Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: nuchpatrick on August 27, 2003, 03:10:29 PM

Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: nuchpatrick on August 27, 2003, 03:10:29 PM
Manufactures are screwing buyer's

So, I got the new low down on the New RX-8. Mazda is offering to buy them back because their not making claimed HP. Or offer 3 years free service(maintance)

This is the second time Mazda has done this. First with the 01 Miata. Claiming the car had 155 hp.

Ford also had this wrong claim with the Mustange Cobra in 01 as well.

What other Big Car Co's high perfromance cars are not making claimed HP and does anyone know why their doing this.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 27, 2003, 03:25:01 PM
http://www.rx8forum.com/attachment.php?postid=104717
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Sandman on August 27, 2003, 03:37:43 PM
Manufacturers have been screwing buyers for decades. Nothing new.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 27, 2003, 03:38:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Manufacturers have been screwing buyers for decades. Nothing new.


Thank you Mr.Anarchist.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Animal on August 27, 2003, 03:56:23 PM
^^^LOL
This forum turns more unreal each day.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Sandman on August 27, 2003, 04:22:45 PM
Anarchy is a two sided coin.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: crowMAW on August 27, 2003, 04:43:08 PM
Ford Motor Company owns Mazda...Ford evidently doesn't own a dyno.  :D
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: MoMoney on August 27, 2003, 04:44:11 PM
I work for one of the Big Three as an Engineer  (I live here in Detroit).  There is no better time for the car consumer than right now.  Low, low- to 0 intrest on loans-tons of rebates and best of all-INTENSE competition.   Just ask your fathers and friends about the choices around in the early 70's.  The big three made doo-do and sold it for a premium.  Now we got Japs, Koreans, Germans (nothing new) ..and Mexico is producing a very high volume of high quality cars (under big 3 nameplates).  New GTO comming out soon was developed in Austrlia, Saturn L series was designed in Germany (its an Opel).  No my firend..ITS a GREAT TIME TO BE A CAR CONSUMER.


NOW WHAT ABOUT Flight sim consumers?  Talk about a industry that screws the HELL OUT OF ITS CUSTOMERS.   Look at my hard drive: CFS3, Strike Fighters, and FS2002.  All three are ****.  Even Il2-FB suxs ass.  If it wasnt for the promis of AHII I would be playing cards.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Skuzzy on August 27, 2003, 04:48:47 PM
Ford has a percentage of Mazda, they do not own it.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: -tronski- on August 27, 2003, 11:09:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MoMoney
I work for one of the Big Three as an Engineer  (I live here in Detroit).  There is no better time for the car consumer than right now.  Low, low- to 0 intrest on loans-tons of rebates and best of all-INTENSE competition.   Just ask your fathers and friends about the choices around in the early 70's.  The big three made doo-do and sold it for a premium.  Now we got Japs, Koreans, Germans (nothing new) ..and Mexico is producing a very high volume of high quality cars (under big 3 nameplates).  New GTO comming out soon was developed in Austrlia, Saturn L series was designed in Germany (its an Opel).  No my firend..ITS a GREAT TIME TO BE A CAR CONSUMER.


NOW WHAT ABOUT Flight sim consumers?  Talk about a industry that screws the HELL OUT OF ITS CUSTOMERS.   Look at my hard drive: CFS3, Strike Fighters, and FS2002.  All three are ****.  Even Il2-FB suxs ass.  If it wasnt for the promis of AHII I would be playing cards.


Aren't GTO's a wholey Holden built Monaro, with a new front (which is damned ugly), and aparently a newly butchered suspension?

 Tronsky
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 27, 2003, 11:12:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Ford has a percentage of Mazda, they do not own it.


Mazda is now a Ford brand...

http://www.ford.com
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: MoMoney on August 28, 2003, 07:17:39 AM
Ford:
Mazda
Jaguar
Mazariti

General Motors:
SABB
Opel
Fiat
Daewoo

Damler-Crysler
Mitsubishi

There are many more but u get the point…..
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Skuzzy on August 28, 2003, 07:23:54 AM
I was not aware they had gotten over 50% of Mazda.  Sorry for the error.  Oh,. add Aston-Martin to the Ford family as well.

Volvo cars is owned by Ford or GM.  I cannot recall.  The truck division of Volvo is still on its own.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Dowding on August 28, 2003, 08:34:45 AM
Are you an anarchist Sandman, or do you simply doubt that manufacturers of cars are saint-like dispensers of joy and fulfillment?
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 28, 2003, 08:37:23 AM
Only idiots get screwed.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: lazs2 on August 28, 2003, 08:44:24 AM
isn't the holden just a Chevy with aussie bodywork?
lazs
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: loser on August 28, 2003, 08:50:24 AM
Just saw the pics of the new goat.  PUKE!

Grand Prix + Honda Civic = 2004 GTO.  

Yay for making it rear wheel drive with a nice V8 and all, but that thing looks like a huge mistake.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: TPIguy on August 28, 2003, 08:52:32 AM
Quote
isn't the holden just a Chevy with aussie bodywork?


And the steering wheel on the wrong side. If I recall the monaro is a totally differnt platform from anything GM has in the states. Though I think its the same as some of the other GM exports. But, I can't remeber the names.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Gixer on August 28, 2003, 08:55:06 AM
Why bother with cars anyway? They just slide and hit things at best. Buy a bike! :D



...-Gixer
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: gofaster on August 28, 2003, 08:59:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Manufacturers have been screwing buyers for decades. Nothing new.


It seems to be more problematic with Fords.  Mazda is owned by Ford, so no surprise that they'd have the same policy.

So just how far off is the real hp versus what Ford/Mazda is claiming?

I read the link.  247 down to 238 and 207 to 197?  Is that a substantial hit to performance based on body weight and gearing?  The letter says "no" but hey, who says that's an unbiased opinion?
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: DiabloTX on August 28, 2003, 10:02:49 AM
What Pontiac is missing with the GTO is what they did with the LeMans in '64.  Sink a huge V8 in a mid-size (yes, the LeMans was considered a mid-size back then) and price it to sell.  That was the appeal of the GTO.  Having had a '65 GTO myself I was hoping that Pontiac would get back on the horse that brought them to performance and sales success.  Alas, a rebadged Holden just isn't going to do it.  That and it looks like anything else on the road.  I think my '65 Goat was about the most handsome car I have ever owned.  Power-nothing on it, no pwer brakes, no pwer steering, not even an AM radio.  Drank gas like water but ran like a deer.  Plus, chicks really, really liked that car.  

(http://home.att.net/~dsmith0344/images/15_GTOs.jpg)
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Frogm4n on August 28, 2003, 10:05:46 AM
car companys have been lieing for years and by years i mean a century.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 28, 2003, 10:10:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
car companys have been lieing for years and by years i mean a century.


I hope that you put your opinion/money where your mouth is, and use only public transportation or a bike. Otherwise you're just a hipocrit.

(Incidently, show me one business that does not lie)
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Dowding on August 28, 2003, 10:11:30 AM
Quote
(Incidently, show me one business that does not lie)


ANARCHIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 28, 2003, 10:12:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
ANARCHIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


hehe!
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Dowding on August 28, 2003, 10:19:13 AM
Don't worry Rip. Most of the other Seattle-type anarchists drive Kompressors. :D
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Frogm4n on August 28, 2003, 10:21:37 AM
they all lie to consumers and employee's rip. I just try to buy from companys that lie less. Typically northwest companys.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 28, 2003, 10:24:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
they all lie to consumers and employee's rip. I just try to buy from companys that lie less. Typically northwest companys.


I'd be interested in hearing what makes you think NW companies lie less.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Frogm4n on August 28, 2003, 10:28:11 AM
They "typically" pay their employee's a decent wage even when they have stores in other states that allow you to piss on your employee's. Of course boeing is loseing its reputation.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 28, 2003, 10:32:11 AM
So pay compensation = honesty?

What exactly *are* you getting your degree in? Its not economics.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Frogm4n on August 28, 2003, 10:34:52 AM
No im not saying that it makes them more honest. The bottom line for every company comes before the consumer or the employee. And you know what, thats why they are in business. To make money, not care about the people. thats the governments job.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: gofaster on August 28, 2003, 10:35:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
What Pontiac is missing with the GTO is what they did with the LeMans in '64.  Sink a huge V8 in a mid-size (yes, the LeMans was considered a mid-size back then) and price it to sell.  That was the appeal of the GTO.  Having had a '65 GTO myself I was hoping that Pontiac would get back on the horse that brought them to performance and sales success.  Alas, a rebadged Holden just isn't going to do it.  That and it looks like anything else on the road.  I think my '65 Goat was about the most handsome car I have ever owned.  Power-nothing on it, no pwer brakes, no pwer steering, not even an AM radio.  Drank gas like water but ran like a deer.  Plus, chicks really, really liked that car.  

(http://home.att.net/~dsmith0344/images/15_GTOs.jpg)


The '65 GTO was a Tempest with a bigger engine, brakes, and suspension package.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 28, 2003, 10:36:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
No im not saying that it makes them more honest. The bottom line for every company comes before the consumer or the employee. And you know what, thats why they are in business. To make money, not care about the people. thats the governments job.


I'm quoting this for future political references. You sound conservative, politically speaking.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Frogm4n on August 28, 2003, 10:38:39 AM
I try to be moderate, rip. Im not a hippy screaming for companys to take care of people. Im a hippy screaming at people that want the private sector to have more of a role in the government.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: funkedup on August 28, 2003, 10:44:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
So just how far off is the real hp versus what Ford/Mazda is claiming?

I read the link.  247 down to 238 and 207 to 197?  Is that a substantial hit to performance based on body weight and gearing?  The letter says "no" but hey, who says that's an unbiased opinion?


And remember they still say they have a 5% margin of error.  So that 238 could really be 226.  Pretty far off from their original claim of 250.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: DiabloTX on August 28, 2003, 10:51:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
The '65 GTO was a Tempest with a bigger engine, brakes, and suspension package.


Correct.  I meant Tempest.  Been too long...
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: crowMAW on August 28, 2003, 10:55:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MoMoney
Ford:
Mazda
Jaguar
Mazariti

I don't think FoMoCo owns Maserati...Ferrari owns Maser now...and Ferrari is owned by Fiat.  Ford does have Aston Martin though.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Ripsnort on August 28, 2003, 10:59:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
I try to be moderate, rip. Im not a hippy screaming for companys to take care of people. Im a hippy screaming at people that want the private sector to have more of a role in the government.


"Of the people, and for the people"  

Sounds like China might have just what you want in Gov't.

And, by definition, you're anything but a moderate. We'll save that for another discussion though.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: MoMoney on August 28, 2003, 11:37:29 AM
Well I know GM owns part of Fiat at least 20%.  I think your right about maserati being owned  by Ferrari.  Now I remember Crysler bought it back in the 80's or 90's and tried to put a maserati badge on a K car and charge 50k for it.....
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: narsus on August 28, 2003, 11:53:59 AM
Well just goes to show beauty is in the eye of the beholder, pre-ordered my GTO Monday.

I am also a big fan of Australian V-8 supercar series, which the Holden races in.

To each there own.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: loser on August 28, 2003, 11:54:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
The '65 GTO was a Tempest with a bigger engine, brakes, and suspension package.


GD.  Top right pic.  The 389 Tri-Power is about the coolest motor ever (next to the 426 hemi.)

That is what bugs me about the "new" old cars.  They take *****in' old cars and re-introduce them with "retro" styling.  I'm sorry, but the 92 Plymouth GTX is not a 68 GTX, the 94 Plymouth Duster is not a 70 Duster, and the 2004 GTO is sure as hell not a 66 or even 69 goat.

Let the old cars be remember as the ground pounders that they were, not some new bastardized version.

BTW, if they EVER come out with a new superbird, i'll quit driving.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: nuchpatrick on August 28, 2003, 12:05:18 PM
I have to agree with Loser..

The old led sleds can not be remade to today's standards.. They need to rattle smell like gas and exhaust. And have bi-ply tires :)

Only reasion I have a Miata is I love the MGB's but.. those old MGB's arn't too reliable. Or safe for that matter.

Now, that I'm buying my new home. I'll be able to get my 69 Dart GTS  440 to restore. I'll be happy then.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: DiabloTX on August 28, 2003, 02:18:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by loser
GD.  Top right pic.  The 389 Tri-Power is about the coolest motor ever (next to the 426 hemi.)

That is what bugs me about the "new" old cars.  They take *****in' old cars and re-introduce them with "retro" styling.  I'm sorry, but the 92 Plymouth GTX is not a 68 GTX, the 94 Plymouth Duster is not a 70 Duster, and the 2004 GTO is sure as hell not a 66 or even 69 goat.

Let the old cars be remember as the ground pounders that they were, not some new bastardized version.

BTW, if they EVER come out with a new superbird, i'll quit driving.


Completely agree.  But can you explain what they were smoking at Ford when they made the Mustang II???????
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: -tronski- on August 28, 2003, 10:12:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
isn't the holden just a Chevy with aussie bodywork?
lazs


Burn the witch!

Quote
Originally posted by narsus
Well just goes to show beauty is in the eye of the beholder, pre-ordered my GTO Monday.

I am also a big fan of Australian V-8 supercar series, which the Holden races in.

To each there own.


How much do they go for in the states?

(http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/monaro/Monaro_sun.jpg)

 Tronsky
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: narsus on August 28, 2003, 11:23:17 PM
tronski

$33k ,  a very good friend of mine is a GM of a pontiac dealership so I will be getting it cheaper.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: DiabloTX on August 29, 2003, 05:32:05 AM
Can you imagine what dealer markup is going to be on them once they hit the showroom?  What color did you get narsus?
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: Mister Fork on August 29, 2003, 06:50:15 AM
For years, Nissan sold the Maxima listed as 190HP to avoid the Luxary tax and import duties in Canada and the US.

Car & Driver couldn't believe the acceleration and performance it had when they tested the new versions back in 1995. 0-6 mid-six. 1/4 mile in 14 seconds. Of course, Nissan lied about the horsepower. It was 190HP at the wheels of the base model with automatic transmission.

With a 5 speed manual, my 1996 Maxima was dynoed at 215 at the wheels. :eek:  

And there's Ford...err Mazda overstating horsepower when most Japanese underrate. :rolleyes:
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: narsus on August 29, 2003, 08:30:28 AM
diablo

I got mine in yellow (black gets dirty way too fast and scratches really show up on it).

But yes dealer markup is going to be huge, I am lucky that I have my friend who is hooking me up.
Title: New Trend with new Cars
Post by: DiabloTX on August 29, 2003, 08:33:56 AM
Cool, yellow is a primo choice.  Post some pics of it when you get it.  Even though its not the GTO that I grew up with its still a GTO and I respect, even if I disagree with, it.  Have fun with it bro!