Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vermillion on September 21, 2000, 08:49:00 AM

Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Vermillion on September 21, 2000, 08:49:00 AM
In another thread we are discussing the resurgence of unrealistic defensive manuevers in the game, since 1.04 was released.

These are situations were extreme negative G manuevers are used repeatedly, or situations where someone "porpoises" an aircraft creating extreme positive G's, then negative G's, then positice G's, etc.  The biggest reason that these are unrealistic, is that such manuevers would rapidly degrade the pilots ability to control the aircraft so he would be unable to continue such manuevers.

Also it is well known that the human body is much more sensitive to negative G's, than to positive G's.

So I would suggest we model Cumulative Pilot Fatigue.

Simply put, the more frequently a pilot performs high G manuvers (within a single sortie), the lower his tolerance to G's become and the longer it takes for him to recover from blackout/redout conditions. If the pilot spends several minutes not pulling these high G manuevers, his "resistance" to them would then slowly go back up. Of course it would take more time to come back up, than for it to go down.

This has a firm basis in human physiology, and would add alot of realism to the game, without artifically hampering flight models.

Model Human Limits, not just the Aircraft Limits!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

FYI, AirWarrior has had this "feature" for many many years, and works quite well.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: miko2d on September 21, 2000, 08:54:00 AM
 Completeky agree. I would word it like this:
 "model realistic pilot experience, not just the hardware!

miko
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Westy on September 21, 2000, 09:37:00 AM

 Great idea Vermillion!  Pilot fatigue for sure. And maybe this could segway into airframe/metal fatigue too?  After all, how many times could an aircraft pull these high G maneuvers in combat before they weakened enough to be a hazard?
 
 -Westy
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Westy on September 21, 2000, 09:38:00 AM
um <waves hand in a never mind type of way>  forget the metal fatigue part. Twas silly.

 -Westy
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Nath-BDP on September 21, 2000, 10:15:00 AM
I want this
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Exile on September 21, 2000, 10:23:00 AM
Very nice idea!

I played AW for a couple of years and never noticed this feature. Must be very subtle.
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: hblair on September 21, 2000, 10:28:00 AM
Having human limits would be very cool.

I'm fer it.
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: funked on September 21, 2000, 10:28:00 AM
Keep in mind we already have a reduced blackout limit.
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: hblair on September 21, 2000, 10:34:00 AM
How about this, After a certain amount of time of pulling a certain # of G's the pilot hurls chunks all over the canopy. The chunks obscure his vision, therefore discouraging such evasives.

Pyro, HT you can do it!

(sorry guys, couldn't resist)  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: minus on September 21, 2000, 10:43:00 AM

once mentioned this on open ch and got big laugh about like a answer

Qakers hate realizm  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
they laugh when we ask for some litle detail
and when we get the litle detail just like at Night they Crye   ,,i cant shot ,, well is it just normal when night or not ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Zigrat on September 21, 2000, 11:28:00 AM
we already black out too fast as it is. what next you want a physical required to play the game?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Its a good idea, but if its done they gotta raise the blackout level by 1 G.
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Toad on September 21, 2000, 01:59:00 PM
I'd love to see them model what happens to a pilot when he/she reverses from a 6G pull into a -3 push in .01 seconds.

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Would change some of the defensive maneuvering around here for sure!
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: ezdoc on September 21, 2000, 02:11:00 PM
Just so they model my G tolerance right, my resting G tol. is 37Gs  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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ezdoc
48th Fighter Group "Checkertails"
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: 1776 on September 21, 2000, 02:18:00 PM
Oh, great, now you propose a feature that will increase my lawn dart status (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)

It is a good idea though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

<runs off to look more closely at stick scaling>
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Duckwing6 on September 21, 2000, 03:44:00 PM
Great idea .. there should be a deeper look in the overallG effect ... regarding time of the onset and delayed recovery from blackout / greyout /redout ..

right now these effects have a too fast or let's say too direct onset and then go away too quick too ...

Also i'd love to se this implemented as it might keep those pesky spitters from pulling the wonder G break turns 200 times in 5 minutes  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

DW6
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: rust on September 21, 2000, 09:26:00 PM
I agree.  Very cool.

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RUST
 (http://home.earthlink.net/~rocketace/_uimages/rustsbucketp38small.jpg)


[This message has been edited by rust (edited 09-21-2000).]
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Fariz on September 21, 2000, 11:05:00 PM
Good idea.

Fariz
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Torque on September 22, 2000, 05:02:00 AM
Does that mean women fliers will have greater G tolerance??????
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: GrinBird on September 22, 2000, 05:13:00 AM
Yes Torque .. and very short ppl with a thick short neck like you will have better G-tolerance too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

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GrinBird
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Duckwing6 on September 22, 2000, 05:32:00 AM
Muahahaha call me Mr.G then  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Westy on October 20, 2000, 10:22:00 PM
 Tonight I was on the verge of tossing the monitor out the window and saying f-it. Trying to nail down a Spitfire 200 yards off my nose at about 300 feet off the deck while it was able to fling, flail, jigger and flick about the sky like the end of a fly swatter to avoid my bullets.

 I'm giving this topic a BIG PUNT because I got several replies online from folks who were wished the pilot redout/blackout models were accumulative so it would end this physically impossible behavior.

 And was it Jekyll that had the camera footage of him doing fantastic maneuvers in a Spitfire as part of a pro-cumulative-effect plea? What I've seen tonight and one other time was much worse.

  -Westy
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: funked on October 20, 2000, 10:57:00 PM
Blackout limits are already artificially low.
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Minotaur on October 20, 2000, 11:38:00 PM
I'm all for it, on an additionally condition.   This condition is that the AutoTrim features are also disabled during this time of extended black-out.

Currently, more or less the same thing happens with the pilot wounded effect regarding extended black-out.  All I do is punch the AutoPilot on and if there are no hostiles I am just fine.

Good Ideas!   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: StSanta on October 21, 2000, 04:43:00 AM
Great idea. Poor ManedeW will NOT be able to disappear under my nose making me wonder what the hell happened  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).

That guy can be pretty tricky to kill. Ya have im lined up. He disappears, you go "huh?" and suddenly he zooms up in front of you just as you've rolled inverted to check under yer nose  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).



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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: 2Cool on October 21, 2000, 05:46:00 AM
Good idea, Verm.

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"It isn't allways bein' fast or even accurate that counts; it's bein' willing."
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Karnak on October 21, 2000, 01:06:00 PM
Only if initial blackout levels are raised by about a G.  We already blackout to easily, implementing this without fixing the low G tolerance of the current model would be forcing double jeopardy on the turn and burners.

Sisu
-Karnak
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Jekyll on October 21, 2000, 06:51:00 PM
Here's the offline film (http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix/images/film43.ahf)Westy refers to.

Perhaps rather than simply raise onset by one g, we increase the 'g spread' between start of tunnel vision and full blackout?



[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 10-21-2000).]
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Westy on October 21, 2000, 07:57:00 PM
 What would be right and just would be the cummulative effect so that the more they do it the longer it takes for them to recover as well as it coming back even faster if they persist in doing the "Flipper" dance.

 It would also be nice to have auto-trim not work during a black/red-out periods as well as when wounded and even when flying in clouds.

 Pretty please HTC??

      -Westy
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Westy on October 23, 2000, 10:18:00 AM
 Sounds like some good ideas!

-W
Title: Cumulative Pilot Fatigue? One Solution?
Post by: Scootter on October 23, 2000, 11:28:00 AM
Sounds good to me, my medical is current