Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Crowwe on September 06, 2003, 01:24:40 PM
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I can't figure out why I have more trouble downing B26s than B17s. Whats the reason for this? Does anyone have any tips for downing B26s?
It seems to me the B26s have a bit more armor and their guns deal a little more damage.
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The B-26 defensive guns, cover a much greater arc, IMO, than a Lancaster which has simular defensive gun positions. Also, they are actually pretty fast.
So often, people thinking that the B-26s do not have enough belly protection as the Lancaster does not, think they can approach safely from low 6 to the belly position.
However, if the alignment is anything less than perfect with the flightpath of the B-26, the interceptor will most likely face multiple .50s, since one of the gun either on port or starboard fuselage, will cover the firing arc.
So if to avoid that, an interceptors lines up perfectly from low-6 - then he'll face one less .50, but it will be a very easy aim for the rear gunner.
Now, that's against one B-26. If the B-26 is in a formation, the three planes cover a pretty huge area, even the low-6 positions - so practically there's no real 'safe' entry for an interceptor against a B-26 - the best chance is to fly a plane with big powerful guns, and have a massive alt/speed advantage, so the interceptor can damage the buff severly with a very quick burst on target.
In any plane that might require an actual 'aim' and a long 'burst' against a buff, it is most likely the plane will be shot down the moment he stops maneuvering, and lines up his shot.
The B-26, aside the B-17, has got the nastiest defensive system of them all.
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Speed. It's easy to get into a good attacking position on a lumbering B-17, but much more difficult on a fast 26. People seem to get impatient and eventually pull a dead 6 attack that gets them killed.
Ki-67's are the same way. I attack the fast twin buffs far more carefully than the slow 4 engined heavies, despite their lighter armament.
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The b-26 is the most durable bomber in the AH planeset. While a b17 or lancaster can absorb more damage, the much smaller size of the b26 makes the high speed short firing time passes which are so effective against the big b17s and lancs, much tougher to land.
Plus as was mentioned, the b26 is faster than a 17, and has as good or better armament than the b17. While it lacks a ball turret, the waist guns can reach almost straight down, which in a formation is almost as good. What IMO makes the b26's armament superior to the 17, is the insane amount of ammo in the tail gun, something like two or three times as much. So you can be a lot less carefull about what you shoot at.
It's also noteworthy that the b26 had the lowest loss rate of any american bomber.
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Does anyone have any tips for downing B26s?
Shoot a wingtip off, they go right down :)
Gunner
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Patience is the key to killing any bomber. Never attack from directly behind, or from behind at all.
If you want to see how to kill one then take one up and attack the enemy a few times. They usually give free lessons! :D
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B26s seem to have a bigger defensive arc in the front then does the lanc, which is strange considering the lanc has a turret and the 26 has a .50 stuck out a hole in the plexiglass. But maybe its just me. But best attack is from low 1 or 11.
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Why bother with buffs at all? They rarely hit anything and the computer aided gun covergence always seems to focus on the head of my pilot with stunning accuracy.
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~!
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Originally posted by Gixer
Why bother with buffs at all? They rarely hit anything and the computer aided gun covergence always seems to focus on the head of my pilot with stunning accuracy.
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~!
I dunno about "rarely hit anything," last night I was on climbout for a jabo run when I was bounced by the escort for a single bomber trio. That solo pilot in the bomber was able to drop half his bombs on the ammo bunker and half on the barracks.
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tip 1...fly something with cannons...the more the better...
tip 2...if you end up in a dead six position BREAK OFF...nothing good can come of this
tip3...attack while the buff appears to be doing some form of manouvering...the pilot is piloting so you should be able to get a few shots in before guns start firing...similarily while the guns are going the plane wont manouver
tip 4...bnz them from 10:00-2:00...on the b26 you only really have to worry about the top ball turret...the waist guns are behind and below the wings...so they wont be able to get that great of a shot...
tip 5...bring a friend
tip 6...aim for the turret with the first few shots then start shooting the wings...
thats what i do anyway...its worked on 2 of the greatest buff pilots in the game so there must be something im doing right...
remember the b26 is the hardest to shootdown buffs in the game...
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While at another base a single Tiffie was able to destroy the VH,all the fuel,radar and get a couple vulches.
Unfortunetly for buffs there aren't any real "strat" targets to speak of that they are usefull for destroying. That a Jabo or two can't do and quicker.
And are often seen trying to carpet bomb fields from 500 feet or my personal favourite dive bombing lances taking out a CV.
Of course there are a few, that can pickle a hanger with 3 bombs from 10,000 feet, which is great to watch but unfortunetly most buffers fall into the earlier catagory.
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~
Originally posted by mos
I dunno about "rarely hit anything," last night I was on climbout for a jabo run when I was bounced by the escort for a single bomber trio. That solo pilot in the bomber was able to drop half his bombs on the ammo bunker and half on the barracks.
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Originally posted by Gixer
Why bother with buffs at all?
Because when you're in a cannon equipped plane, and you have the technique down, killing buffs is safe, fun, and three easy kills.
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Generally, B26s are easy. Low 6 approach. Avoid the tail gun. Fly under them until they are almost in your overhead view. WEP, pull up and blast a wing off. Rinse and repeat as needed :). The only ones that are tough are the ones getting grass stains on the bombbay doors.
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Originally posted by vorticon
remember the b26 is the hardest to shootdown buffs in the game...
LOL! B-26 isn't any harder to shoot down than a Boston or a Super Fortress. If you came at it correctly, it will die just as easy as any other bomber in AH.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Crowwe
I can't figure out why I have more trouble downing B26s than B17s. Whats the reason for this? Does anyone have any tips for downing B26s?
It seems to me the B26s have a bit more armor and their guns deal a little more damage.
Attack the B-26s as you would any bomber in AH. Come in from above at a steep angle and aim your nose at a spot between the top turret and cockpit. At that speed and dive angle, the guns on the bomber will have a tough time tracking you properly and your rounds will impact in the cockpit/wing root area doing critical damage. If you're in a cannon equipped plane, usually the first burst is enough to remove a wing at the wing root. If you do it right, you can take out an entire formation in 2-3 passes. Another tip is to always go for the lead bomber or whichever bomber is player controlled.
ack-ack
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Exactly what NB said.
B-26's are easy meat (most bombers are except the B17 if the pilot is any good) after you get used to coming in on thier low end or sides. I prefer coming at any bomber them from thier 3 or 9 oclock and just under thier wing level so the upper turret can't get a bead. If it's a B-17 I "porpoise" in on them so they can't which gun to man. But if you take a B-26 for a few sorties you'll find out real fast what gun positions they can and cannot hit you from.
Westy
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I gotta completly disagree with the low attacks. They're good against planes with no belly protection, but only give you one good shot. Usually if you dont kill the bomber in that pass, you'll driift into a 6 o clock position and thats the end of you.
The best way to attack a bomber is high speed steep diving attacks from the 9, 11, 1 and 6 o clock positions. It gives the gunners a very difficult shot, and puts you in a good position to make multiple passes.
My personal favorite is to lead the plane, and fly a straight course(ideallly perpendicular to the bombers course) so the bomber will fly close(200 yards or closer) past my nose, with me passing him just behind it's tail. The lead can be difficult to judge, but it gives you a solid(if short) fiiring opportunity, while making it quite hard for the gunner to track you.
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Tell you what, B26s give me the least trouble (besides bostons of course, but when the hell do you ever see those?)
I'll grab a G10 with gondies and give em hell.. once i bagged a 9 kill sortie with a DT, killin the same guy's formation 3 times (2 reloads)
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lol...b26 can be hard if the guy piloting it knows what hes doing...a lot hard than b17s anyway...
oh and dead six positions (i mean REALLY DEAD ^) are quite good for anything with 1 gun and a bloody big arsed tail right in hte way of the dead 6 shots
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Hush vorticon!
Dead 6 approaches are the best, most reliable way to kill any buff! Slow is the way to go, any never fire outside D500, ensuring you'll get a deadly shot on the nme ;)
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ive killed someone from 1.3k out in a b26:D but iim not good in the plane so i cant tell you anything.
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Originally posted by vorticon
lol...b26 can be hard if the guy piloting it knows what hes doing...a lot hard than b17s anyway...
I guess I've been lucky that I've never run into a bomber pilot that seems to know what he's doing or maybe I just know what I'm doing.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Dead 6 approaches are the best, most reliable way to kill any buff! Slow is the way to go, any never fire outside D500, ensuring you'll get a deadly shot on the nme ;)
ROFLMAO!!
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That would make a great tag-line Ack-Ack. :D
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Nah AKAK.. we just don't get much praxtice with lead other than the guys that like to crawl up the bellybutton of a buff. When someone 'orbits' our buffs, or looks for a good attack.. we resist the temptation to bail.. ;)
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Once B26 was too slow.. I went down on one, but came too fast and I flew past, underneath it, came back up, deciding to give it fatal blow through the bottom from directly below, but it appeared I didn't have enough time to do that and I whizzed by the nose.
then I wondered where the B26 dissapeared - obviously I had timed the 400kph pass so well that I hit him in his FE... duh
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Great fun : Someone calling you over the radio that he'll do a feint attack so you get to give the killing blow.
Fun : Circling a Buff formation in a P-51B knowing you'll have a hard time, then seeing them fly into a mountain so you'll get three safe kills :D
No fun : Finding a Buff formation with a G-10 with 30mm, I can't hit ***** with that, at least not when doing a good (=not dead 6) attack.
Absolutely no fun : Climbing and chasing a buff formation up to 15k or more, getting close and seeing the SOB disco before your eyes.
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If you want to see how to kill one then take one up and attack the enemy a few times. They usually give free lessons!
ROFL
:D
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I honestly have to laugh at the posts in this thread........Gixer,my friend, I am so surprised at your opinion of the B-26 pilot...I'm shocked!
As for the rest of you who think that you can simply knock them down.........look me up, I'll gladly show you what a B-26 (deathstar) can do! There are only two pilots in this game I respectively fear when they attack me, and no I am not about to tell who...........(in George seniors best voice) .............
"It just wouldn't be prudent!"
Seriously though, I love to fly many different aircraft, but above all the B-26 is my favorite! Once its abilities are known, it becomes very formidable.
GreyghostII (AKA Plumbit)
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Just for kicks sometime AKAK, go to the DA with plumbit. Try to shoot down his B26 formation :lol
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I already have, though I did come out with a few dings.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by JB42
Just for kicks sometime AKAK, go to the DA with plumbit. Try to shoot down his B26 formation :lol
Formations are disabled in the DA. At least they are currently. ;)
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Originally posted by greyghostII
I honestly have to laugh at the posts in this thread........Gixer,my friend, I am so surprised at your opinion of the B-26 pilot...I'm shocked!
As for the rest of you who think that you can simply knock them down.........look me up, I'll gladly show you what a B-26 (deathstar) can do! There are only two pilots in this game I respectively fear when they attack me, and no I am not about to tell who...........(in George seniors best voice) .............
"It just wouldn't be prudent!"
Seriously though, I love to fly many different aircraft, but above all the B-26 is my favorite! Once its abilities are known, it becomes very formidable.
GreyghostII (AKA Plumbit)
AS is killing it. The one plane I underestimate the most is the damn JU88, one ping rad hits in the dora piss me off but that plane just has it out for me sometime. B-26 well there are 2 ways to attack it and you will win each time you do it. :p
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With B17s and Lancasters I go for wingtips. With B26s I go for the tail. The tail on a B26 seems to come off easily.
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Tour 43:
phantom4 has 43 kills and has been killed 10 times against the B-17G.
phantom4 has 39 kills and has been killed 11 times against the B-26B.
phantom4 has 26 kills and has been killed 7 times against the Lancaster III.
phantom4 has 48 kills and has been killed 5 times against the Ju 88.
phantom4 has 11 kills and has been killed 2 times against the Ki-67.
That in an FM2 which is a slow, low alt fighter with only 4 - .50's
Buffs ARE hard to kill and good buff pilots ARE deadly - but they are not invincible and you don't have to fly some late model canon armed monster to down then (it just helps;) )
It does take patience, planing, and good gunnery - none of which I possess :lol
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"As for the rest of you who think that you can simply knock them down.........look me up, I'll gladly show you what a B-26 (deathstar) can do!"
SCHWING!!!! A challenge :) Now this is something worth wading into the MA for.
Notice is hereby given - > If you see a Yak-9T closing in on you get ready for a major slap down. And don't bail to avoid your "deserveds.". I'll shoot you in your chute for spite and grins :)
Westy
(bet Blckmgc thinks I'm a "meany" now!)
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"tip3...attack while the buff appears to be doing some form of manouvering...the pilot is piloting so you should be able to get a few shots in before guns start firing...similarily while the guns are going the plane wont manouver"
Its also good to shoot at the bombers while they are about to fly over there target(usually a field) because most likely, the pilot is in the bomb site instead of any of the gunner positions.
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This is exactly what we want you to think! Beware ! Never Assume anything with a B-26.
As for a challenge.......Hmmm, always stands! Always has!
Plumbit
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Originally posted by Phantom4-Mag33
Tour 43:
phantom4 has 43 kills and has been killed 10 times against the B-17G.
phantom4 has 39 kills and has been killed 11 times against the B-26B.
phantom4 has 26 kills and has been killed 7 times against the Lancaster III.
phantom4 has 48 kills and has been killed 5 times against the Ju 88.
phantom4 has 11 kills and has been killed 2 times against the Ki-67.
That in an FM2 which is a slow, low alt fighter with only 4 - .50's
Buffs ARE hard to kill and good buff pilots ARE deadly - but they are not invincible and you don't have to fly some late model canon armed monster to down then (it just helps;) )
Hmmm...looking over my Tour 43 stats against buffs show:
B-17: 35 kills - 2 deaths (GV)
B-26B: 18 kills - 1 death (GV)
Ju88: 11 kills - 1 death (PT boat)
Lancaster: 16 kills - 1 death (collision)
Ki-67: 9 kills - 0 deaths
Yeah, buffs are really hard to kill .
ack-ack
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Yeah, buffs are really hard to kill .
Never said they were, only that most underestimate their abilities. Most missions I dont survive, but neither do 90% of those who attack. When I go up, Im looking for attacks, its what makes it worthwhile, and if I land all those kills, hey thats the icing!
Plumbit
P.S. If you have been killed by me, consider yourselves "PLUMBED"!
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B26's are meat on the table, whoever is flying 'em. Tour 42 was the last time I got near a reasonable amount of them with fighters and I scored 15:0. Most of my deaths against them are from me getting fixated and ramming them. If you are a little bit patient and know the tricks, bombers are easy kills. :D
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" bombers are easy kills."
Like hitting a bus with a snow ball. ;)
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Now that would make a good tag line :)
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Hmmm...looking over my Tour 43 stats against buffs show:
B-17: 35 kills - 2 deaths (GV)
B-26B: 18 kills - 1 death (GV)
Ju88: 11 kills - 1 death (PT boat)
Lancaster: 16 kills - 1 death (collision)
Ki-67: 9 kills - 0 deaths
Yeah, buffs are really hard to kill .
ack-ack
Ack-ack is dead on. Killing buffs is all about methodology. Get your tactics worked out and they are of little danger. Do it wrong and you'll die. I stand at 104/1 against the "big three", B-17, B-26 and Lancaster (lost one to a collision IIRC) over the past 1.5 tours, including 10 with the relatively poorly armed P-51B. So, it really doesn't matter what you fly so much as how you fly. Diving attacks, belly attacks and flanks attacks work well. Just make sure to make each pass from a different angle, but never from the rear of the quadrant.
My regards,
Widewing