Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BGBMAW on August 21, 2003, 03:36:07 PM
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Its is extremly sad to see some countries histories.
But there is a reason why we should never be sensored or forbidden to reveal them. Like the murdering of millions by japanese and germany. If we do not continue to teach younger folks of what happened. Then as itt is said..its bound to repeat itself. If you think that the raping of a country cant happen..You are wrong.
Funny that the germans just now are getting a monument to the millions of Jews they murdered/slaughtered.
Do the japanese even acknowledge? And if so ..any monuments in japan of them.
Can people post in here about horrible racial/religous acts done by a country..or is it too "sensitive"
well the game of life...
So..what does japan and germany teach of its 30's t0 40s history?
I know being a German american..we were taught extremly little of the slaughetr of Indians in America..
And same for ww1-ww2 history...not much detail..
Is this becuase it will make you want to "hate" the other nationalities?
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Sensoring History? Are we sending time-warp probes?
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There is a right way and a wrong way to broach sensitive topics. There is also a time and a place.
The problems are many. For every WEB site that says someone did something to someone else, you can find another site that says the complete opposite.
Basically, WEB sites are not the most trustworthy of sites for correct history. So, now you have a premise where you are garanteed to have problems in the discussions.
People use these types of "shock" posts for their own agenda as well. Trolls, or people looking to make others miserable, or instigate bigotry and so on.
A public bulletin board can offer a wealth of good information, but it can also offer up the most atrociously incorrect information as well.
When the discussions turn into an ugly mess and/or serve to create a potential rift in the community, they are not beneficial to HTC. They are not beneficial to the community as well.
It is not about forgetting history, it is about preserving our little corner of the world.
There could be all kinds of rationalizations and justifications tossed into this, but it is all irrelevant. If it is potentially harmful to any member of our community, then it is completely unjustifiable.
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What? I dont see any censored history.
I'm pretty sure young Germans and Japanese learn of their history and what happened. I know for a fact that teenage Germans equivalent to high school Sophomores make a trip to a concentration camp.
I know being a German american..we were taught extremly little of the slaughetr of Indians in America..
And same for ww1-ww2 history...not much detail..
Is this becuase it will make you want to "hate" the other nationalities?
"we were taught" ... by whom? Public schools? I dunno where you went, but I seem to remember a lot from my years in primary/secondary school.
And not only in primary/secondary schools, universities cover a ****load of history extensively.
History is written by the winners.
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Oct, I think he is waving his finger at me for some action I took in a thread. Could be wrong, but I don't think so.
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ah ok. Thought he meant "in general" :)
[edit] And in that case, you shouldn't rely on a community of un-qualified "scholars" to learn of historical events. Go to school :) [/edit]
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censoring, u mean? :)
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That's Right!
Never let our children forget how we reacted when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!
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Stalin can easily be compared to Hitler in his treatment of Jews. Although they weren't slaughtered, they were still imprisoned... many simply "disappeared". Then again, he killed/imprisoned/disappeared anyone he saw as a threat to himself or Russia based on unfounded accusations. Ever wondered why Russia was beaten like a red headed step child in the opening year of the war? Stalin had millions of experienced military men "dispatched".
Such is the way of dictatorships.
-SW
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Originally posted by Stringer
That's Right!
Never let our children forget how we reacted when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!
LOL!
Speaking of which, Im gonna rent "1941" again.
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>Do the japanese even acknowledge? And if
>so ..any monuments in japan of them.
>I know being a German american..we were taught
>extremly little of the slaughetr of Indians in
>America..
The world is not that ignorant. You need to give people more credit than they already have.
Though I do understand. Sometime reading all this horible history stuff of mankind can start to get to you. Just give yourself a break and go read some other subject for a while.
Japan and Germany have paid and coninue to pay for loosing wwII. Japan and Germany are not the same nations today prior to wwII. The US ensured that by staying on their turf.
Nuff said, moving on... Sheesh
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I need a new quote about the history of burning books and propoganda and the starvation, control, and eventual slaughter of inocent human lives throughout history.
Any suggestions?
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It's all about revisions....therein lies the danger.
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char,
Both the German and Japanese economies have done very well.
I don't think they are still paying for loosing the war one bit.
I think the two nations are better today then before WWII. Economically they are definately better.
It depends on what you consider better to be, and what you thought of them before WWII.
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Originally posted by type_char
I need a new quote about the history of burning books and propoganda and the starvation, control, and eventual slaughter of inocent human lives throughout history.
Any suggestions?
22 juilly 1209 at Bézier Arnaud Amaury said :
Tuez les tous, dieu reconnaîtra les siens.
meaning something like "Kill them all, god will sort his own".
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Well I've never been to Japan or Germany so I can only infer on how the people are today. BG does bring up a valid point. Perhaps a monument or two in Japan paying tribute to the carnage at Pearl Harbor and elsewhere is due as they are responible for starting the war as is Germany. Thats an issue between governments though in my opinion. As far as the people are concerned, I think they are not the same.
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Japanese fully acknowledged what went on in WWII long before Germany. Take a look at their constitution formed promptly at the end of the war, preventing what had happened from ever happening again. I think you will largely find proud peoples of the world would rather move on than hang past laundry out to dry again.
History is not censored it is recorded. As stated in other posts, it's the quality of your source. My advice, pick many sources....
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Gee I thought we where all playing a game here?
Enough of the heavy stuff man :D
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BGB, There are some atrocities performed by the Japanese in China during WW2 that are not allowed to be taught in Japan. I'm sure someone around here knows more details.
I took one-year of Indian Studies from an instructor in JC who was raised on a reservation and I don't think anything was really glossed over or purposely hidden. One of a handfull of teachers I'll always remember and two really good courses.
I doubt this has anything to do with another thread, I think Skuzzy is being paranoid. Good that Germany is erecting a monument.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
LOL!
Speaking of which, Im gonna rent "1941" again.
HA! Rent! I bought it at wallyworld for 5 bucks last year!
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"I know being a German american..we were taught extremly little of the slaughetr of Indians in America.."
No kidding...
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
I know being a German american..we were taught extremly little of the slaughetr of Indians in America..
This is something that you have to research on your own in most school systems! The story of Chief Joseph and the Nez Perce is a good place to start!
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/a_c/chiefjoseph.htm
The book is better, but you may not like what you see!!
Proceed with caution! :)
T0J0
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
LOL!
Speaking of which, Im gonna rent "1941" again.
Right actor... wrong movie. That's a classic Animal House line.
MiniD
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funny i was going to erase this and put it in the history BB..thuis iw wrong forum i guess..
I just read the Germans monument to the holocuast..which was designed by an American..kind of funny it was an american..
Skuzzy it partly was....just reading the -crimes- that were posted about the japanese in Asia,,just brougth back questions to me.. I understand it was posted on a "best plane" and not about the details of japanese attaks
but its been a long tiem since i have heard about or read what the japanese/ germans do to recoginize what they did to so many humans
i know the japanese have monuments at the"abomb" sites..but what about all the Asian stuff they did..bio-chem-holocuast stuff? in china and the other southern asian countries any memorials?
I guess i figure they "public schools" in japan/germany are teaching about as much as the US ' spublic schools are teaching
and,,udet..omg..i dont really wacth my typing..but my topic i sspeelled wrong..:(...dammit
Again..i should of posted this in History forum..
Love
BiGB
xoxo
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
LOL!
Speaking of which, Im gonna rent "1941" again.
Wrong movie, that would be an Animal House quote
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You dont have to look so far in the map for sensored history...
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Originally posted by type_char
I need a new quote about the history of burning books and propoganda and the starvation, control, and eventual slaughter of inocent human lives throughout history.
Any suggestions?
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"Where books are burned, human beings will be burned too."
Heinrich Heine, 1961.
"Burn the libraries, for their value is in this one book [the Koran.]"
-Omar I
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Just as a point of interest....
My aunt is a high school head mistress, and she quite often has Japanese (and other countries) students staying at her house for a term.
A while ago, she came home one evening to find a young Japanese student/ tenant of hers, sitting in front of a television, watching a documentary about the Japanese in Asia and the Pacific in WWII.
The poor guy was in tears, and asked her how she could possibly tolerate having Japanese students living in her home when the things he was seeing on TV were done by his countrymen.
He had NO IDEA about any of it, it was a complete shock to him, all he knew about WWII was that Japan was involved, and America had dropped two nukes on them.
He was ashamed and disturbed by what he saw, so much so that he wanted to know how she could put up with having Japanese people in her house.
To me, that says that young Japanese people didn't get taught the same things about WWII that I did.
My aunt explained to him that allthough it was indeed his countrymen that had commited these acts, he was in no way responsible for that, and to punish him, or his fellow youths, or in any way deny them something because of their history, would be a far greater crime on her part than any commited in the war by his forefathers, but that she was very pleased that the subject did concern him.
She suggested they take a trip to Canberra, to see the Australian War Museum, and apparently the young Japanese bloke walked around in a daze, saying over and over "I didn't know, I'm so sorry".
I get the distinct impression, that had he known beforehand the history of our two countries, and some of the incidents that occured between the two during WWII, that he very likely would not have come out here, for fear of being hated.
Now this is a 17 year old kid, very bright, very polite, and no matter how you look at it, Australia is a better place for having he and his peers here.
So, in some ways, perhaps it is for the better that our versions of history are differant, in other ways, perhaps not.
Blue
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Check out the study books for children in Japan...alot is covered up. History rewritten. No mention of the rape of Nantung nor that of captured Korean women that were forced to serve as "Comfort Women" Raped repeatedly by Japanesse soldiers ... still today Japan refuses to admit those atrocities.
Please expand your minds a lil bit more.
:D
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Just a note to ease the troubled minds...
BA in Asian Studies and Computer Science.
Read and Write Korean, Fluent in Korean, Japanesse, Cantonesse, and some German.
12 years in Asia. 4 years in Europe.
Not bad for a boy born in Toledo, OH. '58.
Aight, I put on my robe and wizard hat now....
:D
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Gee, you must be an expert on Agent Orange and the millions affected then.
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Originally posted by AWMac
Just a note to ease the troubled minds...
BA in Asian Studies and Computer Science.
Read and Write Korean, Fluent in Korean, Japanesse, Cantonesse, and some German.
12 years in Asia. 4 years in Europe.
Not bad for a boy born in Toledo, OH. '58.
Aight, I put on my robe and wizard hat now....
:D
Be interested in translating a WWII Japanese soldier's diary to english for me?
bluedog@kg200.com drop me a line if you are, I have the whole thing scanned onto a CD.
thanks,
Blue