Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: F4i on August 26, 2003, 01:23:15 AM
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I don't want to start a HO ***** fest. But, I'd like to see what would happen in the MA if HTC nullified all HO hits for 1 month...JUST 1 MONTH. I wonder if people would actually start fighting if they didn't have their precious HO shots.
What do ya say, HTC? Give it a try, please? :cool:
F4i
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Your rudders and stick dont work?
There are a zillion posts on this board arguing the pros and cons of the HO, and how to either avoid it, or use it against the guy HOing you.
Other than giving people who either cant, or wont, avoid HO passes an oppertunity they dont now have, how could this possibly help or improve the game?
Say what ya like, it does take two to HO, if ya dont like 'em, dont initiate 'em, and don't accept 'em.....problem solved.
It is impossible for someone to HO you if you are determined not to let them.
Besides, if the 'precious HO' is all a guy knows, he is a target, nothing more, why let 'em bother you?
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That, and I know how to get the HO kill and USUALLY avoid his fire...
And if they want to HO my P47-D-11 or my IL2, by all means, LET THEM.
This tour I have to my credit a ME-262 kill who HO'd me while I was in a IL2.
Now if that isn't a mistake, I don't know what is....
Oh, and he went down in flames, I landed.
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But how do ya' avoid the HO's that you gotta' pay for? I mean, hey! They come straight at ya',, with them Double-D (20mms) all lit up, and your like a deer caught in head-lights! Head-On da' HO! MOOOhahahaaaa..
As per HO in AH.. It is a real skill to pull one off w/o getn killed.. Split second timing & cross control balancing act.
Some of the "skill-less" just use it exclusively 'cause it's all they can do. (boy, people get madder at this than chute shooting!)
However, like someone said herein.. If an opponent does NOT want to go HO'ing, he can avoid it, and kill you with little adieu, given you fall for the trap.. (long story short).
ie: (no comment is complete w/o a "What happened to me last night" story,, uuugh)
I've got 10 mins left before leaving the house.. and am at 15k,, looking for anything red.
Ah-HA! Dead ahead! A co-alt 109 coming right at me! Let's setup a "death-stream" x-control HO.
Were both in each others sites, dead-center, closure rate ticking down FAST!..
At d1700, I squeeze the trigger, sending a long stream of 20mm/50cal at him (tracers OFF). Getting ready of down-jink at d600..
The guy (knew what he was doing).. curls down in a negative G push,,
I correct and continue the stream ahead of his flight path, but the SOB, rudder skids the friggin thing zig-zagging, under me.. NO WAY TO TRACK THE SOB. And I'd wasted 1/2 my ammo load, as well as 1/2 my E!..
He does a nice little zoom climb up behind me.. and eventually BnZ's the living toejam out of me. I'm a fair-to-good player, but there was no way in hell that I could've HO'd that guy, no matter WHAT I DID!
He avoided a perfectly setup HO, and chiseled me to pieces.. voila~
Best to stick with the "payed for" HO's..
;-(
RV6
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The HO was first used in WWII in a little known or written about battle. In the attack on the north pole, pilot S. Claus downed three A6Ms in a matter of secounds using this tactic. While engaged he would call out the kills over radio communications with the 12ELF squadron. Thus the HO HO HO. :D
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"I'd like to see what would happen in the MA if HTC nullified all HO hits..."
Ah :( Now there's something I'd honestly cancel my account over. Another step towards being a clone of AW.
Shaking the Magic 8 ball I see the next set of demands will be for HTC to remove collisions and killshooter. Then players can fly right thru thier opponant on the merge and they can all shoot through each other at fleeing bogies.
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I don't feel at all bad in saying that this is an incredibly retarded idea.
SOB
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Originally posted by Westy
"I'd like to see what would happen in the MA if HTC nullified all HO hits..."
Ah :( Now there's something I'd honestly cancel my account over. Another step towards being a clone of AW.
Shaking the Magic 8 ball I see the next set of demands will be for HTC to remove collisions and killshooter. Then players can fly right thru thier opponant on the merge and they can all shoot through each other at fleeing bogies.
Not true, Westy. And, I seriously doubt you'd cancel your account over it. :D
My only suggestion is that HTC *try* 1 month w/out head-on hits (or, at least minimize their impact).
And, with or without HO's, Aces High will NEVER be another A.W. clone. I just seem to remember a day way back when, when a co-alt engagement (usually) started AFTER the merge rather than started and ended BEFORE it. :rolleyes:
Last night, a dork in a 262 even HO'ed my F6, for christ's sake. Now, you tell me...262 vs F6 co-alt..., and the only tactic the guy chooses is the oh-so predictable HO?!? Is that fun...every damn time? HO's are getting pretty old and stale, imho.
(And, fortunately, the 262 pilot paid a bigger price for his lack of imagination than I did.)
That's why I made a simple suggestion to HTC. For 1 month, set the HO to zero or - at least minimilize its impact - and see what happens.
I predict that we'd see a helluva lot more ACM, for once.
F4i
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I love when someone tries to HO me ... I try to bait them into it.
Get them concentrating on the HO and making the shot ... as soon as you see the first bullet fly, make your move to avoid the HO (barrel roll or zoom loop).
I can honestly say that I kill at least 8 out of 10 HOers (if they stick around) due to the fact that they are concentrating so much on winning the HO. Any HOer has conceeded to the fact that they might not win the HO, so they are somewhat expecting to die and haven't thought much further than that. With that ... any or all SA or merge anticipation has gone right out the window ... which makes for an easy kill.
Keep it just like it is.
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F4i, I would. Honest as a heart attack. I'll go find and play "Kinasta-online" instead.
Part of the solution is to show players that there is a better way by example. And if they don't learn then keep slapping them down for trying to take the HO shot. More than enough has been written by other AH players and trainers on how to do that.
But if HTC turnd off HO's IMO when they went to turn it back on there would be a whole lot of hollering to keep it off. And it would not result in players utilizing ACM more. It would lead to everying flying Spits right into and thru each others nose and going up into double Immelmans until someone stalls.
(Off tangent - Anyone seen Lephturn lately? Was wondering where he'd gone to....)
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Are you serious or just bored? Turn off HO's?
HO'ers are the easiest kills in the game, except for the La7 drivers. Just keep exploiting the HO, they'll eventually figure out that the HO isn't the best thing in the world to do.
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Interesting thought, I wonder what it would be like.
Generally I don't take HO's, that was something for my first month of playing. If I fly a P-47, Fw190-A8 or Mossie I might try one or two, but only if I'm close to home and think I can handle the damage inflicted by the other plane. It's safer to HO a La-5 than a Typhoon...
Most HO's can be avoided, most HO deaths I experienced was when I misjudged closure rate and collided. One of my weak spots obviously.
Occasionally I get shot down when I avoid a HO when the guy challenging me gets a well timed front quarter shot in... but I sometimes succeed in doing that too.
Still, it would be an idea to try, can't hurt much I guess.
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Lephturn made an appearence in the Spit VS P-38 thread (cloverleaf)
Here is what he said ...
"At this point just poking around the BBS. I've been gone about a year, but I'm interested in getting back in. I moved cities last year and was offline for a couple of months... after which my account was gone. I'll have to call up the crew at HTC and see about getting that thing re-instated. It was a nice break, but I really miss shooting down all you dweebs and listening to ya whine about it on CH 1. Heheh.
I'm sure you guys miss having that furballing P-47 around to beat on anyway."
Hope to see him flying again ... soon.
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While we're eliminating HO's, can we delete GV's too?
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The whole idea of a HO being "cowardly" or wrong is one's opinion. It's like the boxer telling the grapler he has to box in a street fight. You fight your way...I'll fight mine...( I do try to avoid HOs but use them effectivly at times as well--depends on the enme plane type and y mood at the time of engagement). I really get tired of the..."why you running run-stang"..."HO dweeb"..."if you hadn't had your buddies" comments. Life isn't fair--you didn't write the rules, and you can't amend them--deal with the situation given or play free-cell.
CaptG
Goodfellow Boys
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Originally posted by F4i
I don't want to start a HO ***** fest. But, I'd like to see what would happen in the MA if HTC nullified all HO hits for 1 month...JUST 1 MONTH. I wonder if people would actually start fighting if they didn't have their precious HO shots.
What do ya say, HTC? Give it a try, please? :cool:
F4i
It's not the Ho's its the enemy tractor beam technology that prevents you from responding appropriately.
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You can't tell me for a second that a HO can not be avoided....
If you don't like the HO, don't use it... it's simple, what would be the point in turning it off? So that you can Ho and not get killed? You can avoid the Ho and not get killed also....:rolleyes:
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LOL Turn of HO. OK htc no planes to fly higher than 2k, Remove every plane in game except c47's, a6m'2's( c47's only get to carry 1 troop each), remove tigers,panzers osti's m8's m16, turn of all radar, any player with rank lower than 5000 has to use c47's, onnly newbies fly fighter a6m2, 1 base per team 2 miles apart, just think fast fights easier to build maps,
Complaining about HO is just plain stupid. Or asking HTC to turn HO off like its programable lol.
You should think before you post next time. How would you suggest them to turn off ho's ? you have no clue do you. think making it so planes have shields up from front? IF this was even possible you would have suicides climbing up a bombers 6 because he couldn't get killed.
I bet you have been killed by some good snap shots. which newbies think are HO's. Headon shots were taught in flight school in ww2 and still taught today. posted complete manual for navy flight training on boards They gave tactics for headon shots.
You need to learn ACM's if HO's are bothering you, The player HO'ing isn't the problem in game. Problem is those who go HO die to it then swear,call names and insult on channel 1. Then they go on boards and complain. lol
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I against turning off the HO - but just say HTC did. Where would the boundaries be? How would a legitimate nose crossing shot be treated differently than an HO? Alls this would do is force folks to get as close as possible to you and then we would be whining about collisions (which is a legitimate whine).
Sour
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What alot of peolpe fail to realize is that it takes a considerable amount of skill to HO someone and survive. If your talented enough you can HO anyone in any plane especially if using rudder pedals to slide your plane. I find that most people that complain about HO's usually don't survive them, cuz if you did you wouldn't complain, LOL
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ok my list of what not to HO.
109.
190
tiffy.
hurr2d
spits.
109G10 because they most likely have spud cannons ive killed so many aircraft because they dont realize i have spud cannon and they whine about it over 1.
190 is even worst to Ho than a g10 mainly because of the A8 that can have not 1 but 2 spud cannons.
tiffy becuase 4 20mm cannons going at and they have very good range.
hurr2D because the 40mm cannon
spits well because you know they dweeb and they are going to HO and plus the 2 20mm on them that have good range
skull12
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Originally posted by Rude
While we're eliminating HO's, can we delete GV's too?
You know, Rude is totally right. We SHOULD eliminate GV's. I mean, for Cod's sake, they're too damn slow and the guns shouldn't be as powerful as they are. HTC should incorporate the jeep from Air Warrior into the MA so that the Knits will have something to do during the next RJO.
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I'm gonna need a bigger pole 'cuz there are some mighty big fish in these waters... :D
Next month, I'll put in my request for higher salaries for the HTC staff...paid for by us & higher monthly subscription rates.
F4i
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
ok my list of what not to HO.
109.
190
tiffy.
hurr2d
spits.
skull12
Hurricane IID doesnt do well in head-on shots. They wobble left and right. Hurricane IIC is the king of the HO shots.
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lol remove the HO shot?
Sorry, but ridiculous idea IMO
SKurj
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I hate HO's and the people who rely on them.
But it is nontheless a perfectly valid tactic, which was not uncommon in the real world. The idea of removing HO's is silly.
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Face shots were eliminated (or had reduced lethality) in AW for one reason. AW did not have collisions. So without collisions planes could, and did, fly straight at and through each other. Squeezing the triggure at the last moment was just a matter of will. It was felt with face shots enabled the dogfighting would become a joke. So nearly every encounter started with two players flying directly at each other... "the merge". What a joke. That habit alone is probably responsible for most of the face shots in AH.
A head on (HO) is when two planes fly directly at each other. It's like a game of chicken which ends in a collision if one or the other does not avoid it at the last second. The face shot is simply an option during a HO. Although head on collisions do happen by accident, in AH they are mostly done by the free will of *both* players involved. If one chooses the HO and trusts the other to not shoot, it is a stupid mistake on his part.
Now I'm not a good player, as my score shows. But I have been at this stuff long enough to know what should be done (doing it takes skill, for that go see Levithan, aka: Dead Man Flying... a fine killer indeed). I can tell you aspiring air warriors (hey, I earned the right to condecend) without a doubt, and no accomplished player will disagree, that you must start applying the principles of air combat maneuvering *before* the merge. This is precisely at the time you would otherwise be engaged in the face shot.
So there you have it, good ACM and face shooting are mutually exclusive. I think, in a nutshell, it should be your last option. But it's your choice, don't blame others.
Now, one more thing. Those who tell you that you can avoid getting face shot *all the time* are full of beans. It will happen. There are those times you are suddenly face to face with a foe and do not have time to avoid... you better shoot. There are times like when I was semi-asleep at the switch and did not react in time... I bet I'm not the only one who snoozes and loses. Sometimes a plane I'm chasing reverses and I don't notice it until too late (I'm old yanno). AH doesn't faithfully show exactly what a plane is doing or even the direction it's pointing all the time. You will get face shot plenty of times... tough, deal with it.
We need a good training program. ACM means a lot more than HO, rope and Duke Cunningham's hitting the brakes so they fly by. (Yes, it really happened, and he's the one who did it... but he was out of options and a bullet away from death at the time.) So many six calls I've given when the person didn't do anything to avoid it. They likely didn't know what to do. Such a pitty.
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I absolutely hate HO's and find those that "rely" on them to be nothing less than ... but Westy is absolutely right on the money. The last thing I'd ever want to see is a return to the AW style (which got much more tiring than HO's in AH) "Fly Through Merge".... turning off HO's would indeed end my account. I was sick of AW as it was and left for AH primarily because almost every engagement was the same rinse and repeat unrealistic garbage as the next.
HO's have a place in the AH. There are times that a HO is called for and quite often it's that last great act of self defense. More often than not, you can in fact avoid a HO engagement, so please oh please leave them on. (and for what it's worth, I find the statement "It takes 2 to HO" nothing more than a simple simon response from those who can't do any better)
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HO my fav. i usually fly my 190A8 when i plan on doing HO. I fly high and straight at the plane i am attacking at about 900 to750 i sprey a few cannons and MG and break. It usually works. Now i dont have a prob with HO except for the spit dween that rams u cuz he cant kill u. HO is a big part of this game nothing can take it away.
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Absolutely ridiculous!
The HO is a very important part of air combat. In fact it has history dating back to the very beginning of air combat. The most important aspect of HO is shooting ability.
"The most important thing in fighting was shooting, next the various tactics in coming into a fight and last of all flying ability itself." - Lt. Colonel W. A. "Billy" Bishop R.A.F. 72 kills WW1
You argue that flying skill is more important than HO skills.
"Good flying never killed yet." - Major Edward "Mick" Mannock R.A.F. (possibly as many as 73 kills) WW1
You think there's a better response to a higher fighter's attack?
"Every time your opponent attempts to dive at you or attack you in any way, the best thing to do is to turn on him, pull the nose of your machine up, and fire." - Lt. Colonel W. A. "Billy" Bishop R.A.F.
Yet, I think the guys that most often complain about HO are the defensive fighters.
"A good fighter pilot must have one outstanding trait - aggressiveness." Major John T. Godfrey, USAAF
It takes two pilots to turn a nose-to-nose pass into an HO. Either, make up your mind to evade, or get aggressive and follow through with your attack.
"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting." Capt. David McCampbell, USN 34 victories WW2
Rather than change the game, change your approach.
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If i'm in a mossie, i'll fire a burst of hispano at D1.2, then break or something. Either thier wing is gone, pilot is wounded, the plane is smoking badly, or all of the above. I'll HO till collision, a Kate, Vale, SBD or TBM, 202. ;)
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Originally posted by F4i
I don't want to start a HO ***** fest. But, I'd like to see what would happen in the MA if HTC nullified all HO hits for 1 month...JUST 1 MONTH. I wonder if people would actually start fighting if they didn't have their precious HO shots.
What do ya say, HTC? Give it a try, please? :cool:
F4i
Another example of someone wanting HT to code out something they can't handle.
There is a reason for the saying that it takes two to HO.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by rv6
But how do ya' avoid the HO's that you gotta' pay for? I mean, hey! They come straight at ya',, with them Double-D (20mms) all lit up, and your like a deer caught in head-lights! Head-On da' HO! MOOOhahahaaaa..
As per HO in AH.. It is a real skill to pull one off w/o getn killed.. Split second timing & cross control balancing act.
Some of the "skill-less" just use it exclusively 'cause it's all they can do. (boy, people get madder at this than chute shooting!)
However, like someone said herein.. If an opponent does NOT want to go HO'ing, he can avoid it, and kill you with little adieu, given you fall for the trap.. (long story short).
ie: (no comment is complete w/o a "What happened to me last night" story,, uuugh)
I've got 10 mins left before leaving the house.. and am at 15k,, looking for anything red.
Ah-HA! Dead ahead! A co-alt 109 coming right at me! Let's setup a "death-stream" x-control HO.
Were both in each others sites, dead-center, closure rate ticking down FAST!..
At d1700, I squeeze the trigger, sending a long stream of 20mm/50cal at him (tracers OFF). Getting ready of down-jink at d600..
The guy (knew what he was doing).. curls down in a negative G push,,
I correct and continue the stream ahead of his flight path, but the SOB, rudder skids the friggin thing zig-zagging, under me.. NO WAY TO TRACK THE SOB. And I'd wasted 1/2 my ammo load, as well as 1/2 my E!..
He does a nice little zoom climb up behind me.. and eventually BnZ's the living toejam out of me. I'm a fair-to-good player, but there was no way in hell that I could've HO'd that guy, no matter WHAT I DID!
He avoided a perfectly setup HO, and chiseled me to pieces.. voila~
Best to stick with the "payed for" HO's..
;-(
RV6
AAHH Man i got tears in my eyes after reading this post. Thanks for the laugh. :D
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Another example of someone wanting HT to code out something they can't handle.
There is a reason for the saying that it takes two to HO.
ack-ack
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
F4i
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This is rather pointless. We are not going to alter the sim for this condition.
If you do not like HO's, then learn to avoid them. We have trainers and many other players that are more than willing to help in this area. Don't come back and tell me you cannot avoid them. The only reason you may not avoid it would occur if you did not see it coming. Then you just need to sharpen your SA a bit. Trainers can help with that as well.
If you do not like player's using HO's and wish they would stop, then offer them an alternative, such as a better way to fly.
Out fly them, shoot them down, and offer to teach them the way to handle ACM. Tell them there are trainers that will help.
Much better than just belly-aching about it. Asking us for a solution to a perceived problem that you have absolute control over is rather silly.
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Bingo
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Skuzzy, maybe HTC could let us do something about N1K HO Dweebs in our squad? I swear... all SOB does is HO every plane he sees. It could be a 5:1 gang-bang vulch session and SOB would still dive in and HO the plane taxiing down the runway. I have a film of him actually trying to HO a CV several times. This type of behavior must be stopped immediately. I don't know if it has to be anything as drastic as the AW shield... maybe you could just disable killshooter for squadies shooting at SOB.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Skuzzy, maybe HTC could let us do something about N1K HO Dweebs in our squad? I swear... all SOB does is HO every plane he sees. It could be a 5:1 gang-bang vulch session and SOB would still dive in and HO the plane taxiing down the runway. I have a film of him actually trying to HO a CV several times. This type of behavior must be stopped immediately. I don't know if it has to be anything as drastic as the AW shield... maybe you could just disable killshooter for squadies shooting at SOB.
MiniD
HO a CV, ROFLMAO! I just spewed my Ensure Plus all over myself.
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Originally posted by F4i
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
F4i
I'm left wondering if you're rolling your eyes because you didn't believe him.
There's some good advice here, maybe instead of having someone else fix your problems, you might want to expend a little effort and fix it yourself.
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take a trip in the B5N2 and im sure you would find a way to awoid the HO F4i :D
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OK, I was just going to let this issue go, but since Mini-D brought it up....Why the HECK are the CVs so darned tough?!? I haven't won one single solitary HO with them. NOT ONE!!! I swear, I don't think I ever even damaged them. I'm suspect the CV might have been cheating, but if not, then this is a SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH ACES HIGH AND SOMEONE SHOULD FIX THIS NOW NOW NOW!!!!!!
You have one week to take care of this, Skuzzy. After that, I'm out of here!
SOB
:D
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I say AH keep things as they are. I think HOing as an initiall tactic is lame, but something I can live with. Getting out of the way is not much of a problem, even for a dweeb like me. I agree with those of you who view the chronic HOers as easy pickin's. Bring 'em on, I say.:D
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............................. .......
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I think you have to hit the Carrier's spawn point to destroy it. If you miss the spawn point but hit the body of the carrier, its not destroyed.
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I really hate not having HO's. AW had this system and it sucked.
The dweeb-berry just goes nuts when all you have to do is fly right at your advisary and you are invincible.
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Originally posted by mos
I'm left wondering if you're rolling your eyes because you didn't believe him.
There's some good advice here, maybe instead of having someone else fix your problems, you might want to expend a little effort and fix it yourself.
Jeezus, I'm rolling my eyes because 1) this thread started out as a set-up to troll for trout or red snapper, but it turned out...well, quite different. And, 2) Ack-ack's post seemed like it might be a nibble... :D
The old forums of AW-lore this AH-BB is not, for sure.
No fun. But, anyway...
F4i
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Complaining about the outcome of a troll and criticizing the community because of it? Wow.
MiniD
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Trolls are not appreciated. You seem to think it is funny that we take questions seriously. Then laugh when we address them.
I am not amused.