Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: davidpt40 on September 06, 2003, 03:40:48 AM
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Knights have excellent cv defense. Friday morning was the second time that I had the pleasure to fly fleet-defense with other knights. CV82 was attacking a bishop base when all of a sudden the radar map lights up with red dots converging on the task force.
I launched an F4U4, 50% fuel from the CV to intercept the bogeys. Before I reached 15k, at least 5 bishop aircraft had attempted to divebomb the carrier. But the CV was still floating.
It was a massive on-going battle, and I had to land to rearm/refuel at least 4 times. Heres two of the hairiest moments I had:
Was chasing a much higher BF-110. He starts his dive directly above me. I roll my F4U4 inverted and aim at the CV. I had to have been in this guys gunsights, but over shoots me. My airspeed indicator is at 550 and climbing. The 110 appears in my sights for the briefest of moments and I open up with six 50cal machine guns. His tail section breaks off and he falls into the sea. He did not manage to drop his bombs and we were below 3k when I killed him.
I was at 15k when someone reports a low b26 formation heading for the CV. I enter into a steep dive and am already compressing when I spot the B26. He is already passing by the escort ships and is about 4 seconds away from dropping bombs. I do my best to point my nose at him, and at about 575mph, I fire and hit his right wing root. His plane falls sideways into the sea. The CV is saved :)
So in the end, I managed to get about 10 kills, 5 other knights were patrolling the skies, and we managed to capture the enemy field. WTG KNIGHTS!
Knights seem to always have volunteers who will either man the AA guns or climb to intercept very high aircraft. This was lacking when I was a bishop.
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but when knights have 50 players all is lost..........:(
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Originally posted by Overlag
but when knights have 50 players all is lost..........:(
No it's not. We have great fun, can fly the best planes really cheap, and get tons and tons of perkies. It's when we are reduced to a few bases that all is lost.
Knights are really getting good at defense!
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We have enough time in that position to practice :D
Originally posted by Grizzly
Knights are really getting good at defense!
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I sat back and watched the knights CV get sunk by just 2 bishop formations of bombers. The bishops used 2 form. of Lancasters, I should know I was in one. Me and a squad mate got all 6 bombers into the excorts before we were fired on and we sank the carrier. The only thing we encountered was AAA and there was knights all over the place. So sating the knights have great CV protection then how did 6 bombers make it through all you defenses and sink your carrier with no threats from the aircraft all around us.
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Originally posted by Warchief
I sat back and watched the knights CV get sunk by just 2 bishop formations of bombers. The bishops used 2 form. of Lancasters, I should know I was in one. Me and a squad mate got all 6 bombers into the excorts before we were fired on and we sank the carrier. The only thing we encountered was AAA and there was knights all over the place. So sating the knights have great CV protection then how did 6 bombers make it through all you defenses and sink your carrier with no threats from the aircraft all around us.
You actually only needed one formation. I think Lancasters are the most affective way to sink CVs.
The planes are usually not high enough and unable to intercept out far enough to stop bomber formations. Of course, it would be good to have a cap set up for defense, but that takes teamwork and that doesn't often happen in knight land.
It is very hard for a ship gunner to kill a high buff formation before it drops its bombs. Even if the gunner can routinely range the buffs that far out, it takes so many hits to take out a buff they usually get their bombs off. The only reliable way to defend against bomber formations is to turn the ship, and the person commanding the fleet often doesn't do it in time.
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I routinely sink Bish/Rook CV's using a lone flight of B-26's from 6-8k.
I almost never encounter fighter cap, even at this relatively low altitude, and I would estimate the CV group makes evasive turns, about 25% of the time.
Turning the CV is the most effective way to thwart my efforts, as I have to guess at where the bombs will land and where the CV will be 20-30 seconds after I drop.
IF you want you CV to go to the bottom, by all means, keep it going straight. I almost never miss in these occasions.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I routinely sink Bish/Rook CV's using a lone flight of B-26's from 6-8k.
I almost never encounter fighter cap, even at this relatively low altitude, and I would estimate the CV group makes evasive turns, about 25% of the time.
Turning the CV is the most effective way to thwart my efforts, as I have to guess at where the bombs will land and where the CV will be 20-30 seconds after I drop.
IF you want you CV to go to the bottom, by all means, keep it going straight. I almost never miss in these occasions.
1 group of 26`s sinking a cv group (dweeeeeebish) :D
well that is the game but in the real world that did not work very well did it :) ?
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The hard thing about fleet defense is you can CAP at 15K and never see the torpedo bombers sink your fleet. You definitely can't do it yourself.
A couple good ships gunners, a couple high C-Hogs and some Zealous dogfighters down low will do the trick.
My two cents;)
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Why would that be Dweebish?
I level bomb a moving target with 12,OOO lbs of Bombs. What's Dweebish?
Real world?
Since when has Aces High had anything to do with the real world?
Would you feel better if I dropped an extra 12,000 lbs of ordinance around the CV?
I must have missed something here.
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
The hard thing about fleet defense is you can CAP at 15K and never see the torpedo bombers sink your fleet. You definitely can't do it yourself.
A couple good ships gunners, a couple high C-Hogs and some Zealous dogfighters down low will do the trick.
My two cents;)
I've never even hit a ship with a torpedo.I think I read somewhere that to compress time and increase speed of the CV's they move at 3 times real speed, while torpedos move at the real life speed.
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At least the CVs move in this game. In "Air Warrior" they stayed perfectly still.
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Yeah you could turn the ship. But that wont work against my squad. Our typical anti-ship package includes 2-4 formations of lancasters. We do NOE from long ranges. Alot of time we are thought to be torp planes and left to ship gunners. And the gunners on thisp can only knock a couple and few bobmers get there regardless to drop there payload.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I've never even hit a ship with a torpedo.I think I read somewhere that to compress time and increase speed of the CV's they move at 3 times real speed, while torpedos move at the real life speed.
I believe they move at 25 knots... about real speed.
It's just hard to hit a CV that is either driving away from you or turning with torpedos since they have to be in the water for so long. I don't know what was most effective against CVs.... bombs from fighter/bombers or torps from them. I believe the torps would only be effective as a suprise (like from a sub) or against a dead in the water or pre-occupied ship.
MiniD
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Mini-
I could have sworn I read somewhere on these boards that the CV group actually outruns torps.
It had something to do with time compression, and a game play concession to get the CV in position faster.
Someone of experience in the game said you could fire a torp dead six into a CV from 5 feet behind it, and it will never catch it.
Maybe true, maybe not...I jsut read it here on the BBS awhile ago.
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Dead 6 is a bad place to launch the torps. The main point being that they'd only be 10 or 15 mph faster than the CV (just a guess... but think torps were around 30-50 knots). If you're dropping from 1 mile away, the torp will not get there before running out of fuel.
A broadside attack is difficult to time, but is the best way to overcome the situation. The problem I see with most attacks is that people launch their torps right at the CV instead of well ahead of it.
Head on attacks are also an effective way to get the torps there if the CV isn't turning. I don't know if HTC models the inefectiviness of a strike in the heaviest armored part of the ship, but I'd tend to think they don't.
MiniD
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Dunno about Knight defense but I can tell you for sure that AKcurly has killing them down to a science. Dunno what it is but he finds something about them highly offensive (kinda like how I feel about nikis) and rarely misses an opportunity to take one out. I can't remember him missing.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Dunno about Knight defense but I can tell you for sure that AKcurly has killing them down to a science. Dunno what it is but he finds something about them highly offensive (kinda like how I feel about nikis) and rarely misses an opportunity to take one out. I can't remember him missing.
Died once last night due to ram and flew as a knit. Funny but when we fly I seem to see more rooks/bish dying then we do. Intresting point though.
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I should clarify, I meant Curly kills CVs, not Knights. He doesn't seem to have a preferrence of rook or knight.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Turning the CV is the most effective way to thwart my efforts, as I have to guess at where the bombs will land and where the CV will be 20-30 seconds after I drop.
Actually, if you can get a vis on the formation in your bombsight long enough before your drop point, and the formation doesn't turn, you can calibrate your bombsight on the formation itself, and you'll be accurate. The bombsight calibrates on the basis of your altitude and the relative movement of your plane and the sight mark point; if you calibrate on a moving target point, your sight will be calibrated for that moving target -- as long as it doesn't maneuver.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Turning the CV is the most effective way to thwart my efforts, as I have to guess at where the bombs will land and where the CV will be 20-30 seconds after I drop.
how can you miss a turning cv? cv cant turn fast enough to make your bombs miss
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Why would that be Dweebish?
I level bomb a moving target with 12,OOO lbs of Bombs. What's Dweebish?
Real world?
Since when has Aces High had anything to do with the real world?
Would you feel better if I dropped an extra 12,000 lbs of ordinance around the CV?
I must have missed something here.
In the real world, a formation of three bombers wouldn't get within 20 miles of a carrier before the Ready Alert fighters dusted their britches. Moreover, if you think the ack around the AH CVs is awesome, real CVs could put nearly an order of magnitude more ordnance into the sky.
Also during WWII, not one carrier (American or Japanese) was so much as hit by level bombers, much less sunk.
The game represents fiction, nothing close to reality when it comes to CVs. CVs within 50 miles of mainland Japan was unheard of. Here they use them like LSTs and drive 'em right up on the beach.
But, what the hell, this is an alternate reality anyway.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by AKIron
Dunno about Knight defense but I can tell you for sure that AKcurly has killing them down to a science. Dunno what it is but he finds something about them highly offensive (kinda like how I feel about nikis) and rarely misses an opportunity to take one out. I can't remember him missing.
When Curly drops on a CV he knows exactly how to avoid letting the ship's guns get a shot at him. There is a small area where the guns can't aim.
He will also appear to start his drop over the front gun and be over the rear gun when he pickles his eggs. The front gunner thinks he will get a shot but then will have to jump to rear, but won't have time to raise the guns. If there is already a rear gunner, it's likely he will be focused elsewhere.
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Originally posted by Grizzly
When Curly drops on a CV he knows exactly how to avoid letting the ship's guns get a shot at him. There is a small area where the guns can't aim.
He will also appear to start his drop over the front gun and be over the rear gun when he pickles his eggs. The front gunner thinks he will get a shot but then will have to jump to rear, but won't have time to raise the guns. If there is already a rear gunner, it's likely he will be focused elsewhere.
I dont understand how they can hit a turning cv with level boomers ? I just dont feels right.
Only way to get a cv group should be with dive/torpedo attacks not a formation with b26`s or 17`s that just dont sound right in my ears, cause there is no whay they should be able to aim it. (when turning)
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Originally posted by Mini D
Dead 6 is a bad place to launch the torps. The main point being that they'd only be 10 or 15 mph faster than the CV (just a guess... but think torps were around 30-50 knots). If you're dropping from 1 mile away, the torp will not get there before running out of fuel.
A broadside attack is difficult to time, but is the best way to overcome the situation. The problem I see with most attacks is that people launch their torps right at the CV instead of well ahead of it.
Head on attacks are also an effective way to get the torps there if the CV isn't turning. I don't know if HTC models the inefectiviness of a strike in the heaviest armored part of the ship, but I'd tend to think they don't.
MiniD
The Carriers are faster than the torps in AH. The PT boats are also faster than the torps in AH. We have German torps I believe, the R/L electric ones ran at 30 kts while the steam driven ones ran at 44 kts.
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When it comes to CV's, I wish AH leaned a little more to the R/L side.
IIRC, high alt bombing of a CV was so difficult, skip bombing was used to sink shipping.
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The CV is running at 25 knots... is it not?
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
The CV is running at 25 knots... is it not?
MiniD
i dunno, but its got a bloody good turn rate....
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Originally posted by trolla
I dont understand how they can hit a turning cv with level boomers ? I just dont feels right.
Only way to get a cv group should be with dive/torpedo attacks not a formation with b26`s or 17`s that just dont sound right in my ears, cause there is no whay they should be able to aim it. (when turning)
I was speaking of dive bombing.