Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mia389 on August 26, 2003, 12:38:13 PM
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Am currently doing my PPL and having problems with holding the center line on the runway. Somedays I get it somedays I dont. Dont matter if there is no wind at all. My instructor is getting pissed that Im not consistent. Any little tricks or advice you have for me would be great. She tells me to look at the end of the runway but that dont seem to help. Im fighting the damn centerline on my whole final approach. I try to be agressive with it but seems to make it worse when I do that.
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try looking further down the runway if your looking at the centerline right in front of the plane.
a reference point further ahead is easier to track
if theres wind i just fly crabbed but track the centerline till about to touch down then kick the crab angle out with the rudder and land
you could also try tuning in the ILS if the runway your using has one and use that as a reference as you approach to land.
p.s. fighters flying in formation on landing each land on one side of the centerline together sometimes so dont sweat it you have a margin for error on most runways and your a n00b so your CFI is gonna earn his pay slapping your knuckles with a ruler when you screw up on stuff.
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I at times land on the left side of the wide runway at the large towered airport. That means that on the narrow runway at the small nontowered airport I'd land on the grass.
That hasn't happened yet, therefore I suggest you switch your landing practice to the narrowest runway you can find, and that should help with maintaining the centerline, or at least to stop your instructor from *****ing.
Also, don't be too hard on yourself, nobody is born perfect.
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Mia, I bet that you have only a few hours so far, and that your legs are sore the morning after a flight lesson. What you are describing sounds to me like a bit of nervous tension, and the release for you is in tensing up your legs. Dont worry too much about it. It will go away as you get a few more hours and become more relaxed. It is hard to get consistent and accurate pedal inputs when you are tense, but trust me, it will get better very quickly.
If your instuctor doesn't know this, she is unprepared for the task of teaching.
What you are experiencing is normal and it will disappear in a few short hours. I can pretty much guarantee it.
In the mean time, you should carry on with the other lessons, and dont let this hold back your progress in other areas.
You probably wont even realize the first time you have a success here, and after that, you wont know why you were having a problem with holding the centerline in the first place.
I pronounce you "normal".
;)
Cheers Mia
RTR
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I learned to fly at an airport with a runway 30 feet wide. No problem tracking centerline for me. Find yourself a small airport nearby with a narrow runway and practice.
ra
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Dont fear the rudder pedels, use them as nessasary to hold the centerline. I think you may not be really pushing them as needed to hold the line (keep your heals on the floor to keep from getting into the brakes) If you were flying a tailwheel you would really get used to the rudder.
I bet you are trying to comp. with the yoke, try asking your instructer to take the yoke and you do the rudder only for a few landings that may help. You may also just do a bunch of low passes with out touching the ground this may give you more time to get used to this type of control. I have found this also helps with crosswind training as it gives you a bunch more time in this regieme of flight to learn the touch.
Oh and one other thing, the learning curve will just happen (its kinda weird) and it all comes together like magic, trust me it really will, just stay with it.
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you're probably looking inside the cockpit alot, too... checking airspeed, verifying flaps, etc.
By final, everything should be ready for landing, then you can devote your attention to landing. You'll be able to judge airspeed by sound and sight before long.
It also helps if you imagine that you are not in a plane... don't fly the plane, just fly yourself.
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Perhaps the key here is to know where the front of the plane is. You may be following the centerline with your eyes, but not keeping the plane in its axis.
Take a good look at the nose of the airplane when you are about to take off. Line your sight with the nose and the centerline. That's your reference. Just keep the reference point you took in the airplane nose lined up with the centerline, fly straight (coordinated) and you'll hit the centerline every time.
I can't give you any advice on the actual handling of the plane, because every one is a different case: in the CAP-10B I wouldn't dare touching the aileron control in short final, but when flying the P92JS you have to be even aggressive when it comes to moving the stick to keep it in the runway if you got turbulence.
EDIT: Here's an approach a friend of mine recorded when I took him for a ride: http://casal.upc.es/danig27/molaaprox31.wmv (http://casal.upc.es/danig27/molaaprox31.wmv)
Hope it helps!
Daniel
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All of the above plus:
- make small corrections, landing is maintening an equilbrium. Those planes have a lot of inertia. With no winds, change your bank more than 5 degrees and bring your bank back, you will notice you moved about 20 feets sideway.
- keep your bank in till you are stoped. Most student come in a beautifull approach, ailerons to maintain the centerline, rudders to keep the nose parralel to the runway centerline ... then ... while flairing just before touch down, they level the wings and guess what .... ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip the wind is pushing you sideway and all your beautifull approach doesn't mean squat anymore.
In a nutshell, if you don't ear the wheel into the wind bump the runway first, you fuked up.
- Stop looking at the boops of your instructor when you bounce on the ground.
- Or and Frenchy's advice of the day for your future pilot life: "There's is absolutly no excuse to crash a plane while landing. If you don't like it, go around. You have probably between 1h and 4h of fuel left, plenty of time to enjoy landing attenpts".:p
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mia389 - I might be wrong, but my hunch is you might need a different instructor...
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I had this problem too when I first started. I realised I was unconsciously using the center of the windshield to line up on and not slightly offset to the left. I kept landing left. If you are in a cessna, study how the plane lines up when taxing. Pick a spot on the top of the instrument panel and a spot on the cowling that is lined up with the center line. Use this reference when landing.
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Listen to Frenchy, Mia. He's a pilot instructor and knows his watermelon . :D
Someday I hope to talk him to coming to fla to teach me to fly :D
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Oh somthing else I thought of, do you use rudder pedels on your PC? if not you should be.
Put a bit of a dead band in them and you will be forced to use them more, that should help also.
Frenchy can be a big help if you can understand what he is saying, as I have flown with him I can attest. He just has a bit of a speech problem
:D :D
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Sounds like your over controlling...you're behind the plane.
Just let it fly....small control inputs is the key....and remind your instructor that for this very reason, she is getting paid:)
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Originally posted by mia389
I try to be agressive with it but seems to make it worse when I do that.
Relax, and remember this. You are new to flying, everything your doing is a learning experince. You will begin to see what works and what doesn't. When it comes it will come and not before, if you TRY too hard it just gets worse.
It may not seem like it now but before long you will be wondering what the big deal was. Think about the first time you tried to maintain staight and level!!
I insist that my students fully understand one very important fact about flying. Flying is 20% manual 80% mental. Physically flying the aircraft WILL become 2nd nature. Using your noodle is an option that too few "Rated" pilots exercise.
One last thing that, I'm not sure to what extent you really meant that your instructor was getting "upset" with you. If this is truly the case, drop that SOB as fast as you can get the words out. Nobody needs that type of stress, students most of all !!!
Good luck :)
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Thanks guys for all the advice,, tomorrw morning Ill try some of it. Ill try looking down the rwy farther and defiently try a narrow strip around here. Ive always wondered if I would hit the pavement or the grass on something more narrow. I know I am my instructors first student so its new to both of us. Usally shes really cool but today she was beatchy from the takeoff. Hopefully tomorrow goes better. I do use rudders quite abit on the approach but I seem to mess my flight path up more then anything. Someone said it will just come and I do believe that it will, I just hope its soon. My flares wernt the best then one day I just hit one and they rocked from there on. Currently have 22 hours, 4 of em solo Thanks guys <
> Ill keep ya updated
FBsmokey
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hehe wonder is she would get pissed If i sent her the link to here:) I better not
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"a good instructor is always learnign":D
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You're thinking about it. It's like a self fulling prophesy. Some day when you are working to correct another problem, you will realize you ain't doing this no more. Nothing but a little hump to get over, your instructor knows this, or should. Sounds like she's making you nervous. Ask for the help of another instructor on this one issue, she shouldn't mind.
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having problems with holding the center line on the runway
First off, I never have trouble with the centerline staying on the runway, where I fly it never moves, it is painted on just fine.
Second, get a new instructor, women shouldn't fly and we certainly know they spend enough time telling us what to to the rest of our lives.
Third, if you absolutely have to fly with her, next time yell out "back off biatch, I'm in the left seat and I'am flying this aircraft".
heheheh If you follow number 3, you will probably have a new Instructor shortly, possible at a differant flight school. :)
You have been given some good advice, relax, stay on the pedals, look down the runway some, it will be handy if you can get the hang of maintaining centerline as alot of examiners will watch for that on your checkride.
dago
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mia, where in Florida are you flying from?
I have about the same # of hours as you :)
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It's bad enough having a woman tell me how to drive. I can't imagine having one yapping away when I'm trying to land an airplane.
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Originally posted by udet
mia, where in Florida are you flying from?
I have about the same # of hours as you :)
DeLand Florida
Regional Airline Accedemy (http://www.raajobs.com)
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Originally posted by Dago
First off, I never have trouble with the centerline staying on the runway, where I fly it never moves, it is painted on just fine.
Second, get a new instructor, women shouldn't fly and we certainly know they spend enough time telling us what to to the rest of our lives.
Third, if you absolutely have to fly with her, next time yell out "back off biatch, I'm in the left seat and I'am flying this aircraft".
heheheh If you follow number 3, you will probably have a new Instructor shortly, possible at a differant flight school. :)
You have been given some good advice, relax, stay on the pedals, look down the runway some, it will be handy if you can get the hang of maintaining centerline as alot of examiners will watch for that on your checkride.
dago
LOL dago you crack me up.
Today I almost was to my limit, would of felt good saying
"back off biatch, I'm in the left seat and I'am flying this aircraft".
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Originally posted by mia389
DeLand Florida
Regional Airline Accedemy (http://www.raajobs.com)
haha Daytona here. I'm a Riddle boy but I don't fly with them. U guys getting it on with the Stetson chicks, right? :)
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back off biatch, I'm in the left seat and I'am flying this aircraft".
Glad you liked it. :)
Thinking about it, there are many times I think yelling this out would be appropriate, even when not in an aircraft. Imagine the look a womans face when you yelled it while driving a car, ordering a meal, putting up a Christmas tree, painting a room, etc. :D
dago
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Originally posted by udet
haha Daytona here. I'm a Riddle boy but I don't fly with them. U guys getting it on with the Stetson chicks, right? :)
My condolences Udet
:D
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Here are some things I do with my students that helps sometimes...
Fly low approaches about 5-10 feet above the runway but not touching down. That will keep you in ground effect where you have to work more to stay on centerline. At some point when they're comfortable with tracking centerline, I pull power on them.
They usually learn to track centerline, flare, and add in crosswind correction within a few tries. Have your instructor fly the first few, with you looking outside to pick up the visual cues around you.
Most common problem I see is people "stop flying the plane" when they get low, and just let the wind or turning tendencies push them around.
Another thing that helps for getting lined up on final...
Use the approach and departure ends like a gun sight to tell if you're lined up. If you're relying on markings at this point in your training, you'll have problems when you go to an unfamiliar airport.
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RELAX!
And if you really want to challenge yourself, fly into someplace thats got a 25-30 foot wide hunk of asphalt on a windy day.
Flew into a little place called Brookville on the west side of Dayton during the airshow and my squadron's annual reunion (Flew into Cox the first day, Thursday, of the airshow. Had my parking arrangements get botched and found an easier place to get to) and this little sucker was 25x2500 with trees at both ends.
Daytime approach in the morning wasn't so bad, took note of where the trees were, power lines, and towers were nearby and flew the approach. 8kts across the runway, piece of cake. Came back that night after work (live/work in columbus) and had a heart to heart chat with the pilot controlled lights for a while before they would kick on, then they turned on on my last 3 clicks as i turned to divert. flew my first approach, flaps to full (only 30º in a 1999 172R) maintain 55kts. Got a little quick on final and around i go. Second approach, fly it down to short final and point the nose down, 60kts now just before i firewall the throttle again the landing light takes effect and i see asphalt! Power off and a quick sideslip shuffle, plop the mains down and up with the flaps then on to the brakes. Down and stopped in time to make the one and only turnoff.
There are plenty of places in florida that have "thin" runways, fly over there and have a different taste of keeping the centerline...especially when there isn't one painted on the runway :)
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Originally posted by Golfer
There are plenty of places in florida that have "thin" runways, fly over there and have a different taste of keeping the centerline...especially when there isn't one painted on the runway :)
north county airport near Orlando (may be called north country) is as I recall about 25 ft wide (hard to find as its next to a road) I droped in there once due to T-storms to the west
Real thin RW with a crosswind (good place as no tower and not a bunch of others to contend with)
They should give out t-shirts
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Well today went 10 times better. I asked her if we can head to a small stip or a narrow one and she woulndt let me. I asked why and she said she dont trust me hehe. But did couple landings today and both were on the center line. I was alot more relaxed and laughing actually when on the approach. I was thinking of:: back off biatch i got the controls as I was on final. she was ramblin on about something but I just kept thinking of this message board. Both were in 3ft of the center line and were great landings. Then I looked at her and said next time just shutup and act like your not here, Ill do fine. Then she went on about saying,,,,,,see I told ya I talked you in that whole approach. I was just laughing at her. I told her after that I didnt listen to a word she said, I was trying to relax. She was wondering why I was laughing. Got some night flight time tonight, see if I can hit that center line again. My rudder pedals were alot more inline with the flight of the piper today. Think before I would use the rudder then let off it. Both times today I held the right rudder and seemed to work alot better. Everytime I went to 0 thrust I needed to let off a bit on the pedals to maintain the centerline. It almost felt right today so hopefully tonight goes aswell. Thanks again guys,, you helped me out alot. Am still little squirly when i touch down though,,,,left right left ok there it is :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by udet
haha Daytona here. I'm a Riddle boy but I don't fly with them. U guys getting it on with the Stetson chicks, right? :)
Where my instructor is from. Shes 23 and think came from riddle like 2months ago. Alot of our instructors are from Riddle.
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ah ok you got stuck with a Riddle biach. Just tell her being a biach might have worked at Riddle, but doesn't work in the real world, especially when there are plenty of hungry CFIs ready to take her job.
Btw what;s her name? If she just graduated I might have known her.
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Easy, forget flying planes and fly helicopters. Alot more fun and you don't have to worry about centerlines, navigation and faxing 5 pages of flightplans everytime you want to go for a scenic.
...-Gixer
-Hells Angels-
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When you're frustrated, and your instructor is telling you how his blind grandmother can fly better than you, I suggest you tell your instructor to land the plane, and when he stops the plane and kills the engine, get out of the plane, walk around to the side he is getting out of, wait for him to extend his leg out of the plane, then kick the door into his leg, open the door and punch the sucker on the nose, then drag him out of the plane by his hair.........oh, wait a minute...it's coming back to me now, now where was I? Oh yeah, just stick with it kid, soon you will solo, and you won't remember your instructor. ;)
Thorns
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Originally posted by Gixer
Easy, forget flying planes and fly helicopters. Alot more fun and you don't have to worry about centerlines, navigation and faxing 5 pages of flightplans everytime you want to go for a scenic.
...-Gixer
-Hells Angels-
Whats the average total to get a private helo license?
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not just one, but both testicals.
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LOL Golfer, thats a pretty close estimate.
Here in Canada you are looking at around $24000.00, just for the flight time.
This gets you 60 hours of flying, with an instructor.
Add in about $1200.00 for ground school and books.
Add in $200.00 for a check ride.
Add in the usual Transport Canada fees. ($.seems to depend on the day and the interpretation of the fee schedule by the examiner).
Add in fee for a medical. ($ depends where you live).
Ya gotta be independently wealthy to fly helicopters for pleasure.
Cough up another $1500.00 for a quality helmet. (us helicopter types gotta protect what little we have in the noodle department).
So..... better off spending the extra dough to complete a commercial license. At least you can start to recoup the $$$ you just spent (if you can find work as a newbie..a whole other story).
The good news?...If you can pat your head and rub your tummy at the same time you can fly a Helicopter.
If I can do it, anybody can. (I am the dopiest, whiniest, most stubborn woppity driver I know).
Cheers,
RTR
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yeah from what ive seen being around general aviation so far flight time for an older whirlybird type machine (bubble canopy hughes) you're looking at about double cost per flight hour than for the latest and greatest skyhawk so about $200 per flight hour plus the flight instructor. I will settle for being a non-rotorhead for now :)
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I got my PPL recently and had this problem, until my CFI told me the trick.
You are probably trying to line up your airplane's nose or dash on the centerline with your eyes on the landing point. Don't.
Focus further down the runway. Then, and this is the trick, fly your prettythangcrack onto the centerline. Visualize yourself sliding onto the runway prettythang first, like you are in a waterslide, and giving yourself a wedgie with the runway stripe. For some reason, the airplane always lined up perfectly when I started visualizing in that manner.
Good luck!
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i flew mostly 172s as a student, then one day i hopped in a 152 and that was the easiest thing in the world to land. I dont know if it was sitting "flatter" or what, but after that landings came easy. You mentioned pipers...maybe give something like a 152 a trip around the patch.
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I think you should stop taking lessons in a trike sissy gear, and find a taildragger to complete your PPL. You will learn how to use the rudder.
Thorns
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Absolutely.
Tail draggers are essential to learn good landings. While I enjoy flying aerobatics with the CAP10B, the best thing I learned from her is getting a good 3-point landing.
Daniel
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Originally posted by Golfer
i flew mostly 172s as a student, then one day i hopped in a 152 and that was the easiest thing in the world to land. I dont know if it was sitting "flatter" or what, but after that landings came easy. You mentioned pipers...maybe give something like a 152 a trip around the patch.
Agreed.
The 152 is a piece of cake to land, because it has less wing area than the 172, its easier to control how much altittude and speed you lose.
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Then, and this is the trick, fly your prettythangcrack onto the centerline.
Sig material?... I think so.
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I know I'd be really uncomfortable being so close to that instuctor.
But I dont condemn that behavior. There absolutely nothing wrong with being gay.