Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on September 04, 2003, 10:45:49 AM
-
Now this might hurt a bit. I suggest you advert your eyes if you think you cannot handle this.
FACT 1
1) Finland WAS allied with Germany during ww2.
2) Germany WAS ruled by Nazis in ww2.
The combination of 1) and 2) makes the following sentence TRUE:
Finland was allied with the nazis in ww2.
-
Nice cast there Horty. Great bait, sturdy line and a stout rod. It's just a matter of time now.... I know, I know .... Shhhhhhhh or I'll scare them away. :D
Heeeere fishy fishy.....
:D
-
Without us you would speak two languages: Swedish and Russian.
btw how is SKF doing in the stock markets?
-
So if Finland wieghs the same as a duck......
-
Well, actually I think there are some people here that dont want to accept fact nr 1 up there. It became obvious in the locked thread on Finland and Israel.
-
Originally posted by Staga
Without us you would speak two languages: Swedish and Russian.
And how do you figure that?
But besides, without us, you would still be living in holes in the ground worshipping some tree-god.
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
So if Finland wieghs the same as a duck......
she's a witch?
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
So if Finland wieghs the same as a duck......
LOL perfect timing MT :D
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
So if Finland wieghs the same as a duck......
Its made of wood?
-
in
-
hehe, poor Skuzzy, he probably has better things to do than police this board.
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
So if Finland wieghs the same as a duck......
...it's a very small rock. :)
-
Missed the 1st one...but I'm in.
-
a small piece of bread?
-
Originally posted by Staga
Without us you would speak two languages: Swedish and Russian.
You mean - Americans?!
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
And how do you figure that?
But besides, without us, you would still be living in holes in the ground worshipping some tree-god.
Is it why they were so happy in 1809?... Or just because they got autonomy and were not treated as animals?...
Frankly speaking, I will never say such things to any person from any nation from former Russian Empire / USSR.
-
Achtung! Zweden haz faund our little sekret, zwe now have zo move zo the zekond phaze! Bwahahahahaaaaa *evil laughter*
-
Originally posted by Boroda
You mean - Americans?!
Yeah, the Swedes helped the US fend off the Russians. Anytime you'd like a history lesson, let me know.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Its made of wood?
And therefore...?
-
Originally posted by AWMac
Nice cast there Horty. Great bait, sturdy line and a stout rod. It's just a matter of time now.... I know, I know .... Shhhhhhhh or I'll scare them away. :D
Heeeere fishy fishy.....
:D
Good bait, but it only attracts a small number. On this board it's like using river trout bait in a lake:)
-
Apples!
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Is it why they were so happy in 1809?... Or just because they got autonomy and were not treated as animals?...
Oh man...this is so tragic.
Boroda. The things you were taught in school about how russia/soviet union saved alot of people in the nations you invaded are not true. I'm sorry.
-
Originally posted by Tuomio
And therefore...?
Build a bridge out of it!
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Yeah, the Swedes helped the US fend off the Russians. Anytime you'd like a history lesson, let me know.
Please tell me about the battle of Yellow Waters (Zhelty Vody).
Oh, sorry, it's too difficult for most of modern History univercity students...
OK, this one is for elementary school, let me see if you'll tell me about the battle of Poltava. Hint: we are discussing Sweeden in history, aren't we?
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Oh man...this is so tragic.
Boroda. The things you were taught in school about how russia/soviet union saved alot of people in the nations you invaded are not true. I'm sorry.
Just go read something about Finland before and after 1809.
Did Finland have constitution before 1809? We are speaking about facts, eh?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Please tell me about the battle of Yellow Waters (Zhelty Vody).
Oh, sorry, it's too difficult for most of modern History univercity students...
OK, this one is for elementary school, let me see if you'll tell me about the battle of Poltava. Hint: we are discussing Sweeden in history, aren't we?
Apparently we're discussing American. Can't you follow your own conversation?
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Apparently we're discussing American. Can't you follow your own conversation?
American what we are discussing?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Just go read something about Finland before and after 1809.
Did Finland have constitution before 1809? We are speaking about facts, eh?
Was finland a part of Sweden before 1809?
Did sweden have a constitution before 1809?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
American what we are discussing?
I was right, you can't follow your own conversation. I thought quoting everything would help keep you on track. Apparently not.
-
Are you guys gonna do anything besides ask questions?
Do either of you know what this thread is about?
Has anyone seen the holy hand grenade of antioch?
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
Are you guys gonna do anything besides ask questions?
Do either of you know what this thread is about?
Has anyone seen the holy hand grenade of antioch?
You can't see it. It's been blown to little bits with the killer rabbit.
-
lol well this topic is useless.
BTW any good books on the Russians rewrite if history.
I really want to know how Boroda reaches his ideas
-
Wot? next to the rabbit?
-
I'm in twice............yeeesss!!
-
Originally posted by Trell
BTW any good books on the Russians rewrite if history.
Is it English language?
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Was finland a part of Sweden before 1809?
Did sweden have a constitution before 1809?
1) Yes.
2) Don't know. Let me look.
Let me rephrase: did Finland have it's own constitution before 1809?
-
This is too rich. A SWEDE airing the dirty laundry of another country's conduct during WW2. Pur-leaze.
-
Comrade Boroda, if it looks like Pravda and smells like Pravda.....
:D
in
-
Originally posted by Martlet
I was right, you can't follow your own conversation. I thought quoting everything would help keep you on track. Apparently not.
The language that you guys use is very different from what I was taught at school.
You said:
"Apparently we're discussing American"
as a reply to my sentence:
"Hint: we are discussing Sweeden in history, aren't we?"
So, can you please tell me "American WHAT" we are discussing?
Do you understand what you type yourself? Or is it just a direct flow of consciousness?
-
"Apparently we're discussing American"
"Apparently we're discussing American"
What is so hard to follow Boroda?
:D
-
Yes, we were allied with nazis (if you wanna say it so) becouse it was less worse.
Yes, we were part of sweden before 1809 (but whats so good about it?)
Yes, we had our own constitution after 1809, or atleast almost, ruskies didnt really cared about us. Except the emperor Nikolai something didnt like that Finland was automony(sp?).
So stop whining :D
We still win you swedes at anything ;)
-
Originally posted by Boroda
The language that you guys use is very different from what I was taught at school.
You said:
"Apparently we're discussing American"
as a reply to my sentence:
"Hint: we are discussing Sweeden in history, aren't we?"
So, can you please tell me "American WHAT" we are discussing?
Do you understand what you type yourself? Or is it just a direct flow of consciousness?
You said:
You mean - Americans?!
in response to Staga's comment. Try to follow your own cheap jabs.
-
And the Lord did grin.
And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruitbats, and larks.....
In
-
This thread is juat a heap of confusion.
Let me take the opportunity to note that not all swedes shares the opinion of Hortlund (that goes for many issues).
I believe Staga has a point. Had finland fallen would Stalin had stopped ? Would he have gone after the Swedish iron ore crucially important to Germany ? Would Stalin respected Swedish 'neutrality' marching on Norway ?
Could Sweden have become an other eastern block state ?
If Stalin 'liberated' Sweden?possibly.
-
Originally posted by scout
Could Sweden have become an other eastern block state ?
If Stalin 'liberated' Sweden?possibly.
Lots of very weird decisions were taken in WW2, atleast it looks like it when you can see everybodys cards now. Probably sweden would've had to fought like Finns did to keep their independence.
In what state were the swedish coastal defences in ww2? Did they have any?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Is it English language?
Yes I am hoping there is some in english.
-
Originally posted by scout
I believe Staga has a point. Had finland fallen would Stalin had stopped ? Would he have gone after the Swedish iron ore crucially important to Germany ? Would Stalin respected Swedish 'neutrality' marching on Norway ?
Could Sweden have become an other eastern block state ?
If Stalin 'liberated' Sweden?possibly.
Finland was defeated in 1940. I just don't understand how did it help Stalin to conquer Sweden or Norway?
-
Finland turned me into a newt!
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Finland was defeated in 1940. I just don't understand how did it help Stalin to conquer Sweden or Norway?
Oxymoron
-
Originally posted by mora
Oxymoron
Exactly.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Now this might hurt a bit. I suggest you advert your eyes if you think you cannot handle this.
FACT 1
1) Finland WAS allied with Germany during ww2.
2) Germany WAS ruled by Nazis in ww2.
The combination of 1) and 2) makes the following sentence TRUE:
Finland was allied with the nazis in ww2.
Bahhh the title was so promising and then :rolleyes: only 1 FACT and 2 Points (btw. arent these 2 FACTS then?).
Hortman u can do better!
-
lol @ gscholz, good analogy ;)
-
what Finns do last couple weeks? everyone jumping on them
@Boroda dont forget great plan to liberate whole world from bad capitalists;)
-
Originally posted by ramzey
what Finns do last couple weeks? everyone jumping on the
Well.. lets see.. I tipped off Wolfie with a sarcastic phrase, which has been used over and over again by pro-bush side and he obviously isn't admitting he mistook it, so hes having his jihad on me.
Then Hortlund is a swede and well.. finns and swedes do indeed have a very warm relations beneath the surface.
Sort of like US and Canada, if you know what I mean?
Anyway, personally I have no problems if people likes to say finns were allied with the nazis, because otherwise I would be probably speaking fluent russian and painted red flags in my childhood (which are not in the receiving end of a barrel, like those used to be in my true childhood :D)
However I'm proud to know the finns in WWII didn't go to conquer whole of russia with the germans like they wanted, but rather stopped around the areas of former borders nor joined in the nazi's holocaust acts.
-
Being allied with Hitler is only slightly worse than being allied with Stalin IMHO.
-
Originally posted by Jack55
Being allied with Hitler is only slightly worse than being allied with Stalin IMHO.
Thats quite true..
-
Originally posted by ramzey
@Boroda dont forget great plan to liberate whole world from bad capitalists;)
Do you know the fate of the people who kept on talking of "world revolution" since 1927?...
Trotskism was one of the biggest "religious crimes" in USSR.
-
Originally posted by Fishu
Anyway, personally I have no problems if people likes to say finns were allied with the nazis, because otherwise I would be probably speaking fluent russian and painted red flags in my childhood (which are not in the receiving end of a barrel, like those used to be in my true childhood :D)
However I'm proud to know the finns in WWII didn't go to conquer whole of russia with the germans like they wanted, but rather stopped around the areas of former borders nor joined in the nazi's holocaust acts.
First: USSR didn't want to "conquer" Finland, and it didn't. The war, ended with the complete of the Finnish defences, resulted in admission of pre-war Soviet suggestions. That's the fact. Finland lost all opportunities to protect itself in March, 1940.
Second: Finns did not stop at "former borders". They occupied Karelia including Petrozavodsk.
Third: Finns organized genocide against non-Finnish population in Karelia, and the death rate in their concentration camps was in fact higher then in German ones.
I have found the name of the book I mentioned to you a few years ago. In Finnish it's "Suomi Miehittäjänä 1941-1944" by Helge Seppälä.
Here is a quote from here: http://www.tendens.se/nicolas/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=287
Posted by Juha Tompuri:
Atleast one book is about the Finnish rule at East Carelia: "Suomi Miehittäjänä 1941-1944" (Finland as Occupant...) by Helge Seppälä (not one of my favourite authors) 1989.
Finnish policy at those days was nationalistic.
Some notes from the book:
Civilian population under Finnish rule (31th Dec-41):
35919 nationals (Carelians etc)
50200 non-nationals (Russian etc)
1st Jan-44:
41875 nat.
41510 non-nat.(death rate and checking/changing nationality from the first figures)
Finland had two type of "camps" at E Carelia: concentration camps =prisons at Kinnasvaara(5 nationals and 87 non-nationals) and Kolvasjärvi(107 nationals and 2 non-nationals) and "siirtoleiri" (a camp for polically unreliable people, they lived at there but worked outside of the camp) Petrozavodsk(57 nationals and 11819 non-nationals), Alavoinen(4 nationals and 2285 non-nationals) and Pyhäniemi(1 national and 550 non-nationals)
At first Finnish didn´t pay for the work, but later for example national carpenter got 12FMK/hour, but had to pay no taxes (in Finland 14,9FMK/hour -taxes) non-nationals got about 70% national salary.
Food rations for the non-nationals were lower than for the nationals. After the war A.Zdanov gave us a list (61 names) about war criminals: 40 of them were E Carelia related. Among them were the commanders of the military rule at E Carelia, col. V.A. Kotilainen and col. A.V. Arajuuri (charged for ethnical food rations). Both emigrated Finland after the war, and after their return -48 and -49 the charges were dropped.
There is no reliable data about the death-rate at the area. 4600 is perhaps quite close the truth. The sadest period was the begining of 1942, hard winter, lack of food and diseased killed 3536 people at the camps between 18th Jan-31th Dec -42.
There is also something about the partisans and underground resistance.
Regards, Juha
"Sotavangit Suomessa 1941-1944" (POW´s at Finland...) by Eino Pietola perhaps has something about the war Crimes too. Can´t remember exact.
Anyway, I just don't see any reason to call our Finnish comrades (I mean comrades not "comrades") bad names. It happened 60 years ago, and nazism was declared criminal and inhuman long time since. We have to fight modern neo-nazis, so such things will never happen again, instead of declaring whole nations "nazi supporters".
-
Originally posted by mora
Oxymoron
I think mora just called Boroda a stupid cow-like creature.
in.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
First: USSR didn't want to "conquer" Finland, and it didn't.
Oh yeah, well what was that plan about reaching Helsinki in 3 weeks? Sure, it was just metaphoric phrase about the speed which Russians were advancing no?
The war, ended with the complete of the Finnish defences, resulted in admission of pre-war Soviet suggestions. That's the fact.
The fact is, that the appalling show from Russian army got Stalin too afraid to try anything more than they could be certain to have. That is NOT what they initially were thinking, thats what they were FORCED to be satisfied.
Finland lost all opportunities to protect itself in March, 1940.
LOL! Yeah and then the Sovjet troops marched to Helsinki, which wasnt their plan, but still.
Second: Finns did not stop at "former borders". They occupied Karelia including Petrozavodsk.
And nobody disagrees with that. It was stupid thing to do.
Third: Finns organized genocide against non-Finnish population in Karelia, and the death rate in their concentration camps was in fact higher then in German ones.
"The sadest period was the begining of 1942, hard winter, lack of food and diseased killed 3536 people "
Genocide? I think not..
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
Has anyone seen the holy hand grenade of antioch?
ONE
TWO
FOUR
"Three, sir"
THREE
-
Again the money for the fish, part thirty eight :)
Originally posted by Tuomio
The fact is, that the appalling show from Russian army got Stalin too afraid to try anything more than they could be certain to have. That is NOT what they initially were thinking, thats what they were FORCED to be satisfied.
LOL! Yeah and then the Sovjet troops marched to Helsinki, which wasnt their plan, but still.
With Mannerheim Line broken and Soviet tanks on the ice of Finnish Gulf - there was nothing that could stop Red Army from advancing towards Helsingfors.
In fact - Stalin simply took back the lands granted to Great Principate of Finland by Alexander I. And he compensated them by much more land in Karelia. Now tell me that he was so frightened that Finns forced him to do it. He just insisted on his pre-war suggestions.
This is so clear and primitive that I don't want to discuss it any more.
Originally posted by Tuomio
"The sadest period was the begining of 1942, hard winter, lack of food and diseased killed 3536 people "
Genocide? I think not..
Genocide is a wrong word here, sorry. It was politics of nationalistic segregation and opression, that is defined as "fascism" in Russian languadge. Sorry again :(
-
Originally posted by Boroda
With Mannerheim Line broken and Soviet tanks on the ice of Finnish Gulf - there was nothing that could stop Red Army from advancing towards Helsingfors.
So on 1940 they marched to Helsinki, parades were held and Molotov got his ice cream he promised have in our capital. We actually made song from it, its called "Njet molotov".
Yes it was a matter of time when finns story were to be over, but factor was, HOW long time. It took 4 years and possibly, when the peace agreements were made, Ruskies didnt exactly know how little effort would be needed to crush the rest of us. Thats why they settled with less than they could have got. When they later realized the mistake, instead of just invading again they trusted the communist parties inside Finland would eventually do the job for them.
Now tell me that he was so frightened that Finns forced him to do it. He just insisted on his pre-war suggestions.
Sure, after 300 000 inf. casualties on Russians and massive amounts of lost equipment because of us, Stalin in his well known good will just wanted us to live and prosper.
Genocide is a wrong word here, sorry. It was politics of nationalistic segregation and opression, that is defined as "fascism" in Russian languadge. Sorry again :( [/B]
Yeah we were nazis and facists, you be glad as soviets werent. If you read that link you gave further, there is detailed explanations what did happen in our Karelian camps.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Second: Finns did not stop at "former borders". They occupied Karelia including Petrozavodsk.
I didn't claim they stopped _exactly_ around the former borders, but hardly much further.. so it is around the area of former borders, like said.
-
Fact: on occasion, Finland make good race car drivers...
that is all, please carry on...nothing to see here....
Tronsky
-
Originally posted by Tuomio
So on 1940 they marched to Helsinki, parades were held and Molotov got his ice cream he promised have in our capital. We actually made song from it, its called "Njet molotov".
I have heard that song. Sounds funny. When did he "promise" to eat ice-cream in Helsingfors? Sounds like an ordinary propaganda hallucination.
Originally posted by Tuomio
Yes it was a matter of time when finns story were to be over, but factor was, HOW long time. It took 4 years and possibly, when the peace agreements were made, Ruskies didnt exactly know how little effort would be needed to crush the rest of us. Thats why they settled with less than they could have got. When they later realized the mistake, instead of just invading again they trusted the communist parties inside Finland would eventually do the job for them.
LOL. No. ROFLMAO.
Paranoid hallucinations.
Please, explain what, WHAT could brave Finns do against Soviet tanks that crossed Finnish Gulf on ice???
Go tell me that it was Finnish natural resources that Stalin wanted to seize. You know, Russia is mostly covered with desert and we need more timber.
We wanted the border moved away from Leningrad, because it was dangerous in case of "indirect agression", and time have shown that Stalin was 100% right. That's all it was about.
Occupation of Finland simply couldn't be planned, because it could result in a war with France and UK, and, likely, an alliance between France, UK and nazi Germany against us.
Originally posted by Tuomio
Sure, after 300 000 inf. casualties on Russians and massive amounts of lost equipment because of us, Stalin in his well known good will just wanted us to live and prosper.
You fought like probably noone else in the history of XX century, except Russians. Our casualities were enormous, mostly because of frost... But thinking that Finland could oppose Red Army is the last, incurable degree of optimism.
Originally posted by Tuomio
Yeah we were nazis and facists, you be glad as soviets werent. If you read that link you gave further, there is detailed explanations what did happen in our Karelian camps.
I know what happened in your Karelian camps without this lame attempt to find excuses. Believe me, Finns are not the only source of information on this subject. SOME people survived there.
What I really LOVE is that some Finns on AGW want to present concentration camps as a humanitarian attempt to feed the hungry and save prisoners from starvation. Indeed, lie is truth, war is peace, etc.
Maybe we'll talk about heroic deeds of your skyddskår "patrolmen"?... And don't you ever dare to tell me about "soviet partisans" who "slaughtered and murdered" (surprise! surprise!) 140 Finnish civilians, probably the same skyddskår gangsters.
I kindly ask you to write "Soviet" with a capital letter. In Russian we don't write names of the nations with capital, and I don't know about Finnish language (that I really want to study), but we are talking in English.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
I have heard that song. Sounds funny. When did he "promise" to eat ice-cream in Helsingfors? Sounds like an ordinary propaganda hallucination.
If i remember correctly, he said that "soon we are going to eat ice cream in Helsinki". Im not sure if it was Stalin who said that they were going to be in Helsinki after 3 weeks.
I have heard this from various sources and documentaries.
Please, explain what, WHAT could brave Finns do against Soviet tanks that crossed Finnish Gulf on ice???
This must be same kinds of questions red army generals were asking when they manufactured Mainilas border crisis. What could possibly this small and poor country do against hordes of Soviet troops?
It looks you are now speaking of things that could have happened, if this and that were known and ordered. Not a single tank came trough the Gulf to this day. But maybe Stalin just wanted to be fair to us and instead of doing it easy way, he came from Karelia again and again and losing hordes of men. Or should i say the generals who were in charge, Stalin was fixated on Hitlers front.
If we were supposed to be easy nut to crack, why they fought in Karelia, but didnt just come in Helsinki to cut the beasts head off? To claim that we didnt have resources is maybe true, but what did Latvia or Lithuania have? Or Estonia? I can see plenty of strategical benefits for claiming our lands. Not like Stalin needed any, he was just lunie who felt he was a god and acted accordingly. Soviets liked to expand and why not to expand to place who was stick in your butt for 5 years? Something that didnt happen doesent mean somebody didnt want.
We wanted the border moved away from Leningrad, because it was dangerous in case of "indirect agression", and time have shown that Stalin was 100% right. That's all it was about.
And we did move our borders peacefully to some extent. But you wanted more, our important choke points against Soviet possible assault were to be given for you for future purposes.
Occupation of Finland simply couldn't be planned, because it could result in a war with France and UK, and, likely, an alliance between France, UK and nazi Germany against us.
We were allied with Nazis, so nobody wouldve done anything to support this god forgotten land. UK declared war against us remember?
But thinking that Finland could oppose Red Army is the last, incurable degree of optimism..
No, we opposed you, thats a fact. But we didnt have chance to win if we would receive Soviets full attention.
I know what happened in your Karelian camps without this lame attempt to find excuses. Believe me, Finns are not the only source of information on this subject. SOME people survived there.
We starved (verb) them to death? Did we gas them, or deny something that coulve been easily given? Were there reasonable options for camps? Feel free to tell the stories of the people who were there.
What I really LOVE is that some Finns on AGW want to present concentration camps as a humanitarian attempt to feed the hungry and save prisoners from starvation. Indeed, lie is truth, war is peace, etc.
I have never stated such things. If you pack 10 000 people in small area with ****ty infrastructure, that place will be a hellhole and very inhumane. But did we seek ways to make it worse, i think not.
I dont know about the partisans, i have heard their mission was to rape and do general havoc in civilian infrastructure. Dont know whether our patrols had habit of raping or burning civilian buildings.
-
Originally posted by Tuomio
If i remember correctly, he said that "soon we are going to eat ice cream in Helsinki". Im not sure if it was Stalin who said that they were going to be in Helsinki after 3 weeks.
I have heard this from various sources and documentaries.
Never ever heard about it. If such things were said - every demscisoid dog will bark about it at every corner now.
Such words are simply out of line of Soviet propaganda and politics. It can be an anecdote. Nice propaganda hook. Really nice.
Originally posted by Tuomio
This must be same kinds of questions red army generals were asking when they manufactured Mainilas border crisis. What could possibly this small and poor country do against hordes of Soviet troops?
Mannerheim estimated that Finland was able to endure for 2 weeks after Soviet invasion. Mistakes in Soviet command and incredible frost (even for Russians), the stupid idea that we can win by throwing our fur-hats at Finns were the cause of the disaster. And, on the first place - desperation, bravery and skills of your Grandfathers. But after Red Army started to act according to it's own field regulations - everything was finished in a matter of days.
Originally posted by Tuomio
It looks you are now speaking of things that could have happened, if this and that were known and ordered. Not a single tank came trough the Gulf to this day. But maybe Stalin just wanted to be fair to us and instead of doing it easy way, he came from Karelia again and again and losing hordes of men. Or should i say the generals who were in charge, Stalin was fixated on Hitlers front.
You are mistaken. 70th infantry division crossed Finnish Gulf, with all armour, in March, 1940 IIRC. Commander was M.P. Kirponos. Finland demanded a cease-fire immediately after this.
Again, the stupid idea that Finns will just surrender costed us thousands of lives. Everything was finished in a matter of days when we started to act according to the regulations. You know, regulations are written with blood...
Originally posted by Tuomio
If we were supposed to be easy nut to crack, why they fought in Karelia, but didnt just come in Helsinki to cut the beasts head off? To claim that we didnt have resources is maybe true, but what did Latvia or Lithuania have? Or Estonia? I can see plenty of strategical benefits for claiming our lands. Not like Stalin needed any, he was just lunie who felt he was a god and acted accordingly. Soviets liked to expand and why not to expand to place who was stick in your butt for 5 years? Something that didnt happen doesent mean somebody didnt want.
You can call Stalin whatever you want, but he definetly was not a loonie.
We needed naval bases outside Finnish Gulf, and we got Libava (Liepaya, sorry, I use names in old-fashioned "naval" transcribtion). We got rid of potential beachheads for agression in Pribaltika. We got Hanko (Gangut). We had to think of "indirect agression", a term never admitted by League of Nations. Again, time have shown that Stalin was right.
Originally posted by Tuomio
And we did move our borders peacefully to some extent. But you wanted more, our important choke points against Soviet possible assault were to be given for you for future purposes.
Hmm. I have never heard about "moving borders peacefully". :( Maybe a lack in my education. I am not even an amateur historian :(
What I know is that hostilities with Finland went on in 1918-22, and there was no movement of borders in our favour (hope you understand what I mean).
Originally posted by Tuomio
We were allied with Nazis, so nobody wouldve done anything to support this god forgotten land. UK declared war against us remember?
Well. This paragraph tells me a lot.
JFYI: the ONLY country that supported Soviet agression in Finland was nazi Germany. UK and France were planning to land in Norway and directly send troops to the theatre of operations and help Finns. USSR avoided this only by mere chance. More to say, UK and France were planning various offencive operations against USSR in 1940. The most well-known plan was bombing Caspian oil wells in Baku from the bases in Iran. USSR had to enforce Caucasian military district by 3 times preparing for such actions of future "allies".
UK declared war on Finland in 1943, as you said above. In 1940 USSR had a treaty with Germany, so UK and France supported Finland.
It's sad that you don't know such key points of your own contry's history :(
Originally posted by Tuomio
No, we opposed you, thats a fact. But we didnt have chance to win if we would receive Soviets full attention.
Finland didn't have any chance to stop USSR even when only Leningrad military district was involved in a war. :(
Originally posted by Tuomio
We starved (verb) them to death? Did we gas them, or deny something that coulve been easily given? Were there reasonable options for camps? Feel free to tell the stories of the people who were there.
The reasonable option for camps was simply letting people live and not start national segregation. What really shoked me was the fact that Saam population were given special ribbons with "relative nation" written on them. Unfortunately, after invading into historicaly Russian land Finland started to act like nazis did in Poland, Belorussia, Ukraine and Russia.... :(
Originally posted by Tuomio
I have never stated such things. If you pack 10 000 people in small area with ****ty infrastructure, that place will be a hellhole and very inhumane. But did we seek ways to make it worse, i think not.
I dont know about the partisans, i have heard their mission was to rape and do general havoc in civilian infrastructure. Dont know whether our patrols had habit of raping or burning civilian buildings.
Skyddskår were in fact feared more then German SS troops :( They were in fact acting against civilian population. Now it's called "terrorism" :( Unlike Soviet "partisans", who were in fact wearing Red Army uniform, they were nothing more then armed gangs that did have a habbit to rape and burn :(
BTW, how do you imagine a "mission" to rape declared to a regular army unit? It was impossible according to the official Soviet line. Simply - impossible. Any commander issuing such orders must have been immediately removed from his unit and put under military tribunal. :mad:
Again I have to say that I feel sorry that my country had to start an agression against Finland, and I adore the bravery and will of Finnish people. Now I am looking for a Stalin's toast speech for the Finnish people where he expressed the same feelings.
-
lol, what a stuff Boroda.
When you talk about dedicated rapists etc., why do you forget to mention those soviet troops operating behind the lines, who went around the small villages interrogating people and killing them after that, to not get caught so easy?
You sound quite biased on the matter...
-
Originally posted by Fishu
lol, what a stuff Boroda.
When you talk about dedicated rapists etc., why do you forget to mention those soviet troops operating behind the lines, who went around the small villages interrogating people and killing them after that, to not get caught so easy?
You sound quite biased on the matter...
Yes, I am quite biased.
But I don't talk about dedicated rapists. I just say that Skyddskår were feared more then SS, and they were known to do some horrible things. And, unlike Soviet troops that you by some strange mistake call "partisans" they were not regular army units.
Just curious: didn't you really hear about UK/France plans to directly help Finland, and of the plans to bomb Baku oil wells?
1939/40 politics was really wierd. There was a popular US movie called "Mission to Moscow" explaining it all...
-
A russian talking about rape... My polish grandmother would have something to say about this...