Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SELECTOR on August 21, 2003, 02:53:37 PM
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how about having bomb fuses for certain bombers set to there operational alt? I for one am realy fed up with these low level dweebs.. i would have them all above at least 8k..what say YOU?
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You forgot to close the HTML tag on your comment, thought I'd help you out.
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
how about having bomb fuses for certain bombers set to there operational alt? I for one am realy fed up with these low level dweebs.. i would have them all above at least 8k..what say YOU?
Is love level bombing any worse than vultching? They are both simply highly effective and accurate ways of dispensing with yer enema.
Sakai
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Originally posted by Sakai
They are both simply highly effective and accurate ways of dispensing with yer enema.
Sakai
Hmm...never knew it could do THAT...
A B-17 formation diving on a CV is just stupid, but something like an A20 should be used for low level bombing. I agree with the fuses or maybe making it impossible to drop rack-mounted bombs while in a dive.
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I think dive bombing a B17 or Lancaster is a bit gamey/dweebish but not a low lvl bomb run.
Then thats just my opinion and I am nobody.
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just limit the angle of attack at which a level bomber can drop bombs.
Such as lanc and b17, any aircraft incapable of dive bombing.
SKurj
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Originally posted by AcId
I think dive bombing a B17 or Lancaster is a bit gamey/dweebish but not a low lvl bomb run.
Then thats just my opinion and I am nobody.
AcID,
You're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh darn it,
people like you.
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Skurj, AoA is the angle at which the air is travelling over the wing. I believe you mean Pitch.
Air wing
------->...... /____/
................./____/
(Observe my uber leet acsii skills)
That'd be AoA of a plane that just nosed down and had little vertical speed, of course the wing would be at less steep of an angle, but, you get the idea.. but once the aircraft picks up vertical speed, the air would be..
..air
.../\
../..\........wing
..//......../____/
.//......../____/
.. Relative to the aircraft, so in a dive with enough speed, the AoA could normalize again..
Pitch..
____________________level____ _____________________
That is be the only angle a level bomber should be able to bomb at.
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oops well maybe not...
how about limiting a level bombers ability to drop based on pitch/AoA +)
Any angle over say + or under -20 deg (i dunno whats realistic) and bombs won't drop
SKurj
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How about forcing level bombers to only drop from bombsight?
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How about forcing level bombers to only drop from bombsight?
great idea since i use the bombsight almost everytime.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
How about forcing level bombers to only drop from bombsight?
Nah, that would just have dweebs diving with their finger on the bomb drop button and another on f6.
Having a system where you can only drop your load when your between -10 and +10 degrees off level would be better imo.
Btw, could the ju88 drop its internal payload while in a dive, or only the wing mounted bombs?
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Originally posted by BenDover
Btw, could the ju88 drop its internal payload while in a dive, or only the wing mounted bombs?
Good question.
I don't see many "dive bombing" B-17s and Lancs tho I see plenty of "low and level" runs. The 17 just doesn't dive well, nor does the Lanc or B-26. The Ju88 dives brilliantly though as does the Boston/A-20.
People complain about "suicide dweebs" but the vast majority of flights are not landed so I reckon if a guy chooses one plane over another to die in, it's his cabbage to shred. That whole pitch differential of ten +/- degrees to bomb in 4 engined planes sounds good to me. Also, no formation dive bombing. Thus, if you want to DB in a Ju88 or Boston you have to specify that capability which limits you to one AC.
Sakai
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Originally posted WHINE :D by SELECTOR
how about having bomb fuses for certain bombers set to there operational alt? I for one am realy fed up with these low level dweebs.. i would have them all above at least 8k..what say YOU?
That might mess up a lot of special events i.e. Operation Tidal Wave
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B-17 Formations (sub for B-24)
Take off from A13, fly nap-of-the-earth to the refinery and support complexes at Ploesti, Romania.
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Must stay below 1000'AGL. NOTE: Exceeding 500'AGL will show on bar Dar and allow Axis fighters to roll early.
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Well the reason a Ju-88 dives so well is that it had dive bombing as a requirement by the RLM to perform that function as did nearly every German bomber.
One thing that I love seeing is a dweeb Lancaster coming in low over a base and then pulling up into a loop. Its called instant 3 kills by me. Just spray a few rounds on the drones and when they blow you get two kills and then the dweeb will be dying after falling under the massive hit percentage I miss with my Corsair. It must be some new Rookland kind of tactic that causes them to loose over half of their bombers on an attack. Because I don't remember seeing this dweeb tactic before the last few weeks.
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low level bombers makes excellent targets, keep em comming
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Low level buffs are so fun, So many ways to kill them . My favorite is just sitting tantalizingly out of range watching him spray away from tail turret then he hits a mountain or alternativly he sees and pulls up at witch point I dive in on his helpless formations.
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Originally posted by Reschke
Well the reason a Ju-88 dives so well is that it had dive bombing as a requirement by the RLM to perform that function as did nearly every German bomber.
One thing that I love seeing is a dweeb Lancaster coming in low over a base and then pulling up into a loop. Its called instant 3 kills by me. Just spray a few rounds on the drones and when they blow you get two kills and then the dweeb will be dying after falling under the massive hit percentage I miss with my Corsair. It must be some new Rookland kind of tactic that causes them to loose over half of their bombers on an attack. Because I don't remember seeing this dweeb tactic before the last few weeks.
Heck, it has dive flaps.
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Why not just make the bombs on hvy buffs dropable from bombardier position only and while at it door opening controls.
just my .02
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umm
Rutilant: How about forcing level bombers to only drop from bombsight?
Gwjr2 could this be what your saying???
Then By Ben DoverNah, that would just have dweebs diving with their finger on the bomb drop button and another on f6.
Answer to your statement???
DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!!!FOO!!!
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Originally posted by Rutilant
How about forcing level bombers to only drop from bombsight?
Bingo
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Originally posted by empire2
DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!!!FOO!!!
What?
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Low level bombing is a historical fact....so removing it would be silly.
Dive bombing a Lanc or B17 seems very 'gamey'....so removing it would be very good 8).
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Originally posted by ALF
Low level bombing is a historical fact....so removing it would be silly.
Dive bombing a Lanc or B17 seems very 'gamey'....so removing it would be very good 8).
Low-level bombing in a B-17 is a historical fact? I'm sorry, you're going to have to cite a source or two on that one before I believe you.
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Ploesti
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I've read that B-17s were used sparingly in low alt bomb runs in 1942, I think anti-ship.
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Originally posted by mos
Low-level bombing in a B-17 is a historical fact? I'm sorry, you're going to have to cite a source or two on that one before I believe you.
Ya, I'm Rutilant, here a few paragraphs, not 17s but point made:
On Aug. 1, 1943, Army Air Corps B-24 bombers took off from bases in Libya and headed toward the heavily defended target in Romania, more than a thousand miles away. Their target: the Ploesti oil fields that supplied 60 percent of Germany's crude oil.
To achieve surprise, said Whalen, the bombers flew at treetop height, but clouds broke up the formations and German radar detected them and alerted ground defenses. In the confusion of battle, some crews made bombing runs through heavy smoke over targets that already had been attacked. The second wave of planes were caught in bursts of delayed action bombs that had been dropped previously
Here's another from the dam-busting raids on the Ruhr:
The idea eventually won the approval of the British high command, who, after all, would not be the ones charged with flying through a wall of flak to deliver 10,000-pound bombs at a precise distance from a dam while flying at a precise, slow speed at an altitude of exactly 60 feet.
and one more from the Pacific:
Although the airplane was originally intended for level bombing from medium altitudes, it was used extensively in the Pacific area for bombing Japanese airfields from treetop level and for strafing and skip bombing enemy shipping. More than 9,800 B-25s were built during WW II.
Dolittle raid was low level also if I'm not mistaken.
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Let's not even get started on skip bombs
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My father-in-law was a B-25 pilot in WWII flying over the Solomns in 1943. He told me several stories of low level bombing using mainly fragmentation bombs but also GP bombs. He said raids at 10k or above for him were rare.
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A guy that used to work for me. Had some great pics from wwii. He was a marine in the PAC. He had a buddy flew b25 he took a ride with him once on a low level bombing run. He had several pics he took from about 300' dropping para retard bombs on a Japanese base. Line of bombs falling you can see enemy running all over huts blowing up. They came back a little later and straifed the base he didnt have pics of that he said he was too busy puking to take pics of the straifing run. He said he would never wanted to ride in a plane again after that run. He much prefered fighting on the ground.
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"AcId
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Houston, Texarse
Posts: 604"
Acid, what part of Houston you work/ live in? I work downtown/ live in Richmond.
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Let me be clear:
I never said that B17's in particular were used for low loevel bombing (although they were, albiet very rarely). The point is that many LEVEL bombers, with bombsights, where used at medium to low altitudes. Heck those damn busting brits sure come to mind.
The idea isnt that its the most common (or smart) thing in the world. Just that they were able to do it, nothing stopped them from being done that way...and they have in fact be used in the exact fashon we see in AH.......how high was the Dolittle raid again :D :D :D
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i am a buff guy and i can tell why you cee so much low bomber runs. you have a beter chance to make it to target. the fix is simpell get rid of the wind. buff will go higher it gets old bombing from 15k all the time. noing fighters are wating at 20 k to pick you off. i say if you are willing to take the time to go to 25 or 30k in a bomber you shud be abble to hit what you are trying to hit . and thin all we will have to worry about is 163 and 262 hell the bombers are tuff enuff with out makeing it any harder for thim
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If you want to have less NOE bombers, we would have to get rid of damn calibration. When flying alone, you can not do the calibration and fire at the nme on your 6. That's impossible!
That's why I always fly NOE with my B26's and then drop without using bombsight in a max 2-3 seconds window.
I don't like to have a gunner wasting my ammo. I rarely miss my targets, I often land 4-6 kills per flight of B26 that way. I even killed 15 once and landed it. I won't ask for any other gunner than myself.
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Im just not sure I understrand some of these issues. The 'wind' issue is a non issue if you callibrate, and even more so if you fly directly with or against the wind (for those not good at judging the offset approach vector to account for side slip).
Callibrating while under attaack is...shall we say...ummm....stupid? If the enemy is near, adjust your calibrations accordingly. You can get a very good callibration in 10 seconds, and you can jump back and forth while 'setting up' the callibration to make sure you are clear.....and if its THAT heavily defended...you need to be higher:D Iva said it till Im blue in the face....those that think callibration is bad tend to be those who want success without effort....and where is the fun in that?
There are other threads complaining about dive bombing level bombers to sink CVs....and this is pure foolishness.....especially since a lone flight of b26s can take out a CV almost every time if flown well.
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Originally posted by ALF
Callibrating while under attaack is...shall we say...ummm....stupid? If the enemy is near, adjust your calibrations accordingly. You can get a very good callibration in 10 seconds, and you can jump back and forth while 'setting up' the callibration to make sure you are clear.....and if its THAT heavily defended...you need to be higher:D
You can't jump around to guns and bombsight within a few seconds of drop time....
Last buff mission I got caught just as it was time to drop... drop eggs? Fight off fighters? Just spent 20 mins lining up and calibrating... odds are a second pass will result in lower accuracy...
Tough call.
Employ a gunner.... ? you see many experienced AH'rs volunteering to gun? I see 99% newbs...
Sure you can go higher, but 2-3 hr buff missions aren't alotta fun...
Its a tough job for buffers, for very little reward...
I'd only change 2 things with bombers that did NOT in RL have dive bombing capability... not letting them drop when in a dive, and I'd arm the guns when the plane is moving at say 20mph or more like someone else suggested.
SKurj
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I am the XO of a bomber group. We do alot of low level short range NOE Lancaster runs. I agree a B-17b and Lancaster should not dive bomb. We all know that cant really do it so it shouldnt be able to it here. I have been one to do 30k alt 3+ hour bombing missions. If a bomber is below 20k he/she should have to calibrate. Making it alittle easier to calibrate yeah do it. Taking out calibrating speed yes but you would still have to mark your target. But any one here besides me do 30k alt bombing raids. If you have you know it is very difficult. So add in a very easy way to calibrate for those above 20k. And it takes alot of time to get that high and if you manage to stay alive and fight off fighters. You reach your target and spped valuable time calibrating and in the end. Half the time your bombs miss by a wide margain.
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Hey if u don't like low lvl dweebs then catch me if u can cause i'm one of them buddy. Besides i'm more accurate that way:D
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I have noticed no matter what you use. You have a better chance of hitting targets at low levels than high lvl bombing drops. Dont matter to me what alt you bom from as long as you hit your target
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Originally posted by Warchief
I am the XO of a bomber group. We do alot of low level short range NOE Lancaster runs. I agree a B-17b and Lancaster should not dive bomb. We all know that cant really do it so it shouldnt be able to it here. I have been one to do 30k alt 3+ hour bombing missions. If a bomber is below 20k he/she should have to calibrate. Making it alittle easier to calibrate yeah do it. Taking out calibrating speed yes but you would still have to mark your target. But any one here besides me do 30k alt bombing raids. If you have you know it is very difficult. So add in a very easy way to calibrate for those above 20k. And it takes alot of time to get that high and if you manage to stay alive and fight off fighters. You reach your target and spped valuable time calibrating and in the end. Half the time your bombs miss by a wide margain.
i do:D
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You do what? :confused:
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I am glad! For a sec I thought my squad was the only ones who took the time to get that high :D. But I think you can agree Skullz from that alt it is very hard to calibrate. It aint impossible but very diificult. And I aint saying make it a cake walk but alittle easier for bombers bombing from that alt to calibrate.
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My bombing runs are typically like this..
Fuel/field strats - 15k, B17, 16 250lbers (pickle leftover bombs on runway spawn in case anyone ups.. :D
Hangars - 15k Lancs, 18 500lbers
Enemy strats deep within enemy territory - B17s, 20-25k, 16 250lbers
CV killin - 14k Ju88s with a friend or two, no formation, 4 500kg bombs only.. come up from straight behind the CV, look down till i see the CV through the very bottom-left floor panel. Then I'll cut throttle and extend dive flaps, diving STRAIGHT down on a position a bit in front of CV, keep diving to 8,500 feet before pickling bombs and pulling out to hopefully 7k above the CV, and my buddies will follow in a straight line behind me, each performing the same manuever.. with luck (and no 5 inch guns manned) we'll form up to give eachother gun cover and head home. (well, that's the idea, anyway :lol)
That's how i bomb. I'll occasionally take some bostons to pork ord, but i've never really found much of a use for Ki67s.
Also.. I pickle my bombs individually, all my bombers are set for Salvo 1, Delay 0.05. If you hit the bomb realease button too quickly, it'll cancel out the command and NONE will drop. If i'm in a area with heavy enemy presence, i'll Salvo and carpet bomb so i can jump back into the guns ASAP.