Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on September 03, 2003, 04:58:44 PM

Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Ripsnort on September 03, 2003, 04:58:44 PM: http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html

Quote
The 2003 Lemon List

Thanks to the efforts of the Center for Auto Safety, we are able to provide you with the vehicle complaints on file with the National Highway for Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). Each year, thousands of Americans call their government to register complaints about their vehicles. The federal government collects this information but has never released it to the general public. The complaint index is based on a ratio of the number of complaints for each vehicle to the sales of that vehicle. NHTSA can only rate vehicles whose models haven't changed since 2001; newer cars do not have enough data. For more information on the NHTSA consumer complaint database, click here.

MODEL COMPLAINT INDEX RATIO
Ford Escape 24,916
Toyota Prius 14,625
Oldsmobile Aurora 14,084
Ford Excursion 12,038
Mitsubishi Eclipse 11,138
Ford Focus 9,797
Lincoln LS 9.648
Chevrolet Blazer 9.165
Subaru Legacy 8,045
Jeep Grand Cherokee 8,002
Audi A6 7,874
Suzuki Grand Vitara 6,553
Volkswagen Passat 6,504
Pontiac Aztek 6,145
Dodge Dakota 6,027
Toyota RAV4 5,951
Honda Civic 5,843
Subaru Forrester 5,761
Buick LeSabre 5,666
Volkswagen Jetta 5,662
Ford Windstar 5,530
Dodge Neon 5,406
Dodge Ram Pickup 5,295
Oldsmobile Silhouette 5,289
Toyota Highlander 5,276
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Raubvogel on September 03, 2003, 05:01:10 PM: You would think that the Aztek would have a higher rating, because I am sure that Pontiac gets flooded with complaints of "everyone points at me and laughs."
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Ripsnort on September 03, 2003, 05:02:36 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Raubvogel
You would think that the Aztek would have a higher rating, because I am sure that Pontiac gets flooded with complaints of "everyone points at me and laughs."

LOL!

Whats worse is....every driver I've seen driving an Aztec, or one of those new Honda's that look like a bread box...well, frankly, they're ugly. (Uglier than me, that says alot)
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Ripsnort on September 03, 2003, 05:07:23 PM: Incidently, I've always made it a habit to check this website when shopping for a particular model.
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/yr.html
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: gofaster on September 04, 2003, 10:20:30 AM: Wow, Ford has 3 in the Top Ten.

Once again, at Ford, Quality really isn't Job One.

I'm surprised Toyota is rated #2. Then again, it is their bottom-feeder offering.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: GtoRA2 on September 04, 2003, 10:37:17 AM: It does not suprise me at all that toyota is number 2. My moms 2000 camry is a pile of crap, its under warranty yet she still had to pay for new shocks, even though the strut towers where bad and the dealer admitted thats whay caused that shocks to go. Toyota sucks, they are riding the rep they mad 15 years ago.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Mini D on September 04, 2003, 10:51:31 AM: Nice to see pretty much all of the SUVs make the list. Just wait till they try taking them off-road.

MiniD
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Ripsnort on September 04, 2003, 11:16:27 AM: We take ours off road a couple times a year. No problems. But then again, its not on the lemon list either.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Monk on September 04, 2003, 12:07:02 PM: Rip,
do you get it airborne, if not it ain't OFFROAD.;)
Title: I made my 2000 jeep wrangler go airborne at pismo once....
Post by: GtoRA2 on September 04, 2003, 01:04:28 PM: lol Large pile of sea weed was hiding a log! lol hit it going like 35! It knocked the Jeep out of gear, a case of coke on the floor up on the seat and I had a bunch of change on the dash that I never saw again lol.

Did not hurt the Jeep though.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Ripsnort on September 04, 2003, 01:06:06 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Monk
Rip,
do you get it airborne, if not it ain't OFFROAD.;)

Not with this particular vehicle, but where it goes, no passenger car can go (7,000ft up to our Montana property)
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: BEVO on September 04, 2003, 01:54:32 PM: I've read quite a few places that the Hummer H2 had the absolute most customer complaints of any new car since they came out.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: ra on September 04, 2003, 02:06:53 PM: Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
I'm surprised Toyota is rated #2. Then again, it is their bottom-feeder offering.

The Prius is their hybrid, it's a little pricey to be a bottom-feeder. I guess the hybrid technology isn't quite here yet. Next year Ford is going to offer a hybrid Escape. The Escape is already on this list, imagine how fupped duck it's going to be when it has Ford's first attempt at a hybrid powerplant.

ra
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: SirLoin on September 04, 2003, 02:45:12 PM: Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
Wow, Ford has 3 in the Top Ten.

Once again, at Ford, Quality really isn't Job One.

I'm surprised Toyota is rated #2. Then again, it is their bottom-feeder offering.

At Ford......"Quantity is Job #1"

Surprised BMW not in there...Consumer Reports rates many of their vehicles as "Much Worse Than Average"
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Rude on September 04, 2003, 02:51:34 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Nice to see pretty much all of the SUVs make the list. Just wait till they try taking them off-road.

MiniD

Real SUV's aren't on that list....btw, are you one of those anti-SUV folks?
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Mini D on September 04, 2003, 03:00:38 PM: I own 2 '71 Chevy Blazers. I'm anti "what they are selling for an SUV and now every soccer mom on the face of the earth wants one of those pieces of ****... so they're making even more of them."

MiniD
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: medicboy on September 04, 2003, 06:59:09 PM: I have a Toyota 4-runner and I love it, no problems ever and it does better in the snow and ice than any other 4x4 I have ever drove!
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: rc51 on September 05, 2003, 01:03:39 AM: got a focus with 98k miles on it never been in the shop:)
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: lazs2 on September 05, 2003, 09:54:57 AM: I usually wait till the car it at least 20 years old to buy it so that all the bugs are worked out.

no... not the car model... the car.
lazs
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Rude on September 05, 2003, 10:20:52 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
I own 2 '71 Chevy Blazers. I'm anti "what they are selling for an SUV and now every soccer mom on the face of the earth wants one of those pieces of ****... so they're making even more of them."

MiniD

Are you married and if so, do you have kids?
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Mini D on September 05, 2003, 12:29:19 PM: Kids? Hmmmm... what does an SUV have over a Mini-Van? One's made for hauling kids and people around, the other you use "I have children" as an excuse for an excessive wastefull purchase.

Overweight, oversized, overpriced and bad fuel economy. All to do what most people could use a station wagon for.

MiniD
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on September 05, 2003, 01:01:26 PM: hah!! no Audi TT on the list....
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Dago on September 05, 2003, 01:36:21 PM: I drive a Toyota Tundra. I have been very happy with it, never had to take it in once (3 yrs old in a couple months).

dago
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Karnak on September 05, 2003, 02:48:21 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Dago
I drive a Toyota Tundra. I have been very happy with it, never had to take it in once (3 yrs old in a couple months).

dago

Exactly the same here.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: beet1e on September 06, 2003, 04:19:51 PM: Really surprised there are no Citroens in this list. Did you know that the French word "Citron" (close enough) means "Lemon" ?
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Nilsen on September 06, 2003, 04:26:43 PM: Cant see a Scott on the list so i guess not
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: gofaster on September 08, 2003, 08:24:25 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Nice to see pretty much all of the SUVs make the list. Just wait till they try taking them off-road.

MiniD

Yeah, ya know I was double-checking that list and I noticed that only 1 pickup truck was on there. Does that mean that if something breaks, the truck guys simply pull a wrench and some ductape out of the toolbox behind the cab and fix it, rather than take it to the dealer to gripe about it? :p
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: loser on September 08, 2003, 09:07:11 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Incidently, I've always made it a habit to check this website when shopping for a particular model.
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/yr.html

That site is great Rip. Found it awhile back when looking for recalls for my 99 Grand Am. 203 tech bulletins, mostly related to problems with my car.

My car has about half of the problems listed. And it has less than 30K miles on it. I cant believe how crappily cars are built now.

LOL.

My 1970 Plymouth Duster: 4 tech bulletins.
My 1999 Pontiac Grand Am: 203 tech bulletins.

I know there is more stuff to go wrong on the newer cars..but please. :rolleyes:
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2003, 09:23:46 AM: Quote
Originally posted by loser
That site is great Rip. Found it awhile back when looking for recalls for my 99 Grand Am. 203 tech bulletins, mostly related to problems with my car.

My car has about half of the problems listed. And it has less than 30K miles on it. I cant believe how crappily cars are built now.

LOL.

My 1970 Plymouth Duster: 4 tech bulletins.
My 1999 Pontiac Grand Am: 203 tech bulletins.

I know there is more stuff to go wrong on the newer cars..but please. :rolleyes:

Blame the Unions. I do. :)
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: FUNKED1 on September 08, 2003, 10:01:38 AM: General Motors is teh suq.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: gofaster on September 08, 2003, 10:03:38 AM: Quote
Originally posted by loser

My 1970 Plymouth Duster: 4 tech bulletins.
My 1999 Pontiac Grand Am: 203 tech bulletins.

I know there is more stuff to go wrong on the newer cars..but please. :rolleyes:

Blame it on the "global economy" where corporations shop their work out to the lowest bidder in underdeveloped countries.

The water isn't safe to drink, but its ok for manufacturing $30k automobiles?
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2003, 10:08:08 AM: Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
Blame it on the "global economy" where corporations shop their work out to the lowest bidder in underdeveloped countries.

Thats why I blame the American unions. They overpriced themselves. Work was outsourced.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Karnak on September 08, 2003, 06:37:57 PM: Dago's truck and mine were both built in a Union shop in Indiana.

It isn't the Unions (although in some cases they've hurt things), it is quality control. Quality, regardless of what Ford says, just doesn't seem to matter much to many companies.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: Gadfly on September 08, 2003, 06:50:09 PM: Karnak, that is where you are wrong. Quality matters very much to companies, quality means Dick to most employees. Is it all his fault? No, Managemnat is ignorant and must share the blame, but the ideal of most corporations IS for a quality product.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: loser on September 08, 2003, 07:53:29 PM: And thus the dilemma.

Underpay or overpay your employees. The result is the same.
Title: Are you driving a lemon? 2003 Lemon List
Post by: SirLoin on September 11, 2003, 10:09:42 AM: I work at Ford..Used to work at Boeing...Both unionized shops Ripsnort...One pushes quality,the other pushes 85 units per hour.