Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: nopoop on September 04, 2003, 10:58:49 PM
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Amazing, had a decent night of fighting. Outnumbered but it was alot of fun. Take a break and figure one more sortie for the road..
Head towards a decent dar bar. A_sector_and_a_half_away in a Spit V. One more to cap the night.
Upon arriving near the base what I found was this..
One spitty away from the base that my squadie killed..
AT the base..
Multiple GV's. Had to be to ten or twelve of them spawn camping all the runway spawn points including all the hangers just sitting and killing the planes as they appeared..
What was more interesting is that this MASS of GV's saw no reason to take out the Vehicle hanger......?
..as the mass of Panzers began to appear..
I don't understand.
I think I might be playing this game wrong.
Somewhere, somehow "score" became the endall or the "purpose". When score is only a number ( which it is ) the "number" has become the goal. In any way that it can be achieved. Whether it be spawn camping, gang banging or any other way that makes it "easier" to get that almighty score.
I would add that "winning" the reset through land aquisition tends to hold the same requirement. By any means possible.
It's becoming a trend that is infecting the population that is evident in what I saw tonight.
To the detriment of the game in total.
Aces High I "thought" was all about planes and air to air combat. It seems more than not, to becoming a game of score or "winning" by any means possible.
Enlighten me.
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My tank will conquer your tool shed!
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Not everyone likes to pilot a plane I guess. A few like to do tanks and guns. I know that when I have a bad day and I'm too tired to fly straight, I'll man a gun. It's just sad that they had to set up the way they did to get their kills rather than bring an M3 to capture the field and move on. Rather than play for the team, they'd rather play for themselves I guess.
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Originally posted by nopoop
I think I might be playing this game wrong.
I would add that "winning" the reset through land aquisition tends to hold the same requirement. By any means possible.
It's becoming a trend that is infecting the population that is evident in what I saw tonight.
To the detriment of the game in total.
Aces High I "thought" was all about planes and air to air combat. It seems more than not, to becoming a game of "winning" by any means possible.
poke 'em in the eye: this tour, fly in such a way that you help your country lose.
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It's not just the main, Pooper.
Last night, after reading so much positive info about the CT, I thought I would try it.
I up from the only base with action nearby, and find a guy named ***** camping the spawn in a tiger.
I gave him 2 kills before I got up. (All in all, had fun, but can't figure out how I racked up 8 kills in an hour...I thought the CT was populated by the best pilots...*shrug*)
Anyway, people seem to have forgotten this game is a hobby and it's all about fun. I'll never understand why people a) Spawn camp B)Dive bomb Lancs C)Hack games
These are just a few things I don't understand. It's the spirit of the game and the fun had playing it that counts. Not score, or rank, or resets, or reverence.
Perhaps the people that do these things are having fun, but it's not my idea of a good time.
Example: Last night I took a beautiful 24 bomber raid with escort to bomber 2 Strat targets. We banged the bish Infantry center to 9% and the city to 11%. I knew all along it would have no effect on the outcome of the reset, but it was fun for us. To watch all those bombers flying in formation, to work as a team and to see those bombs impact all at once, was a blast!
I was a little disappointed that the we did not get swarmed by interceptors. (Only saw 4) but the point it is, we did it for nothing more than fun. That's what I pay my 15 bucks a month for.
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"Enlighten me."
WWIIO blew chunks so bad it never drew that crowd away from AH to it. The "We gotta War to win!" generalZ and shed terrorists remain.
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Most fun i have is in CT (even if it does include getting killed by a hoarde eh mr.muckmaw?!) or defending against cv attacks in my trusty Hurricane IIC.
Too many newbs and just plain idiots in this game, seems every opponent i come across just wants to HO me then run.
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There's a certain morbid pleasure in blugeoning baby seals with clubs as they come out of the hanger and spawn on the run way.
Unable to defend them selves. No chance at all of survival. Brutally mutilated and slaughtered, time after time...
Thus is the pleasure of the spawn camper.... give no mercy, kill until the trigger clicks empty.
Some how there's an overwhelming sense of great accomplishment when one lands 21 kills.
Is this any different than what was going on 13 years ago in AH, and WB?
Nope.
The game hasn't deteriated... this is how it has always been.
There's no enlightment here...wake up and smell the coffee!
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For me, AH used to be a air to air combat sim....now it's more like an arcade game.
To be fair, I doubt that a single purpose air to air combat sim would cashflow....it is about making money and I can't blame HTC for anything they have done or will do.
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If HTC is making money then you can't blame em. I reloaded ammo last night.. going to the range today.
You learn to appreciate the great furballs or get frustrated.
lazs
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Originally posted by Furball
Most fun i have is in CT (even if it does include getting killed by a hoarde eh mr.muckmaw?!) or defending against cv attacks in my trusty Hurricane IIC.
Too many newbs and just plain idiots in this game, seems every opponent i come across just wants to HO me then run.
The same thing happened when AW went to AOL, and again when AW shut down on AOL and the players moved to GameStorm. The estabished players complained about the idiots. Some Vets quit, and others started training the newbies. Many of those seals are now established players in AcesHigh, complaining about the idiots.
AcesHigh is great. You can find all types of game play there. If you want to fight an established player, you can generally find them circling at 15-20K over a contested airfield, snapping up unwary loners. But they'll come down when the vulching starts.
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Have I told anyone that my golf handicap has dropped about 10 strokes this year?
Not to mention going up one class in the PPC match. It’s good to have hobbies.
Oh yeah, and raise the price back to $30.
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Find the fun where I can. Fly when I can, joystick messed up drive a GV.
Sick of the idea of getting in a Vehicle last night I went to a capped and virtually destroyed base. Tried to get in a field gun and accidently found myself in a shore battery. No fleet in sight so I sat and watched the vultch action and Typhoons and 51s pounding on the town. Off in the distance low I see a dot resolve into a C-47 as it touches down and rolls to a stop in the city, I slew the gun all the way over and pop off one shore battery round. Poof, no more Goon. Had to giggle over that awhile ;)
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Heya Nopoop - back to your original request for enlightenment.
AH is a game of skill and, as such, most players _want_ a metric by which they can measure their improvement. I remember the days before the score was implemented - the message board was flooded with score-keeping requests.
It's understandable, really: how can you discover if you've made Big Time pilot status if you can't compare your performance with the known big-shots. (Especially if they're in a different time zone or the same country and you never fight them.)
The fallout of implementing score has been two-fold: pilots would sometimes find themselves enjoying bragging rights a little more than the game itself, and good pilots, who never cared about score (they have no doubts about their skill level), found themselves dogfighting a new type of opponent - the score hound.
It's a minor dilema in the scope of things, but if you want to resolve it you'd have to propose a solution which allows pilots struggling to improve some kind of metric. The "solutions" I've seen proposed mostly involve someone else changing their behavior. (Count on that happening tomorrow and all over the world!)
If you want to pursue this to _your_ satisfaction, I'd suggest finding a way to group the true dogfighters into one part of the arena. Perhaps a standing gentlemen's agreement that the southermost, closest opposing fields are always selected by anyone interested in dogfighting.
One caveat, though, keep it secret from the rest of the community (invite only serious dogfighters you know). 'Cause there are alot of pilots who get even more fun griefing the 'elitists'.
- sudz
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Fun = stuff like this (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_71_1062810507.zip)
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Originally posted by -sudz-
Heya Nopoop - back to your original request for enlightenment.
AH is a game of skill and, as such, most players _want_ a metric by which they can measure their improvement. I remember the days before the score was implemented - the message board was flooded with score-keeping requests.
It's understandable, really: how can you discover if you've made Big Time pilot status if you can't compare your performance with the known big-shots. (Especially if they're in a different time zone or the same country and you never fight them.)
The fallout of implementing score has been two-fold: pilots would sometimes find themselves enjoying bragging rights a little more than the game itself, and good pilots, who never cared about score (they have no doubts about their skill level), found themselves dogfighting a new type of opponent - the score hound.
It's a minor dilema in the scope of things, but if you want to resolve it you'd have to propose a solution which allows pilots struggling to improve some kind of metric. The "solutions" I've seen proposed mostly involve someone else changing their behavior. (Count on that happening tomorrow and all over the world!)
If you want to pursue this to _your_ satisfaction, I'd suggest finding a way to group the true dogfighters into one part of the arena. Perhaps a standing gentlemen's agreement that the southermost, closest opposing fields are always selected by anyone interested in dogfighting.
One caveat, though, keep it secret from the rest of the community (invite only serious dogfighters you know). 'Cause there are alot of pilots who get even more fun griefing the 'elitists'.
- sudz
Perhaps we should form the
Ancient & Noble Brotherhood of Honourable Furballers
motto:
"Nos porci nobis, non fuelus"
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I think it's too much Radar, Dar Bars, and those goofy "flashing fields". Radar needs to be more realistic to the era.
Let the GVers sit at a field and wonder when or IF anything is coming. Missions may change from total Field Capture to a good deal of Fighter Sweeps. Spend some time looking for the enemy and I'll bet there will be less running and more fighting. Might just add a bit more adrenaline rush if you don't know if the "Dots" are Bogies or Buddies.
Of course the Kills/Hour may become mute. It's already a silly inane number anyway.
My $.02
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How about doing away with that message "so and so landed 1500 kills in a P40E"
All these guys want is their name in lights and they'll do anything to see it.
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Originally posted by dracon
I think it's too much Radar, Dar Bars, and those goofy "flashing fields". Radar needs to be more realistic to the era.
My $.02
I consider the flashing field to represent the communications/spotter network
Sure the pilots would not neccessarily be told such and such a field is under attack, but hey we don't have controllers directing us from hq or the ground...
Many non-military folks were trained how to spot enemy aircraft, in their area, in europe. Perhaps you can suspend your disbelief for a while and assume thats why the field is flashing.. The local bobbie spotted the huns overhead...
SKurj
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The "game" has become nothing more than kill and get kill messages and gang-bang fields to get a reset.
Ever see people logging into the arena and asking the question, "who won the last reset?" Obviously, if they are asking, they weren't online when it happened, but why do they care? Whoever won the last reset has 0 effect on the current arena situation.
The game as a whole has no point anymore. Strat is non-existant and no one seems to care about strat targets unless they are easy milkruns to pad their attack/bomber scores when a friendly field is nearby (within 20 miles)
Big bomber raids are a thing of the past. No point in doing them when JaBos can do the same job faster and better. Without the bomber raids, there is no escorts needed, and a whole major portion of WWII aircombat is lost.
AH has turned into a shoot-em-up game and is falling further away from being a WWII air combat "sim" that it could have been. It seems most players would rather go in a gangbang against a lightly defended airfield than lock horns with the enemy. The other night, there was something like 20+ rooks attack one bish field (almost completely undefended) and then another 20+ bish attacking a mostly undefended rook field. It could have been a huge furball, but the majority decided gangbanging and vulching a field is better than an actual fight.
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Nopoop, I feel your pain. There game is at its peak when you are on the edge in a good all out dogfight. Fast, slow, hi, low, doesn't matter as long as one false move means you get a trip to the hangar or one more merge and you get to put guns on someone good. Gv's: blah; vulching: well, kinda fun for a few minutes, sorta the old virtual one night stand. But the good dog fight -- there's where the old $14.95 (us) becomes good money spent.
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Originally posted by SKurj
Many non-military folks were trained how to spot enemy aircraft, in their area, in europe. Perhaps you can suspend your disbelief for a while and assume thats why the field is flashing.. The local bobbie spotted the huns overhead...
SKurj
Ok Skurj, I am well aware of the "Coast Watchers". They are way Over-Modeled here :)
Dracon
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Nopoop
The problem is one of other players "not playing your way". They're in GVs, having fun, but not your kind of fun. I once made an observation which parallels yours. Mr. Toad understands well this problem. Why not ask his advice? Wait, I have it here...
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/toadabs.jpg)
:D
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if we formed an order of the noble furballer with secret meeting places and such... we would be just as silly and pompous as the strat guys.
beetle.. you never have figured out toad have you? I think everyone else understands what he is saying. He doesn't want to tell people how to play but he would protest the implementation and using of say... the atom bomb in AH. The skilless and small minded have too much effect on too many people. Sorta like suicide gameplay. suicide the fuel... suicide the CV.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
beetle.. you never have figured out toad have you? I think everyone else understands what he is saying. He doesn't want to tell people how to play but he would protest the implementation and using of say... the atom bomb in AH. The skilless and small minded have too much effect on too many people. Sorta like suicide gameplay. suicide the fuel... suicide the CV.
lazs
Lazs! I understand the esteemed Mr. Toad perfectly. His quote comes from a thread in which I whined about gangbangery - mission editor/bardar etc.
But now the tables have turned, and it's a furballer complaining about his lot. Why should not the same advice apply? :confused:
As for the atom bomb, why shouldn't we have it? People have been pressing for the B29. You have the Me163 you asked for. Why shouldn't the buffers have their B29, with an atom bomb payload? It existed in 1945, and therefore meets AH eligibility requirements.
But like you, I hate the suicide crap. At least we can agree on something...
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yep... I asked for the 163 and... it happened. not because I asked for it or even because it had never been thought of... I'm not that pompous but.... tell me, how did the 163 effect gameplay? seems to me it just helped even things out a little.
and that's the difference... you see the atom bomb as being ok... one person using little or no skill more than learning to use a mouse... ruining the fun for dozens of guys.
the 163 on the other hand was my sugtgestion and it.... it what? it evens up the effect of dweeby fluffers milkrunning. How many people does the 163 effect? one... maybe two (who are trying to affectr dozens or more)... if... the 163 driver is skilled... if he is not then he affects no one.
see the difference?
lazs
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It's nothing to do with "how much skill is required". The B29 existed in 1945, therefore why should the buffers' requests for it to be added to the AH planeset be refused?
Attacking HQ is not milkrunning. And the 163 is available only at a single base near HQ. The 163 seems to have been released as a tool to protect HQ, nothing less, nothing more. Given that it exists, so should the B29 - replete with atom bomb.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Nopoop
The problem is one of other players "not playing your way". They're in GVs, having fun:D
Beet you crack me up. You just enjoy arguing.
If camped at a medium field at the ends of all the runways and the rear of all the fighter and bomber hangers ( a minimum of eleven GV's ) shooting spawners is in ANYWAY different than a gaggle of suicide bombers, explain it to me.
I'd really like to know.
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Originally posted by beet1e
It's nothing to do with "how much skill is required". The B29 existed in 1945, therefore why should the buffers' requests for it to be added to the AH planeset be refused?
Attacking HQ is not milkrunning. And the 163 is available only at a single base near HQ. The 163 seems to have been released as a tool to protect HQ, nothing less, nothing more. Given that it exists, so should the B29 - replete with atom bomb.
The A-Bomb affectively ended the war, and would do the same in AH. Then AH will become an A-Bomb race and have precious little to do with fighting. But those darn selfish furballers would just whine and whine...
You claim others are dictating how to have fun, but you won't see that you're doing the same thing when you destroy the arena. You're version of fun affects and limits all others. No one would give a darn about what you do if you didn't screw up their game doing it. A couple suggestions to fix this:
a) What difference does it make what the designated target for annialation is? Perhaps there can be a designated area within the arena that can be destroyed and perks awarded. Then the players who choose NOT to play your game can do so elsewhere without being disrupted by you and your real estate mongers.
b) An arena full of nice juicy bases that can be captured. All teams start out with one base and race to capture the most. When the last base is captured, the team with the most bases will win the perks. And maybe an atom bomb will be located randomly at one of the bases that can be used by the team who captures it. Great fun without the pesky interference by the furball jocks... and no 163 to worry about!
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Nopoop! :D:)
Griz - not trying to ruin anyone's fun. Just pointing out that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I don't fly buffs, but I like joining in a capture. The thing about captures in AH is that because of bardar, flashing map and "base under attack", they always end up as smashdowns.
I know quite a few buffers who have quit recently, and the 163 played no small part in their departure. Seems like the B29 would be a good balancing act...
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Originally posted by Toad
Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies. It's a game.
I saw that, and immediately flashed on a quote from an otherwise pretty forgettable movie:
"Game? This was never meant to be a game! NEVER!"
Seems to reflect the attitude of a number of the biggest whiners.
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Originally posted by nopoop
AT the base..
Multiple GV's. Had to be to ten or twelve of them spawn camping all the runway spawn points including all the hangers just sitting and killing the planes as they appeared..
What was more interesting is that this MASS of GV's saw no reason to take out the Vehicle hanger......?
..as the mass of Panzers began to appear..
I don't understand.
I think I might be playing this game wrong.
Same as you and your furballing buddies, nopoop. You poke fun at the "shed killers" and furball away, even though someone just porked your fuel.
The Osties arrived to shoot aeroplanes, not tanks or vehicle hangars.
And you're saying "you don't understand?" Lol.
curly
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A hq milkrun, yes it is a milkrun most of the time, deserves to have ONE plane piloted by ONE guy go up and kill ONE fluff at a time. One guy is affecting one guys game. He is doing it by fighting that one guy (even tho that guy has to have control of 3 planes)...
In your case of the atom bomb... the same skilless fluffer will drop one bomb and ruin the game for dozens to hundreds of players and he will have used no skill other than basic mouse weilding to do it.
That is the problem with gameplay now... we have too many little versions of the atom bomb right now... people can skillessly affect the game for dozens of folks with suicide play.
lazs
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I don't get it either.
They're having fun doing what they want to do. Whether you were hoping to find a vulch fest or a furball, doesn't matter, didn't happen, long flight in a spit, yeah that sucks. No reason to change that particular aspect of the game.
What I did read in this thread is a common desire to have a different 'dar' bar for GV's. If the flashing bases represent spotters on the ground then they would most certainly call out vehicle type and number.
Maybe this is a change coming with the new revision, who knows.
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umm...mebbe all the gv's near field were osti's, and thus not in a good position to kill VH after it popped up? (and is there ANY more fun than gettin an intact osti onto an active runway?)
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I'll withdrawl that one
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I would like to appologise for the previous post.A few to many and a bad day at work along with a general bad attitude on the day doesnt lead to good posting..My appologies to anyone offended.
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DrDea, I have to agree with you. Especially about teamwork. :(
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Just for you Doc...we have a button to enable tracers, why not a button to enable score? If you click it then you see everything in the arena. If you don't click it, then you can only see or be seen by others that checked no score.
One arena, parallel worlds, everybodys happy.
:D
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Ok... so if we have all these "score potatos"..... who, and where, are they? I don't see em. I mean.. I don't see anyone bragging about their score. Can anyone here even tell me who had the highest score last tour? I sure can't. the one before that? does anyone care who it was or even think it means anything?
The most feared players in this game have very low scores I would say.
lazs
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Originally posted by DrDea
I dont know.It seems to me that the bane of Aces High is the score system.In Air warrior the score was the thing but in some strange demented way Community was Primary over score to most.AW had an outstanding Community.AH has a veritable plethora of died in the wool score potatos. Its like he who has the tiny noodle in real life just gets the biggest thrill in life snatching a huge score in AH.Teamwork,outside of squad ops is nonexistant.The kill steals,the vulch the base while VH comes up,the vulch the base while FH's come up All you people some how discust me.If a score in an online game means that much to you to hang out the people that helped you get to that point than by all means feel free to suck on the bussiness end of My mossburg because if a game gives you that much in the jollie dept you have not and never will have a life.
You haven't got your first kill yet, have you?
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I have opinions on the way people play the game sometimes,but I generally keep them to myself.
The bottom line is they are paying and that gives them the right to play anyway they like.
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Climbing a sector and a half away on Trinity or Big Isles or Pizza takes too long. I'm getting tired of climbing for 20 minutes in a 109F before even finding anything to shoot, whereas in a Panzer I can be there lickity-split, and if the spawn is camped, all the better because then I don't even need to start the motor before being in the thick of things.
Yeah, this game is getting boring for me.
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If participating in, or getting run over by, a steamroller gangbang isn't what you find fun - AH isn't the game for you.
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All the stuff everyone is *****in about here..I saw the same things in AW for years on end.....WB....'Return-to-Castle-Wolfenstein'....theres always a percentage of pukes who want kills with absolutely no risk---orbiting 25k in 190D9...waiting to jump in on some overmatched poor slob.... If no risk is entailed getting a kill, how can it be any fediddlein fun?
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Actually the whole thing boiles down to diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.The Strat people call the furballers score potatos and the Furballers call the strat people strat girls. Im going to step away from this one because I actually did what I was despising,Trying to make others play the game a way diffrent from what they wanted to do.I dont have that right and I certainly dont have the right to bust on anyone for not wanting to play the game the way I do.
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Originally posted by DrDea
The Strat people call the furballers score potatos and the Furballers call the strat people strat girls.
The funniest thing I ever heard someone called was when a small group was "milkrunning" a base. Some guy called us a "bunch of milkmaids" - ROFL!! :D
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Originally posted by lazs2
if we formed an order of the noble furballer with secret meeting places and such... we would be just as silly and pompous as the strat guys.
beetle.. you never have figured out toad have you? I think everyone else understands what he is saying. He doesn't want to tell people how to play but he would protest the implementation and using of say... the atom bomb in AH. The skilless and small minded have too much effect on too many people. Sorta like suicide gameplay. suicide the fuel... suicide the CV.
lazs
Make perk points spendable to repair ships, facilities, etc.!
The 'Admiral' in command of the CVG uses his 'skill at naval command' (perk points) to aid his sub-commanders in their efforts to aid their damage control parties. He spends perk points to repair damage to ships, to alter ship formation ("All destroyer pickets between that airbase and the carrier!"), etc.
There's got to be tens of thousands of unused perk points floating around the AH MA.
Mike/wulfie
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Originally posted by nopoop
Enlighten me.
This may not be the case with these guys, but every once in awhile it is fun to sneak an Ostwind into an enemy airfield hangar and wreak havoc for some period of time.
Insane 10 on 10 just above the wavetops ACM is a blast but like (almost) any other thing that is fun the 42nd insane dogfight in a row can be a little tedious.
It depends on your mood. Sometimes a really good fight in AH (or back in WB) is the best thing you can remember doing on a computer. And sometimes a crazy CTF battle on a good Quake server is more fun at the time that 99% of the AH moments you remember.
Sometimes it is just fun to blow stuff up and be a biatch and enjoy the fact that you are driving the guys who vulched you last week insane as they land to rearm for 30+ kill 'sorties'...620 meters from the end of your 3.7cm FlaKs barrel.
If I was there, I would have gone 'home' and come back with some bombs and rockets and made them pay, and then gone looking for an A2A brawl on the next sortie.
Mike/wulfie
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fields too far apart make for boring and timid gameplay... some people are boring and timid so far fields suit em. most are not.
sure... perk points to repair is fine for me but it is rank not perks that put yu in comand of the CV... I wouldn't want to command the CV but I would use a couple thousand perks to repair it.... Tens of thousands.... there are guys in my squad with tens of thousands by themselves. none of us has any rank tho I don't think.
lazs
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Figures may be somewhat off but the trend is clear:
End of 2000
Peak Players: ~140 Number of fields on maps: ~35
Player:Field ~ 4:1
Late 2001
Peak Players: ~ 250 Number of fields: ~ 45
P:F ~ 5:1
Late 2002
Peak Players: 550 Number of fields: ~ 280
P:F < 2:1 (and even less when you take out V & P fields)
Add this to having fields over a sector apart and you are bound to get less action.
Now I agree we need bigger maps for more players but I think 100 or so fields would be more appropriate (and incidently much more viable during non-peak hours as well).
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Someone explain this one to me:
Chasing a Spit in my Spit last night, down on the deck in the middle of a fair sized furball. He's chasing someone else, so he's not checking his 6, letting me slide up on him.
I check my 6 and see a Pony booming in on me. I'm D400 from the Spit, Pony is D1.2 or so from from me.
Since I'm dumb, I hang on the Spit for another second and am just about to squeeze off some 20mm at him when a dialogue box pops up on my screen. It says something like:
So and so has invited you to join their squad - Accept or Decline.
So there I am. Closing on Spit with a Pony on my tail, lined up for a shot and about to break to avoid the Pony. Now I can't see because of the dialogue box, and it freaked me out so I scramble for the mouse to hit "Decline". While doing all this tracers go flying past me, take off a wing, and I go down. Elapsed time - maybe 5 seconds between the dialogue box and the kill.
And I look to the message buffer to see who got me and, surprise surprise, its the chickenhead who asked me to join their squad.
For whomever the hero was who subjected me to that last night, in my mind you are the greatest fighter pilot in history, whether virtual or otherwise. I would rank you right up there with Erich Hartmann (who I understand used the exact same tactic in each one of his 352 kills). I bow to your flying abilities, and I am not worthy of even being in the MA when you are in flight. Next time, please just send me a message so that I can bail out the moment you arrive on the scene. I beg for you to teach me the very skills which you have obtained so that I too can be as much of a chickenhead as you. Never mind common courtesy. Never mind gentlemen's conduct. Never mind any sense of honour. Please, please, please feel free to bombard me and others with requests to join your sqaud in the middle of a furball.
And instead of getting upset about all of this, once it happened, a brief vision flashed through my head of this idiot sitting at his computer with a watermelon eating grin on his face, congratulating himself on his kill, and basking in all the glory that AH must bring to his life on a regular basis.
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"....surprise surprise, its the chickenhead who asked me to join their squad. "
That's baloney (that players action, not your post). IMO you really should just tell us who it was. As long as you hide thier identity due to some perceived "correctness" there can't be any community "inquisition." And no way we can mock or make fun of them for having to use such a lame tardass ploy to get "kills."
Westy
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Originally posted by Westy
"....surprise surprise, its the chickenhead who asked me to join their squad. "
That's baloney (that players action, not your post). IMO you really should just tell us who it was. As long as you hide thier identity due to some perceived "correctness" there can't be any communitu inquisition. And no way we can mock or make fun of them for having to use such a lame tard-ploy to get "kills."
Westy
I can't remember the name, but it was one of those unpronounceable names. Something like "spqr" or something like that, but I can't exactly remember.
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I would rank you right up there with Erich Hartmann (who I understand used the exact same tactic in each one of his 352 kills).
LMFAO.I you for that quaity line and understand Erics Wife has hired Johnny Cochran to sue you for slander.Aparrently Adolph Galland will appear as an experteen witness from the grave on her behalf.Seems he only got 212 that way.
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Originally posted by DrDea
I would rank you right up there with Erich Hartmann (who I understand used the exact same tactic in each one of his 352 kills).
LMFAO.I you for that quaity line and understand Erics Wife has hired Johnny Cochran to sue you for slander.Aparrently Adolph Galland will appear as an experteen witness from the grave on her behalf.Seems he only got 212 that way.
:D
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than the story.
SPQR has no kills in a P51.
SPQR is not in a squad.
Did I miss something?
Or does SPQR deserve an apology?
HONK!
Gooss
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Someone mentioned HQ earlier.
Pointless upping to defend HQ now unless it is 2 or more boxes of buffs.
As 1 box can't affect HQ (double hardness, no partially down anymore) why bother.
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Either something is broke, and alot of those posts were showing the wrong date...or this thing got resurrected a full year to the day after it's last post... :eek:
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Ling Ting Tong ... he can never be wroooooong ......
go on and sing your sooooo-oooong ......
Ling Ting Tong ....
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Originally posted by beet1e
Nopoop
The problem is one of other players "not playing your way". They're in GVs, having fun, but not your kind of fun. I once made an observation which parallels yours. Mr. Toad understands well this problem. Why not ask his advice? Wait, I have it here...
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/toadabs.jpg)
:D
Hhhmmmmm, you're allowed to enjoy GV's ? What a concept.
Is this a flight sim or combat sim? I forget, all this "neg vibe" in the forum clouds my memory. Hi Arlo;)
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Wow, blew me away. It IS a year old thread.
I remember why I posted that thread.
Hasn't changed. If anything it's more so.
But I still find my spots.
Tonight was a blast.
Good times.
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Ok, the problem and the solution is really simple...
THE PROBLEM:
The problem is multi-faceted. We have a game that began as an air combat 'sim' that decided at some point to widen its scope in an attempt to endeavor to be all things for all people. Obviously, this is impossible to do. In even trying to accomplish this impossible feat the core component (air combat) became diluted and to some extent, especially on certain maps (ie: pizza map), superfluous.
Another problem is we have a wide range of players from the greatly experienced to the true newbie who just picked it up last week after seeing the commercial on Discovery Wings. The newbie has none of the 'old vets' sense of WW2 Combat Flight sim culture and is likely just extrapolating the same mind-set template from whatever game represents his last massively-multiplayer online gaming experience (ie: Quake/Doom).
The latest problem with the game is what I call the attempts by HT to 'socialize' the MA in the political sense. Whereby, almost all components that previously added variety, unpredictability and a requirement to adapt new and unique strategies to counter are completely removed in favor of a homogenized population where distinctions are washed away, leaving nothing but a bland, barren landscape of predictability and repitition without purpose.
THE SOLUTION:
The solution is twofold, what we as the player can do and what HTC can do. I will not address what I think HTC should do as I feel that has been covered ad nauseum in other threads. As far as what we the player can do, there are several things.
First of all, I will use myself as an example. With the exception of the first six months I played AW in 1992 I have flown as I would have if I were an actual WW2 pilot (lone wolf), to survive. Between 1992 and now there have been several versions of AW and 2 versions of AH. Many times during that period I was confronted with situations, both game based and player based, that made my particular way of enjoying the game more problematic, for me there was just one solution , adapt. This is my advice to anyone, adapt your tactics/style to accomodate the environment. Don't expect the environment to adapt to your tactics/style, it ain't gonna friggin' happen, the next ice age will happen first I promise you.
Secondly, realise your average newbie that just started last week after seeing the commercial almost certainly does not read these forums. If the way the 'new blood' plays is disconcerting to your 'old vet' sensibilities well, it's in your vested interest to indoctrinate these newbies. Take some time, make them aware of what actions are 'cool' or not, don't expect them to pick this stuff up by osmosis.
The last thing is, realise when you are the problem, I have taken many breaks over the years from a day to 2 years. Don't keep playing after the most common thing you see referenced to you on channel 200 is, "Zazen, you forget your meds today?!?!". The furstration level often reaches a point where the flaws you see in the game or the players seem far more impactfull and pronounced than they normally otherwise would. Have the introspective analysis to know when to step back from the stick, take a deep breath and re-assess what it is about this 'game' that is getting you upset and whether or not it's really worth it.
Peace!
Zazen
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I kinda think HTC should just shut off scoring for a month or two. Just to make us fly for fun rather than score.
I think it would make a world of difference once everyone stopped looking for score.
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Good Post Z
It is important to take breaks....
Sometimes I worry too much about the "War" and the "Map situation" and can affect my mood, thats when I know its time to take a few days off. Ive found the game seems alot funner when ya return, and its just fun to fly, win or lose
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The whole GV end of the system needs to be re-evaluated. No way in hell you should be able to operate tanks within 5 miles of tactical bombers without any air cover whatsoever. Biggest problem really is that there's nothing in the "food chain" to prey on GV's other than other GV's. Which is one reason for the idiocy.
A simple solution: provide a load-out for the Sturmi, Hurri IID, and Yak-9T which replaces the HE ammo in the cannons with AP. So you can't do much air-to-air, or against structures, but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover.
This could produce a subtle, but vital change. If you go to attack a base and don't have a couple tank-busters around, well, you deserve to spend 7 hours trying to take the base down as you try to bomb GV's. But if you do bring tank-busters, you best protect them.
Maybe it ain't 1000% accurate, but what we have now is really getting lame. Pork ord and tanks become virtually un-killable. The MA is sinking lower and lower on the IQ scale.
-DoK
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The whole GV end of the system needs to be re-evaluated. No way in hell you should be able to operate tanks within 5 miles of tactical bombers without any air cover whatsoever. Biggest problem really is that there's nothing in the "food chain" to prey on GV's other than other GV's. Which is one reason for the idiocy.
A simple solution: provide a load-out for the Sturmi, Hurri IID, and Yak-9T which replaces the HE ammo in the cannons with AP. So you can't do much air-to-air, or against structures, but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover.
This could produce a subtle, but vital change. If you go to attack a base and don't have a couple tank-busters around, well, you deserve to spend 7 hours trying to take the base down as you try to bomb GV's. But if you do bring tank-busters, you best protect them.
Maybe it ain't 1000% accurate, but what we have now is really getting lame. Pork ord and tanks become virtually un-killable. The MA is sinking lower and lower on the IQ scale.
-DoK
Yes it does need to be re-evaluated, getting ords dropped on your head by countless bombers & jabo's was always the norm.
" but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover"
While this is valid, this is the same reason I suggested better mobil/towable AA platforms along with more MBT's and support veh's.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The whole GV end of the system needs to be re-evaluated. No way in hell you should be able to operate tanks within 5 miles of tactical bombers without any air cover whatsoever. Biggest problem really is that there's nothing in the "food chain" to prey on GV's other than other GV's. Which is one reason for the idiocy.
A simple solution: provide a load-out for the Sturmi, Hurri IID, and Yak-9T which replaces the HE ammo in the cannons with AP. So you can't do much air-to-air, or against structures, but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover.
This could produce a subtle, but vital change. If you go to attack a base and don't have a couple tank-busters around, well, you deserve to spend 7 hours trying to take the base down as you try to bomb GV's. But if you do bring tank-busters, you best protect them.
Maybe it ain't 1000% accurate, but what we have now is really getting lame. Pork ord and tanks become virtually un-killable. The MA is sinking lower and lower on the IQ scale.
-DoK
not sure about that iv been able to disable panzer with a short burst from ether IL2 or Yak-t with ease right now
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Was there a feild capture attempt going on?
From what you discribe, thats what it sounds like.
And if there was they were doing it the smart way
If your trying to takew the feild, & the goon is only a few minutes out it makes perfect sence to camp all the runway points,aircraft hangars AND especially leave the VH up.
Immediately after a capture is usually when a base is the most vulnerable for recapture. All thats up at the city is ack and most if not all players are ending mission to land those kills,vulches, refuel,rearm etc.
Plus I dont know about rooks and bish but Knights seem to have this nasty habit of forgetting to stick around and defend a base after its taken and just moving on to the next one
Leaving the VH up enables you to have an imediate GV defence as soon as the base gets captured rather then having to wait 15 minutes for it to re-up to counter any enemy counter offencive to try to recapture the base before the city pops back up.
Any enemy GVs that happen to be up when the feild is captured can be more easily mopped up with the VH up then if its taken down too soon to capture.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The whole GV end of the system needs to be re-evaluated. No way in hell you should be able to operate tanks within 5 miles of tactical bombers without any air cover whatsoever. Biggest problem really is that there's nothing in the "food chain" to prey on GV's other than other GV's. Which is one reason for the idiocy.
A simple solution: provide a load-out for the Sturmi, Hurri IID, and Yak-9T which replaces the HE ammo in the cannons with AP. So you can't do much air-to-air, or against structures, but ah piddy da foo in a GV that gets caught without air cover.
Maybe it ain't 1000% accurate, but what we have now is really getting lame. Pork ord and tanks become virtually un-killable. The MA is sinking lower and lower on the IQ scale.
-DoK
There is an old saying that goes back to WWI and it is as true today as it was then
"the best way to kill a tank is with another tank"
There are few documented cases of fighter aircraft actually destroying Tanks. Panzers and Tigers in particular using machine gun bullets alone. Damaged yes, destroyed no. the VAST majority of tanks killed by aircraft were destroyed by bombs not bullets.
Exept with the possable exeption if the IL. And even then as its been pointed out in another forum that THAT aircraft seems to have gotten more credit then it deserved.
As the game stands now its probably pretty close to oaccurate. the best I've seen yet. Tanks can be damaged, Turrets taken out, Tracks knocked off, Engines damaged. and yes even sometimes destroyed. but the former 3 is more likely then the latter when using bullets alone. And thats the way it was.
Yes Take out ammo and tanks do get harder to kill. So do bases and CV's thats the whole point in taking out ammo.
and the more reason for people to do the unthinkable. Defending their bases from attack. Its not all THAT easy to take out all the ammo at a base thats defended. I know Ive done it. Im pretty good at it too. but its ot as simple as just flying in and pop pop pop and all the ammo is down if there are people actually defending their base
Tanks can still be damaged and sometimes destroyed by use of guns alone if you know how to do it. (most dont and thus fail) but its alot tougher without the use of other tanks.
And thats the way is supposed to be
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Originally posted by simshell
not sure about that iv been able to disable panzer with a short burst from ether IL2 or Yak-t with ease right now
Yea. specially if Im in the panzer LMAO
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Originally posted by MJHerman
I can't remember the name, but it was one of those unpronounceable names. Something like "spqr" or something like that, but I can't exactly remember.
I seriously doubt it was SPQR. If it was not, you owe him a BIG apology.
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Originally posted by Westy
"....surprise surprise, its the chickenhead who asked me to join their squad. "
That's baloney (that players action, not your post). IMO you really should just tell us who it was. As long as you hide thier identity due to some perceived "correctness" there can't be any community "inquisition." And no way we can mock or make fun of them for having to use such a lame tardass ploy to get "kills."
Westy
You should be very careful in your requests like this. Very likely in this case you've asked a question that has lead to the false accusation of an innocent person. SPQR is a bomber pilot who is not in a squad.
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you're aware the post you're quoting is a year old?
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The best solution to the GV thing would be to make their travel time to a fight at least the equivalent of an airplane's travel time to a fight.
If you play on a map where the fields are a sector apart and it takes roughly 7 minutes of cruise/climb for an average fighter to get from field A to field B, it should take a tank at least 7 minutes to get there as well. In actuality, given that tanks are at best about 1/8 th as fast as a plane in cruise climb, it should take the GV nearly an hour to get there.
Get rid of the "instant GV spawn points into battle" and you'll see a marked change in gameplay.
To me, the "instant GV spawn points into battle" would be the equivalent of instant spawning your fighter at 15K halfway between fields.
Think of the screaming if one could hit the "15K midpoint spawn" button in the airplane hangar. Yet we accept essentially the same idea for GV's without question.
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Originally posted by KurtVW
I kinda think HTC should just shut off scoring for a month or two. Just to make us fly for fun rather than score.
I think it would make a world of difference once everyone stopped looking for score.
I'd kinda like to see this done for a month myself. Might prove interesting.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
There is an old saying that goes back to WWI and it is as true today as it was then
"the best way to kill a tank is with another tank"
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And thats the way is supposed to be
True enough. The Ju-87G was so successful because of the special ammo they used in the 37mm.
All that being said, this is yet another example of how the MA favors pork-based gameplay. Send one jerk in at warp 7 to bomb and auger on the ord, and another to auger on the VH, then up a pile of GV's knowing that the airbase has nothing to defend with. So you end up with a dozen guys dumping 1000's of rounds into GV's with very little chance of success.
And, in fact, even when ord is up, you still see GV rushes on bases because the odds of killing a tank from the air even with 1000 pounders isn't that sure a thing. The GV's use no air cover - they don't need any - the odds are all in their favor.
And I won't even go into the tedious boredom of clearing the dozen GV's during the usual base capture. Not that there's anything wrong with using Osties, but that the odds of survival are so much in their favor - even with tactical bombers in the mix. Does anyone honestly think that in 1944 an Ostie would roll out in the open with 4 Tiffy's overhead? I sure don't.
It's stuff like this which adds to the foul mood of the MA.
Look ... the one plane which is pretty much useless for anything else but tank busting is the Hurri IID. Even if it isn't realistic, give us at least one plane which can reliably kill tanks from the rear quarter. Take away it's HE ammo completely so it's only is is anti-tank.
But the "food chain" is broken ... GV's need one plane which, when they see it, they know they better move or hide or do whatever they can to make themselves less of a target.
-DoK
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Originally posted by lazs2
if we formed an order of the noble furballer with secret meeting places and such... we would be just as silly and pompous as the strat guys.
lazs
You have to laugh......