Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hooligan on August 29, 2003, 01:24:20 PM
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http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_808431.html?menu=news.latestheadlines
Hooligan
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Yes, and men driving white vans in southeast England seem to be the primary culprits. Ban white vans!
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When I first started to drive in Canada I would go into the left lane and drive the speed limit. It drove my roomate, and other drivers, NUTS because I always took my time and didn't speed.
My roomate would yell at me and say "Why do you drive over here...it's the FAST lane."
My answer at the time was "Because I am more comfortable here."
It took about 2 months of people gesticulating at me and screaming obsenities before I realised how stupid and dangerous this was...by month 3 I was one of the people yelling at the idiots in the fast lane not going fast enough. :D
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Road rage can often be attributed to alcohol, and that would explain why it is such a common occurence in England. :)
dago
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Originally posted by Dago
Road rage can often be attributed to alcohol, and that would explain why it is such a common occurence in England. :)
dago
no, it's most always caused by IDIOTS who drive slow in the fast lane (left lane). The wors are the ones who do it while on a cell phone and had just pulled in front of you 2 seconds before you would have passed them. Then they get next to the car that was in front of them and match the speed so you can't pass in either lane.
I've almost been in a few fights over that one....
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I've almost been in a few fights over that one....
See my previous post. :) Probably the same for stoned hippies. ;)
I hate left lane slow drivers, hate them with a passion, I call them "rolling roadblocks".
I had a guy pull right in front of me once on the highway (I was in center lane of 3), I did nothing but slow down and move to the left lane, when I was passing him in the left lane, this bastard gave me the finger. I hadn't done anything wrong, he did, and then he give me the finger. That is when I entered road rage mode.
I woulda kicked his bellybutton past his ears if I could have gotten my hands on him at that moment. I responded quite vigoursly and invited him to pull over for an bellybutton kicking, he declined. Go figure.
dago
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In Texas now, it is posted on the highways that the left lane is for passing only. I use the criteria like this: If you are going faster than the car to your right, no worries. If not, get the hell out of the left lane.
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Hey Dago, Bucky got his bellybutton kicked by a chicken today, it has been pretty funny the last week or two.
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I advise you guys who are not amused by drivers going slow in the left lane to stay the hell out of Washington state.
Hooligan
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This is why I avoid the carpool lane like the plague. If you aren't doing at least 85 you will be run over.
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paraphrase originally stolen from George Carlin
Isn't it interesting that everyone else on the road is either a jerk or an idiot?
If they're slower than you, they're jerks, faster than you... idiots.
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Hey Dago, Bucky got his bellybutton kicked by a chicken today, it has been pretty funny the last week or two.
"Not the face, not the face!" :)
That strip is too dang funny, Bucky Katt is my favorite.
dago
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The monkee fight was the best, although the ferret incident was good too.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
In Texas now, it is posted on the highways that the left lane is for passing only. I use the criteria like this: If you are going faster than the car to your right, no worries. If not, get the hell out of the left lane.
Yes, and drivers still ignore those signs. It aggravates me to no end that people will operate cars but not effectively drive them.
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I drive 1000 miles a week, mostly on highways. The typical left lane slow driver is a woman in a minivan with a two-fisted death grip on the steering wheel. I think they are totally clueless that the left lane has a special purpose. It is probably these women who invented the term "aggressive drivers" to describe the rest of us.
ra
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Even more crazy, Ammo, SA is the only place I know of where the frontage road traffic has to yield to the offramp. What the hell is up with that? It causes so many accidents that you would think it would be changed.
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Have to yeild to offramps here as well. It was done here to keep traffic from backing up on the offramp which was causing a lot of serious accidents.
Wish they would make it illegal to pass on the right and illegal to not yeild to faster traffic coming up behind you (i.e. move to the right lane and allow traffic to pass). Works in Germany.
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Yea, it is definately flawed. Rarely do you see the access road traffic yield to the ramp, and the ramp traffic generally either forces its way in (pissed off) or comes toa screeching stop on teh ramp. Here is a little excerpt from an experience I had last weekend. I made a few mistakes myself. I sent this out on the squad list earlier in the week.
"Hi all, I received a scare the other night that I wanted to share with you. San Antonio is like all other big citied, traffic can be bad at times, and there is no shortage of certified idiots on the road. In this particular case, I made a couple of errors that could have gotten me killed.
First of all, I am only 36 days out from knee (ACL repair) surgery. The Doc advised me to stay off the bike for six months and I looked at him like he was crazy. My knee hurts, but it feels strong. Even so, I can’t ride for more than 30 minutes or so without the need to get off the bike and stretch it.
Its 9:30 Pm, Saturday night, riding east on the inner loop here in town heading out to catch the movie, "Pirates of the Caribbean". The speed limit is 60, I am cruising the far left lane (out of three) at around 70. I am approaching some slow traffic that occupies the two right lanes and some slow cars are entering the interstate from the right onramp. I not the Z-28 and read him like a book. He proceeds to cross all the lanes to mine in front of me. I had slowed in anticipation of this. Thats pretty much par for course. Well, he takes the lane, but slows to the same pace as the rest of the traffic. I ease up behind him to let him know I want to pass. The car jams his brakes hard! I scrub speed off to avoid his bumper; he keeps locking his brakes to make me hit him. I give him the brights (this was a mistake on my part, as I figure out minutes later) and back off after actually locking my front wheel briefly (I later changed into clean underwear). Eventually, I get to a point where I can pass him in the center lane. I pull along side and slow and look at the guy like "what is your problem?” This was a second mistake of mine. In the car were four big looking men, and they are drunk, stupid, and have no regard for my life whatsoever. I ease away from them and continue on to my destination at a reasonable speed. In my mirror I see the Z coming at a high rate of speed, they pull up to me and just stare at me. At this point, I am getting a little anxious. I give the bike some throttle and pull away from them and weave through traffic at around 80-90 mph, undoubtedly making the other drivers around me a little nervous. I just wanted to put some distance between the drunks and me. I get to an intersection of I-35 and the loop and go north on 35. I am easing along again at around 74 in a posted 65 when I not the Z coming fast in my mirrors. It isn’t over, crap. They ease up beside me and swerve into my lane in an apparent attempt to hit me. I evade and slow down behind them. The passenger starts tossing beer bottles at me. Luckily I didn't get hit. At this point, I am very un-nerved. I go WOT and leave them behind as I scream down the Hwy at speeds in excess of 120 mph. My get off is coming soon and I don't want them in eyeshot when I take it. Its over now, but I am really shaken up. I couldn't really enjoy the movie either. I used to pack a handgun when I lived in Dallas, but gave it up after I started producing little boys. I am glad I didn’t have it then, I would have likely been in a lot of trouble today."
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Originally posted by Udie
no, it's most always caused by IDIOTS who drive slow in the fast lane (left lane). The worst are the ones who do it while on a cell phone and had just pulled in front of you 2 seconds before you would have passed them. Then they get next to the car that was in front of them and match their speed so you can't pass in either lane!
I've almost been in a few fights over that one....
I've had this happen all too often, upgraded to a full size Ford extended cab P/U with quad halogen driving lights and for some reason they don't stay there as long as they used to. :D
Impeding the normal flow of traffic and creating a hazard used to be against the law, now there's not enough patrolmen on the road to enforce things like that. Our freeways look like a day at NASCAR, no one dares maintain proper distance because some dweeb will jump in between you and the car your following.
Tis a sad thing for sure.
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PA has got to be the worst state in the Union for 'left lane lurkers.'
First of all, the state doesnt know how to pave roads, let alone make them wider than 2 lanes in each direction, so when you get the white minivan and the semi both going 65 side by side for 10 miles without one passing the other, you usually see one hand on the wheel and the other hand doing the internationaly recognised 'WTF?' out the window from every car in tow.
What bugs me is that the people in the left lane seem so completely oblivious to the 25 cars behind them with 6 inches of seperation. God knows what they are doing - but they arent paying attention.
Bugs the living **** out of me... its REALLY simple: If youre not passing, stay in the right lane.
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it amazes me that they prosecute for 'road rage' but do nothing to the 'carriers'. it seems that it's almost always the same people who talk about others going into a violent rage at them, maybe it's them.
we have a simple rule here and unfortunately it gets ignored. 'slower traffic keep right'. seems simple huh? how hard is this to figure out? if a car behind you is gaining on you then he must be going faster. that would make you the 'slower' so get the hell over.
aside from being good manners it just makes more sense. if a care is coming up behind you and you think he is going an unsafe speed, you have 2 choices get over or block him.
if you get over he goes by and is out of your life. if you see him again it'll be when he is either pulled over or crashed at the side of the road. either way you get the last laugh.
if you block them you are stuck with them for an extended period of time while they do stupider and more dangerous moves to get around the 'self-apointed traffic monitor'. all while very close to you. why would you want to extend your contact with a driver you feel is unsafe?
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Originally posted by Dago
Road rage can often be attributed to alcohol, and that would explain why it is such a common occurence in England. :)
dago
You ignorant a-hole. This is exactly the kind of country bashing that slips through, and nothing is done about it. I do not accept this as a joke. I am deeply offended by it.
For your information, a-hole, nearly 50 people die as a result of alcohol impaired drivers every day in the US. That's about 17,500 per year. In Britain, the figure is about 540. Scaling up our total to take account of our smaller population isn't really applicable, as the traffic density here is much higher. But even if our total is scaled up, the number of alcohol related road deaths in the US would still be about 8 times more than in Britain.
US Alcohol related road deaths (http://www.madd.org/news/0,1056,6896,00.html)
British alcohol related road deaths (http://www.ias.org.uk/pressapr98.htm#anchor279121)
Next time, check your facts before you mouth off against mine or any other country. You owe us an apology.
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boo hoo...Beetle getting a little touchy again, lol.
I would be willing to bet that the US has more areas of higher traffic concentration with more drivers per percentage of populace than in the UK.
Beetle is probably going to "beet" this to death like he does the gun issue, which he seems to love injecting into a lot of his posts (yet "nothing is done about it"..boo hoo), ala "CPP" and comments on the mini-con American travelers not being able to fly because they couldn't take their guns...... yet he doesn't seem to mind that his gun comments are offensive to a lot of Americans.
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the fact that the southeast of england is the worst doesn't suprise me at all.
I live in the south east, and the amount of people trying to commute into/from/around london and its 4 or so international airports using a motorway like the M-25 (motorway that rings around london) is enough to drive anyone insane. This is quite a crowded little island with a road system that can't really cope.
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Beetle,
I don't know how accident statistics in the UK are collected, but here in the US an accident is often counted as alcohol related even if the driver hasn't had a drop to drink. If a passenger in the back seat has been drinking, the cop will check the box marked 'alcohol involved'. Same if there is a case of beer in the trunk. That's why it is referred to as "alcohol related" instead of "alcohol impaired".
ra
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Beet1e:
Maybe you shouldn't post when you are drunk.
Hooligan
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Beet1e:
Maybe you shouldn't post when you are drunk.
Hooligan
Maybe you shouldn't post when you're sober. Referring to the thread title, you should know that far more countries drive on the left than you seem to realise. In Europe, it's just the UK and Ireland. In Africa, most countries drive on the left including Zimbabwe and South Africa. In SE Asia, most countries drive on the left including Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia. Also China and Japan drive on the left, as do Australia and New Zealand, Cyprus, Pakistan, India... too many to list.
But don't let me ruin a good country bashing thread.
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What's the matter Beetle, can't take a post using statistics about road rage in the UK? You seem to be fine pointing out gun related statistics and deaths in the US.
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Actually... I was just in Australia and New Zealand. Admittedly although everyone was on the wrong side of the road, many of them didn't seem pissed-off and were downright friendly. Maybe this is because in Australia and New Zealand the roads are wider than the cars, the complete opposite of the situation in the UK.
From my recollections of driving in the UK (and particularly in Scotland), if you weren't pissed off and/or terrified you weren't paying attention. It makes me wonder if Dago is completely wrong. Possibly the relaxing effects of alcohol is the only thing that makes those razor-thin roads tolerable?
Hooligan
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Possibly the relaxing effects of alcohol is the only thing that makes those razor-thin roads tolerable?
Hooligan
Perhaps greater driving ability.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Wish they would make it illegal to pass on the right and illegal to not yeild to faster traffic coming up behind you (i.e. move to the right lane and allow traffic to pass). Works in Germany.
Thought it was law already, just not enforced it seems (in California anyway).
Regardless of the speeds involved, if the car behind you flashes his lights, you must move to the lane right of you as soon as you safely can. If it is a single lane, you must pull over to the side of the road when you can safely do so.
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Skuzzy has it. Germany. The car manufacturing, road, and driving capital of the world. The best cars, the best drivers - in the world. I went to visit an old WB friend of mine in Munich in 1999. For the drive down he gave me this advice: "The mirror will be your best friend - very high speed sometimes". No kidding. I was in the left lane, doing 120-130mph most of the time. And then - a Merc SLK came up behind me - left indicator flashing - the European signal that the guy wants to go faster. I pulled over to the centre. He went by, I tried to follow, top speed in my Golf VR6 was 140... the Merc slides into the distance doing 150-160...
...and yet, I felt perfectly safe at all times on German roads.
Skuzzy - remember those toejam or get off the pot signs at the side of the autobahn - "Wo fahren zie den?" with a picture of some angry snails being held up in the left lane... The message: Get over to the right after overtaking.
Seems so unreal that the US speed limit c1980 was 55mph - LOL
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The car manufacturing, road, and driving capital of the world. The best cars, the best drivers - in the world.
Thanks for that opinion. The autobahn is truly an innovative idea that many countries (including the US) have copied over the years. But to say that German cars and drivers are far better than any other countries is just your conjecture. The Japanese for one make a car that rivals or exceeds the German cars. Please find me a BMW truck that can do the same or better job as a 4x4 ford, dodge, or chevy truck in harsh conditions in an not so perfect enviroment.
And the driver thing, KM fuzzy white A--. No offence
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How many miles does the average Euro drive per year? I, and my wife, do about 40,000 miles per year, and among my peer group, that is average. That must be taken into account when looking at road stats, for sure.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Perhaps greater driving ability.
This driving ability is not exhibited by the scores of english tourists infesting the fast lanes of our roads in campervans driving in the 'finger 4' formation at 20km/h below the speed limit.
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beet1e you've got things confused. This thread is about 4 lane highways with 2 lanes going each direction.
The gripe is of retards driving slow in the passing lane going one direction instead of driving in the cruising lane going the same direction. I find the "blue-haired panthers" to be guilty of this most of the time.
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I drive in the slow lane all the time on my way to school every morning. I have to go from Fort Worth to Denton at 7 AM every day, and I'll be going 85 MPH in the SLOW lane, with people zipping past me in the fast lane doing 90-100 MPH. But allow me to relate a story that had me pissed off the rest of the night.
It's Friday night, and I'm coming home from a movie. I was alone, in my little 1986 Honda Prelude 2.0 Si. Loop 820 that circles Fort Worth is notorious for being dangerous after 10 PM, as most of the Ft. Worth police are busy guarding bars to keep the drinks off the road.
They missed one.
I'm doing 75 MPH in the fast lane (60 is the limit) and I'm just cruising. All of a sudden, a pair of headlights fills my mirror. Being the billigerent teenager I am, I hold my ground. I'm already speeding, and the right lane is full of cars. I don't have any room to move over anyway, and I don't want to speed up because cops DO hide on that highway, no matter what time.
The headlights flash, and I speed up a bit. I'm doing 85 now. They flash again, and I speed up more. I'm now doing 105 MPH, 15 miunutes from my home. They flash AGAIN (!), so I move over to the right lane to let these guys pass.
It was a brand new Chevrolet Impala, with 4 people inside. Rather than zipping past me, they pull up along side and the passenger shoots me the finger.
So I shot it back...I could care less because it's nighttime and I'm already pissed off.
Then the window starts rolling down, so I slow down a little bit. They slow to stay beside me, and the passenger begins yelling out the window at me, with his three friends shouting at the same time. Since the driver isn't paying attention, he begins drifing into my lane. So I slow again, and so does he.
I'm now fully pissed off. I slam my brakes, the tires squeeling against the rough pavement. I'm back down to 60 MPH. The Impala, being full of inebriated teenagers no older than me, also hits the brakes, but the car swerves into my lane. They're trying to make me stop, probably to get me out of the car and prove how macho they are.
So I swirve around them and take off, hitting over 130 MPH and pissed and scared. I never saw them again after I took my exit.
I hate Texas drivers sometimes...
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Originally posted by -ammo-
Thanks for that opinion. The autobahn is truly an innovative idea that many countries (including the US) have copied over the years. But to say that German cars and drivers are far better than any other countries is just your conjecture. The Japanese for one make a car that rivals or exceeds the German cars. Please find me a BMW truck that can do the same or better job as a 4x4 ford, dodge, or chevy truck in harsh conditions in an not so perfect enviroment.
And the driver thing, KM fuzzy white A--. No offence
I think its safe to say that German drivers (in general) are probably the best in the world. The process that children must go through to get a DL is long and hard - and expensive. They tend to take driving very seriously - presumably due to the differences in driver education.
The debate over better cars is a circle jerk. I cant find you a BMW truck that can haul dirt and trailers and you cant find me a Honda sports car that can run all day at 140 MPH with complete confidence or without a mechanical failure.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I think its safe to say that German drivers (in general) are probably the best in the world. The process that children must go through to get a DL is long and hard - and expensive. They tend to take driving very seriously - presumably due to the differences in driver education.
Mazz- I will have to disagree with that. However if what you say is true, then "new" drivers in Germany are likely to be better than "new" drivers in the USA, or elsewhere. However, experience, good decision making, and a commitment to concentrating on the road and traffic make a good driver. That can be found anywhere and is dependant on the individual, not his/her locale.
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
The debate over better cars is a circle jerk. I cant find you a BMW truck that can haul dirt and trailers and you cant find me a Honda sports car that can run all day at 140 MPH with complete confidence or without a mechanical failure.
I pretty much agree.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
you cant find me a Honda sports car that can run all day at 140 MPH with complete confidence or without a mechanical failure.
Bad example. You forgot NSX. Use Daihatsu instead of Honda and it works.
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NSX? Don't know if that's really the car you want to be touting for 140mph performance. An M3 will tear it apart. Hell... most high HP cars will eat it up. It has a very nice suspension and is mid engine... but Acura never could figure out how to give it a little more punch.
If you talk bang for the buck... virtually every other car manufacturer offers something faster for less than the cost of an NSX.
MiniD
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Hah! just wanted to remind everyone that I can troll too. :D
Rightfoot beet1e you've got things confused. This thread is about 4 lane highways with 2 lanes going each direction. The gripe is of retards driving slow in the passing lane going one direction instead of driving in the cruising lane going the same direction. I find the "blue-haired panthers" to be guilty of this most of the time.
You're absolutely... WRONG. Had you followed the link that Hooligan provided, you would see that this thread is not about drivers driving in the left lane of a two lane highway at all. Seems like you weren't the only one to make this mistake. The thread is about countries in which traffic is driven on the left hand side of the road with steering wheel on the right of the car, (a somewhat obvious reference to Britain) as opposed to countries like the US which drive on the right, and have the steering wheel on the left. Have you ever been abroad? Have you ever been out of your home state, or your home town? Still, you're not the only one to post who hasn't first checked the facts. You might want to do that next time before you sound off. And then explain to Dago how you did it. :D
Hoolig - From my recollections of driving in the UK (and particularly in Scotland), if you weren't pissed off and/or terrified you weren't paying attention. It makes me wonder if Dago is completely wrong. Possibly the relaxing effects of alcohol is the only thing that makes those razor-thin roads tolerable?
Nice troll, but a bit obvious. ;)
I know some roads are very thin in parts of Britain, but when you get two buses passing eachother on such a road, they make light work of it. In the US, I saw some cars with weird wiry things sticking out near the front wheels. When I asked what these were, I was told that they were "curb feelers". WTF!? Apparently, these are to assist American drivers who can't judge the width of their vehicles - typically Cadillac drivers. I was also told that there's a buzzer inside the car when these make contact with an obstacle? LOL! Made the car look like a freaking catfish. :D
Ammo Thanks for that opinion. The autobahn is truly an innovative idea that many countries (including the US) have copied over the years. But to say that German cars and drivers are far better than any other countries is just your conjecture. The Japanese for one make a car that rivals or exceeds the German cars. Please find me a BMW truck that can do the same or better job as a 4x4 ford, dodge, or chevy truck in harsh conditions in an not so perfect enviroment. And the driver thing, KM fuzzy white A--. No offence
Hehe - I see I hit a raw nerve. Now you know what it feels like to me when idiots like Dago imply that we're a nation of drunk drivers, when in fact the US has a much greater DUI problem. BTW, I have no affiliation with Germany, but the cars are damned good. Indeed, Japanese cars are good too, and I've owned a couple of Toyotas - one was a Supra 3.0i turbo.
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Originally posted by ra
Beetle,
I don't know how accident statistics in the UK are collected, but here in the US an accident is often counted as alcohol related even if the driver hasn't had a drop to drink. If a passenger in the back seat has been drinking, the cop will check the box marked 'alcohol involved'. Same if there is a case of beer in the trunk. That's why it is referred to as "alcohol related" instead of "alcohol impaired".
ra
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/bsflag.gif)
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Then remember that the definition of alcohol-related does not mean alcohol-caused. For their own reasons, NHTSA has chosen to define an alcohol related crash as an accident in which a driver, passenger, bicyclist or pedestrian had any measurable alcohol in their system. Furthermore, cause, fault or circumstance are not considered. For example, a winter chain reaction crash on black ice on I91 involving 10 cars and three deaths would be considered alcohol related if one of the drivers had taken some cough syrup medication that morning. If you feel that I am engaging in hyperbole, refer back to the May 5 OLR study that uses the same example.
read (http://www.motorists.org/issues/dwi/questions.html)
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Originally posted by Vulcan
This driving ability is not exhibited by the scores of english tourists infesting the fast lanes of our roads in campervans driving in the 'finger 4' formation at 20km/h below the speed limit.
Were you in France this summer ?
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In my modified Healey club there a lot of aussies... those guys love their hot rods. They have some great ocean view twisty turny roads that I envy too. never have any limeyu guys on the group. never seen a hot rod the whole time I was in england. never seen anything that seemed particulary "skilled" about their driving either. In fact... they just seemed rude... they would park in front of a shop or resteraunt turning the allready way too narrow road into a traffic jam.
So beetle... is there an important country that drives on the left?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
So beetle... is there an important country that drives on the left?
lazs
Yes...Bermuda. :p
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Originally posted by Mini D
NSX? Don't know if that's really the car you want to be touting for 140mph performance. An M3 will tear it apart. Hell... most high HP cars will eat it up. It has a very nice suspension and is mid engine... but Acura never could figure out how to give it a little more punch.
If you talk bang for the buck... virtually every other car manufacturer offers something faster for less than the cost of an NSX.
MiniD
I agree, that it is not very fast considering the high price, but it is a 175 mph car, and is very reliable and has great handling and very good aerodynamics for high speed driving. One of the few road cars that actually generates significant downforce at high speeds. It certainly fits Saur's description of a "sports car that can run all day at 140 MPH with complete confidence or without a mechanical failure." For that matter the S2000 would qualify as well.
PS The reason Honda hasn't given it more punch is Japanese regulations which restrict cars to about 280 hp. So they've gone for improving the suspension and aerodynamics and reducing weight. The NSX-R is about 600 lbs less than an M3.
(Edit, my figures were wrong.)
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Originally posted by Hooligan
I advise you guys who are not amused by drivers going slow in the left lane to stay the hell out of Washington state.
Hooligan
No kidding...I'm not sure what the problem is, but if the car has a WA plate, chances are it's got an idiot behind the wheel. Yeah, that's an exaggeration, but not by much.
SOB
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You ignorant a-hole. This is exactly the kind of country bashing that slips through, and nothing is done about it. I do not accept this as a joke. I
ROFLMAO. I posted my insult as "beetle bait" and danged if I didnt reel one it.
I have to apologize, as you have not posted your typical nonsense about the USA lately, and I am sure we all appreciate it. I shouldn't have started it either. Maybe you finally took my advice and got into therapy, I don't know but it has been helping. Keep up the good work.
dago
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Originally posted by ra
Then remember that the definition of alcohol-related does not mean alcohol-caused. For their own reasons, NHTSA has chosen to define an alcohol related crash as an accident in which a driver, passenger, bicyclist or pedestrian had any measurable alcohol in their system. Furthermore, cause, fault or circumstance are not considered. For example, a winter chain reaction crash on black ice on I91 involving 10 cars and three deaths would be considered alcohol related if one of the drivers had taken some cough syrup medication that morning. If you feel that I am engaging in hyperbole, refer back to the May 5 OLR study that uses the same example.
Doesn't cut any ice.
You could say that an "alcohol related" fatality, in which the rear seat passenger of one of the vehicles involved in a fatal collision had consumed excess alcohol, was not an "alcohol caused" fatality, if the driver of that car was sober. But by the same token, consider the situation in which a drunk driver kills another motorist as a result of alcohol impairment. That would be an alcohol caused fatality, even if the driver who died had been stone cold sober. The two scenarios cancel eachother out. The fact remains that the 17,000+ alcohol related fatalities on American roads each year are considered preventable. The MADD report quotes this stat: "The bad news, however, is that 17,419 people died in preventable tragedies accounting for 41 percent of total traffic fatalities." I underlined the important word. Now for the life of me, I can't see that offloading tipsy rear seat passengers is going to make much of a dent in that 17,000+ death toll stemming from alcohol abuse on America's roads. The important thing to bear in mind is that the cause of these fatalities comes under the heading of "Impaired Driving". I don't see that carrying an intoxicated passenger in the rear seat contributes to "impaired driving", otherwise the accident rate amongst taxi companies would be off the scale. Clearly, driving impairment arises from the driver having consumed excess alcohol - nothing to do with any passengers.
The fact remains that the number of alcohol related road deaths in the US is about 30 times higher than in Britain.
Clearly, Americans can't hold their drink, but at the sime time it's very surprising considering that all American beer is piss.
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Beetle the MADD people are biased and they are the ones who encourage the local agencies to "cook the books". The alcohol related stats are BS.
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Clearly, Americans can't hold their drink, but at the sime time it's very surprising considering that all American beer is piss.
What an ignorant thing to say, but then it is Beetle after all. Why does he insist of getting into US vs UK pissing matches anyway?
The guy can not let up on his American gun comments and loves to stoke those flames. Then he makes blanket statements about Americans. Can't we get a break from this guy?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Beetle the MADD people are biased and they are the ones who encourage the local agencies to "cook the books". The alcohol related stats are BS.
Forgot to mention: 1.5m DUI arrests in the US in 2000.
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We have been down this road with Beetle before.
He fails to mention, or take into account, that a lot of the British drunks walk to the Pub (nightly) and stagger home, not driving so there is naturally going to a smaller incident of alcohol related driving statistics.
The USA might possibly have a higher percentage of vehicle owners, and we tend to be a highly mobile society.
No matter what country, drunking driving is a terrible thing, it causes many deaths of innocent people.
dago
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The fact remains that the 17,000+ alcohol related fatalities on American roads each year are considered preventable.
Considered preventable by who? MADD is a political group that wants to push the legal blood alcohol content for drivers down to 0%. I've already shown that there is no meaning to the term "alcohol related" in US accident statistics. So dig up something else and try again.
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If i find a slow driver in the left lane, i can usually revert to using the shoulder ;)
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OK back to tourists:
English: their driving is shocking, the pack campervan mentality is very trying. Glow in the dark skin often ruins a summers day.
Americans: their clothes. Gawdy, bright coloured, like tartan shorts with hawaiin shirts. Excessive use of hats and dark sunglasses. Try to tip and buy everbody off.
Germans: always travel in couples, totally in love, usually nature lovers. Excessively happy for a country that lost the war.
Japanese: pack hordes. Often overwhelm locations by combined tourist bus assaults and sticking together in large undividable groups. Further complicate matters by trying to communicate by nodding their head a lot and taking photos with excessively complicated cameras.
French: The guys are often arrogant, the women always mobbed by lustful Kiwi guys. Critical of everything (apparently France does everything better). Like the Americans they try to buy everything, unlike the Americans they try to buy it for nothing.
Australians: Once they open their mouth it all goes downhill from there.
Scots: Excessively drunk, never see a sober one.
There are some good tourists:
Swedes: often travel in pairs of hitchhiking chicks looking for summer jobs while wearing tight white halter tops and blue jean shorts.
Dutch: often travel in pairs of hitchhiking chicks looking for summer jobs while wearing tight white halter tops and blue jean shorts.
Canadians: Always happy and nice to everyone. Potential excessive use of drugs.
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Lots of tourists come to Arizona, I never thought much about them.... they are just tourists, nothing wrong with being a tourist.
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Originally posted by ra
Considered preventable by who? MADD is a political group that wants to push the legal blood alcohol content for drivers down to 0%. I've already shown that there is no meaning to the term "alcohol related" in US accident statistics. So dig up something else and try again.
I think it's fatuous to denounce MADD as your defence against the stats I have provided. MADD may be a political organisation within your parlance, but it should be obvious to any old pinhead that they are quoting stats derived from data collated by a government agency, in this case the Center for Disease Control. (I guess alcoholism is a disease).
Report from CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htm
In the above report, you will see that the figures for alcohol related deaths are pretty much as MADD quoted. Notice that the bold heading to the CDC document is "Impaired Driving". (Having a tipsy rear seat passenger is not a driving "impairment") Note also that the prevention strategies do not include offloading tipsy rear seat passengers in an attempt to massage the "alcohol related" figures. Indeed, there is no mention of passengers having any bearing on the statistics.
Cirrhosis of the Liver in America (http://www.stjohnsmercy.org/healthinfo/adult/liver/stats.asp)
You might want to check the above link: Over 26,000 people in the US die annually because of liver cirrhosis, and 80% of those deaths would be prevented if alcohol abuse was eliminated. In Britain, the figure is about 4,000. Source: Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fglobal%2F2003%2F07%2F24%2Fbralc24.xml)
Even scaling up the figures to reflect the disparity between the sizes of the US and UK populations, it is clear that America has a much worse alcohol problem than we do.
Lazs! I almost missed your troll. Well, we are communicating via computers, and indeed much of modern life is dependent on computers and microchips/integrated circuitry etc. I think you'll find that Japan was a world leader in this field of technology, and they drive on the left. :D
Here is a list (http://www.travel-library.com/general/driving/drive_which_side.html) of countries which says which side they drive on, and the history behind the reasons - for those wishing to stay on topic.
Oh, and Dago - you don't know crap about Britain, even if you have been here. I walk or use public transport if visiting a drinking establishment. If you're suggesting that Americans drive there because of being "a more mobile society" then they (and you) are even more stupid than I thought. I've backed up what I said with government stats. What backing do you have to support your slagging off of Britain?
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Yawn.
they are quoting stats derived from data collated by a government agency
MADD is counting on pinheads to assume that "alcohol related" means "caused by alcohol".
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Originally posted by ra
Yawn.
MADD is counting on pinheads to assume that "alcohol related" means "caused by alcohol".
Forget MADD. Focus on CDC. Your only defence now is to try to undermine the authenticity of the FACTS. Face it. America has a far worse alcohol problem than the UK, bad though that is. That fact is reflected in US alcohol related/caused road deaths - more than 30 times the number that we have here, and the number of DUI arrests is in the region of 1.5 million annually. Geez, I even included hospital stats about cirrhosis of the liver - more than six times as many deaths caused by that than occur here for the same reason, and even if you scale up the UK tally to allow for population discrepancy, the number deaths from cirrhosis of the liver per capita in the US is 1.6 times greater than in the UK, and 75-80% of those are caused by alcohol abuse.
What more proof do you want?
I suppose next you'll be saying that the highest incidence of liver cirrhosis is amongst poor blacks, gangs and ethnic minorities and therefore doesn't matter. :rolleyes:
Look, ra. You're on the canvas with this one. You're a good manipulator, but you're not that good.
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.......your slagging off of Britain?
You do that well enough, without any help from 'mericans.
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Japan invented computers? Well... I guess they are important then.. especially if you add that they put a man on the moon first and created the space shuttle and all.
so... we would agree... japan is the most important country that drives on the wrong side of the road?
lazs
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Beetle why can't you stay on topic? This thread is about the UK being the road rage capital of the world according to the BBC report.
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Vulcan, that stuff was very funny. :D
dago
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Originally posted by -ammo-
In the car were four big looking men, and they are drunk, stupid, and have no regard for my life whatsoever. I
Last winter I was driving home from the office on County Road 83 (a four lane divided highway here on Long Island) right around 6:15 PM. We had just had a major snowstorm that dumped 34" of snow on top of 8-10" already on the ground. Traffic was moderate and people were driving slower than usual due to slick patches and an unplowed shoulder. I watched an incident develop in front of me between a silver Pathfinder and a early 1990s Chevrolet Impala station wagon. It looked like the Impala cut off the Pathfinder with a really stupid lane change. The female driver of the Pathfinder gave the Impala a little beep of the horn. This apparently enraged the driver of the Impala who them tried to force the Pathfinder off the road into the snow berm. The lady in the Pathfinder then swerved around the Chevy, and passed it using slower traffic as a pick. Following just inches off her bumper, the nut job in the Impala squeezed between the Nissan and a Toyota Camry and once again tried to force the young woman off the road. Again the Pathfinder got ahead when a big Ford F-350 pickup with a plow blocked the Impala's progress. As the Chevy raced by the big Ford, the F-350 driver deftly steered to his left, his plow striking the right rear fender of the Impala. With that little bump, the Chevy fishtailed twice and spun off the road backwards, through the snow berm and down into the deep culvert between the north and south side of the highway. A huge rooster-tail of snow showed the Impala's location until it came to a rest, hopelessly buried in neck-deep snow. Everyone, including the F-350 driver continued on as if nothing happened. All of us, I'm sure, enjoying a rare bit of successful "highway justice". The Pickup eased alongside the Pathfinder and the driver gave the terrified lady a friendly wave.
Oh, that Impala remained where it came to a rest for more than a week.....
My regards,
Widewing