Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Andy Bush on August 08, 2000, 04:00:00 PM
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That would help out the anti-HO crowd. This ROE works in other competition ladders...why not try it out here?
Until then, I like the 'live with it' flavor of some posts.
Just a question...but what do you folks think happens in RL when two adversaries spot each other? Particularly at relatively short range. Let's assume a guns only environment here.
Andy
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I put my nose under and to the side from his. Makes a hard shot. Doesnt work on the deck, cuz you will run into ground on the deck.
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Andy, in that case don't u guys just alt/F4 and go whine on the adversary BBS?
Seems to work for all of us!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Toad
I've got a fair amount of gun film that shows exactly what happens...and it isn't a clean pass!!
Andy
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Ability to manuever out of your adversaries guns proves 60% of your skill as a virtual pilot. The other 40% is manuevering your guns into a firing solution. If you are taking fire in a head on, it's your fault for not figuring out a better way to avoid his fire. If you aren't taking fire, and he's trying to pull a shot off.. well you already won. Just go vertical, he tries to follow hard, oops no energy, you loop over and kill him. Problem solved. :-)
-SW
PS: I know it's a tongue in cheek post by Andy.
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Sheesh when i saw the topic title on this thread i thought it was about anotomical plumbing and such "clean pass", hmmm i guess im just getting old when this come to mind first eh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Baddawg
I guess it just depends on where your head is...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Andy
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ok am i in a g10?
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Andy:
Not disagreeing with you here, but it is my understanding that most pilots in WWII didn't like the HO at all, except on buffs.
Modern day fighter tactics is different, as you point out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Btw; what handle do you have in Aces High?
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 08-08-2000).]
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StSanta
I'm sure you could find some folks from any era that prefer not to attempt a HO.
However, I also think that someone would have a tough time trying to document your premise. My impression is that there was not a significant aversion to the HO...in fact, I cannot think of a single reference to that effect. But that doesn't mean that one does not exist!
In my career, I can't think of anyone I flew with that felt that way. In the Fighter Weapons School, we taught the HO from a theoretical and academic basis, and then we flew a live fire mission to allow the students to practice the theory in RL (within the limts of the ROE...max of 135 degrees angle off).
I don't fly much on line...but if you ever run across 'bg'...be gentle!!
Andy
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Towd
You are in what ever you want.
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oops...
I thought he said Clean bellybutton arena...
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Andy:
Admitteldy, what I have isn't mass statistics, but rather what I've read in some biographies I've read written by WWII pilots, some known, some unknown.
With regards to real life, I bow down to your superior knowledge (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
You still flying the Eagle?
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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The internet is a bad place to have a HO.. at least in the classic definition of a HO, meaning to my mind a damn near straight on frontal attack... producing pretty crummy odds for survival in this sim.
Assuming you have some energy or alt to work with, you'd be better off using the e and alt to get to a better position...
... like about 135 degrees off; which I'd say was a front quarter attack, and a pretty safe place to be if you have the guns solution.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Originally posted by Baddawg:
Sheesh when i saw the topic title on this thread i thought it was about anotomical plumbing and such "clean pass", hmmm i guess im just getting old when this come to mind first eh (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Two words: high colonic (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I think the aversion in real life to the HO is that it could easily be deadly. Besides being directly in the line of fire, you could hit the other guy. And what is the purpose of avoiding guns if you simply collide? If you hit, almost guaranteed both pilots die.
I think that real pilots would rather nix the mutual death in hopes that they could kill the other guy and get away.
HOs don't matter in the online sims because we (obviously) don't really die - thus there isn't near the impetus to avoid them.
It takes two to HO. There is also net lag to deal with that skews a tight fight and might provoke an HO just because one pilot doesn't see the other plane the way the other pilot sees his own plane. I've also had my controls get shot out where I become just a hurtling mass of metal and virtual pilot - helpless to change trajectory.
Yeah, HOs suck. But too many forget while they rant on channel 1 that they were just as much at fault as the other guy and mistakes happen. Even as much as it was avoided in WWII, it still happened and people died.
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I've read many US pilots from the Pacific say they would take any shot on a Japanese plane, including HO.
At the WB Con, Frank Gabreski said that when the Nazis attacked bombers from the front, his P-47's would not hesitate to take an HO shot to stop them.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-09-2000).]
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I would love to see an arena with Ho's off. HOsqueak free if you will .
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Read Saburo Sakai's "Samurai", he documents many HO attacks made by himself and his pilots on P39s/40s etc.
Glop, out.
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StSanta
I don't fly the F-15...I fly the DC-9!
What I'm trying to explain is that the HO in RL is an accepted attack technique.
In WW2, numerous examples exist of situations that were specifically planned as HOs...among these is the Thatch Weave defensive tactic and the teachings of Gen. Chennault (AVG Flying Tigers).
The only restriction in the US military regarding HOs is a training ROE that prevents front quarter short range gun attacks. Since the introduction of the improved 20mm round that dramatically increased projectile range, long range gun attacks are now authorized.
Andy
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HO free that's like AW .. and it sucked .. A front quarter gun pass is a pretty important consideration in an engagement and it shouldn't be taken out of the game IHMO