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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GrinBird on September 22, 2000, 04:07:00 AM

Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: GrinBird on September 22, 2000, 04:07:00 AM
In another thread leonid came with a brilliant idea: If a pilot goes too violently into a blackout/redout or stays in it too long, the pilot wounded effect comes in. I dont think its needed to get a permanent pilot wounded effect as when the pilot gets shot.
 Just let the PW effect step in a single time after a heavy blackout, that will add realism and void ppl to use Blackout as a defensive maneuver.. the defender dont need to see anything when doing defensive maneuvers but the attacker needs to see if he wanna hit the pesky blackout dancer.

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GrinBird
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: LLv34_Camouflage on September 22, 2000, 09:03:00 AM
Good idea.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Camo

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Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: popeye on September 22, 2000, 09:13:00 AM
As long as it is "realistic", get's my vote.

popeye
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: eagl on September 22, 2000, 09:27:00 AM
I suspect that gameplay will be the ruling factor.  The blackout G load is already pretty low, since HTC has modelled WWII pilots in addition to WWII planes.  It's not exactly a macho thing, but lots of T-37 instructors around here routinely pull 6.5 G's (no G-suit) during our non-student training sorties just to keep our G tolerance up.  

It's frustrating to fly the game with real aircraft limits, my own skills, but be limited to the G tolerances of the typical 1940's fighter pilot just because they didn't know how to strain back then.  It's one of the big artificialities of the game IMHO.  

Then again, they could mod the planes so we can't use any tactics except those in the old USN and USAAF pursuit manuals...  Any attempt to fly in tactical spread formation for example, would result in a spontaneous death or blackout.  As long as we're being limited, lets really do it right  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)


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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
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Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Ripsnort on September 22, 2000, 09:37:00 AM
Eagl:  
Quote
It's frustrating to fly the game with real aircraft limits, my own skills, but be limited to the G tolerancesof the typical 1940's fighter pilot just because they didn't know how to strain back then. It's one of the
big artificialities of the game IMHO.

I agree with Eagl <S> ..I think G factor limitation for gameplay immersion is fine the way it is, think about new folks to the online sims coming into this world...

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[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-22-2000).]
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: popeye on September 22, 2000, 11:04:00 AM
"t's frustrating to fly the game with real aircraft limits, my own skills, but be limited to the G tolerances of the typical 1940's fighter pilot just because they didn't know how to strain back then."

Maybe RW could be configured to detect "grunts".  (Imagine the comments from our wives.)    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Seriously, I think the G limit is a separate issue from simulating the "disorientation" caused by rapid neg/pos G maneuvers.  Since I'm not a RL pilot, I gave a qualified yes vote to Leonid's idea, based on the assumption that rapid neg/pos G maneuvers WOULD be disorienting.

popeye

Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Vermillion on September 22, 2000, 11:05:00 AM
Ah but here is the crux of the issue.

Eagl, or Rip,

How many pilots do you know (today, 10 years ago, or 55 years ago) that can do do a hard positive pullup (say 5-7G's), instantly (reversal time of 1.5 or less) push back down into a negative situation (usually more than -3G's), reverse upwards again into another positive pullup (same strength 5-7 G's), and then do that sequence repeatedly for say 5 times?

There may be a few dedicated stunt pilots that could do it, but I bet they are few and far between.

But this manuever is very common in WB's and is starting to become common in AH.

Which is a better situation? Artifical Limits or Unrealistic Manuevers?

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: GrinBird on September 22, 2000, 11:38:00 AM
Hey Guys dont make it a thread about G-limits, its not. The pilotwounded effect should be added to avoid ppl to ignore the blackout and dance like crazy when they are attacked.
Imagine that you are in a good lag pursuit on a guys six, and then he suddenly takes a very sharp turn you cant follow without blacking out. He is blacking out for sure but he dont care at all because its not him who gotta flollow anybody. But you who wanna shoot him gotta be able  to see him to follow him or to shoot him.
I am used to a similar effect from EAW, (Hey who said that EAW is an EZ-game?) where its part of 1v1 fighting skill to keep the fight on the edge of blackout. You can fly with tunnelvison in EAW, but if you go into total blackout, you will loose control of plane and if you are really rough you can loose control permanently. Blackouts are  modelled really good in EAW, but I have seen it overdone in a another game Fighter Squadron SDOE, where Blackouts are modelled so it gets annoying. The trick is to balance it so it wont get annoying, and make sure that the effect comes gradually.

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GrinBird

[This message has been edited by GrinBird (edited 09-22-2000).]
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: dudedog on September 22, 2000, 03:16:00 PM
You guys realise that people who use the manuever are dweebs blowing their E. Why would we want to prevent them from doing that? Just pull a hi-yoyo and wait for a good shot, sheesh.
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Citabria on September 22, 2000, 03:45:00 PM
disable autopilot when blacked out...

Ive saved myself with autopilot a few times when I pulled to hard and blacked out for 20 seconds or whatever it was

i should have augered but didnt thx to autopilot which can be toggled even after you black out and controls lock up  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Spinout on September 22, 2000, 04:00:00 PM
Along the same lines, how realistic is it to be able to crane your virtual neck around to check your hi-6 while pulling 5+ Gs?

I've never felt anything close to 5Gs so i wouldnt know. It just seems like you'd need a neck like Arnie's to do that.
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: air_guard on September 22, 2000, 05:14:00 PM
LOL its still a game  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
buy a plane or a join the airforce if not satisfied hehe.
we can only get simulated g effects here.

airguard
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Vermillion on September 22, 2000, 05:24:00 PM
Spinout, I got to fly an AT6 Texan and in some of manuevers we pulled up to 4.5 G's, and I was able to "crane my neck around to check hi 6.

I specifically checked, since we were having the same type of discussion in WB's at the time. And I am a very average guy.


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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Spinout on September 22, 2000, 07:30:00 PM
Cool, thanks Verm. Now i wont feel bad about pulling those hi-g rolling scossors anymore.
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Sundog on September 23, 2000, 12:27:00 PM
I think Leonid's idea would be an excellent addition. I also agree with Citabria on disabling AP when blacked out. Of course, I would also like to see `gray outs' added as well.
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: milnko on September 24, 2000, 06:33:00 PM
Check out this thread, makes ya wonder if this guys had permanent blood-shot eyes from the "G's" he pulls all the time.

 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/005533.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/005533.html)

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Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Igloo on September 24, 2000, 07:40:00 PM
I think that auto pilot should be disabled, all control surfaces as well.  The pilot wounds should kick in if you're in blackout for over 10 seconds, still pulling Gs.  

You can still control your plane while blacked out.  I've landed my plane several times while in total blackout from wounds.  Gotta fix this.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)


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Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Igloo on September 24, 2000, 07:44:00 PM
Hrmm, images arn't working.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)

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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York (http://www.trueorigins.net/411rcaf)

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[This message has been edited by Igloo (edited 09-24-2000).]
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Hangtime on September 25, 2000, 01:09:00 AM
Game reads 2 forms of blackout I believe.. the 'wounded BO' leaves the A/C controllable..

But the sustained 'G' BO will 'disconnect' your controls.. you don't get the plane back till about a half second after the black fades off. You need to have been increasing the pull while in complete BO for this to occur.

My FE displays BO effects as an increasing tunnel vison to black screen a 'g' loads build. I try to keep the oppostion in the middle of that tunnel; and avoid going black screen of any longer than 1 or 2 sec to avoid control disconnect.

Hang
Title: Blackout - A punt for Leonids Idea!
Post by: Igloo on September 25, 2000, 01:14:00 AM
Hangtime, are you sure?  I've pulled a few split-S' where I black out 3/4 of the way through and it looks like I'll hit the ground.  I then black out and steer my plane to what I believe is a safe spot where I will no longer be in danger of hitting the ground (while blacked out).  Since I don't hit the ground (while still blacked out) I assume I made it and level off to allow the Gs to lower as I regain vision, only to find the plane is exactly where I steered it while blacked out.  Or am I just lucky?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York (http://www.trueorigins.net/411rcaf)

"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]