Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: ergRTC on August 25, 2003, 08:55:33 PM
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I have not been playing much but I do have a question. Why not toss the heavy bombers in this scenario? We all wrote quite a bit about this last time, and I thought a little consensus was reached, that being the bombers were not hugely unbalancing but they did not need to be there. Also your mention of "moving the line" leads me to believe these bombers were having little 'ground' effect anyway. Could you tell me why you did include them?
I dont really care if they stay or not (its only a week) but just curious about your logic for putting them in. Particularly since medium japanese and allied bombers were so useless at this point in the war.
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Is there a Jap fleet that spawns near Allied HQ?
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ergRTC how is it the bomber are bothering you?
I mean why bother with umm at all? If I see a boston and I am in an a6m2 and just let it go. Its not like you have to chase it or its not like its going to do anything important.
Same with the ki-67. Unlees its otd doing a torp run fek it. It bomb load is almost useless.
I would not have umm in if what my set up. But I cant see them as a problem. They onlu bug you if bother bugging them.
What am I missing?
I am serious btw not just bustin ur chops.
fyi for just the peggy whiners
(http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/o/wotans/Clipboard02.jpg)
as you can sse the boston is much faster below 15k and carries a heavier load and on top of that has forward firing 303s. Flown as a single attck aircraft its a match for anything japanese.
But the allies dont whine :p
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I think I explained myself prety good the last dozen or so times I have or the CT staff has used the Peggy/Boston combo in a Pac set up, if you nead it reexplained I can dig it up and repost it.
Slash the Japanese Carier always respawns near the Allied HQ, it is a long standing map bug, most of thime I move it away but on ocashion I miss it.
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Same with the ki-67. Unlees its otd doing a torp run fek it. It bomb load is almost useless. A formation of Ki-67's sank 2 cruisers in one pass tonight while we were trying to take A10. Not exactly what I would call "useless"
Thanks Brady. FYI, milk runners are making good use of its position.
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if some one was in 5 ich he wouldnt have made it.
To drop a torp you need to be under 200mph. At the speed and with 50 cals they are an easy kill. The question why did ya just watch him sink the cruisers? Just because that ki67 driver got lucky doesnt mean that every time a peggy ups cruisers or ships die.
But feel free to whine about it.
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To drop a torp you need to be under 200mph. At the speed and with 50 cals they are an easy kill. The question why did ya just watch him sink the cruisers? He dropped bombs not torpedoes. And since you are so concerned I got 10 of his buddies before that. And it wasnt a whine just making a point. But thats pointless with you.
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hurry up Friday!
the problem I saw last night with the jap bombers was 80% of the japs were flying them and not ftrs
thanks for moving the bases closer together, now just get rid of the uber bmber rides and this would be a kick arse setup - even though the 109 is missin :)
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Some one give him a 109, sheesh :D
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ki-67 + p-40 = 109... almost :)
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Very worthless reply brady. Thank you.
They dont bother me, but the advantage I think we discussed about tossing them last time was the increased use of kates, vals and sbds. That is why I want to know what you believe they add to the setup if base capture is not it.
As for the allied whine crap, read my post and my posts from the last time we discussed this. I dont want the boston in their either.
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Slash I will check the HQ settings and make shure it cant be porked to effect allied radar.
They creat a balance that would not exist by the sole use of Kat's/Vals vs SBD's/TBM's, since the later are in no way balanced.
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thank you.
I would just toss the tbm too then, but i guess they were an important part of this battle.
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For the life of me I can't figure out why these two bombers continue to be in this setup. Why not give the axis JU88's and give the allies Lancs. NO ONE CARES if the bombloads aren't even. What the players care about are having bombers that can be caught be fiters and engaged.
And, if any bomber is being abused in this setup, its not the Boston, its the Ki67. When I was on last nite, the skies were full of em and they were porking our fuel which went down to 25% for a while. There is nothing you can do to stop it accept hope the guy bombing can't hit anythin.
I have not seen 1 post on this board supporting their inclusion. The closest you get is, I wouldn't put em in but I'm not complaining.
Well, A lot of people are complaining and justifiably so. There were more axis in bombers than fiters and it screws the whole situation. Please take them out and just see how it goes.
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brady would never make it in customer service :)
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Ya the customer so darn neady it just get's to be so anoying:)
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What color did you want? Black right? Cause black is my favorite color. Why would anybody want a car that wasnt black? Dont be talkn to me about anything but black cause you are talking nonsense.....
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Bradys ain't changing the setup, 'cause bradys likes the setup this way. His setup. End of story. Despite a number of CT regulars suggesting that it might be just dandy without the bombers. So how about we just deal with it for another week?
Batz, you asked why we wouldn't just ignore the Bostons.
<"Its not like you have to chase it or its not like its going to do anything important.">
Interesting question, given your comment following the speed chart.
Like you, I usually try to ignore them, since I know I can't catch them unless they want me to. But ignoring them has two drawbacks:
1) Because they're available, a fair number of folks like to fly them as fighters. They can be a handful. Though certainly not invincible, they through a whole new dynamic into the a6m/f4f dogfight.
2) Because they're available, a fair number of folks like to pork bases with them. They kill fuel, ord and hangars. If ignored, you might find yourself with no useable base near the fight.
I've seen quite a bit of both this week.
Anyway. We're all just wasting breath/bandwidth.
Splash1
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some folks like bombers. Some folks may only be flying in the ct and in this setup to fly bombers.
Without the ki-67 the only bombers the axis have are unarmed. the ju-88 carries 6000lbs x 3. So dont act like folks wont be whining the first time a ju88 sinks your entire fleet.
If ya get rid of the boston the the allies still have the out of place sbd and tbm.
The axis get unarmed bombers.
sounds like a good deal dont it :p
how about get rid of all the bombers except the val and kate.
But I bet the allies come back with "we need an sbd" blah blah blah. Its a never ending cycle. If the boston or ki-67s bug ya leave umm alone.
Its a helluva alot easier killling ki-67s with 50 cals then bostons with type 99 mk1s.
YMMV
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How about adding the Ki-61, A6M5 and birdcage F4U-1 and stop with the silliness already? We dont have the planeset to do 1942 with the Ki-67 and BostonIII but we do for a late 1943 setup.
I beleive this has been asked for before, and its a much more balanced setup for fighter vs bomber.
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Except that the F4U-1 vs the A6m5 and Tony is Not a balanced set up.:)
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Yep. The A6M5 and Tony would have a clear advantage. But that don't scare us none. Bring it on. ;)
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How about adding the Ki-61, A6M5 and birdcage F4U-1 and stop with the silliness already? We dont have the planeset to do 1942 with the Ki-67 and BostonIII but we do for a late 1943 setup.
I beleive this has been asked for before, and its a much more balanced setup for fighter vs bomber.
If you are going to do all that just run Okinawa again. Its a better map for the ct anyway.
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Okinawa has the F4U-1D, P-47D-30 and the N1K2.
No CT setup has been 100 percent fair since it began, give it a rest guys. If you doubt that, then tell me what one was, I will be eagerly awaiting the info...
For a group that is supposed to be so concerned for balanced play the Ki-67 and BostonIII in this setup is curious to say the least. Its ok to chase a BostonIII with your A6M2 untill it runs out of gas and thats ok, but god, we cant have a Ki-61 vs a F4U-1, that wont work. Righto.
In any event, the idea of the CT was to give some "WW2" and some "VARIETY", which we are no longer getting. We get the same F4F vs A6M2 setup, and if we dont like it, then to heck with us.
"Feedback" is just a joke now, there is none. I remember when that wasn't true. As for the "fair" thing, you guys are choking off innovation and variety by taking it well past where it was supposed to be, and I beleive the CT has lost its way. Rather than listening to our input you just cirlce the wagons and get increasingly defensive.
Do both these, one week after the next:
Channel Spring 1942:
RAF:
Spitfire V
Hurricane II
Boston III
Lancaster III
LW:
Fw 190A-5
Bf 109F-4
Ju 88A-4
Bf 110C-4
Ju 87 Stuka
Week after that:
End at Rabaul 1943:
USN/USMC/USAAC/ANZAC
F4U-1
P-40E
F4F-4
BostonIII
SBD
TBM
IJN/IJAAF
A6M5
Ki-61
A6M2
Val
Kate
Ki-67
I guarantee the world wont end. Lets see something else for a change. My squad will gladly fly both setups as Allied, and wont complain a word. Let the LW have its "Fw190" fun, and then let us have our "F4U" fun.
When did the CT get on this "100 percent fair" thing anyways? throw it out, its a failure, and embark on a "swinging pendelum" philosophy, were its OK to have one side advantaged.
Regards.
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One thing we are runing into is a totaly stale plane set, despite that we have still cranked out new set up's for the CT several times this year, by mixing it up.
Any set up with a F4U in it vs anything other than a George is not balanced, given the present Japanese planes, the preformance differance is simply to huge, now it should be mentioned that this is my openion and may not be shared by all the CT staff.
We have done those types of set up's in the past and I am shure we will in the future at some point, wheather I think it's a good idea or not:)
Balanced set up's is somthing we always strive for in the CT and we will I am shure continue that trend, creating set up's whear one side has to many advantages has proven a bad idea in the past and has been exemplified by lower atandance during those set up's, somthing we saw a lot of during the early days in the CT espichaly when bad unbalanced PAC set up's were made.
I think the rule of thumb is "Never sacrifice Gameplay for Historical accuracery".
The CM's can do that stuff in their sandbox if they want.:)
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LOL ....
That's it. I finally had to put that so-often ironically funny quote in my sig. :D
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The CM's can do that stuff in their sandbox if they want. This sandbox is full of *****.
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I thought I smelled something. Should have realized sooner, before I crawled in and tried to play with them.
I am all for warlocs setups. Particularly that lw setup with the spit v. Nice and tight. NOrmally those lw setups end up with fifty Golly-geen planes of every make and model.
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umm spit 5 vrs 190a5 and guess what the whines will be. I'll spare ya but go ahead and search this forum for the old tunisia setups.
The allied folk couldnt agree to that then why would they now?
And what would ya need lanc III in 1942 for? Not that it matters most folks fly fun planes and i doudt the lanc would get much use. But aint it strange how you beat up on the peggy but offer something that deffinately has a greater potential to "unbalance" the fun as the lanc? But thats an allied plane isnt it.
Your pac setup has been run before. But if you look at it 3 pre 1940 planes for the axis and a 40-50mph speed advantage over the other 2. Sounds like fun....
But brady aint the only cm maybe the other guys will buy it.
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Originally posted by brady
Any set up with a F4U in it vs anything other than a George is not balanced, given the present Japanese planes, the preformance differance is simply to huge, now it should be mentioned that this is my openion and may not be shared by all the CT staff.
I know you think this is so, Brady, but it just doesn't fit with my experience. Seems to me that the Corsairs never do particularly well in any of these setups (well, OK, if they're just flying against A6M2s I suppose they do fine). As a Frequent Flyer for the Emperor, I worry a lot more about Hellcats, even P40Es, than I do about Corsairs. So if people want them, I say, let them have them.
- oldman
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No Corsairs!!
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hmmm.... lanc versus 190a5. Somebody afraid of that soft little tummy? Lanc was great for night bombing, but in daylight it under gunned and vulnerable. unlike certain other bombers we know.
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by brady
Except that the F4U-1 vs the A6m5 and Tony is Not a balanced set up.
Well that's you're opinion, but that does not make it a fact.
If you want a balanced setup, enable 1 plane, the same plane for each side and limit the side numbers cause that is the only way you will ever get a truly balanced setup. But wait, balance is what I thought that the dueling arena was for.
Don't be so quick to write off the 61. In the right hands it is a formidable foe for the Hog. Fly it smart, pick your fights and live. The same can be said for the F4U. Fly either without proper tactics and some smarts and you will get nailed.
Good luck with you're F4U paranoia.
Regards
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The performance of the N1k is not much better than the Ki61 and the top speed for both is practically the same. So why is it ok for a N1K vs. F4U-1 and not Ki61 vs. F4U-1?
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The George is a bit faster than the Tony and it climbs much better under around 8K, the Tony we have in AH is the worst climbing of all of the Tony's, so while the F4U-1 enjoys a huge spead advantage over both planes at least the George can climb better down low and as such is much more competative than the Tony, the George also has better firepower than the Tony, which offset's to a degree the F4U's firepower advantage over the Tony.
http://www.jannousiainen.net/online_sims/jg_4/index.htm
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while the F4U-1 enjoys a huge spead advantage
You kidding me right?
Sure the F4U is faster but you have to keep it fast which means no furballing or you get caught with ur pants down.
The George retains E very well and aquires it with ease while the F4U is a bloody sitting duck unless its diving in for the kill, or diving out for home! Even while diving out for home, you better had already started out diving with speed unlike the P-40 vs A6M2.
P-40 is a piece of SHI^ vs the A6M2 if both are close with speed and energy. If the A6M2 is at co-alt or higher, you had better be a damn good pilot or your squad mate will be packing your "going home box"!
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Originally posted by LtMagee
You kidding me right?
The George retains E very well and aquires it with ease . . .
I don't find the George to accelerate as well as any US plane except the Jug.
Anyone else? It seems a tad sluggish at first. It handles better at low speeds than does the Corsair, but then, the Corsair is really the most picked on in terms of modeling, just ask all the devotees. F4UDOA can document for you just how much the F4U is screwed in every single aspect of game pay including how much your salary should increase and your noodle lengthen each time you fly one.
Ask the 109 freaks about the 109s, they got screwed too.
Oh, and ask the 190 freaks about their favorite ride: yep, screwed.
And the Spit jockeys? Really screwed, Yak afficianados as well, as were the Zeke freaks, the P-38 junkies, the B-17 isn't tough enough . . .
Yadda yadda yadda.
Sakai
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Originally posted by Oldman731
I know you think this is so, Brady, but it just doesn't fit with my experience. Seems to me that the Corsairs never do particularly well in any of these setups (well, OK, if they're just flying against A6M2s I suppose they do fine). As a Frequent Flyer for the Emperor, I worry a lot more about Hellcats, even P40Es, than I do about Corsairs. So if people want them, I say, let them have them.
- oldman
I'd do a Ki-61/A6M5 vs. The F4 setup. There's plenty of dolts who try and turn Big Blue to shoot down.
Sakai
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The whole myth of the invincible F4U-1 has been started, and fed, by a handfull of people in the CT, and then they seek to convince newbies who dont know better that its true, despite the real evidence thats its complete bunk (stats evidence, film, testimony from players). The fact thats it the "we love the axis" setup folks who refuse to include them colors the entire thing in favoratism as well.
My mother could down a F4U-1 in a Ki-61 in the CT, why cant you?
Another thing, that completely ridiculous bomber comparison? how far you going to take that eh? ETO 1944, I suppose we wont see any B-17s? because they have such a larger capacity than the Ju88, right?...using the same logic, right? all has to be "balanced"? In a pigs eye, and you know it.
Hang on, there is a crop circle on the local news....in the shape of a Corsair!!!
I HAVE TO GO!!! ITS A MESSAGE!!!
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Originally posted by Squire
The whole myth of the invincible F4U-1 has been started, and fed, by a handfull of people in the CT,
Hang on, there is a crop circle on the local news....in the shape of a Corsair!!!
I HAVE TO GO!!! ITS A MESSAGE!!!
Heh, beauty. But you know, that crop circle is overmodeled as hell if it is in fact an F4U. Everyone know the real F4U crop circles were only made in wheat fields, not corn fields.
;-)
Let's have a "Jarheads Delight" setup with Corsairs, B-26S, A-20s, B-17s, TBMs and SBDs versus the Jap planeset.
Make an arena with many small Islands and let's do an Island hopping campaign. Enable LVTs for amphibian attacks, give the Allies the panzers for Shermans and the Japs the M-8 for their armor.
I'd fly either side in that one.
Sakai
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though these treads start out as whines, they are good info as I don't know much about each plane but pushing the throttle forward speeds them up and pulling it back slows them down ...
very educational, now if I can just remember it all :)
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Hang on, there is a crop circle on the local news....in the shape of a Corsair!!! hehehehe:D
I don't find the George to accelerate as well as any US plane except the Jug. I think it does but I have no factual proof. All depends on the situation too.
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I think the hurri 1, 109e, spit 1, p40b and e, and f4f are all perfectly modeled. Seriously. I think this shows improvement. OR maybe I have never flown these planes in real life, they tend to do what they are supposed to do. For that matter f4u all models do what they were supposed to do. Oh yeah the zekes seem pretty nicely modeled as well.
but thats just me.
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Originally posted by ergRTC
I think the hurri 1, 109e, spit 1, p40b and e, and f4f are all perfectly modeled. Seriously. I think this shows improvement. OR maybe I have never flown these planes in real life, they tend to do what they are supposed to do. For that matter f4u all models do what they were supposed to do. Oh yeah the zekes seem pretty nicely modeled as well.
but thats just me.
I'm with you. They left my 4 20 mms off the Kate, and it lacks plate armor, but we can work on that.
Sakai