Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on August 29, 2003, 08:20:24 AM
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At least, for a guy writing about liars, he has personal experience and expertise.
The abstinence jester
By Michelle Malkin
Left-wing "comedian" Al Franken got tripped up by some big fat lies last week. He's sorry he got caught, but smugly silent about making fun of countless American youngsters who have taken abstinence vows.
Thanks to Court TV's Smoking Gun Web site, we now know that the "Saturday Night Live" leftover abused his position as an "academic fellow" (now that's funny) at the Harvard University Kennedy School of Government's Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy in a puerile attempt to trick Attorney General John Ashcroft into publicly sharing his personal experience with abstinence.
Mr. Franken urged Mr. Ashcroft to share his abstinence story for "a book about abstinence programs in our public schools entitled, 'Savin' It' " (lie). He assured Mr. Ashcroft that the book would document how the Bush administration is "setting the right example for America's youth" (lie). And he breezily informed Mr. Ashcroft that he had already "received wonderful testimonies from HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, William J. Bennett, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, Sen. Rick Santorum and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice" (lie, lie, lie, lie, lie).
Mr. Franken sent the bogus solicitation to Mr. Ashcroft on Harvard's letterhead earlier this summer, without the Shorenstein Center's knowledge or approval. A few weeks later, Mr. Franken sent an apology to Mr. Ashcroft. In truth, Mr. Franken confessed, he deliberately deceived Mr. Ashcroft while trying to gather material for his "satirical" anti-conservative book being rushed to print this week, "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right." Mr. Franken sheepishly informed Mr. Ashcroft that the book will contain "only one or two chapters dealing with abstinence-only education."
"My biggest regret is sending the letter on Shorenstein Center stationery," Mr. Franken sniveled. "I am very embarrassed to have put them in this awkward and difficult position, and I ask you not to hold it against the center, the Kennedy School or Harvard in general."
Rest of Editorial (http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/mmalkin.htm)
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How much free advertising is this guy gonna get?
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Hmm... He actually realized it was a bad idea. An editorial smear like that and they best they can get was Franken's self-admitted wrongdoing in a matter that didn't even make it into the book.
Hmmm... Yeah, I guess I should check out the book.
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Fanken is like a fart... loud, obnoxious and completely harmless.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Fanken is like a fart... loud, obnoxious and completely harmless.
...and eventually subsides and passes....
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Wow, is this the best you can do?
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
Wow, is this the best you can do?
I've been wondering the exact same thing about your avi! LOL!!
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No.
However, lying is apparently Franken's metier.
Of course, for some of you, lying is totally excusable unless it is perpetrated by someone you don't favor.
Lying by people you favor is apparently not only OK but laudable.
There's a word for that.
:D
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Now you're just making things up.
There's a word for that, too.
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Of course, for some of you, lying is totally excusable unless it is perpetrated by someone you don't favor.
You mean like the way you excuse President Bush for lying about the weapons of mass destruction?
Hello kettle, this is pot.
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"My biggest regret is sending the letter on Shorenstein Center stationery," Mr. Franken sniveled. "I am very embarrassed to have put them in this awkward and difficult position, and I ask you not to hold it against the center, the Kennedy School or Harvard in general."
Fair and balanced :).
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banana, please do show any reference where I've "excused Bush for lying" about anything.
On the contrary, I've said he should and will be held accountable if the WMD do not turn up. I have a longer timeline than the "90 day wonders" on this but it doesn't stretch beyond one year from the occupation.
Do do a bit of research before you sling the old bull, eh?
Franken shows a lot of integrity here, don't you think? "Fraudulent" is a word that springs to mind. Neat to see folks rally to his defense and support of a book about lying and liars.
:D
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Again, we have one case, of Franken seeking to obtain something on a false pretense, then coming to his senses and sending out a letter of apology. And none of this material appears in his book.
Yet the attempt is to say that "well, he almost obtained information in a backhanded manner, but decided that it was wrong to do so, and so the information he did publish is certainly false".
uh...
This editorial based on the smoking gun is just the kind of reactionary tripe that will get people to buy his book: someone from the right writing a smear piece about a non-starter of a controversy.
What's worse is that, if someone wanted to get off their fat pork-bellied tulips and do a real investigative smear job, they could probably find out the circumstances surrounding Franken's second letter, and if anyone put him up to it.
It's a half-assed character assassination, which makes one wonder about the intelligence of the right in this country.
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My biggest regret is sending the letter on Shorenstein Center stationery, I can assure you that no one at the Shorenstein Center had knowledge of the letter before I sent it. I am very embarrassed to have put them in this awkward and difficult position, and I ask you not to hold this against the Center, the Kennedy School, or Harvard in general.
He's not embarassed about lying... but about using the Shorenstein Center as part of his lie.
Yeah, the guy's a peach. If this is your kind of hero, it says a lot about you, IMO.
Pretty simple. This paragon of virtue who deems himself worthy of writing a tome disparaging lying an liars is, himself, a ... guess what?
Lionize him all you like.
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"Franken came to his senses and sent out an apology"
I wonder what caused him to come to his senses and send out an apology. Could it have been a call from Harvard asking him why he used their letterhead to cite a study/paper they knew nothing about?
MiniD
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Fair and balanced :).
Well gee, MT, it IS an EDITORIAL..... :rolleyes:
BB
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Originally posted by Toad
He's not embarassed about lying... but about using the Shorenstein Center as part of his lie.
Now you are the one spewing forth bald-faced lies. He said his biggest regret was the Harvard letterhead, not his only regret. It is truly shameful the lengths to which you have resorted, to stir up this tempest in a teapot. And unlike Franken, I doubt you have the guts to admit you're wrong.
Pretty simple. This paragon of virtue who deems himself worthy of writing a tome disparaging lying an liars is, himself, a ... guess what?
Admit it, you have not read the book nor do you ever intend to. Spare those who actually have read it the lectures regarding the content and intent of the book.
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Sure, have it YOUR way then.
How's this sound from a murderer: "My biggest regret is killing the dude with a letter opener from the Shorenstein Center."
Or maybe from a thief: "My biggest regret is that I stole the car while wearing a Shorenstein Center T-shirt."
The bottom line IN HIS OWN WORDS is that his "biggest regret" is merely the vehicle (stationary) he used to perpetrate his lie.
Seems to me a normal guy's biggest regret would be that he LIED.
Yet the author of "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" doesn't consider his own LYING to be worthy of his "biggest regret".
You can dance around it all you like but the guy's own words hoist himself on his own petard.
What is the book about? Well, can we trust his publisher?
From the Publisher
Al Franken, "one of our savviest satirists" (People), takes on the issues, the politicians, and the pundits in one of the most anticipated books of the year.
For the first time since his own classic Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations, Al Franken trains his subversive wit directly on the contemporary political scene. Now, the "master of political humor" (Washington Times) destroys the myth of liberal bias in the media, and exposes how the Right shamelessly tries to deceive the rest of us. Exposing lies is his goal, right?
No one is spared as Al uses the Right's own words against them. Not the Bush administration and their rhetorical hypocrisy.Say, Al, speaking of hypocrisy... Not Ann Coulter and her specious screeds. Not the new generation of talk-radio hosts, and not Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes, and the entire Fox network. This is the book Al Franken fans have been waiting for (and his foes have been dreading). Timely, provocative, unfailingly honest, and always funny, Lies is sure to become the most talked about book of political humor in 2003 and beyond.
Author Biography: Al Franken is the bestselling author of Oh, the Things I Know!, Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations, Why Not Me?, and I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough and Doggone It, People Like Me!
Or maybe check the NY Daily News review? That ought to tell us what it's about!
Frankly, book's funny
Comic's riff on right aims to expose 'lies'
By SHERRYL CONNELLY
DAILY NEWS BOOK EDITOR
Al Franken's latest book was judged by its cover on Friday when a federal court denied Fox News Channel's request for an injunction blocking its sale because certain words were used in the title.
Now comes the time to consider "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" (Dutton, $24.95) for its content.
Defended as a parody against Fox's claim to the phrase "fair and balanced," which it trademarked in 1998 to describe its coverage, the book is funny.
Not everyone will be laughing, though.
As with his best seller "Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations," in "Lies" (already No.1 on Amazon.com's best-seller list) Franken launches a murderous assault on the right.
The book's purpose, in Franken's own words: "I want it to get [President] Bush out of the White House."
What Franken has over his combatants Ann Coulter and Fox talk show hosts Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, all of whom are major targets in "Lies" as well as best-selling authors, is that as a satirist, he's free to roam from fact to fiction. ah.. that explains it! He does this all the time because he has the satirist license!
One section, for instance, is a bawdy tall tale of how former Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris was seduced into delivering the 2000 election to Bush by a Republican lobbyist with a talent for finding the erogenous zones.
But he offers as nonfiction the proposition that Coulter and company peddle malicious fiction as truth - and get away with it. Say Al.. what would you call peddling a non-existent survey and presenting it as truth to the recipent?
The chapter heading "Ann Coulter: Nutcase" only suggests the venom Franken spews at "the hysterical diva of the reigning right." Using a research team made available to him through Harvard's Shorenstein Center on the Press, where he was a fellow, he dissects her controversial best seller "Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right."
It ain't pretty. Nor is his takedown of O'Reilly, whom he brands as "O'Lie-lly." This year, the two had a large and loud verbal brawl at a publishing event. In his turn, Hannity is labeled a conservative henchman "doing the dirty work for the Bush administration."
Franken is sounding a call to battle in "Lies." "We are the country," he writes, speaking of liberals, "but they control it." He insists, "We have to fight. ... We have to fight them with the truth." And, of course, the most useful weapon in the arsenal of a truth-teller... is a lie! Al, you are SO clever!
In "Lies," Franken, who sometimes delights in referring to himself as merely a comic, stands tall and takes aim. In today's theater of acrimonious politics, he has major box-office appeal.
All of which is to say Franken's performance politics can make it hard to distinguish his vitriol from that of his enemies. Yeah, no kidding. He's BECOME what he accuses his enemies of being
I'm glad he's YOUR hero.. not mine. I also find it really entertaining how some of you can try to defend him in this instance. He screwed up royally; honest "fair and balanced" men would admit it and move on.
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Alan Funt is a Liar
His son is a big fat liar!
Both have tricked people into doing things on TV and have done it with BALD FACED LIES!
Sick!
Toad, you have no idea how funny it is that you think this is an issue. Franken is a comedian. His only mistake was in using the letterhead of a real organization to get obviously comical info from a right winger.
If Anne Coulter sent off a note to Clinton asking for assistance on gaining sexual favors ... that would be funny. If she sent it on Republican Party letterhead.. it would funny, but wrong. Franken was wrong to use the letterhead.
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So it's OK for a lying comedian to write a book that "exposes how the Right shamelessly tries to deceive the rest of us"?
Just sounds like simply hypocrisy to me.
Now, funny? That'd be the folks trying to dance around what he did, IMO.
But like I said, choose your own hero.
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I do find it funny that you singled out the guy presenting it as opposed to the guy defending it.
It may or may not be an issue... but it is definately an indefensible action. Yet... someone is still here doing it. And you missed that because you'd rather just dismiss it in the first place. Maybe it's of a tad more concern than you're willing to admit?
MiniD
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Oh boy, so now this situation is comparable to theft and murder?! What else could I possibly say to demonstrate how out of proportion you have blown this in your attempt to smear Franken?
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No... not comparable... that's why they were used.. to exagerate the point.
Basically, someone got caught lieing trying to get information for a book about how big of a liar someone else is (satirical?). Ironic is an understatement. Indefensible is an understatement.
Dismiss away. Just don't try to defend it.
MiniD
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Reality check: Franken included the original letter in the book. It's impudent satire. Alone it even reads like a joke. If you consider this some kind of malicious lie, than I can't help you. Except to tell you that you're humorless, shrill, and more than a little desperate. As for Franken, he acted irresponsibly, and apologized. Get over it.
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He acted iresponsibly, he got caught, he apologized.
MiniD
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Who gives a crap. The fact that Al Franken and Fox News are at the forefront of the supposed ideological battle in this country is pathetic. Those are the best combatants we could come up with? I don't watch that Fox News crap and I wouldn't use anything written by Franken to wipe my ass.
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Wonder whether Harvard will sue Al Franken for associating their name with bogus correspondence by mail, (if he sent a letter.) It's illegal to perpretrate a hoax (false advertising or solicitation) using stamped mail that goes through the post office. He probably could get in real trouble for that alone. US post office takes a dim view of bogus mail. Franken left himself wide open to a federal charge by doing that.
He most likely won't get in trouble with the P.O. because there was no mention of money in the solicitation. What Franken did, was probably more akin to unlicensed usage of someone else's copyright (the letterhead,) so Harvard's licensing office will want royalties off the book, if the book exists.
Of course, it's poor timing for Franken to be playing childish pranks on the attorney general, but that's what Franken is, a kid who never grew up.
"Women and children can be careless. A man can't be careless, but always has to watch out."
I haven't been watching the news much lately. Is this a big deal on the FOX news?
Les
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Is this like Franken mis-representing himself Rush's assistant in "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot". I found that bit particularly amusing. Toad is making the obvious mistake of taking this book seriously. Regardless of what the Times or the publisher says about the book, read it's flippin' title...how could you possibly take it seriously?
SOB
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I'm just curious to find out how accurate and truthful his book is.
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Heh! Al's satirical book may be laugh-less, but the resulting energy expenditure by conservatives keen on disreputing his book as a serious political text damn sure isn't.
Toad, you are Don Quixote, and Al Franken is your Windmill.
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of course there is another side to the story.......
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=438014
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I read the article, though Andrew Gumbel's writing style was not to my liking...too biased, too many put downs, cussing. This is not professional journalism.
Find another source please.
Les
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lol perhaps he just made too many points that made you feel uncomfortable?
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Schadenfreude is a journalistic term, is it not? What does it mean?
Your avitar is a crow or raven. Took me awhile to figure it out. Is that nose art?
Les
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Gordo, I don't care about his book one way or the other.
I do immensely enjoy watching the "dance of denial" that goes on when a hero who "exposes how the Right shamelessly tries to deceive the rest of us." is himself caught lying.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
lol perhaps he just made too many points that made you feel uncomfortable?
I got about half way through the article before laughing out loud. AL Franken made "a splendid second career as a political satirist"...LOL!
And " it all went wrong for the chief executive who had seemed so immune from criticism for so long.
And the answer, they all agree, is the moment that the mighty Fox News Channel - the red-meat chomping, propaganda-spewing, flag-waving, all-screaming, ratings-topping cable station doubling as chief baggage carrier for the Bush administration - was reduced to utter humiliation by a single pesky New York comedian."
LOL!
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Don't worry Toad, Franken has lost all academic credibility because of this. I doubt even if he donated lots of money to Harvard, he would worm his way out of it.;)
Les
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Is it just me or has anyone else never heard about Al Franken since about 1975?
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Last time I saw him was in the movie "Trading Places", with Dan Ackroid and Eddie Murphy.
I don't keep up with politics much. I'm a bohemian artist, more bohemian than artist sometimes.:D
Les
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Toad, you have created this thread and put up 7 posts, one of which is biblical in length. That is an awful lot of time and effort spent on something you don't care about, and much more effort than anyone has put up defending Franken.
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What can I say Gordo?
I told you I immensely enjoy watching these guys try to defend this.
Easily worth a dozen or more posts.
I have to admit though, I really thought there'd be more guys in here explaining what the definition of "is" is.
:D
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This is between Franken and Harvard. He was just too over-active in mining the comedy gold that is the 'abstinance movement'.
But someone should investigate Ashcroft's sex life, since regulation of sex is such an important area of public policy for his Justice Department.
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Well, I got a few laughs from the book, but I have to say the Faux News lawsuit was just as funny.