Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on August 26, 2003, 02:58:56 PM
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For his Great Society.
from 1963 when Lyndon Johnson took office until 1970 as the impact of his Great Society programs were felt, the portion of Americans living below the poverty line dropped from 22.2 percent to 12.6 percent, the most dramatic decline over such a brief period in this century.
The Great Society saw government as providing a hand up, not a handout. The cornerstone was a thriving economy (which the 1964 tax cut sparked)
Since 1965 the federal government has provided more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in 86 million college loans to 29 million students, and more than $14 billion in work-study awards to 6 million students. Today nearly 60 percent of full-time undergraduate students receive federal financial aid under Great Society programs and their progeny.
Thank You LBJ, a Great Democrat. (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/1999/9910.califano.html)
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Sheesh MT,..you been going to the Sandman Fishing School or what? That's some pretty raunchy bait.
I would be very surprised if the sharp minds of this community were to even sniff it, much less nibble on it.
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I believe!!!!!!!!
(sandman school.... bah! He went to the MT School!!)
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Yaaay he created 3 generations of parasites, WTFG LBJ!!!
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Let me get this in before the flames begin...
LBJ did more for Civil Rights than any other President since Lincoln. His work in Congress brought electricity to rural America where companies deemed it unprofitable. His downfall was Vietnam, a dirty little war handed down to him from Eisenhower via Kennedy. LBJ was not faultless on Vietnam, but he was given some very bad intel during the war from Westmoreland and very bad advice from McNamera. Just imagine what could have been accomplished in America if Ike had never entered the conflict.
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Not bad work for a guy who stole his election into congress
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Originally posted by funkedup
Yaaay he created 3 generations of parasites, WTFG LBJ!!!
ROTFLOL!
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Originally posted by rpm371
His downfall was Vietnam, a dirty little war handed down to him from Eisenhower via Kennedy.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz....wrong answer. Take Eisenhower out of it.
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Rip, crack open a history book.
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Originally posted by JimBear
Not bad work for a guy who stole his election into congress
His dislike for Kennedy was obvious, and the swing vote in Texas that got Kennedy in office was obvious Mob foul play. I wonder what LBJ had to pay to get his boss snuffed?
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Originally posted by rpm371
Rip, crack open a history book.
I suggest you quit trying to interpret and rewrite history.
Diem’s army only received advice and minimal aid in 1954-56.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Let me get this in before the flames begin...
LBJ did more for Civil Rights than any other President since Lincoln. His work in Congress brought electricity to rural America where companies deemed it unprofitable. His downfall was Vietnam, a dirty little war handed down to him from Eisenhower via Kennedy. LBJ was not faultless on Vietnam, but he was given some very bad intel during the war from Westmoreland and very bad advice from McNamera. Just imagine what could have been accomplished in America if Ike had never entered the conflict.
Dirty little war eh?
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Originally posted by funkedup
Yaaay he created 3 generations of parasites, WTFG LBJ!!!
hehe thats gonna leave a mark!
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Dirty little war eh?
In 1961, South Vietnam signed a military and economic aid treaty with the United States leading to the arrival (1961) of U.S. support troops and the formation (1962) of the U.S. Military Assistance Command. Mounting dissatisfaction with the ineffectiveness and corruption of Diem’s government culminated (Nov., 1963) in a military coup engineered by Duong Van Minh; Diem was executed. No one was able to establish control in South Vietnam until June, 1965, when Nguyen Cao Ky became premier, but U.S. military aid to South Vietnam increased, especially after the U.S. Senate passed the Tonkin Gulf resolution (Aug. 7, 1964) at the request of President Lyndon B. Johnson.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Rip, crack open a history book.
Maybe I missed something, but why would Ike get involved in an uprising in a French colony? I thought the French were fighting the Viet Minh on their own (which was part of their reason for not getting involved in Korea). :confused:
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz....wrong answer. Take Eisenhower out of it.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Vietnam
You have a row of dominoes set up; you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is that it will go over very quickly.
The Gettysburg College Address... 1959 (Pre Kennedy Oh wrong-again-bimmer-fester)
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/eisen.htm
Because of the proximity of large Communist military formations in the north, Free Viet-Nam must maintain substantial numbers of men under arms. Moreover, while the Government has shown real progress in cleaning out Communist guerrillas, those remaining continue to be a disruptive influence in the nation's life.
Unassisted, Viet-Nam cannot at this time produce and support the military formations essential to it or, equally important, the morale--the hope, the confidence, the pride--necessary to meet the dual threat of aggression from without and subversion within its borders.
Owned again!
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Originally posted by gofaster
Maybe I missed something, but why would Ike get involved in an uprising in a French colony? I thought the French were fighting the Viet Minh on their own (which was part of their reason for not getting involved in Korea). :confused:
This is a good LINK (http://www.nyvietnamveteransmemorial.org/vvm/exp_topic.jsp?subtopic=Dwight+D.+Eisenhower) that will help you understand why.
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Aid. Big deal. We give lots of countries aid. What year did we sent troops over? OOOooooh! 1961! ;)
Because Roosevelt denounced Nazi's in the 30's and sent aid to England, does that mean HE started WW2? ;)
You've been Californicated. :D
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Thank you LBJ...you're ideas were worthy, it has been the execution of those ideas which has been lacking.
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Originally posted by Rude
Thank you LBJ...you're ideas were worthy, it has been the execution of those ideas which has been lacking.
OMG...Rude and I agree on something. :eek:
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Originally posted by Rude
it has been the execution of those ideas which has been lacking.
...thanks to the Democratic Party.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Aid. Big deal. We give lots of countries aid. What year did we sent troops over? OOOooooh! 1961! ;)
Owned back at ya.
Take a trip out to DC someday Rip. Find the VN Memorial and see which year the names start appearing. Then send your apology for your stubborn wrongness to Skuzzy for posting.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Sheesh MT,..you been going to the Sandman Fishing School or what? That's some pretty raunchy bait.
I would be very surprised if the sharp minds of this community were to even sniff it, much less nibble on it.
Ahem....
nanner nanner. :D
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Take a trip out to DC someday Rip. Find the VN Memorial and see which year the names start appearing. Then send your apology for your stubborn wrongness to Skuzzy for posting.
We had American flyers in England before 1941...so I guess it was Roosevelt that started WW2 eh? handsomehunk...typcial liberal southern californian.:eek: (When the bait fits, use it)
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I seem to remember hearing that the first US military casualty in Vietnam was in 1945.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
We had American flyers in England before 1941...so I guess it was Roosevelt that started WW2 eh? handsomehunk...typcial liberal southern californian.:eek: (When the bait fits, use it)
Rip, your statement has been weighed, measured and found lacking.
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Incredible.
I am constantly amazed at your ability to claim victory in the jaws of defeat. Your like that Black Knight in the Holy Grail. You haven't a leg to stand on so you spit and want to call it a draw. Too funny Ripster.
BTW, there were 692 american military personnel in VN when Eisenhower left office.
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I read posts like this, and think to myself:
"How pathetic your life must be if you have nothing better to do than surf the internet, looking for things to post that will stir toejam up."
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Well MT,..apparently I was incorrect in my assessment. The fish must be starved,..for the life of me I have no idea why.
Looks like a trollers paradise today.
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LBJ is the one who faked a Vietnamese attack on US forces (Gulf of Tonkin) and used it as a pretense to start a shooting war. Pretty hilarious to see the dumbocrats try to blame it on Ike. The stuff done on Ike's watch was no different than what was done in dozens of other countries. It was JFK and LBJ who escalated it into the biggest military disaster in American history.
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Originally posted by Martlet
I read posts like this, and think to myself:
"How pathetic your life must be if you have nothing better to do than surf the internet, looking for things to post that will stir toejam up."
We refer to him in our inner circle as "Elfenwolf Jr." Also your sterotypical Liberal Southern Californian. You can kind of relate why they're going thru a recall now.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Rip, your statement has been weighed, measured and found lacking.
"Just imagine what could have been accomplished in America if Ike had never entered the conflict."
As has yours, son.
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Yup thank you LBJ for over 58 k dead in viet nam:(
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Originally posted by rpm371
LBJ was not faultless on Vietnam, but he was given some very bad intel during the war from Westmoreland and very bad advice from McNamera. Just imagine what could have been accomplished in America if Ike had never entered the conflict.
Let's include the line preceeding and re-evaluate. LBJ was not faultless, never said he was. The War in Vietnam was handled badly on MANY levels. LBJ did pass Medicare, increase Social Security benefits, the first federal general aid to education law and focused on disadvantaged children in city slums and rural areas, the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, and let's not forget his participation in the formation of the Space Program just to name a few.
As has yours, son.
I'm pretty sure you have greatly underestimated my age....Jr.
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Hey Skuzzy, you have my CTD problems worked out yet? :D
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Who financed LBJ?
Brown & Root.
Who made gazillions off the Vietnam war?
Brown & Root.
Who was having second thoughts about Vietnam and never sent in more than 16,000 troops?
JFK.
Who jumped into Vietnam with both feet sending in over 350,000 troops with JFK out of the way?
LBJ.
Who locked away records relating to the assasination of JFK for 75 years?
LBJ.
Who was it again that killed JFK?
anyone? anyone?
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Originally posted by funkedup
Yaaay he created 3 generations of parasites, WTFG LBJ!!!
You are underestimating the guy, Funk. Three generations so far, but many more to come.
It just happens that the children learn form their parents. If parents are parasites, guess what will the kids do. And I'll bet that they consider themselves smart and they think about the rest of us (supporting them for life) as stupid.
And they are absolutely right. Thanks Libs.
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Legal driver's licences for all illegals!
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September 26, 1945 - The first American death in Vietnam occurs, during the unrest in Saigon, as OSS officer Lt. Col. A. Peter Dewey is killed by Viet Minh guerrillas who mistook him for a French officer. Before his death, Dewey had filed a report on the deepening crisis in Vietnam, stating his opinion that the U.S. "ought to clear out of Southeast Asia."
February 1950 - The United States and Britain recognize Bao Dai's French-controlled South Vietnam government.
July 26, 1950 - United States military involvement in Vietnam begins as President Harry Truman authorizes $15 million in military aid to the French.
American military advisors will accompany the flow of U.S. tanks, planes, artillery and other supplies to Vietnam. Over the next four years, the U.S. will spend $3 Billion on the French war and by 1954 will provide 80 percent of all war supplies used by the French.
January 20, 1953 - Dwight D. Eisenhower, former five-star Army general and Allied commander in Europe during World War II, is inaugurated as the 34th U.S. President.
During his term, Eisenhower will greatly increase U.S. military aid to the French in Vietnam to prevent a Communist victory. U.S. military advisors will continue to accompany American supplies sent to Vietnam. To justify America's financial commitment, Eisenhower will cite a 'Domino Theory' in which a Communist victory in Vietnam would result in surrounding countries falling one after another like a "falling row of dominoes." The Domino Theory will be used by a succession of Presidents and their advisors to justify ever-deepening U.S. involvement in Vietnam.
March 30-May 1 - The siege at Dien Bien Phu occurs as nearly 10,000 French soldiers are trapped by 45,000 Viet Minh. French troops soon run out of fresh water and medical supplies.
The French urgently appeal to Washington for help. The U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff now consider three possible military options: sending American combat troops to the rescue; a massive conventional air strike by B-29 bombers; the use of tactical atomic weapons.
President Eisenhower dismisses the conventional air raid and the nuclear option after getting a strong negative response to such actions from America's chief ally, Britain. Eisenhower also decides against sending U.S. ground troops to rescue the French, citing the likelihood of high casualty rates in the jungles around Dien Bien Phu. No action is taken.[/b]
January 1955 - The first direct shipment of U.S. military aid to Saigon arrives. The U.S. also offers to train the fledgling South Vietnam Army.
October 26, 1955 - The Republic of South Vietnam is proclaimed with Diem as its first president. In America, President Eisenhower pledges his support for the new government and offers military aid.
July 8, 1959 - Two U.S. military advisors, Maj. Dale Buis and Sgt. Chester Ovnand, are killed by Viet Minh guerrillas at Bien Hoa, South Vietnam. They are the first American deaths in the Second Indochina War which Americans will come to know simply as The Vietnam War.
January 20, 1961- John Fitzgerald Kennedy is inaugurated as the 35th U.S. President and declares "...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to insure the survival and the success of liberty." Privately, outgoing President Eisenhower tells him "I think you're going to have to send troops..." to Southeast Asia.
The youthful Kennedy administration is inexperienced in matters regarding Southeast Asia. Kennedy's Secretary of Defense, 44-year-old Robert McNamara, along with civilian planners recruited from the academic community, will play a crucial role in deciding White House strategy for Vietnam over the next several years. Under their leadership, the United States will wage a limited war to force a political settlement.
However, the U.S. will be opposed by an enemy dedicated to total military victory "...whatever the sacrifices, however long the struggle...until Vietnam is fully independent and reunified," as stated by Ho Chi Minh.
May 1961 - President Kennedy sends 400 American Green Beret 'Special Advisors' to South Vietnam to train South Vietnamese soldiers in methods of 'counter-insurgency' in the fight against Viet Cong guerrillas.
October 1961 - To get a first-hand look at the deteriorating military situation, top Kennedy aides, Maxwell Taylor and Walt Rostow, visit Vietnam. "If Vietnam goes, it will be exceedingly difficult to hold Southeast Asia," Taylor reports to the President and advises Kennedy to expand the number of U.S. military advisors and to send 8000 combat soldiers.
Defense Secretary McNamara and the Joint Chiefs of Staff recommend instead a massive show of force by sending six divisions (200,000 men) to Vietnam. However, the President decides against sending any combat troops.
January 11, 1962 - During his State of the Union address, President Kennedy states, "Few generations in all of history have been granted the role of being the great defender of freedom in its maximum hour of danger. This is our good fortune..."
January 15, 1962 - During a press conference, President Kennedy is asked if any Americans in Vietnam are engaged in the fighting. "No," the President responds without further comment.
February 6, 1962 - MACV, the U.S. Military Assistance Command for Vietnam, is formed. It replaces MAAG-Vietnam, the Military Assistance Advisory Group which had been established in 1950.
May 1962 - Defense Secretary McNamara visits South Vietnam and reports "we are winning the war."
September 2, 1963 - During a TV news interview with Walter Cronkite, President Kennedy describes Diem as "out of touch with the people" and adds that South Vietnam's government might regain popular support "with changes in policy and perhaps in personnel."
Also during the interview, Kennedy comments on America's commitment to Vietnam "If we withdrew from Vietnam, the Communists would control Vietnam. Pretty soon, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaya, would go..."
October 2, 1963 - President Kennedy sends Ambassador Lodge a mixed messaged that "no initiative should now be taken to give any encouragement to a coup" but that Lodge should "identify and build contacts with possible leadership as and when it appears."
October 5, 1963 - Lodge informs President Kennedy that the coup against Diem appears to be on again.
The rebel generals, led by Duong Van "Big" Minh, first ask for assurances that U.S. aid to South Vietnam will continue after Diem's removal and that the U.S. will not interfere with the actual coup. This scenario suits the White House well, in that the generals will appear to acting on their own without any direct U.S. involvement. President Kennedy gives his approval. The CIA in Saigon then signals the conspirators that the United States will not interfere with the overthrow of President Diem.
November 2, 1963 - At 3 a.m., one of Diem's aides betrays his location to the generals. The hunt for Diem and Nhu now begins. At 6 a.m., Diem telephones the generals. Realizing the situation is hopeless, Diem and Nhu offer to surrender from inside a Catholic church. Diem and Nhu are then taken into custody by rebel officers and placed in the back of an armored personnel carrier. While traveling to Saigon, the vehicle stops and Diem and Nhu are assassinated.
At the White House, a meeting is interrupted with the news of Diem's death. According to witnesses, President Kennedy's face turns a ghostly shade of white and he immediately leaves the room. Later, the President records in his private diary, "I feel that we must bear a good deal of responsibility for it."[/b]
November 24, 1963 - President Johnson declares he will not "lose Vietnam" during a meeting with Ambassador Lodge in Washington.
By year's end, there are 16,300 American military advisors in South Vietnam which received $500 million in U.S. aid during 1963.
Ike? You're saying it was Ike?
YGBSM.
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Toad you fascist pig! JFK was a saint!
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Just in case you didn't know...(http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/includes/LBJBirthday.gif) he would have been 95 today.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Maybe I missed something, but why would Ike get involved in an uprising in a French colony? I thought the French were fighting the Viet Minh on their own (which was part of their reason for not getting involved in Korea). :confused:
not true we were involved (not a lot of soldier but some anyway)
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dominique.pageswebs/
http://assoc.wanadoo.fr/france-coree/histoire/2ID_BF.html
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Originally posted by straffo
not true we were involved (not a lot of soldier but some anyway)
ha!
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hu ?
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hmm.. :)
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Originally posted by Toad
Ike? You're saying it was Ike?
OWNED!
-Smut
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Originally posted by rpm371
I'm pretty sure you have greatly underestimated my age....Jr.
No I haven't, just judging by the context of your posts, son.
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Originally posted by Toad
July 26, 1950 - United States military involvement in Vietnam begins as President Harry Truman authorizes $15 million in military aid to the French.
American military advisors will accompany the flow of U.S. tanks, planes, artillery and other supplies to Vietnam. Over the next four years, the U.S. will spend $3 Billion on the French war and by 1954 will provide 80 percent of all war supplies used by the French.
[/color]
Interesting, I didn't know Truman was not only responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of Japanese but also spearheaded the path for thousands of GI deaths in Korea and later thousands in Vietnam. Huh.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz....wrong answer. Take Eisenhower out of it.
Well?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well?
Yeah, if I had looked alittle deeper I would have said "Add Truman to that equation" Never realized that Truman was directly responsible for that many deaths. :eek: I should have urinated on his grave when I was visiting in Independence, MO.
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Incidently, Johnson would have hated you, Midnight.
Johnson saw liberal opponents of his Vietnam policies as disloyal to him and the country. Vietnam was a war he believed in; it was nothing he wanted to do, but he felt he had no choice, it was vital to the country's well-being....Editorial: "And to his pocket book"
The only satisfactory explanation he saw for the dissent was Communist influence. He believed that the driving force behind the marches, rallies, teach-ins, sit-ins, draft-card burnings, and written and oral expressions of opposition by intellectuals and prominent public officials like Senators George Aiken, J. William Fulbright, Eugene McCarthy, George McGovern, and Wayne Morse was the Communists.... In 1965-66 the war became a personal crusade for Johnson. It was his war, being fought by his "boys," with his helicopters and his planes and guns. Withdrawal and defeat became unthinkable. In 1967, when Leonard Marks, LBJ's director of the United States Information Agency and a close friend whom Johnson had always treated with consideration and respect, privately suggested that the President follow Senator Aiken's advice in Vietnam--declare victory and leave--Johnson glared at him until Marks asked: "What do you think?" Johnson shouted at him: "Get out." As increasing numbers of Americans died in the fighting and Johnson couldn't appear in public without risk of protests, he became emotionally distraught. By 1967, Georgia senator Richard Russell, a Johnson mentor, couldn't bear to see Johnson alone at the White House, because the President would cry uncontrollably....
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Originally posted by rpm371
This is a good LINK (http://www.nyvietnamveteransmemorial.org/vvm/exp_topic.jsp?subtopic=Dwight+D.+Eisenhower) that will help you understand why.
Good link. That would explain how F6Fs ended up as French COIN aircraft against the Viet Minh. I always thought that open US intervention in Viet Nam began with JFK's refusal to recognize Ho Chi Minh's government in the '60s.
I'll have to go back and re-read "Steet Without Joy" again. I don't recall there being any mention of US aid to the French military there, but then again, the book was written by a French patriot so he may have omitted that tidbit of information.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Incidently, Johnson would have hated you, Midnight.
Who said I was opposed to the War? I missed the draft by 1 month and never once took part in an anti-war protest.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Just in case you didn't know...(http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/includes/LBJBirthday.gif) he would have been 95 today.
oh boy I share a birthday with LBJ