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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Erlkonig on August 20, 2003, 11:08:08 AM

Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Erlkonig on August 20, 2003, 11:08:08 AM
http://www.detnews.com/2003/politics/0308/20/a09w-249415.htm

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Veterans plan to exact action at polls

GOP-led House reneges on pledge to pass $3.2 billion for VA medical care

By Dennis Camire / Gannett News Service

WASHINGTON -- Veterans are condemning House Republicans' failure to deliver a $3.2 billion boost for the Veterans Affairs Department that would have shrunk the agency's waiting list for medical care.

"A shameless betrayal" is how AMVETS sums it up.

"A moral outrage," the American Legion said.

"Abominable" is the word from the Non Commissioned Officers Association.

"Veterans have been pushed to the limits," said Joe Violante, national legislative director for Disabled American Veterans. "They're being lied to, and they're not tolerating it."

The broken promise -- the second time in a year Congress has reneged on a pledge to veterans -- has veterans vowing to remember at the ballot box.

"They're saying there has got to be a change made because if there isn't, we're never going to get what we're due," said Richard DeLong, a Vietnam veteran in Lafayette, La.

During April budget debates, the GOP-led House -- under criticism for not putting enough money into VA medical care -- approved a nonbinding budget that promised to increase VA medical spending by $1.8 billion more than the additional $1.4 billion President Bush had requested.

The money would have helped more than 132,000 veterans who wait six months or longer for their first VA doctor's appointment. Although the VA's medical budget has increased $8.3 billion in the past seven years, the agency's spending on each patient has decreased $624.

Last month, House Republican leadership, bowing to Bush administration pressure to curb spending and their own desire for hometown projects, cut the promised $1.8 billion.

Despite failed efforts to add the money back, the bill passed 316-109 with 59 Republicans and 50 Democrats opposing. Of the House Veterans Affairs Committee's 31 members, 20 voted against the bill, including committee Chairman Chris Smith, R-N.J., and top Democrat Lane Evans of Illinois.

The bill's next step is Senate consideration this fall.

"We got fooled, and we got whupped," said Richard F. Weidman, director of government relations for Vietnam Veterans of America. "We are not going to let individual members of this Congress forget this vote."

American Legion national commander Ronald F. Conley said the discouraging part is that the House GOP leadership warned Republicans that pet projects in the bill would be in jeopardy if they didn't vote yes.

"We have the money to pay for a statue of the Roman god Vulcan in Birmingham, Ala. We have money to pay for a bike trail in North Dakota. We have money to fund a Nevada helicopter company that performs Elvis impersonator weddings," Conley said. "And yet we have neither the heart nor the will to ensure that all United States veterans receive the medical care they earned and we owe them."

President Bush may hear more on the issue Tuesday when he is to speak to 13,000 delegates at the American Legion's national convention in St. Louis.

Congress' actions have many veterans talking about political consequences.

"Veterans more and more are beginning to sense a loss of faith and confidence in the administration," said Richard C. Schneider, director of veteran and state affairs for the Non Commissioned Officers Association. "They're no longer willing to be the quiet, accepting veterans that they have been in the past. I think they're actually going to hold some people accountable."

Veterans are talking about increasing turnout at the polls next year, veterans groups say.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: DiabloTX on August 20, 2003, 11:33:45 AM
VA hospitals are such a nightmare that I don't blame the Rep's for this act.  The money would be better off contracting VA's medical needs to private industries.
Title: Re: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Martlet on August 20, 2003, 11:58:19 AM
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Originally posted by Erlkonig





WAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: AKIron on August 20, 2003, 12:14:18 PM
My Dad (a Korean war vet) got a quick appointment here at the VA Hospital in Dallas and found it to be the cleanest and best maintained hospital he's ever seen.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: DiabloTX on August 20, 2003, 12:19:42 PM
Good to see that.  I hope they are turning things around for the better.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: capt. apathy on August 20, 2003, 01:16:12 PM
My dad has been going to the VA for many years.  it was really bad in the 80's, long waits,  rude doctors treating patients like welfare cases instead of men who earned this care.

in the 90's it got much better, much better treatment.  now I hear that the funding has been cut so much in the last couple years that the portland VA hospital is having to lease beds to the OHSU hospital.



btw- it's not just vets who are getting screwed,  active duty soliers are recieving aproxamatly a 30% cut in combat pay nexxt month
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: AKIron on August 20, 2003, 01:22:17 PM
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
btw- it's not just vets who are getting screwed,  active duty soliers are recieving aproxamatly a 30% cut in combat pay nexxt month


That really sucks. Most GIs are already living at almost poverty level. To deny them a few extra bucks a month for getting shot at is very demoralizing.
Title: Re: Re: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: 10Bears on August 20, 2003, 01:32:36 PM
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Originally posted by Martlet
WAAAAAAAAAAAAH


This is how Martlet supports the troops :mad:
Title: Re: Re: Re: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: k2cok on August 20, 2003, 01:55:24 PM
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Originally posted by 10Bears
This is how Martlet supports the troops :mad:


Pretty obvious he's not a veteran.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Martlet on August 20, 2003, 01:55:25 PM
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Originally posted by 10Bears
This is how Martlet supports the troops :mad:

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Originally posted by k2cok
Pretty obvious he's not a veteran.


I AM a veteran, moron.   Quit your whining.  Had you even bothered to read the stupid article he linked to, you'd have realized that more REPUBLICANS opposed the bill with the VA cuts than Democrats did.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: MrLars on August 20, 2003, 01:56:20 PM
You guys are just seeing the tip of the storm....Vet groups all over America are organizing to vote out those responsible.

This is NOT the way America honors it's Vets, there'll be hell to pay!
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Martlet on August 20, 2003, 02:05:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MrLars
You guys are just seeing the tip of the storm....Vet groups all over America are organizing to vote out those responsible.

This is NOT the way America honors it's Vets, there'll be hell to pay!


I agree.  I hope they vote out all the Democrats this time.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: MrLars on August 20, 2003, 02:49:39 PM
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Originally posted by Martlet
I agree.  I hope they vote out all the Democrats this time.


This shouldn't be a partyline vote, all who voted for these cuts whether they be Dems OR Reps should be voted out....IMO
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Mini D on August 20, 2003, 03:00:07 PM
"During April budget debates, the GOP-led House -- under criticism for not putting enough money into VA medical care -- approved a nonbinding budget that promised to increase VA medical spending by $1.8 billion more than the additional $1.4 billion President Bush had requested."

They were given an additional 1.4 billion, but were hoping for more.  Why was this thread going on about budget cuts again?

And Cpt... the Portland Veteran's Hospital has traditionally been one of the worst managed Veteran's Hospitals in the system.  I spent a couple years working there... it was pathetic.

MiniD
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: capt. apathy on August 20, 2003, 05:08:34 PM
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And Cpt... the Portland Veteran's Hospital has traditionally been one of the worst managed Veteran's Hospitals in the system. I spent a couple years working there... it was pathetic.


that was deffinatly how it was in the late 80's when my dad started going there. (had to make a few 'scenes' myself, when the Dr's wheren't giving my father the respect he deserved, fortunatly for me security was very understanding after I explained the situation)

there was a huge improvement in the 90's to the point where he gets decent care now.


as far as the 'cuts issue'. while they may be getting more money it is a long way from keeping up with the rise in healthcare costs.  if the price of supplies and meds goes up 30% (just to throw a number out there for the sake of argument) and you increase funding 2 or 3 % then in effect it is a cut.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Mini D on August 20, 2003, 05:19:09 PM
Now you're just pulling numbers out of the air.

I'm wondering how many VA hospitals there are in the U.S.  It can't be much more than 200.  1.4 bill translates to 70 mil per in extra.  8.3 billion translates to 415 million per hospital.  That's at least 485 million per hospital simply in additional spending since the mid 90's.  It's INCREASED since the time you said was optimal.

9.7 billion divided by 180,000 is $54k per patient per year.  That is simply in increases.  I don't know what their whole budget is, but if it goes up 9.7 billion and it's still not enough I gotta think it's not because they weren't getting enough money.  My money says any private hospital run the same way as a VA would be bankrupt in no time at all.

MiniD
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Mini D on August 20, 2003, 05:22:38 PM
Ooops... it was 132,000 veterans vs 180,000.  Guess that makes it about $70k per.

MiniD
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Erlkonig on August 20, 2003, 06:05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Mini D
Now you're just pulling numbers out of the air.

I'm wondering how many VA hospitals there are in the U.S.  It can't be much more than 200.  1.4 bill translates to 70 mil per in extra.  8.3 billion translates to 415 million per hospital.  That's at least 485 million per hospital simply in additional spending since the mid 90's.  It's INCREASED since the time you said was optimal.
[/b]

The VHA runs a number of outpatient clinics and other facilities outside the traditional inpatient hospital setting.  Your guess is probably off by a factor of 4 or so.  

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9.7 billion divided by 180,000 is $54k per patient per year.  That is simply in increases.  I don't know what their whole budget is, but if it goes up 9.7 billion and it's still not enough I gotta think it's not because they weren't getting enough money.  My money says any private hospital run the same way as a VA would be bankrupt in no time at all.


Well no ****, a private hospital is a business.  The mission of the VHA is to provide quality health care for veterans and current members of the armed services.  Besides clinical care, the VHA supports a large amount of both basic and clinical research.

Those who served during WWII, the largest population of veterans, are entering the last stages of their lives.  I remember the figure that 50% of a patient's health care costs are spent in their last year of life.  It should be no surprise that the VA is running into higher costs.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: capt. apathy on August 20, 2003, 06:27:22 PM
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Now you're just pulling numbers out of the air.


absolutely,  I admited that it was just for the sake of argument when I threw it out there.

the point is that we owe veterans decent health care regardless of cost.  it was part of the package when they went to war, they did there part now the time is here for us to pay the bill.  to just decide that we can't afford to provide decent care is not only unethical, you'd think it would be a breach of contract
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Mini D on August 20, 2003, 06:51:58 PM
Owing them a decent healthcare system has nothing to do with throwing more money out there.  It needs to start with better management.  To be honest, I don't believe the government is capable of efficiently managing a hospital.

MiniD
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Montezuma on August 20, 2003, 11:16:12 PM
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Originally posted by Mini D
To be honest, I don't believe the government is capable of efficiently managing a hospital.

MiniD


Yeah, they can't do business effective things like throwing out people with no money or insurance.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: lord dolf vader on August 20, 2003, 11:26:22 PM
poor man votin for the republicans is a cow voting for the butcher.

great grandad told me that.


he was right.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: Drunky on August 21, 2003, 12:17:30 AM
I have had experience at the Houston VA.

I've never had any problems there.
Title: Republican House has other priorities than ensuring care for veterans
Post by: NUKE on August 21, 2003, 01:24:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
poor man votin for the republicans is a cow voting for the butcher.

great grandad told me that.


he was right.


any man voting for a democrat is a misguided soul voting for the devil.

I just made that up.

I am right.