Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hangtime on August 10, 2000, 09:25:00 AM
-
(hang is standing in front of the Bish Procurement Officers desk; at attention... eyes locked front)
"Sooooo tell me; bonehead; where in hell are the wings off ...lets see.. (shuffles AC readiness reports) 356 of MY gawdamn P51's???"
(hang starts to reply; but BPO starts hollering again)
SHADDAP; dammit! I DON'T WANNA HEAR about the cottin picken BBQ'd Mustang parts competition!! Yes! We know the wings are weak; YES! we know you've been makin BBQ's outta the fuselage remanants! What I wanna know MISTER; is where are the WINGS right NOW?
(hang replies) "Sir... ahhh; I suspect the missing components in question are spread fairly evenly between rook and knit land; repectively. Sir. "
"... and just WHAT in hell are they doing there; may I ask MISTER??"
(hang looks around; looks back at spot on wall above BPO's head) Sir; I left em there... I, unnnh, well I figured I'd use 'em like bread crumbs...""
WHAAAAT! BREADCRUMBS??? You freakin moron... yah GOT a COMPASS; dickhead! Cantcha find yer way back here with a COMPASS???"
"...well; nosir; um, I mean yessir; I could use the compass; but well, see, it's like this; the damn joystick wuz spiking; and every time it would twitch above 450 IAS the bleedin wings would peel right off.... and since I wuz usually on the way home with half the damn OPFOR fighter cap chasin my tired bellybutton home.. well; ya see sir??" (hang looks imploringly at the BPO)
"NO; DAMMIT, I DON'T see! Whats the control system have to do with BREADCRUMBS?"
"Well; sir, it's like this.. I figure whoever bolted the wings on the damn Mustang was half crocked or utterly mindless.. the frakin things just fall off at the MOST inopportune moments. I figure if I loose enuff of the damn things; well; pretty soon, when the dolts at the factory decide ta come see for themselves whats wrong with 'em; well; they can just WALK to rookworld or knitland on an uniterupted string of high quality North American Avaition Aircraft aluminum. And Sir; once there, I'm SURE the rooks and knits will be glad ta pin medals on them fer bein so damn cooperative in THEIR war effort; all without even gettin their feet messed up with HT's precious sheep sh_t. Sir."
"DISMISSED!" (hang about-faces, starts for the door) "...and incedentally; that reconstituted Mustang BBQ you sent over to my ex-wifes quarters yesterday??.. well; the legs fell off. Trashed her dates uniform. See that its fixed. Properly. Before the weekend. Clear?"
"Yessir. Would third degree burns next time be acceptable??"
(the BPO smiles) "I see we understand each other. Carry on"
"Sir!" (hang whips up a crisp salute and heads back to the war)
-
LOL Hang, I feel your pain.
I had to pay extra, but HT sent me a new bolt kit for my pony. They look like they may have been removed from a oil tanker in the North Sea. To date the wings have stayed on. But those 2" dia bolts are way to long and stick out the bottom causing severe drag. Can't get her over 400 ias.
You might want to investigate the HT bolt kit yourself, but see if he has got the shorter ones. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
wizzer
-
Yah.. the upgrades came in.. worked fine fer a few months; and now we back to poppin wings.
Inspection reveals metric thread components mixed with SAE. Exposed treads are stripped. Studs extend into aileron linkage hoods, jamming ailerons at high G's and air speeds.
*sigh*
Reworking controls so it flys like a Bus.. don't help. Altho I do make a lot more stops per sortie now.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
-
In the words of my my man Eric Clapton..."It's in the way that you use it..." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Been missin ya online Hang...cyas up soon I hope...got power in the old hascienda now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Later
------------------
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/rude.gif)
[This message has been edited by Rude (edited 08-10-2000).]
-
Mustangs did have a problem with losing wings. I don't have my info with me, but I recall a story that went as follows:
A USAAF P-51D pilot was talking to a North American representative who had been sent to Europe to investigate the pilot claims of wing failures. The North American guy was telling the pilot that it couldn't happen and that they were mistaking the situations in which it happened when a loud BANG-THUMP was heard coming from the far side of the building. The North American guy asked what that noise was, expecting it be be a German bomb or some such, and the pilot told him that another P-51 had just lost its wings. They ran around and there was a smashed burning fuselage and two wings which were still tumbling out of the sky. The P-51 had lost its wings doing a simple fly-by, no Gs to speak of at all. The horrible thing is that the pilot knew what had happened based on nothing more than the sound of the P-51 losing its wings, he'd heard it enough to know what it was. That and the fact that the pilot of the P-51 died there. North American rep went back with some new info and they tried to fix it. I don't know how successful they were, but I seem to recall that they did fix it.
Sisu
-Karnak
-
While I don't question the accuracy of Karnak's post, this may be carrying historical realism a bit TOO far! My last four deaths in 'stangs have all involved the wings ripping off, and it hasn't happened once in any other aircraft type.
-
I have no problem if my post is questioned for accuracy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I don't think that P-51s should randomly lose wings in AH, but its G tolerence might be correct while being lower than desirable. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Sisu
-Karnak
-
Pyro has indicated in another thread that he will be looking at the pony, and among other things, checking the g stress limit/failure mode on the pony's wings.
The original post above was done back last December I think.. and is reposted above to merely jiggle his arm in this regard. I lost 4 sets of pony wings last night; in circumstances that I can only describe as laughable.. they should not have popped so damn easy.
As far as a historical prececdent for fraigle pony wings.. I'm surprised. I had read no reports even remotely resembling karnaks observation.. and was under the impression that the D model pony had a pretty solid airframe as far as flight stresses were concerned. In same platform comparisions; the D model had more gripes against it than the P51B model did.. my info has it the the late B model stangs were very rugged indeed... with the early D having some issues with the fin strength; and the addition of the dorsal improved lateral stabilty and fin strength.
karnak.. I do remeber reading a report like that on the Sabre, but not the pony. Any chance you could find the refrence?
Which brings up another topic... when we gonna get a B model pony?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
-
To all especially Hangtime,
I posted a thread on this very subject in the Bug thread section of the bbs. I had the wings rip off of my last pony at under 300mph in less than 2 g climb. The last thing I did was press the trigger. As soon as the guns fired the wings went away. No excess speed, no excess G's, No externall ordinance or tanks on the plane, no damage to the plane and between 30% and 50% fuel TOTAL in the plane all internal. I guess the lethality of the 50's is worse to the firing aircraft than anything they can do to the target!
I have not flown a pony since that date. I have severely restricted my flying in the MA as I have a VERY sour taste in my mouth about this issue. I have spent time in TA lately having MUCH more fun doing nothing but stupid TnB with others who don't care about anything but having a good time.
PLEASE, all who feel there is a problem with wing rips, post on the bug thread "P51 Wings need revisiting" and lets get some attention dedicated to this. If it is only limited to myself and on or two others Pyro and HTC can hardly be faulted for assuming it is a stick or setup problem on the computer of the FEW who experianvce this. I do not think this is a small item that should be ignored. I think this is a real bug that needs attention. Please help.
--> Mav13 gets cardboard and magic marker to make a sign. "Will fly for stronger wings"
Even though I put a couple "funnies" in this post I am dead serious about it. There IS a problem and it needs attention.
------------------
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/mav13.jpg)
No Mercy Asked, None Given, Just pass the ammo
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 08-10-2000).]
-
Witnessed by squaddies, I'm in a dive, doing 350 kts..pulling 2 G's, A/C starts violently shaking nose up nose down in little tiny increments, then wings rip off....in a F4U-1C. When I log off and re-boot, everything is back to normal.
I have 17 deaths this tour, and 10 of them were due to the anomoly above.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-10-2000).]
-
Ahhh...the voodoo -1C doll that I've been sticking pins into is finally working! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Ive tore the wings off a spit at 280ias. Was in a spinning dive. did not pulll up at all. Never got the chance.
The thing that has always bothered me about it, was the lack of warning. There is no over speed sound. And most times they pop off before you here a grone.
This is like the "dont move the stick to fast" message problem we use to have. What ever triggers the wings comming off, needs to be toned down a little.
-
LOL Hang your "whines" are the best read of all of them ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
DW6
Note: the use of the word whine above is in no way being meant as inflamatory, insulting or disapproving, it is rather meant that the said whines of other people should be carried out more like the above example!
-
This makes me remember my problem with fw190A8 2 tours ago...
To say it short:I had 2 weeks in wich every time I went faster than 450mph (and many many times at 350-400) my wings went to take beers leaving the rest of the plane alone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
It was frightening pissing, to go up to 18K in an A8 to dive on a spit and see my wings going away...
After 1.03 I had no more problems with the 190's wings. Broke them once, yes, in a compressed dive at 550 mph when trimmed up in desperation...when the plane discompressed, the wings broke (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (as the trimming pulled the nose up at an incredible speed...I must have nearly trespassed the low end of the plane because the G forces (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
So when Pyro looks at it and finds the bug I'm sure he will fix it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-10-2000).]
-
So! Exactly how many 51 pilots are standing down at the moment?
-
Not enough (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Heh, loved yer whine Hangtime (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
-
Dunno how many are 'standing down' tho many of my squaddies, normally dedicated P51 pilots; are often seen flying jugs and P38's.. stated reason is the fragile wings on the pony. I sure spend less time on line due to the condition.. who want's to get enraged by a system hiccup? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I really did not intend to start a rant on the pony or the other FM's in the sim.. tho I think we've all heard of similar problems in the F4 and serveral other platforms as well. As stated earlier.. just a friendly 'nudge'. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The best news of note from all the threads was Rips description of the problem in the F4.. notably that when he relogged; the problem went away. RAM had a similar issue.. his cleared up when he got some new joystick hardware, I believe.
In any case, whats being highlighted is that it may be a local issue of some type.. and I'll continue to look at my system for a solution, while we all wait for the next revision.
Lets not beat on HTC.. they've acknowledged that it needs looking into.. and that's a good thing.. and I'd rather they do it because we asked 'em to as gents.. not because of rants and threats.
Thanks Pyro... yer new BBQ is about ready fer delivery (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
-
Don't worry Hang, 190s don't eat the wings off them 51s anyway, just the fusalage.
So it don't matter if they drop off.
:-)
-
I fly the p51 a lot myself, but I can't say I've really experienced a problem with the wings coming off. (I think I've lost 2 sets of wings in the last 2 tours.) Both times was when in a dive >500 mph and attempting to roll the plane.
I personally think the problem may be due to stick spikes. My P Pro is just rock solid, though I've pretty much worn it out - lots of slack. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
You guys sound like you often lose wings at 300 mph while pulling only minor G's. I've never lost a set of wings unless I was going REALLY fast and tried to roll and/or pull up violently. I think there is more to this problem than plane modelling...
------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
-
I fly the Mustang almost exlcusivly, i had the wings rip a few times rip before, only one i thought was a bit dodgy, the rest i was well in compression and locked in a uncontrollable speed dive +520 MPH. or when the stang comes out of compression ya have to be real carefull when levelling out.
I think in total i have around 2-3 wing pops a tour, and say, 1 of which may be questionable. It could be a spiky JS thing, my 1 dont spike really.
The thing that bugs me is the no buffeting before compression (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Splatula (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Voss Bro........
Where ya been,miss our late night sorties.
As for the p51, i manage to keep the wing on mine. Not sure what is happening with everyone else. Ive had no problem with wing departing the p51.
Is it possible that some of you guys have the stick scaling up to high,or dampening to low? This would cause wings to rip off if the stick is to sensitive?
What i did notice was wing would rip off in earlier versions if you had any Ord or DTs on wings and pulled up. But this is not so now. I carry my DTs allmost till there empty only dropping them if i end up turning with an 190 or another p51..
Dog out......
-
Sheeeeeit Hangtime,
Grab a beer.
Lemme tell ya a little story.
Last night, the Fat Drunk Bastards were flyin' for the darkside (ROOKS) and as I miss wingin' with dem slobs from my ole Bish days, (yes I was even a knit once too) I hooked up fer some sorties.
Now it's late at night, real late, an' we'd 'bout kilt off all them nasty, sheep-lovin' knits who'd we'd hadda drag kickin' and screamin' like lil' girls into the Northwest corner of da map.
So Fatty, Creamo, and I decide we need some mo' victims, we attempt to draw some bishes to A26 with various insults and bribes from their fight with the knits that was goin' on da other side o the map.
Anyways, I saddled up my 190A-5 and headed out to A26, figurin' they's see me and send somethin' my way.
I arrive high above A26, and start circlin' and pacin' like it's ten minutes to quitin' time on a Friday afternoon, just waitin' fer somethin' with a pulse to show, when I spy with my gov'mint issue MK1 eye a Bish Spitter rollin' from 26.
So I roll my 190A-5 onto it's back like a virgin on 'er wedding night, and start pullin' back on stick, ta commence my world famous "Lawn-Dart" dive for which I am reknown for.
I am directly over the Spitter, waitin' fer his break, so's I can roll into him, when I hear this god-awful creaking ripping sound, ya know the one...same noise as when you've been constipated two weeks and it finally brown caps.
I realize, I'm fittin' to lose parts of the ole girl, now Herr Speer mighta done wonders with production numbers, but my gut sinkin' feelin' is quality control has suffered.
I begin to pull hard on the joystick, (no comments from the peanut gallery or sexual innuendos from ya'll)
And what should happen? Lost both my wings, now normally I wouldn't care, cuz' hell they's just 'xtra weight anyways, like my flaps, and rudder, but I start to worry this time, cuz I'm thinkin' I mighta had an audience.
'kay so now I'm still flyin'...sorta, but I'm checkin' 6 real hard, not cuz I'm worried the Spitter is there, but to make sure no one saw my attack on 'im.
Unfortunatly Fatty and Creamo saw it.
Talk about embarrassin' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/Logos.jpg)
------------------
CyberPilots have bigger Joysticks
BANDITS ON MY SIX!!!! (http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/rowgue/goose2.ra)
<< MILENKO >> (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
ACES HIGH ASSASSINS Website (http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm)
WB/AH ASSASSINS Website (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
-
Originally posted by milnko:
Unfortunatly Fatty and Creamo saw it.
Talk about embarrassin' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Not as embarassin as get nailed AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and - oh you get it - by yours truely despite all your buddies being around muahahahhahahahahaha!
-
LOL.. yah .. I'm not convinced we got a FM problem... and I've ordered a new joystick. However, it's happeneing often enough, and to enough diffrent people in different planes as well as the pony.. folks that are good sticks and understand their FM's to boot that it warrants a look-see; and that's all we can ask for. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I am directly over the Spitter, waitin' fer his break, so's I can roll into him, when I hear this god-awful creaking ripping sound, ya know the one...same noise as when you've been constipated two weeks and it finally brown caps.
ROFLMAO.. yah.. been in both cockpits. I know exactly whacha mean. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And what should happen? Lost both my wings, now normally I wouldn't care, cuz' hell they's just 'xtra weight anyways, like my flaps, and rudder, but I start to worry this time, cuz I'm thinkin' I mighta had an audience.
Oh; man.. too much. My side hurts from laffin.. great post Milenko. Salute; sir!
Hang
-
Originally posted by Vulcan:
Not as embarassin as get nailed AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and - oh you get it - by yours truely despite all your buddies being around muahahahhahahahahaha!
Nope sorry there Spock, that didn't embarrass me at all.
I'll agree with everyone when they say you very good in the 190 Vulcan.
And when they said your a braggart. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
You act like it's some big deal to shoot me down. Hell, I been shot down a MILLION times. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) You got me 4 times last night, so what's your point? I mean besides the one your hat covers up? I think you forget my friends weren't there everytime too. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
You see, I win either way, cuz I get to learn sumthin' from every fight (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But I do question how you can fly as well as you do, seems to me it's a small wonder that you can find the time to take your eyes off the mirror and away from admiring yourself long enough to play this game???????
(http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/Logos.jpg)
------------------
CyberPilots have bigger Joysticks
BANDITS ON MY SIX!!!! (http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/rowgue/goose2.ra)
<< MILENKO >> (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
ACES HIGH ASSASSINS Website (http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm)
WB/AH ASSASSINS Website (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
-
Originally posted by milnko:
You see, I win either way, cuz I get to learn sumthin' from every fight (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But I do question how you can fly as well as you do, seems to me it's a small wonder that you can find the time to take your eyes off the mirror and away from admiring yourself long enough to play this game???????
I keep my monitor nice and polished, so I can see my reflection in it.
Whats the point of flying against people if ya can't rub their noses in it <grin>. Might as well go play Falcon 4 if I cannot kick my opponents when they're down!
-
Originally posted by Wardog:
Voss Bro........
Where ya been,miss our late night sorties.
(snipped)
Dog out......
Yeah, I miss 'en too. Don't worry, we'll team up and hunt those late night turds again. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm working 80 hour weeks and I'm upgrading equipment to 21st century standards. I've got a new wireless modem installed, and I'm looking at USB controls. I'll be back after another $500, or so. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Besides, I have this fantastic terrain editor to play with. heh...
Out...
-
Don't see what you guys are upset about....I've broke the wings off every damn bird we got in the inventory, and no, not always from obvious overstress.
Just this morning, saw a B26 below me about 3K, started down in my trusty P47D-30, dive flaps on, throttle at idle, controls crossed to keep IAS at 250, TAS at about 270, got right about the guy, less than 1K, and SNAP!
Goodbye wings, ye treacherous bastages, leaving me in such a precarious position. Tried flapping big he-man arms (did no good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
), released pucker hold on the seat, and hit the silk.
Have experienced wing failures in situations where the wings could not have been overstressed at all, but they went anyway. As I have learned more in this sim, I have really watched how many g's I put on the old bird, and lately, have been seeing wing failures at 2-3.5 g's and airspeed well below what would be considered too high.
Beats me what is happening.
But now I know where all the 'Stangs went. Knew I hadn't seen many at all since the new patch and the P47 hit the arena.
------------------
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/assassins2.gif)
<===<The ASSASSINS>===> (http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm)
assassins@aceshighcs.com
[This message has been edited by eddiek (edited 08-11-2000).]
-
P51 is my ride 95% of the time, i have no problems with wings ripping at all.
Regards.
------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
-
Hang just to update you what RL exposure I've had on wings coming off....none. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But My dad flew ponies for the 8th in the ETO and logged over 1000 hours in the 51. I asked the question with regards to any memories of the pony wings weak or coming off... His comments where "None to his knowledge and the pony was a tough bird". He did also explain, that him and his squaddies were very careful not to reach any speed closed to compressability(sp,word?) and would avoid those situations at all cost for fear of overstressing the AF.
I explained the situation in which my pony wings depart most often (500 ias, low gs, rolling) With laughter he said "Thats the difference between RL and your sim, we didn't get close to that stress". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Bottom line, My geuss is that the way we fly is soooo different from the RL WWII pilots approach, its not really compareable.
wizzer
PS. Dad just called back and mentioned that in July 1945 the NA rep said the redline for the G meter was 6.3 and that any down or up drafts that would get the wing load to 8.3 Gs would cause wing faliure. He wasn't clear on how much damge would be done . IE..wingtip or wing coming off altogether. Also if anyone is interested my dad was 45 years old when I was born! LOL!!!!! So I'm not that old!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
the gear should fail first on over G in pony not the wings.
In fact there are so many stories of the p51 "bending" its wings and jamming the gear in the up position.