Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: capt. apathy on August 22, 2003, 04:45:53 PM
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President Bush said Friday his administration has helped bring about an increase in salmon populations in the Pacific Northwest
here (http://www.msnbc.com/news/955588.asp?0cv=CB10)
exactly what did they do that could return salmon populations in 2 years?
experts believe the increased salmon runs throughout the region are mostly due to weather and tidal patterns in the Pacific Ocean, said it was ludicrous for the president to claim even partial credit.
while he is taking credit for the increased run this year he doesn't really say what his administration did that brought this miraculous and immediate improvement.
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Dont forget he wants to let Lumber $Corps$ cut old growth in the middle of forests to stop forest fires.....Cut all the trees then their will be no forest fires.
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al gore invented the internet bush invented salmon.
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Hmm, read the posted link, and couldn't find any text where Bush claimed responsibility for increased salmon runs. He mearly stated that they were higher, and that was headed in the right direction.
BLANNNNNNNNNK!!!!!!! Try again. :D
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Never a new or constructive idea born from a liberal.
What they have to offer the nation, you can now see in California.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
al gore invented the internet bush invented salmon.
Seems fair enough to me. Ross Perot perfected the info-mercial ;)
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Originally posted by Rude
Never a new or constructive idea born from a liberal.
What they have to offer the nation, you can now see in California.
:confused:
California is a great state, if one state were to be taken away, I think California would have the greatest impact on the nation's economy. They produce alot, from agriculture to technology. I am from Boston and don't think much of LA, but I must admit, California is beautiful.
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Originally posted by Rude
Never a new or constructive idea born from a liberal.
What they have to offer the nation, you can now see in California.
ahem....
TR
that is all.
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The article states:
"The good news is that the salmon runs are up,” he said to a cheering audience made up of GOP officials, farmers and businessmen, many in cowboy hats and baseball caps. “We just need to make sure we keep that momentum."
Where does he take credit for the increase in salmon runs again? Salmon runs are at an all time high. When talking about removing damns from the Columbia River because they're hurting salmon it's important to bring that up... don't you think?
MiniD
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Originally posted by midnight Target
ahem....
TR
that is all.
A completely different breed of leader than what we have today MT.
end of line
:)
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Originally posted by Mini D
Where does he take credit for the increase in salmon runs again? Salmon runs are at an all time high. When talking about removing damns from the Columbia River because they're hurting salmon it's important to bring that up... don't you think?
MiniD
Another blatant attempt to confuse the issue with relavant facts. What're we gonna do with you D?
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Originally posted by Mini D
Where does he take credit for the increase in salmon runs again?
Supporters of the president say his policies have helped to increase the number of salmon returning to spawning grounds.
He may not have said it in his speech, but his people are. Perk the Salmon!
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Originally posted by Rude
Never a new or constructive idea born from a liberal.
What they have to offer the nation, you can now see in California.
ROTFLOL! Good one! Wish I'da thought of that one. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
ROTFLOL! Good one! Wish I'da thought of that one. :)
Woo hoo yea!!!!!
Then you could both be wrong.
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His people? "Supporters" could translate to a guy wearing a "Bush saves fish" tee shirt.
I guess you can compare this to Al Gore claiming to have been instrumental in the proliferation of the internet except GWB didn't actually say anything other than salmon runs were up (didn't even say at record levels).
It'd take a pretty retarded person to give someone credit for salmon runs that occur after a salmon has been out to see for about 4 years. My guess is that a reporter found one in the crowd.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Rude
A completely different breed of leader than what we have today MT.
end of line
:)
Even more recent..
The Peace Corps - Kennedy
The Great Society - LBJ
New ideas are the bread and butter of the Liberal movement. The definition of conservative is to want things to remain unchanged..
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Originally posted by Mini D
It'd take a pretty retarded person...
Gotta give ya that one....it was a crowd of Bush supporters
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Even more recent..
The Peace Corps - Kennedy
The Great Society - LBJ
New ideas are the bread and butter of the Liberal movement. The definition of conservative is to want things to remain unchanged..
Was that the same LBJ that proliferated and prolonged the Vietnam war to line his pockets?
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The request was for new ideas from a liberal leader. Are you saying my examples don't count because of the VN war? Puuleez!
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I'm saying that man's name shouldn't be mentioned in either polite company or here.
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It's funny how he rallies behind the salmon but butchers the clean air act. Here in the east it is a big issue, we breathe all that crap. I can't believe we burn coal in the 21st century.
Liberal ideas, let's build new power plants. How about a tax break or some federal $$ to help them out? I don't wanna breathe that crap or live with the acid rain. Don't tread on me.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
It's funny how he rallies behind the salmon but butchers the clean air act. Here in the east it is a big issue, we breathe all that crap. I can't believe we burn coal in the 21st century.
Liberal ideas, let's build new power plants. How about a tax break or some federal $$ to help them out? I don't wanna breathe that crap or live with the acid rain. Don't tread on me.
Why don't you spend your own money (local taxes) for your clean air instead of ours (federal taxes). We have air pollution problems here in North Texas too. Mostly caused by the very heavy auto traffic. If we're gonna spend federal money it oughta be on mutually beneficial projects like research for hydrogen fueled autos.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Why don't you spend your own money (local taxes) for your clean air instead of ours (federal taxes). We have air pollution problems here in North Texas too. Mostly caused by the very heavy auto traffic. If we're gonna spend federal money it oughta be on mutually beneficial projects like research for hydrogen fueled autos.
Because the polution is from midwest power plants and factories.
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Then ya oughta sue and make them clean up their act. I never did understand why that region is called the midwest when it's in the eastern half of the US.
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The AG is going to do it, but it shouldn't have to come to that. We went through all this before, that is why we have the clean air act. Or at least we did. Bush doesn't want the companies to have to spend the $$ to obide by the law, so he is carving it up.:(
I thought fed $$ would be a happy medium.
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I shouldn't say "Bush doesn't want" I should say he is under pressure from the hand that feeds him.
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I don't mean to trivialize the issue. Polution is and has been a serious problem in this country for a long time and I understand little about it other than it's bad. Still, if it comes to choosing between staying warm in the winter and having a job vs no smog, I think most will choose the former. Maybe someday everyone can have both.
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Originally posted by AKIron
If we're gonna spend federal money it oughta be on mutually beneficial projects like research for hydrogen fueled autos.
...uhmm, I think we have to wait for the oil to run out. And it doesn't matter who's in charge.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Gotta give ya that one....it was a crowd of Bush supporters
Ya... and in any crowd you're bound to have one. Afterall... we have you.
MiniD
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Originally posted by AKIron
I don't mean to trivialize the issue. Polution is and has been a serious problem in this country for a long time and I understand little about it other than it's bad. Still, if it comes to choosing between staying warm in the winter and having a job vs no smog, I think most will choose the former. Maybe someday everyone can have both.
What scared me was the report about mercury levels in tuna fish, we don't feed tuna to the little ones anymore.
With nanotechnology bursting on the scene, I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. A gentleman at MIT actually assembled carbon molecules so they would rotate on their own. If this application could be used to create friction between them, you might be able to create enough heat to create steam. If this were so, you would have the benefit of a nuclear core without producing radiation.
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I don't mean to trivialize the issue. Polution is and has been a serious problem in this country for a long time and I understand little about it other than it's bad. Still, if it comes to choosing between staying warm in the winter and having a job vs no smog, I think most will choose the former. Maybe someday everyone can have both.
but it's not an either or problem. I work in the power industry, and when the clean air act came into effect the number of available jobs went way up.
the thing is that it doesn't stop the building of plants. people will not stand for turning on the switch and having no power (the oposition to building permits for new power plants in california almost completely stopped after the first few blackouts).
the work increases because the restrictions don't restrict power they restrict emisions. we have the technology to greatly reduce these imissions (electrostatic precipitators, air scrubbers, and bag-houses to name a few).
all these require men to build them and that means jobs. thats good for the economy in the areas around the plants and in the areas the workers live (most travel temporarily to the area while building a new plant or upgrading emission systems).
this is also a much more fair situation. without emission controls people who use the power save some cash on the bill while those who live in the area of the plant (and down wind from the stack) suffer. and since most power isn't made where it is used you end up with a very small group (they generally try not to put these plants where many people live) paying the most for something that benifits others who live elsewhere.
and eventually the pollution spreads out enough that all our kids can breath some.
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Originally posted by Silat
Dont forget he wants to let Lumber $Corps$ cut old growth in the middle of forests to stop forest fires.....Cut all the trees then their will be no forest fires.
I work in the wood products industry and have seen tens of thousands of jobs lost, families devestated, and communities ghosted by people with similar thinking as yours (as stated here). I see that you are also from Oregon, why are the state budget and school systems in such bad shape? The answer is that simply in the past (decades ago-pre spotted owl), the state and local school districts made income off of stumpage fees created by timber sales and harvests. A SENSEABLE and MANAGED healthy forest initiative that includes timber harvest will SAVE forests and provide for the economy and community, and yes-overall forest health and sustainability. The days of "clear cutting" are long gone.
Where is your "old growth" now pal? IT'S BURNING UP!!!
What is your house built out of? your deck? I'll be willing to bet that the amount of things you use or enjoy every day that come from timber would boggle your mind.
This is where I say don't get me started, and I mean no offence, but it is too late-I started. And yes I do take this subject personally.
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Hey Capt. Apathy... notice how the rest of your posts have nothing to do with the first one? Say something shockingly stupid then try to make a point. It just doesn't come off right.
MiniD
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actually I only had one other post after the first one, 30 or so posts later the subject of the thread had taken a turn and I responded to it.
I'm not some sort of anal bbs cop who insists that everybody elses post stay on the subject of the origanal post. the conversation evolved off the original point and I went with the conversation.
so. whats the point of your last post and what does it have to do with bush and salmon? :rolleyes:
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Yep! you're right my reply was not in line with the subject of the post. I was replying to a reply that was a "hot button" issue with me personally.
My Appologies :o ;) :D
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Sorry captain... not insisting you post on the subject... just pointing out you had to abandon it because it was pathetically stupid. A totally inaccurate observation followed up by a sermon on the environment as some sort of cover.
Well.. if it makes you feel better... Carry on. Oh... you might want to think about the sermon on the environment the next time you flush your toilet.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mike_2851
I work in the wood products industry and have seen tens of thousands of jobs lost, families devestated, and communities ghosted by people with similar thinking as yours (as stated here). I see that you are also from Oregon, why are the state budget and school systems in such bad shape? The answer is that simply in the past (decades ago-pre spotted owl), the state and local school districts made income off of stumpage fees created by timber sales and harvests. A SENSEABLE and MANAGED healthy forest initiative that includes timber harvest will SAVE forests and provide for the economy and community, and yes-overall forest health and sustainability. The days of "clear cutting" are long gone.
Where is your "old growth" now pal? IT'S BURNING UP!!!
Actually, forests burning down is part of the cycle, from the ashes comes a new fertile forest.
Chop down a tree, plant a tree. Chop all you want, just plant more. It isn't about saving trees, it's about replacing them.
The problem in the past was that, like mining companies, they would take what they wanted and leave the land a mess. If the logging industry is to survive, they must replenish what they chop down, or the wells will run dry. The logging industry must survive, or we will be paying $25 for a 2x4. As long as "SENSEABLE and MANAGED" means replacing, i'm all for it. Don't blame people's way of thinking, it was the "clear cutting" by the industry that got us into the situation in the first place. England, at one time, had beautiful oak forests.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Still, if it comes to choosing between staying warm in the winter and having a job vs no smog, I think most will choose the former. Maybe someday everyone can have both.
Well luckily, not only does the oil we burn to keep us warm, it also changes the climate.
With the miracle of global warming we soon won't have to worry about winter at all, just feeding our selves and surving one climatalogical desaster to the next. Whoo hoo!
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My my, look at all the angst.
It doesn't look like Bush was directly taking credit for the salmon increase, but he was insinuating that his policies were partialy responsible. Why mention it otherwise? Especially in the context of "We're going in the right direction"?
Of course you can never expect a Conservative to stand by while a Liberal misrepresents something. Too bad Conservatives are so hypicritical in this regard.
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Never a new or constructive idea born from a liberal.
Like electoral representation for women, free health care at the point of receipt or racial equality?
Maybe you're right.
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Slavery was ended by a republican
Jeannette Rankin, first woman elected to the house of reps who led the final push to ratify 19th? Republican.
That other thing is some English experiment gone horribly wrong, you can keep it.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Was that the same LBJ that proliferated and prolonged the Vietnam war to line his pockets?
Excellent point! It's not the liberals or conservatives that muck things up, it's presidents from Texas!!
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Yes, it's gone horribly wrong. Ever used it?
Probably a little too much to expect anything other than a US-centric response, but slavery, women and voting have existed outside the US for rather a long time.
"Republican = conservative, liberal = democrat" simpleton politics doesn't hold much sway outside the US either.
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Yes, how provincial of me to take a thread based on a US president's statement about fish in the US to be about the US.
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Like I said "Probably a little too much to expect anything other than a US-centric response..."
Still, have you ever used the NHS?
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Are you kidding? Even with private insurance, if I need to see a specialist I'll pay cash over jumping through the referral hoops. (and it's actually quite cheap)
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Originally posted by Karnak
It doesn't look like Bush was directly taking credit for the salmon increase, but he was insinuating that his policies were partialy responsible. Why mention it otherwise? Especially in the context of "We're going in the right direction"?
Why mention it otherwise? Read up on the upper Columbia River some day. There are a series of 7 dams that produce 3% of the power in the Nothwest. There is a huge cry to remove these dams because of the "harm they are doing to salmon runs".
I guess if you knew nothing about the politics of the region. And you knew nothing about the crowd the president was speaking too. And you knew nothing about the cause and effect that is being reffered to... you could read pretty much anything into that that you wanted. And... you are. I guess it doesn't really matter that the assessment is wrong. It's what you want it to mean that really matters.
MiniD
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Still, have you ever used the NHS?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Like electoral representation for women, free health care at the point of receipt or racial equality?
Maybe you're right.
Let me re-phrase....within the past 3 years:)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Woo hoo yea!!!!!
Then you could both be wrong.
California is the republicans fault? Now which party runs that state MT?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Even more recent..
The Peace Corps - Kennedy
The Great Society - LBJ
New ideas are the bread and butter of the Liberal movement. The definition of conservative is to want things to remain unchanged..
The great society? Man, where did you get all of these cans of worms?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Because the polution is from midwest power plants and factories.
That's untrue and silly:)
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Have you ever voted as a woman, Dowding?
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I'm going to blame women for Hillary being president in 08...just wanted to be the first to post about that.
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That other thing is some English experiment gone horribly wrong, you can keep it.
Have... you... ever... actually... used... it?
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Like electoral representation for women
Have...you...ever...voted...a s...or...run...for...office.. .as...a...woman?
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Originally posted by Rude
The great society? Man, where did you get all of these cans of worms?
You're right. That bait is worthy of a thread all its own. :)
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Originally posted by Rude
That's untrue and silly:)
I wish it were.
http://www.cnn.com/EARTH/9709/22/interstate.pollution.ap/
"Two plants south of Moundsville and a third 25 miles upriver belong to the Ohio-based American Electric Power Co. Together, last year, they released 91,000 tons of a smog-causing chemical, more than the emissions from power plants in all of New England and New Jersey combined."
"Industries in the Northeast already have spent billions of dollars to reduce pollution from cars, factories and power plants. The Northeast states have agreed to cut nitrogen oxide levels by as much as 75 percent from power plants by 1999, compared to 1990 levels, and New Jersey recently increased that commitment to 95 percent."
"Last year nitrogen oxide emissions from New York power plants totaled 73,600 tons, and from New Jersey, 27,500 tons. By comparison Ohio's power plants, mainly coal, accounted for almost 560,700 tons, according to EPA figures"