Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ike 2K# on August 25, 2003, 11:15:49 PM
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How many years did it take you to learn and apply the "art" of A.C.M.?
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The what of who?
SOB
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You know! The thing where the wildly agressive savages, or "furballers" use planes to shoot eachother down..
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its all a matter a perspective
;) about 2 years of 3-6 hours a day before I was "comfortable".
It seems as if any time off, takes about 1/3 to regain original status. So take a week off & need about 2 days to regain lost feel. For me anyway.
A_Clown
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Who is this A.C.M. guy?
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Ive tried for many years but whenever i master one thing there is always another one to try or I find that i dont really master the once i thought i did. Doubt if anyone here has really learned all aspects of A.C.M.
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I'm still working on it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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If you show the proper respect leviathn I will let you hang around with me and teach you a couple of the simpler moves till you can go out on your own.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Good topic. Me? I'm doing great. I figured out how to get my wheels up just last week.
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Going on about 10 years now. It took me about a year as a solo pilot in SVGA AW to get a consistant, positive K/D. I think that's why the steamroller, war-winning style of "play" is so popular. Your ego can take quite a beating, night after night, until you start making fewer mistakes.
Learning the art of SA is probably more important than ACM, IMO. At least it was for me.
Charon
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I've flown these sims since 1989-90.....If motivated, I could get a boatload of kills and land them with ease.....inspite of this ability, I pocessed no ACM skills other than some yoyo's.
I've just started learning applied acm in hostile situations...fighting from a disadvantage. I would think that I have years ahead of me as to aquiring real applied acm that nets kills.
There is something about taking the guy who jumps you with alt and speed advantages, killing him while he scratches his head and thinks, how in the world did that happen.
I'm not currently very good...I have some moments though and those moments are what keep me going.
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I think that you start learning and applying ACM right from your first flight/fight ... the level of ACM is what increases over time and after one and a-half years of flying this sim ... I find there is something new to learn in ACM everytime I fly ... thats what keeps me coming back.
Watching films of Lev, Drex, and Shane can greatly accelerate the ACM learning curve but as Charon said ... you can have great ACM skills, but without decent SA skills, ACM won't get you too far in a multiple bogie situation.
Has Fester ever published any films ?
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I personally dont think you ever learn it. You're always learning if ya ask me.
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Originally posted by Westy
Good topic. Me? I'm doing great. I figured out how to get my wheels up just last week.
Westy...
You willing to share?? I'm gettin' kinda tired of flying fixed gear C205's :).
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Originally posted by YUCCA
I personally dont think you ever learn it. You're always learning if ya ask me.
Yep... you start with 1v1... move on to 2v2 and eventually you can get to 4v4 and beyond.
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"The art of playing an computer game to its computed limits?"
"The art of gaming the game?"
Nah? i havnt learned the art fully yet...
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NB called my bluff.
I now confess.
I've recently discovered (much like how Rob Petrie "finds" the hiding ottoman in the living room) that I can efficiently remove that extraneuous landing gear with the effective utilisation of the immovable properties of the tower or hangar roofs.
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Whatever I learnt, I quickly lost in the MA.
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WB:
Week 1:
Learn to kill things. Kill something and die shortly afterward.
Week 2:
Regularly kill 2 or 3 things then die. I say 'things' because "There is no honor among thieves" and "There is no kill that is not deserving of celebration among newbie online fighter pilots" are both supreme truths. I shot guys parked on the runway and loved every second of it.
Week 3-4:
Getting really good at killing things. Cannot land. Before you laugh, show me your WB 1.01 Fw 190A-4 rating. I am not kidding it took me a long time to learn to land. Then I asked the Naval Aviators living up on the 2nd floor of the house what I was doing wrong. Problems solved. New problem emerges - keeping them off my computer. :)
Week 6:
Killing things and landing. 60 or 70 guys total playing the game and all are 'known'. Only a few fly the Bf 109G-2 or Fw 190A-4 with any regularity. 2 of them - 'drum' and '---v' are like gods. You can't even talk to them. They climb to 15,000' (!!! - unheard of in the early days of WB) and they kill everything. There's another new guy named 'drex'. He hoses 2cm cannon rounds at anything in his front 60 at a range of 500 or less. This is a great way to get guys to stop chasing you. Get near 'drex' and watch him 'go badger' on someone.
Month 6:
For the first time ever, I turn back on a smack talking P-38 in my Fw 190A-4 (he's chasing me at range 2000 and telling me not to run - to really appreciate this you have to know the unique history of the early WB P-38 - made with UFO components collected by the CSM), turn the tables, and blow him to tiny bits. This is a simulation fight that I can still recall in almost pefect detail.
Month 12:
Kind of stumped. I can do fine 1 on 1. But I always end the fight so low on E that then next schmuck to come along - I'm always his *****. Then I read some great 'E' writeups by Fletchmann, which winds up pointing me to Cdr. Shaw's book, which normally would have sent me to new, higher levels of understanding when it comes to ACM, E, etc.
But what really happened was one night I drank Jagermeister almost to the point of brain death. Then I started playing WB. 3 P-51/P-38/etc. chasing me. I fall asleep at computer for ~2 min. (Until my head falls out of my hands - remember falling asleep at a desk? Same thing). I wake up and they are all gone. Later I found out I fell asleep in a shallow climb, they chased, and a 'drex' - detecting climbing target-fixated enemies nearby by using the millions of sensitive olfactory passageways in his nose - came up from behind and ate them all up.
So I could tell you to read Cdr. Shaw's book, but it would be easier to say drink lots of Jagermeister, fly Fw 190s, and get stuff to chase you near a 'drex' (remember - shallow climb, then when they are at about 700 from you and drex is about 800 from them - steepen the climb a little - this gives you a good view over your seat of a 'drex' vaporizing whatever is chasing you), and you will kick total bellybutton for all time.
If you don't drink JM while flying you are forever doomed to the 2nd team.
:)
Mike/wulfie
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Don't they prescribe Ridilin for ACM?
Widewing
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Ummm... through early Apple ][ Flight Simulator with the little bi-plane dogfight mode, Falcon through Falcon 3.0, Knights Of The Sky, Red Baron, DOS AW through AW3, WarBirds and AcesHigh... gotta be better than 20 years. Check my AH rank... I got a lot further to go. =o[
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Originally posted by Westy
Good topic. Me? I'm doing great. I figured out how to get my wheels up just last week.
In a flakpanzer?
That's pretty damn gud! :)
culero
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Ill let you know after I learn to fly a plane first. I saw on TV its $49 for your first lesson.
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4 years, still no mastery.
I gave up on ACM. HOs, vulchin, and ack hugging seem to do OK for me.
:)
Whoops, I forgot kill stealing!!
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two weeks.
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After 10 years I'm not even close to being finished learning ACM or combat tactics. It's a fun and sometimes frustrating learning process but the payoff is definitely worth it if you take the time to learn.
Ack-Ack
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lets see only thing i know about acm is ummm. (ohh yeah)G10 i still suck all i do is stay on there 3 at 2k and turn on them as we pass and kill it. for 109F4 different story ive found greatest advangate is SA. i just tricky enemy into thinking im a g10 :) which works very well when i out turn them:D .but other than that is defensive stuff. like 190's. your not an idiot you will know to roll for defnse. so im saying no ACM. SA more important to me.
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Huh?
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In Airwarrior it took me a year. And ACM was my style of life to smash enemies.
In AH....well...SA is more important for me than ACM to obtain same goal...smashing bad boys. I only use ACM to kill enemies when I have lost my Energy Advantage.
KosK
My 0.2 egocents
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I really dont see that much ACM in AH, and thats since beta...
What everyone uses :
Split S
Hammerhead
Scissors
Chandelle
Loop
Zoom climb
You that know the "Art" what more manuvers do you use? I dont see anyone trying to do barrel rolls etc...
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sorry but in the current MA......SA is your goal.
lost alot of ACM when I came to AH.....but SA always gets better.
only thing I really still do use is the REVERSE on the guys who have alt. and speed adv......I do what RUDE wants:D
or just go hang around the DA....and learn to TnB
problem in the MA...is you absolutly never know when its a 'NOOB' or 'VET' your fighting.
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Maybe that's because barrel roles will get your donut killed 90% of the time.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
so im saying no ACM. SA more important to me.
No offense but that's why you'll always just be a target. SA alone isn't enough to win fights, just like ACM alone isn't enough either.
ack-ack
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A few months maybe, to a year. I dont worry too much when I play cause every body gets shot down. I only fear those who have fancy moves. Its funny though, sometimes you'll run into someone you always fight with and then they pull off a new move and you know they have just been practicing that. Then their dangerous.
:D
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Unfortunetly for most in the MA ACM skill ends at vulching or having atleast 5 to 1 odds before engaging anything more then a goon.
...-Gixer
-Hells Angels-
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LOL couldn't agree more with this one. It's a game and only as good as some programmers flight model. Which leave alot to be desired 99% of the time.
...-Gixer
Originally posted by Maniac
"The art of playing an computer game to its computed limits?"
"The art of gaming the game?"
Nah? i havnt learned the art fully yet...
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Originally posted by YUCCA
Maybe that's because barrel roles will get your donut killed 90% of the time.
I find a barrel roll to be the perfect antidote to a HO. It put's you "out of plane" with the guy approaching at your 12 and it can cause them to bleed E trying to get a shot, while you maintain a higher E state with a gentle barrel roll.
Or you can just go hair on fire, screaming, "ME HAVE HISPANOS - DIE, DIE, DIE" Never seems to work for me though :)
palef
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Hey i left 10% for you and your HO manuevers with the barrel role. hehe
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LOL couldn't agree more with this one. It's a game and only as good as some programmers flight model. Which leave alot to be desired 99% of the time.
Gixer, i was kinda in an bad mood when i wrote that :) .
But really its all about SA and not so much ACM in Aces High...
Split S
Hammerhead
Scissors
Chandelle
Loop
Zoom climb
Thats the ones i use all the time, not much more... Really im curius if anyone uses any more ACM tactics than these to great extent....
Regards.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Thats the ones i use all the time, not much more... Really im curius if anyone uses any more ACM tactics than these to great extent....
It's not so much that some players know more secret moves than other players. That's a pretty comprehensive list. What distinguishes "successful" players is their ability to competently string together numerous moves appropriately given a particular situation -- it's a matter of choosing the correct move for any circumstance. In addition, not everyone performs these moves as crisply as everyone else; timing and control matter.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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"A.C.M."...I thought that stood for Auger, Crash and Mangle. No?
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It's not so much that some players know more secret moves than other players. That's a pretty comprehensive list. What distinguishes "successful" players is their ability to competently string together numerous moves appropriately given a particular situation -- it's a matter of choosing the correct move for any circumstance. In addition, not everyone performs these moves as crisply as everyone else; timing and control matter.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Right On Brother Levi!!!
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ACM, SA what ever. It's all starting to get very boring in the MA as these day's it seem's to be nothing more then Quake in a world war 2 setting.
I can see a long break coming up soon.
...-Gixer
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"
...-Gixer"....no disrespect intended, but what's a Gixer?
Slim03
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Originally posted by YUCCA
Maybe that's because barrel roles will get your donut killed 90% of the time.
Just sitting there rolling isn't too smart, but the 'barrel roll attack' or 'lag displacement roll' is effective in AH.
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I spent the first 6 months just trying to find a plane I could be successful with consistently.
First ACM move I mastered and managed to get a positive k/d ratio in was to simply shoot'em in the face with a FW190A8's four 20mm in the wings and a pair of 17mm MGs in the cowling.
Everything else just sort of developed from there.
Now I can shoot'em in the rump in a Ki-61, or in the head in a Yak9U, or in the gut in a 109.
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Originally posted by wulfie
Week 3-4:
Getting really good at killing things. Cannot land. Before you laugh, show me your WB 1.01 Fw 190A-4 rating. I am not kidding it took me a long time to learn to land. Then I asked the Naval Aviators living up on the 2nd floor of the house what I was doing wrong. Problems solved. New problem emerges - keeping them off my computer. :)
Hehe :D
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Originally posted by slimm50
"...-Gixer"....no disrespect intended, but what's a Gixer?
Slim03
A bad-ass motorcycle if you are a sport bike type (i.e. too much power, not enough weight, way too good in terms of handling).
If memory serves, they made a run of what were essentially race ready/'racing only' bikes and wound up selling them. That's the story I heard. I used to have a Ducati and one of the guys who taught me to ride - he used to race - said that Gixers were 'very hot'. That means alot considering the source.
Never rode one. Maybe in a couple of years I'll try and find a way to sneak a ride on one.
Mike/wulfie
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Been at Aces High for about two years now, started from Tour15.
That was the year 2001, and before that, from about 1997~2001, been trying out various air combat sims, mostly Fighter Ace1 and 2, 2.5.
Learning anything seriously was mostly with Aces High, just about when the Fw190D-9 and the La-7 was introduced. I think I've got the catch on the basics, but like people say, it's still a long process of learning.
Recently, I'm learning to apply rudder-assisted high-angle/low-speed turns in combat during reversals. Still got a long way to go.
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
How many years did it take you to learn and apply the "art" of A.C.M.?
I fly the Dora.
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About a year and half to 2 years with heavy training and discipline on my part. The hard part is putting the manuevers into your flying skills. Also learning how to counter definately takes time on the MA. Newbies do not be discouraged. We were all there 1 day.
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Originally posted by Gixer
Unfortunetly for most in the MA ACM skill ends at vulching or having atleast 5 to 1 odds before engaging anything more then a goon.
...-Gixer
-Hells Angels-
So true nowadays. But I have learned the art of extending an escape so that I can kill the goons while having enemy chasing me.:rolleyes: I had learned that the P-47 is great up hi so I take one up to 15k over a caped field to cherrypick. Love the D-11. See a goon with a few escorts below me, split-S and Boom goon dead and me escaping without them even touching me. Why that goon wasn't on the deck instead of at 3k I'll never know:confused: