Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Stiglr on August 09, 2000, 01:57:00 PM
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Congratulations, HT and crew, for the release of the terrain editor. That's exciting. Seeing vermillion's new Med terrain was truly thrilling as well (were there really THAT many bases on Tunisia and Sicily???)
One question: can we expect a couple of new terrain textures soon? Namely:
Desert, desert rocky, defoliated winter, winter snow? These at the least, then maybe some seasonal variants of the ones we have now (fall woods, defoliated woods), lagoon (aqua) water?
My first blush when I saw the great new terrain setup was to look East to Russia and Finland. But these ain't gonna look right with European spring landscapes. Neither will a "European" North Africa. Can we expect these in the near future?
Great work! I mean it!!!
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Still calling Aces High 'Aces hobbled' there Stig? :/
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Rip,
Lay off a little. I've read Stig's posts over at AGW as well, and he has a right to post them. Why criticize a guy for posting something positive on this board?
When new developments happen, people's perspective or opinions can sometimes change, because the product has changed. I think Stigler should be allowed that right, without getting static for it.
Also, don't know if it will happen or not, but WBIII could cause some perspectives over here to change as well. One never knows.
Cobra
Musketeer Escadrille
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I believe HTC stated that textures would be user created and submitted to HTC for approval for use in MA or SEA or HA or TA. So, basically what textures you want you have to make. That was the last thing I heard.
-SW
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Stiglr, yes there were that many bases in Tunisia and Sicily.
Actually I have included one or two bases (will have to go check) for gameplay reasons, but for the most part, yes they are a historical airfield layout. And I may have even left out a few bases in Sicily and Italy because I was running up close to my maximum number of objects.
Now the Vehicle bases are situated to simulate the land battles. So if the field name starts with a V, for instance V41, that was arbitrarily placed to simulate the British armored drive up the coastal road to Tunisia, from Alexandria.
But all but a few (out of 40 total in the terrain) of the airfields are historically located.
I got them from a book called "Atlas of World War II" by Richard Natkiel and Robin Sommer. ISBN#: 1-890221-20-1
Its an excellent source of maps of all the major theaters of battle.
I picked mine up right after Christmas last year and got it on clearance for $8-$9 dollars..
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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It's ok, ripsnort; I can take a little ribbing. I call it like I see it for both AH and WB, and I stand behind what I say.
"Hobbled" is in reserve right now, pending the upcoming FM changes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As for textures, how are we to create these? The TE doesn't have those tools in it, does it? If so, is there a target file format to texture files, or a preferred software to create them? Would one use a 3D program or something like Photoshop??
If anyone can provide guidelines, I wouldn't mind taking a stab at it, actually....
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Same questions I have too Stigler. I wish I would win the Lottery so I can devout time to trying it out!
-Westy
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Yes, we are planning on using player submitted textures for terrains, which will of course be subject to approval by the art department. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) H2H terrains won't need to be submitted to us, but anything used in our arenas will need to be approved.
There will be instructions on how to make textures in the future. You can use whatever you want to make them, but they must end up being tileable, square, and 256 color bitmaps. I used Photoshop to make all the textures for the terrain. It has a filter called Offset that will make it easy for you to create a seamless tile. More info will be coming soon.
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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"Touch my tooter, smoocher!" - Ween
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD
[This message has been edited by SUPERFLY (edited 08-09-2000).]
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Stigler, Pyro provides some info on this issue here:
bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum55/HTML/000016.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum55/HTML/000016.html)
Sounds like you will get your chance to try your hand at texture building.
[This message has been edited by Ogre (edited 08-09-2000).]
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What about Bryce 3D? It does some pretty fantastic sceneries, and has built-in textures for the purpose, including varies shades of grass, water, rock, etc.
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Cool, keep the info coming.
I'd imagine Bryce would be for closeup landscapes, but I could be wrong.....
The possibilites look pretty good, no?
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"Build it and they will come" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Frodo
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Anyone gonna build us Wittman Regional Airport (Oshkosh, WI)? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Ichi
Oink! Oink! To War!
The Flying Pigs
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Yeah, you guys lay off stiglr.
I mean look at this here positive insightful typing he had on AGW recently...
Stiglr
Member
Posts: 2573
Registered: Nov 98
posted August 07, 2000 12:10 PM
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Yer missing fletch's point. Hyperbolic, yes, but spot-on.
The AH vehicle system is dweebery incarnate. You've got tanks modelled with arcade abstraction, rolling across nearly featureless terrain....and one dweeb who's ready to publish a "Doc Doom"-style treatise on how to take out planes with a tank main gun. (no disrespect meant to doom on this, mind you).
It's stupid, it's mindless, it's catering to the Sgt. Rock, "cool, let's just go blow stuff up" crowd. It's ludicrous. No backbone whatsoever.
I agree, HT and his minions wimped out and just created another of the same ol' same ol'. And the "consumer battles" he chose to fight? A bone of a MC202 for the Italian whiners, and a P47 outfit for the Brazilians. (sarcasm) Wow, that's real progress (/sarcasm)
So far, the sim developers (ien included) have had NO backbone to create the kind of sim that we all deserve: one that runs more like a real war. More realism, less choice, since we have proven time and again that given more choice we choose to "game the game" and create dweebery with it.
I mean, give the guy a break even! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<g,d,r>
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That's why you'll never be taken seriously on this BBS, stig. Whenever you say anything positive about AH, you come across as having a cheesy looking grin whilst holding that venom club behind your back.
You think you "tell it like it is", when in fact you have your own hidden agenda, and it taints your opinions. Don't think for a moment that most of us care what Stiglr thinks. I'm sure as soon as HTC makes one little boo-boo somewhere, you'll be the first one there to trash them.
And, while I agree with your "realism" crusade, I don't think the majority here on the AH BBS would stand for the arrogance that comes with it.
At least Lazs is consistently negative, you always know where things stand with him.
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 08-10-2000).]
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Suprise suprise! The fire djust ignited.
Alot of what stigler said in the quoted post is true.
Before you all who have built your new HTC shrine at home come flaming please note that he talks bad about IEN (warbirds) in it aswell.
Waaa Waaa he talked bad about AH over at AGW dont let him in!!!
<G,D,R>
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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Stigi rips iEN as hard or harder than HTC. One recent title of a thread addressed to iEN comes to mind... "MORONS!!!"
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Funked said:
Stigi rips iEN as hard or harder than HTC. One recent title of a thread addressed to iEN comes to mind... "MORONS!!!"
Look, for all you "Defenders of Stiglr"(tm) out there. I have no problem, per se, with what he says. His heart is in the right place. I have a problem with how he says it. Many people have said exactly the same thing as Stiglr on here as well as on AGW. The difference is, they use a little bit of tact.
Go ahead, and just try to convince me that Stiglr has a positive influence on HTC or iEN.
I'm no HTC cheerleader, but I believe in any debate to try to see things from my opponents' perspective. Stiglr believes in his opinions, and gleefully tosses aside any attempt at rational dialogue.
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 08-10-2000).]
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I get really tired hearing complaints like Stiglr's about how they want this or that to add to the realism and a sim sucks because it just doesn't have all the bells and whistles (paraphrasing).
First, these people should be glad they even have these to choose from. The technology here is amazing. Does anyone remember the wire-frame WWII arena in Microsoft Flight Simulator and the "dots" that represented the enemy? It wasn't that long ago.
Second, these things take time to develop. It is obvious the whiners aren't programmers or they might appreciate some of what is involved here and what it takes to bring this stuff to term. It is a lot of work and attention to detail.
I don't know what these people are thinking when they blast away like this. I'm not saying just be grateful and shut your mouth. Wish lists are good to have. But for Christ's sake, quit the freaking squeaking until you code something - anything - of substance.
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If you are trying to train a dog to come to you when you call it, do you whip it when it finally does (because it didn't come fast enough)? If you do, all you do is teach it to stay far away.
If someone comes here from another sim and acts respectfully isn't it better to take it at face value? Respect the opinion if it is tendered respectfully and it may re-enforce the desired behavior. If he then turns and bites you it reflects poorly on him, not you.
I'm not saying there isn't cause for the hard feelings, but someone has to be big enough to take the first step. Further, who are we to drive away potential customers for HTC? I read AGW once in a while, too. I have seen some softening on the part of many opinions concerning AH lately. We cannot alienate potential customers just because of opinions expressed in the past. Opinions change. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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HT pushed all his chips forward(and there were a lot of them) to create this company. Not something I would consider spineless, in fact I think it's pretty ballsy to enter this market when he did and have the confidence to believe that not only could we compete, but prevail over time and with only a handful of people.
To those who truly believe they have the idea for the perfect game and a strong market for it, I think they are doing themselves a great disservice not to act on it. Scrape together all the money you can, borrow or get investments from family and friends to seed it, and set to work on raising the capital and getting the talent to make it work. It sounds daunting and it is, but it's not impossible. Look at how most entrepeneurs started. The rewards will certainly be there in the end if you're right and make it work.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Kieren Said:
but someone has to be big enough to take the first step.
Anytime Stiglr feels the urge to get over his hostility and take that first step(for real) I'll be the first one to shake his hand and buy him a round....or two...or five.
One positive post, however, doesn't convince me that his tune has changed.
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Originally posted by banana:
Kieren Said: Anytime Stiglr feels the urge to get over his hostility and take that first step(for real) I'll be the first one to shake his hand and buy him a round....or two...or five.
Ditto. I'm a 'forgive and forget' person, with one exception...MG. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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What I want to know is, how did this go from a civilized conversation about custom textures for the terrain editor to "We hate stiglr?"
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
I'm going to take my ball and go home... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"Touch my tooter, smoocher!" - Ween
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD
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Blame me Super, I get sick and tired of hearing him call it "Aces Hobbled", its disrespect for you and your co-workers, but then again, it ain't none of my business, so please accept my apologies.
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Renfield-
Does anyone remember the wire-frame WWII arena in Microsoft Flight Simulator and the "dots" that represented the enemy? It wasn't that long ago.
That was roughly 22 years ago... Time flies huh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I agree 100% with yer post though... well said.
On the one hand, I see the wisdom of Kieren's stance in that we really ought to take the comments at face value and accept that people's minds can change. However, I can't help but think that these kinds of people will be the first to jump all over HTC if the development doesn't go just exactly as they personally wish... with all the bratty sense of entitlement that goes with it. I don't think anyone wants this board to mirror the kind of vitriol displayed daily on that <cough> other board. If that means we hold eachother responsible for our words and deeds, so be it.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 08-10-2000).]
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"To those who truly believe they have the idea for the perfect game and a strong market for it, I think they are doing themselves a great disservice not to act on it"
No need to act on it, someone allredy did.
'Something great is about to happen' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 08-10-2000).]
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Originally posted by Maniac:
"To those who truly believe they have the idea for the perfect game and a strong market for it, I think they are doing themselves a great disservice not to act on it"
No need to act on it, someone allredy did.
'Something great is about to happen' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
"Something wonderful is about to happen" -- Dave, the Starchild. 2010. right?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Jig
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Interesting debate.
It IS true that I throw carp equally. I am just as critical of iEN and the things I feel they do wrong as I am of the things I think are wrong in AH.
The people I piss off the most are the "aw shucks" crowd of people who can't stand to see anyone have a strong opinion about anything. There has to be all this eggshell-walking, qualifying, wussy language around everything. Well, those folks can bite me. I don't have time for it. I call 'em as I see 'em. I admit to being sarcastic a lot of the time, it's just my style. More interesting than a whole paragraph of IMHOs, "...or maybe not", or whatever hoohah. But, if you look past the humor (yes, it is a form of humor), you can see that I usually *do* have a point, whether you agree with it or not. And I don't demand that anyone agree with it, just because I state it firmly. It's just "one man's opinion". Take it with a huge grain of salt, agree, disagree, post, move on.
Now, as to the "YOU code something" whinge: you can bite me, too. Just because I've never run a government doesn't give me the right to complain about politicians? That's the weakest reasoning yet. I don't normally get into "code-level" second-guessing, but I think I am entitled to an opinion over what features I want to see, and what kind of direction (or lack of same) I want strat to take.
And banana, why do I have to have an ulterior motive to say, WTG on the terrain editor??? I'm not joined to iEN at the hip, if that's what you're implying. I have said before, and I'll say it again, if AH had (IMO) satisfactory solutions to the things I cared about *most*, I might have been over here a long time ago. I still reserve the right to monitor its progress and comment on it, too. Whether you take me seriously, banana, I care not a whit (speaking of arrogance...)
That being said, I'd ALSO like to return to talking about textures and soon-to-come maps.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Stiglr (edited 08-10-2000).]
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Hey Stigi HTC fixed the collision code. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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t
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There has to be all this eggshell-walking, qualifying, wussy language around everything. Well, those folks can bite me. I don't have time for it. I call 'em as I see 'em. I admit to being sarcastic a lot of the time, it's just my style. More interesting than a whole paragraph of IMHOs...
Hey Stigler, grow up. It's called being civilized. Havin' some respect for the folks around you. <sigh> I don't know why this seems to take an enourmous amount of effort on some people's part. If you can't post without showing a bit of class, at least spare us all and show some gawdamned restraint.
This is IMHO, slugger. Deal with it.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 08-10-2000).]
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Yada yada yada, whatever, Stig. We're both opinionated people, and we probably agree on a lot of "what is missing or wrong with today's flight sims."
We just disagree on how the war should be fought. I prefer tact and constructive criticism, while you prefer biting satire and stinging sarcasm. Maybe between the two of us, something will work.
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What nash said. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Makes ya wonder why some people think they gotta be some kinda bada*s over the internet. Are they really like this in real life? Do they get kicked around at work or something? Makes ya wonder.
I, myself, am content with my real world self and don't think I need to come to some internet BBS and be *Mr. rough & tumble* about a WWII flight simm game.
What a line of bull. When you get to be a man you learn to treat people with dignity & respect whether its face to face or you're hiding behind your monitor.
Nothing personal stigler just trying to be a *straight shooter* like yourself. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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The people I piss off the most are the "aw shucks" crowd of people who can't stand to see anyone have a strong opinion about anything.
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Its not that your opinions are strong. Most peoples are. What has seperated you heretofor from the quality poster is your disrespectful tone.
Show some respect so that your concerns and criticisms gain strength and have a reasonable chance of consideration!
Yeager
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It's stupid, it's mindless, it's catering to the Sgt. Rock, "cool, let's just go blow stuff up" crowd.
Hey, I resent that statement! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<Pulls pin on "pineapple" grenade, tosses it into Stig's latrine & runs>
A big hello to the Mad Bombers & fellow Knights. Hope you are giving the Bish pure hell, especially Hang & Co. Taking a break for now but expect to be back in the air soon. See ya' then!
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How sad. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
One of the most outspoken critics of the game comes in here with (IMO) heartfelt congratulations on a great new innovation on something that raises the bar (again) for flight sims, and the FIRST post in response is to dump JP-4 on him and toss a match in.
So much for the myth of "flight sim brotherhood" eh? Pretty slippery footing up there on that moral high ground, I guess.
Nice to see how "welcome" critics are over here. I noticed funked flying in the BoB "over there" the other day. Seemed like folks were actually glad to see him too. Good thing he never criticizes WB or they might stop the scenario and organize a dweeb hunt (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Kudos on the terrain editor. Gimme some water and an aircraft carrier next. I'm gettin kinda itchy to do my free trial, but I wanna give it a fair shot with a few more features and planes. Guess I better think up a new call sign too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY:
Yes, we are planning on using player submitted textures for terrains...
(snipped)
OH MY GOD! I love this thing! Thanks, guys!
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Uh Voss..
Please stop trying to hijack this thread.
Stay on topic will ya?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Oh, okay. I have suspicions of a dual personality/second persona present here. (Reaches out with the Force). Yes, most definately.
Freedom of speech, etc.
Remember, you are a guest on this system.
Out...
[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 08-11-2000).]
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Hehe Voss, I was kinda makin' a joke... albeit a pretty lame one. This thread had semi-deteriorated a ways back before you came along and posted ON-topic. <shrug>... I guess ya had to be there. I aint the Thread Police (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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A Warbirds zealot spat:
One of the most outspoken critics of the game comes in here with (IMO) heartfelt congratulations on a great new innovation on something that raises the bar (again) for flight sims, and the FIRST post in response is to dump JP-4 on him and toss a match in.
So much for the myth of "flight sim brotherhood" eh? Pretty slippery footing up there on that moral high ground, I guess.
Nice to see how "welcome" critics are over here
Hypocrite! reading AGW for the past few months since I left Warbirds I have seen no end of abuse given to players from AH posting comments on development and so forth, there has been alot of mudslinging both sides so to come here and spout such claptrap is unbelievable. For what its worth Stiglr has only received a mild ribbing from players who read AGW and remember all his little spite fileld posts about AH.
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Originally posted by banana:
We just disagree on how the war should be fought. I prefer tact and constructive criticism, while you prefer biting satire and stinging sarcasm.
Interesting enough, this generally determines how successful and healthy a person is in life. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I don't know...I've met plenty successful, healthy, amazinhunks in my lifetime.
Lizking
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Padlock? Anyone?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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FYI Stig, with comments like this, you can expect to be flamed over here.
Stigler: "The AH vehicle system is dweebery incarnate. You've got tanks modelled with arcade abstraction, rolling across nearly featureless terrain....and one dweeb who's ready to publish a "Doc Doom"-style treatise on how to take out planes with a tank main gun. (no disrespect meant to doom on this, mind you).
It's stupid, it's mindless, it's catering to the Sgt. Rock, "cool, let's just go blow stuff up" crowd. It's ludicrous. No backbone whatsoever.
I agree, HT and his minions wimped out and just created another of the same ol' same ol'. And the "consumer battles" he chose to fight? A bone of a MC202 for the Italian whiners, and a P47 outfit for the Brazilians.
(sarcasm) Wow, that's real progress (/sarcasm)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-14-2000).]