Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: fritz6786 on August 25, 2003, 12:20:35 PM
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i think there should be changes to the way friendly hits are registered, yes, keep the way dumb newbies get killed for shooting sumone on their own team but sumtimes while your chasing an enemy, some hotshot wannabe will fly right in front of your plane while your shootin and intercept your shots with his plane and you get shot down as a result. this is not fair along with it pissing everyone off. maybee you should make it that if you shoot someone they get half the damage to themselves this way if the situatation i described above happens, you have time to stop firing and not have to respawn.
i d k, this just seems to happen to me alot and its not fair.:mad:
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There were many discussions about this precise matter.
Frankly, from what I observed in those discussions, there were some good points made by all sides, but none of them were enough to present a real alternative to the kill-shooter system we have.
There can be such mixed variables concerning the dangers of kill stealing and kill-shooters, that it's really hard to side with one argument - ie. a Bf109 corners an enemy Spitfire down at deck, and during maneuvering, a friendly Zero decides to join the fight.
That can be considered both:
a) The frdly Zero is a hotshot wannabe jumping into your line of fire
b) You weren't good enough to finish him off as early as possible - if you can't land the final blow, someone else gladly will
It depends on what point of view you stand at. If I was the Bf109, I would feel a) towards the frdly Zero.. but if I am the frdly Zero, then I would feel b) towards the frdly Bf109.
Also, it can be said that both the Bf109 and the Zero are at a fault in that they failed to acknowledge their surroundings, and failed to communicate. Accidents like that happen in real life, too.
Thus, in this particular issue, it is hard to set a real 'standard' on who is right. Currently, the KS promotes the harsh consequences of and forces the players to communicate, acknowledge their surroundings, and consciously try to avoid KS situation voluntarily, all the time.
In my situation for example, if I were in a Bf109, and I corner a Spitfire down low, it is obvious that it will take some time for me to land the death blow. I, of course, will try to do best as I can, but were I to see many frdly Spits otw to me, and see that they have an intent to engage, then I'll just let off a sigh and pull out of the way. Well, better luck next time.
Or, were I in a Bf109G-10 with 30mms, chasing a La-7, and a friendly P-51D is also chasing him close to me, I would have to look back and see if the frdly P-51D can get a shot in - I have to go within 200 yards or so to really land a hit with 30mms, but the frdly Mustang with .50s can try a shot at least 300 yards further than me. So, what I do is try to get to the La-7 close as possible, but in a slightly offset flight path so I give some room for the guy behind me to try a relatively safe shot.
Yes, I don't get many kills this way, but I try to as much as I can to avoid unpleasant happenings by checking what is going around me. I rarely ever get, or cause a KS this way. Maybe if more people can find the truth in this cooperative alternative through Kill Shooter, then they may also find that KS is a reasonable solution.
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BUZZZZ, wrong Kweassa.. you pull right in front of the pony so he doesnt dar try to get a shot on your kill.. ;)
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.. or that works, too. :D
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Originally posted by Rutilant
BUZZZZ, wrong Kweassa.. you pull right in front of the pony so he doesnt dar try to get a shot on your kill.. ;)
took the text right outta my hands...
unfortunately in the MA thats what you have to do. if i see some spit dweeb behind me shooting at a enemy d500 in front of me (meaning the spit is at least d700) i will drift up into his line of fire if possible. he knows im there and is trying to shoot "around" me to snatch a kill.
alot may consider that rude or whatever.... i dont care its my $14.95
also in your situation above. i disagree a bit about the zeke coming in. if i was a 109 alone on the deck with a sipt (NOWHERE near a furball because that would be extreemly stupid) i wouldnt have the capability to be "looking around" for a friendly coming into the fight.
also IMHO it would be the zeke pilots responsibility to announce he's joining the fight. you KNOW that 90% of the time that doesnt happen. but that why should I be punished for some greedy arse that doesnt know how to work VOX?
oh well just a dumb idea by yours truly
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Killshooter punishes the shooter, but not the careless gang dweeb who fly through your fire. I say the shooter looses all his ammo, same for the shootee. Both are affected, but not dead.
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Good idea GScholz!
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So I see someone I hate, and I will sneak behind him..
"Have at thee, moron!" With a gritting burst, the guy I hate has lost the capability to fight.
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Next fight, the dork decides to get his revenge.. as I am aiming, he comes behind me and bratatata-! Damn, lost ammo..
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I don't see that happening in AH, anytime soon.
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Reduce friendly fire effects to half that of normal. The new guy that thinks its a good idea to get on your 6 and try to shoot you down still goes down. The snapshot you get on your ten good buddies competing to get the shot on the poor lone 190 has much less effect on you, giving you time to pull off the trigger.
There's probably forty good reasons why this wouldn't work, but I'm tired and it sounds good right now.
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Bring Persona Non Grata to AH! After a 24 hour penalty of being able to fly without any ammo would cure those triggy happy peons.
ack-ack
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ermmm....how's about just payin closer attention? Folks has stole kills from me b4, also, but I don't want HTC to change the current KS feature because of my lack of SA.
Slim03
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I have to agree with Slimm, just pay attention. I can't remember the last time I was KS. In Kweassa ex. If I was the zero I would ask if the 109 wanted help. I know its not a big thing in the MA, but it is common courtesy. I hate people jumping in on my 1 vs 1 ...they are so very rare :) .... I won't jump in on one unless invited.
In a furball, your taking your chances. I guess thats part of the thrill.... can I get in and out WITH-OUT getting shot up??? There are just that many more cons to keep an eye on !!
Leave the KS alone... as if we have any say over the matter! LOL!!:p
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Hmm.. I think 'halving damage' has some potential.
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Friendly fire would have reduced lethality to both the one getting shot at, and the one receiving KS... this sounds like possible.
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Turn on friendly collisions above 100ft agl, and turn off killshooter.:)
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kill shooter off and apply massive perk loss for hits on freindlies....
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Quite simply to return AH to a sim and lower it's "game" status, killshooter should be abolished completely.
Since most of these are because of poor SA, the person zipping in front of you should take the damage. As I've pointed out before, someone coming into a battle from below and behind is at fault. The friendly pilot can't see someone coming from that location. So, if a friendly shoots you, you die with no penalty to the shooter. The only exception to this should be in totally friendly situations. Such as in an area where no enemy are present. Even then the killshooter is questionable for the sake of realism.
If someone clips your wing (friendly or enemy) you both die if the damage is severe enough. Mid-air collisions should affect both planes no matter what the situation. In other words a big BOOM for both pilots.
Runway collisions should also be enabled. There is no way on earth 25 planes could ever take off and land all at once, using the same runway on an airfield. They would have to be spread out over time. This business of a plane passing through another plane during takeoff is a bunch of non-realistic balony. Some sort of tower clearance for takeoff needs to be implemented, or the pilot needs to decide it's clear for takeoff. If he's wrong, he'll learn quickly that ground crashes will kill both him and the one he hits.
Anti aircraft guns should affect both friendly and enemy planes. AA was not and is not selective about it's targets. If there are friendly planes in the air while it's firing, the odds of a friendly being hit are the same as hitting an enemy plane.
Anyway, if all of these were introduced people would quickly learn the consequences of poor flight habits.
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And how to grief NHawk...
Imagine if you will....
Player A spawns B17 form... parks in middle of runway
Player B is po'd at you for getting that last kill he wanted.. he gives you a little slap and removes a few control surfaces...
SKurj
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I liked the AW model that made you PNG (persona non grata) if you killed 2 or maybe it was 3 friendly targets you had to switch countries to fly for the next 24 hours. I once bombed a factory that i did not notice had become ours and was PNG for 24 hours. I never saw anyone become PNG because of people jumping in their line of fire. It might have happend, but I know I would not like to be the person who caused it. Pinging a friendly almost always evoked an apology. Besides, you could shoot at least 1 friendly down a day that jumped in your line of fire, OOPS sorry,
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I very rarely have any problems with KS. Not sure why but I usually scan around pretty well. I also will ask on range chan if a friendly needs help with an enemy before jumping into a fight if the fights pretty even. This serves 2 purposes, it lets others know I am there and its just common courtesy.
Seems to work for me.
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I dont have any problems with KS.! because I know whats around me.All you have to go is pay attention.Turning off KS wont help.If they take the damage from your guns that leads to all kinds of idiots with a grudge causing problems.Accidents happen.If people try to horn in on a kill fly somewhere else because Ive seen plenty of people shooting away at a plane with no wing spinning to earth.Collsions?Thats a real bad idea.Get some bone head with an attitude parking on a base runway thats under attack and he can stop a whole field from upping to help.The only real cure I see is the AW train of thought.2 friendly kills in 24 hours and your PNG.Its really the only fair way to do it.Situational awareness people.Ive heard alot complaiign about KS affecting them.I just dont have a problem shooting friendlys.Cept the occational Squadie that I nuke with rockets
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I think the shooter should lose his ammo. This is penalty enough. You have to rtb to rearm but at least you don't get a death. I think instant death and persona non-grata are both overkill. My $0.02
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Originally posted by DrDea
Collsions?Thats a real bad idea.Get some bone head with an attitude parking on a base runway thats under attack and he can stop a whole field from upping to help.
Actually since both the person sitting on the runway and the person that hit him would die, this wouldn't affect things as much as you think. Plus you could always go around him.
Realism is the object of my post. To much has already been sacrificed for "game play" and not enough realism is included.
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I dont know.I remember trying Fighter ace way back when and the one thing that made me say no way in hell was the friendly colllisions.It was impossible.People slamming into each other.Try a dead stick landing when people are taking off.It would really just piss off to many players IMHO.
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Realism hurts. If you can't collide, or an accidental hit on a friendly hurts you and not the one you hit then AH will continue to be a game and not a sim.
Which will result in the loss of not only my money, but most of the true sim enthusiasts waiting silently to see what AH2 is all about.
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There really is a simple solution to this matter. Lead fighter on an enemy has authority. Joining fighter MUST communnicate covering 6 or if lead cannot make the kill then turn it over to other fighters. Secondary fighters who intercept without communication should get shot down if they fly in the path of the lead fighters bullets. REAL LIFE!!! This will force newbies and veterans alike to start communicating with each other, which is a large problem I see right now amongst players. Don't have a mic or sound card, DONT PLAY UNTIL YOU HAVE ONE!!!!!! Fly C-47 for a month..
Just my opinion.
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How do you see squad or unit structure shaping out in AHII? For example, currently there is a 32 person limit for squad members in one arena. Is there a plan on changing that?[/color] - SimHQ
There will be a lot of things that are either different or won’t carry over from Classic to ToD. For example, killshooter (reflective damage for friendly fire) will remain in Classic but won’t be in ToD. Instead, there will be a court martial system. - Pyro
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NHawk...
these "true sim enthusiasts" are NOT patiently waiting for AH2... If they are they gonna be sorely dissappointed. They should be waiting for TOD.
AH2 likely for the next year, is going to be real close to what you see now... Once TOD arrives the realism selective will have something to complain about +)
SKurj
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Killshooter is the only effective implementation for friendly fire in a game in which the player base is not tightly controlled. (That is, that you cant ban offenders regularly)
Perk penealties are meaningless, since perks arent of much use anyways, and what hapens when you hit 0? All of the other various artifical systems are just silly when compared to the elegant simplicity of killshooter.
That said, the current implementation of killshooter is broken. It's implemented such that all rounds which hit an enemy plane will hit your plane's tail(The weakest part of every plane) The damage should be mapped to an appropriate part of your aircraft, depending on where you hit the friendly, or randomly if no similar part can be found(i.e. shooting a friendly GV).
Also, killshooter for rockets and bombs that happened to hit near a friendly plane who was strafing(And which often nothing can be done to avoid, other than to not bother bringing ord in the first place) should simply be disabled.