN or their oven country ... and when they want to film something, they should ask if it seems that object of their interest belongs to someone ... shouldnt they ?
-
It just occurred to me that I don't miss either orel or towd at all. Too bad their being banned from the HTC boards only translated to getting new IDs and posting the same old drivel.
Eagler,
I don't believe your initial assesment of the situation is anything even remotely accurate nor astute. Dowding is going to win that debate because you're basing your argument on the "wouldn't it be wonderfull if all of our enemies were actually the same small group of people" sentiment.
To those that don't think we should be involved in Iraq, get a clue. State run terrorism will no longer be something that is flaunted for all the world to see. It will be dealt with.
MiniD
-
Mini D check history if you will annihilate small groups of 'terrorists' it will only form bigger groups
this never worked... anyway nobody still intersting in why they do sutch evil things... ohh welll ... have a nice day :)
-
just saying, if the scumbags weren't busy killin the hand that is trying to help them, they'd be more prone and available to bring their sandbag arses here and cause death and destruction
-
Originally posted by threedays
Mini D check history if you will annihilate small groups of 'terrorists' it will only form bigger groups
this never worked... anyway nobody still intersting in why they do sutch evil things... ohh welll ... have a nice day :)
You're right. We should support the terrorists. How could we be so blind.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
just saying, if the scumbags weren't busy killin the hand that is trying to help them, they'd be more prone and available to bring their sandbag arses here and cause death and destruction
And I'm saying that there are no more/less terrorists in the states because of the Iraq situation. The two simply do not correlate.
I think orel took the time to say something incredibly stupid in there too. He's batting 1000 for stupid posts in this thread.
MiniD
-
i didnt say support them .. all i said was do not ignore them ....
so basicaly only one way how to get attention of people like you is.... 9/11 (nothing new for world, only for US.. just have a look on London,UK,Former Yugoslavia,etc..)
imagine, that your leaders do some BS even w/o note it... then some small smilling playboy came to them and start to whine..
they will answer him same stuff you did answer to me.... what should be proper respond of that small guy, whitch represent interest of some people ?
-
Originally posted by threedays
i didnt say support them .. all i said was do not ignore them ....
so basicaly only one way how to get attention of people like you is.... 9/11 (nothing new for world, only for US.. just have a look on London,UK,Former Yugoslavia,etc..)
imagine, that your leaders do some BS even w/o note it... then some small smilling playboy came to them and start to whine..
they will answer him same stuff you did answer to me.... what should be proper respond of that small guy, whitch represent interest of some people ?
We aren't ignoring them. We are bombing the crap out of them one by one. They have our full attention. You are right, though, it IS new to us. However, unlike the rest of the world, we are going to do something about it.
-
Originally posted by threedays
Mini D check history if you will annihilate small groups of 'terrorists' it will only form bigger groups
this never worked... anyway nobody still intersting in why they do sutch evil things... ohh welll ... have a nice day :)
I don't think you can make this as a blanket statement, Orel.
Look at Libya as an example.
During the 80's it was one of the most vocal at being a terrorist supporting state.
We dealt with them on the known level, (i.e. brute force), and probably we dealt with them through more backwater diplomatic initiatives as well.
Point being that we dealt with them on both levels, showing them that we can act with brute force when needed.
These days, Libya is not the terrorist sponsoring state it once was. Hell, Qaddafy has even offered to help in the struggles with Al Qaeda.
Orel, as hard as it is to understand, sometimes no matter how you deal with a group, they will still do "evil" things.
A perfect example would be how the Germans were dealt with in the '30's. The thought was appeasement would placate the Reich government. It didn't.
This example cannot be brushed away as irrelevant, either. It is completely relevant to your arguement.
-
I think you silenced him with facts, Stringer. :D
-
I fail to understand any sense in this statement at all.
...-Gixer
Originally posted by Eagler
maybe this (Iraq war) is just a way to bring them out into the open where we can deal with the rats with our military on their turf instead of on our turf after the fact with with our police and firemen.
-
Originally posted by Gixer
I fail to understand any sense in this statement at all.
...-Gixer
It's simple. We'd rather get them to show their faces there in Iraq where our army is there to deal with them (kill them) in stead of hunting them down here after they pull off another 9/11.
Like a rop-a-dope.....
-
Originally posted by GScholz
I just wanted to point out that the frequent attacks on primarily US military personnel and equipment (forces of other nationalities have also been hit, but not as much as the US) are not acts of terrorism, but legal attacks made by guerillas.
Define "guerilla" does it include syrians, iranians, saudies etc?
-
i think calling them"guerilla" is demeaning to real "guerrillas" , i think they should be called "monkeys" or "chimps"or even 'baboons"
-
Probably have to call 'em GOrillas first...
There is a difference between guerilla fighters and terrorists.
You can tell by the targets they habitually choose...
Restaurants, civilian busses, hospitals? Terrorists.
Army convoys, bases and anything military? Guerillas.
Takes cajones to attack something that shoots back, blowing up a pizza parlor just takes brainwashing a dupe.
-
There are honourable guerrilleros and cowardly guerilleros, like there are honourable soldiers and cowardly soldiers.
-
Sorry but that's ridiculous. With that logic you then believe that the invasion of Iraq has reduced the likelyhood of a terrorism attack in the U.S rather then increased it.
As far as being in Iraq "Killing Them" they will always be a threat And terrorism can happen anywhere at anytime. IMHO the invasion of Iraq just gives more reason,resources and man power to their cause.
...-Gixer
Originally posted by Udie
It's simple. We'd rather get them to show their faces there in Iraq where our army is there to deal with them (kill them) in stead of hunting them down here after they pull off another 9/11.
Like a rop-a-dope.....
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Probably have to call 'em GOrillas first...
There is a difference between guerilla fighters and terrorists.
Its easy...
Freedom fighters, Guerillas, partisans etc are terrorists who you support
terrorists are freedom fighters, partisans, guerillas you don't.
Tronsky
-
eagler are you still trying to find a justification for this war?
-
It's easy to justify this war.
1. Iraq started it by invading Kuwait
2. Iraq was kicked out of Kuwait and hostilities stopped after Iraq signed the cease fire agreements.
3. Iraq never complied with cease fire agreements, thus the resumption .
Iraq could have prevented this war from the very begining and up to nearly the final stages. Iraq is to blame for it's own actions Frogman. I know it's hard for a Liberal to understand that the world's peace isn't based only around words and treaties and unlimited chances to comply with them.
-
an occupation without our allies help wasnt the correct choice either. You have to remember all france and germany disagreed with was the timetable.
-
Originally posted by Frogm4n
an occupation without our allies help wasnt the correct choice either. You have to remember all france and germany disagreed with was the timetable.
So? They disagree with bathing and sanctions, too, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to.
-
Originally posted by Stringer
I don't think you can make this as a blanket statement, Orel.
Look at Libya as an example.
During the 80's it was one of the most vocal at being a terrorist supporting state.
We dealt with them on the known level, (i.e. brute force), and probably we dealt with them through more backwater diplomatic initiatives as well.
Point being that we dealt with them on both levels, showing them that we can act with brute force when needed.
These days, Libya is not the terrorist sponsoring state it once was. Hell, Qaddafy has even offered to help in the struggles with Al Qaeda.
Orel, as hard as it is to understand, sometimes no matter how you deal with a group, they will still do "evil" things.
A perfect example would be how the Germans were dealt with in the '30's. The thought was appeasement would placate the Reich government. It didn't.
This example cannot be brushed away as irrelevant, either. It is completely relevant to your arguement.
It was prove that Libya support tesrrorist and they deny to cooperate....
when exactly did US prove that there are terrorist in Iraq, where exactly did they apply to give them to US, where exactly did Iraq declied to give them ?
There were sanctionson on libya by UN as well ... in iraq you have no support by UN...
so i dont think that Iraq is similary situation like Libya
-
Originally posted by -tronski-
Its easy...
Freedom fighters, Guerillas, partisans etc are terrorists who you support
terrorists are freedom fighters, partisans, guerillas you don't.
Tronsky
hehe good to see that someone still use head here :)
-
Originally posted by NUKE
It's easy to justify this war.
and how will you justify ocupation ?
-
Originally posted by threedays
It was prove that Libya support tesrrorist and they deny to cooperate....
when exactly did US prove that there are terrorist in Iraq, where exactly did they apply to give them to US, where exactly did Iraq declied to give them ?
There were sanctionson on libya by UN as well ... in iraq you have no support by UN...
so i dont think that Iraq is similary situation like Libya
Catching abu abbas IN a terrorist training camp enough proof for me.
As for justifying the occupation, I must have missed the memo saying we'd run everything past you before we did it.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
And where exactly did you find him? ... Oh, that's right, in Kurdish held territory. Nice friends you guys have down there.
When did the kurds control Baghdad?
Nice try.
-
I pity our soldiers in Iraq. With terrorism/urban combat it's almost too difficult to defend against. Most Brit's are fully aware of terrorism having put up with the IRA over the last 30 odd years. It wasn't just the bombs and killings, but the false alarms too which all take their toll.
One thing I am curious to know though, and I don't mean this in a detrimental way, I would really like to know if people in NY (Irish American/sympathizers) have stopped collecting for the IRA? There are some people that always manage to detach themselves from terrorism but the most promising thing about it today is that, almost, all countries realise the growing threat and that by working together we can try and put an end to it all. Don't think it will ever happen entirely but I'm sure most terrorist groups will think again. I'm sure Libya did think again!
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Terrorist training camp in Baghdad? ROFL! Good one!
ROFL at yourself all you want, then check any news source and see where he was captured. Right outside Baghdad, laughing boy.
Go practice your reading comprehension.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Was there a terrorist training camp there?
you catch on quick!
-
Originally posted by GScholz
But you don't apparently. Abu Abbas was hiding in Iraq, as was the notorious terrorist Abu Nidal until last year when the Iraqi's caught him and killed him (although they reported it as suicide, lol). There was no terrorist training camp anywhere near Baghdad you fool, you would expect the reporters and foreign businessmen to notice the AK47s firing down the range, lol the idea of a terrorist training camp in the Capital of the country is beyond stupid, and even Hussein wasn't that gone in the head. Every camp that has been uncovered has been in the Kurdish controlled (i.e. not Iraqi controlled) North.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html
keep yapping. Even the liberal rags ran the story. Your hole is getting pretty deep, want me to order you a backhoe?
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Suuuuuure. You got more than this mans story to back up that claim? I mean, your troops are swarming all over Baghdad ... have they found any terrorist training camps?
You would think FOXnews would have mentioned a terrorist training camp.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,84265,00.html
You'd better order that backhoe for yourself, looks like you're going to need it.
Ahhh, that's right. I forgot how you Liberals are. People who have BEEN there, don't count. You know much more.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Ah, I forgot how you ultra right-wing extremists are like. Evidence, who needs evidence? This nice Iraqi isn't trying to cover his own donut ... he's our friend! And we only need the word of one man to kill people in the name of freedom and justice. Nice.
A reason? We don't need a reason.
DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER LIBERAL ALERT DANGER
-
Originally posted by GScholz
KILL THE MARTLET FAMILY KILL THE MARTLET FAMILY.
You know, I'm considered pretty rightwing here in my country. You'd probably be considered a fascist. Just a thought.
Why do you want to kill a bunch of mythical birds?
If you're considered right wing, then it's a good thing we stepped in 50 years ago, or you'd be speaking German.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
You didn't step in 50 years ago ... the Russians did.
Oddly, the 29th Ranger Battalion pops immediately into my mind. Perhaps you should spend a little time learning your own history, before you start to criticize mine.
-
hehe one of 9/11 terrorist was in Czech before he went to US...
may be you should come here and ocupy us...... you know we have a lot of forests here and lot of various camps...... mostly full of half nude people ... but you never know :D
-
Originally posted by threedays
hehe one of 9/11 terrorist was in Czech before he went to US...
may be you should come here and ocupy us...... you know we have a lot of forests here and lot of various camps...... mostly full of half nude people ... but you never know :D
Americans would never be able to handle the half nude thing - the idea of topless beaches would have them all all a-quiver....
-
hehe?
9/11 was such a riot - we are still laughing :rolleyes:
-
Go Norway!
you world power you
-
yeah Norway could be nice country... i meet 1 norway guy in tehran... we travell together from Thr to Prag .. was fun....
but Norway isnt that cheap so watch out :D
-
aaah we know these who speak a bit german ..... another forgoten hitler jungen
:D
-
"maybe this (Iraq war) is just a way to bring them out into the open where we can deal with the rats with our military on their turf instead of on our turf after the fact with with our police and firemen."
I didn't read much of the whole discussion Eagler but I agree 100% with you. Iraq has become the "fly paper" and whether it was intentional or not this relocation of the "battlefield" smack dab into the heart of the Middle East has occured and IMO it's a hell of a lot better that the bombs are being set off over there rather in Times Square or on the Golden Gate bridge. My hope and prayer is that they blow more of themselves up than our soldiers there.
In the meantime it has become much harded for terrorists to mount an attack here let alone even get in. Harder - not impossible though.
-
I equate most of those Euro countries with the little Pekinese that lives next door. The dang thing runs to the edge of its lawn and yaps annoyingly every time you walk by. YAP YAP YAP. You can't shut it up.
If you take a step towards it, though, it runs for safety. As soon as you turn your back to it, YAP YAP YAP.
If another, bigger, dog comes on it's lawn, it stops yapping at you and runs between your leg for help.
Keep yapping, little Pekinese, we'll still be here when you need help again.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
I equate most of those Euro countries with the little Pekinese that lives next door. The dang thing runs to the edge of its lawn and yaps annoyingly every time you walk by. YAP YAP YAP. You can't shut it up.
If you take a step towards it, though, it runs for safety. As soon as you turn your back to it, YAP YAP YAP.
If another, bigger, dog comes on it's lawn, it stops yapping at you and runs between your leg for help.
Keep yapping, little Pekinese, we'll still be here when you need help again.
LOL!