Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 10Bears on September 06, 2003, 03:49:40 PM
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First, it is clear the US authorities did little or nothing to pre-empt the events of 9/11. It is known that at least 11 countries provided advance warning to the US of the 9/11 attacks. Two senior Mossad experts were sent to Washington in August 2001 to alert the CIA and FBI to a cell of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation (Daily Telegraph, September 16 2001). The list they provided included the names of four of the 9/11 hijackers, none of whom was arrested.
It had been known as early as 1996 that there were plans to hit Washington targets with aeroplanes. Then in 1999 a US national intelligence council report noted that "al-Qaida suicide bombers could crash-land an aircraft packed with high explosives into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the CIA, or the White House".
Fifteen of the 9/11 hijackers obtained their visas in Saudi Arabia. Michael Springman, the former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah, has stated that since 1987 the CIA had been illicitly issuing visas to unqualified applicants from the Middle East and bringing them to the US for training in terrorism for the Afghan war in collaboration with Bin Laden (BBC, November 6 2001). It seems this operation continued after the Afghan war for other purposes. It is also reported that five of the hijackers received training at secure US military installations in the 1990s (Newsweek, September 15 2001).
Whoa!, this story is raging across Europe but not one story about it in the US press.. Why is that?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,1036685,00.html
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because its still in the x-files :D
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Old News, Please try and keep up....
www.cnn.com (http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/)
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Shaddap, stupid....
(http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/images/wtc_collapse1.jpg)
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Originally posted by Gadfly
Old News, Please try and keep up....
www.cnn.com (http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/)
Hey Gadfly I clicked on your link and ten windows poped up... It wasn't cnn.com at all.. Why did you do that?
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Let me tell you a secret of the internet:
When you mouseover a link, look at the bottem of your browser, it will tell you the actual address. And it only pops up one ad, and is the source for your information, anyway.
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Not it isn't. It's the Guardian. It says so right on the link, and you don't even have to read it at bottom of the IE windows.
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The guy who wrote that is an idiot and I hope he commits suicide as well. However it would be my honor to torture and kill him.
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can anyone really believe an administration would allow such an attack to happen?
guess some can, some don't believe we went to the moon either
:confused:
hindsight is 20/20
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I don't know if the war on terrorism is bogus other than the fact they'll never be able to prove they've won it.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I don't know if the war on terrorism is bogus other than the fact they'll never be able to prove they've won it.
I think we win everyday that passes that we do not experience another 9/11 or worse on our soil
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I predict that after terrorists, the evil spineless nazis fat arses will be dealt with.
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America took care of those 50 years ago. :) But the new thinking by UK MPs is that was was all a pretesnse for the USA to steal nazi rocket technology. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
America took care of those 50 years ago. :)
The US was not the only country to fight against Germany in WWII. Nor was it the first to join the fight.
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Originally posted by Pei
The US was not the only country to fight against Germany in WWII. Nor was it the first to join the fight.
No, but we sure turned the tide of the war.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The guy who wrote that is an idiot and I hope he commits suicide as well. However it would be my honor to torture and kill him.
Spoken like a true freedom loving citizen, nice one.
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Thank you Mr. Anarchist... Now go be a good citizen and terrorize some poor McDonalds franchisee.
BTW Anarchists or those whob toy with such things are the worlds greatest thoughtless narrow minded idiots...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The guy who wrote that is an idiot and I hope he commits suicide as well. However it would be my honor to torture and kill him.
Gurn, do you know who Michael Meacher is?
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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Sir Winston Churchill
Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed.
Sir Winston Churchill
All terrorist, read and heed Sir Winston's words.
:D
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Pei without the USA WW2 was unwinnable for the allies. Germany migh not have won outright but they would have kept continental europe. Even the soviets could not have beat them alone not to mention if Japan wasnt busy battling the US.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
Gurn, do you know who Michael Meacher is?
Who? if hes the guy who wrote the article then hes a dipcht...
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Some foreigner you've never heard of writes something critical of your country and your volunteering to torture and kill him. Seems pretty narrow minded to me.
The widow and daughter of the weapons expert who comitted suicide have been all over the media this week in the UK, thats probably why I found your first post unbelievably thoughtless and reacted the way I did.
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Well obviously the old guy felt remorse for his crimes and decided to end his life... And now his family is forced to pay the price for his misdeeds., Its very sad I agree. :(
As for the torture thing I admit its quite an overreaction. Lets say i'll be happy to escort him to the mental instituon of his choice for a thurough workover. Hes obviously crazy. :mad:
BTW he didnt merely write something critical about my country - he said my country allowed an attack to happend that by all reasonable guesses could have killed 20,000 or more americans if it was not for the heroism of FDNY and NYPD and NYNJ port authority rescuers and brave civilans.
So thats why I hate his fcking guts so much...
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For Trikky and 10Bears!
''There are too many people who imagine that there is something sophisticated about always believing the best of those who hate your country, and the worst of those who defend it"
Margaret Thatcher - a brave woman who saved the UK from communism and union encouraged economic stagnation.
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He's a former minster for the Blare Gov.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
He's a former minster for the Blare Gov.
Former? WTG Tony Blair! :)
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10Bears lets stop jerking off here.
Yes/No Do you belive the US govt knowingly allowed sept 11 to happend?
Right now, do you belive that. YES or NO
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lol thanks for that. Just what I needed, being quoted Maggie Thatcher is an anarchists wet dream ;)
Seriously, it seems he committed suicide because he felt betrayed and publicly humiliated by the Government and felt his reputation had been destroyed. There were no crimes to speak of except perhaps a lack of judgement.
Your right, the other guy was more than critical. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was admitted somewhere, as he does seem to be frothing at the mouth.
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I knew youd like it. :)
The old guy obviously was conflicted with what he did and later how it turned out, the whole thgings sucks. But maybe if he had decided not to leak classified info to the bbc it would not have happend. As it turns out now apprently there was no "sexing up" of the intel and the bbc is considering firing the reporter for inconsitencies in his story. But the old guy is dead and his familiy is sad.. :( Damn blabbering lying bbc reporter.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Pei without the USA WW2 was unwinnable for the allies. Germany migh not have won outright but they would have kept continental europe. Even the soviets could not have beat them alone not to mention if Japan wasnt busy battling the US.
Without The UK and in particular the USSR the War could not have been won: the US couldn't have done it by itself. The attitude that the US won the War by itself is incredible insulting to those of us outside the US who lost family members.
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Of course not. But they would have been in far worse sahpe without the USA. Russia would have been defeated without. In fact they were nearly at the end of their manpower in 1944 as it was imagine if there was no western front. And no serious western offenive was possible withput the USA either in NE, Italy even NA.
No single power or alliance of nations was in a position to defeat germany without the USA taking part.
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Originally posted by Pei
Without The UK and in particular the USSR the War could not have been won: the US couldn't have done it by itself. The attitude that the US won the War by itself is incredible insulting to those of us outside the US who lost family members.
It's easy to say what would or wouldn't have happened, but it's all just speculation.
What DID happen, though, was everyone getting their butts kicked, including the Russians, until we entered the war.
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Martlet that isn't quite true:
The US got it's arse kicked in the pacific until Midway and the UBoat war in the Atlantic went badly for the allies until 1943.
I'm not saying that the US wasn't the major player (particularly in terms of arms and global presence, if not number of troops). I am saying that victory in WWII was achived by the Allies, and considering how slim some of the margins were (for example at the Normandy beachhead) every ally was vital.
The US did not and could not win the War by itself, neither could any of the others either. The tendancy of a small minority of Americans to consider everone else as a bit player, if at all, is not only wrong but highly offensive (I am tempted to think deliberately so by some people on this board ). Some countries fought longer against greater odds, scarificing more lives, wealth and materiel in terms of the size of thier populations (and came out of the War in a much worse state becuase of it).
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That isn't true at all. We got caught sleeping at Pearl Harbor, and that set us back. We were ill equipped to enter the war. Sheer stupidity on our part. Once we got the war machine rolling we kicked butt on BOTH fronts. At the same time.
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I think the best thing that can be said about the US's 4th quarter appearance in the war in Europe is that it at least gave the Germans someone else to surrender to. Rather than the Soviets, who would have just as soon shot them in the face before raping and pillaging the rest of Germany.
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
I think the best thing that can be said about the US's 4th quarter appearance in the war in Europe is that it at least gave the Germans someone else to surrender to. Rather than the Soviets, who would have just as soon shot them in the face before raping and pillaging the rest of Germany.
Until the US entered the war, the allies were getting their butts kicked. Including the Russians.
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Erlkoning your hatred for this country is simply stunning.
And dont give me any of this "i'm a patriot becuse I love to criticize my country" bull**** either. You spare no opportunity to bash American contribution and culture no matter what and when. You are sick.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Erlkoning your hatred for this country is simply stunning.
And dont give me any of this "i'm a patriot becuse I love to criticize my country" bull**** either. You spare no opportunity to bash American contribution and culture no matter what and when. You are sick.
I agree. You can tell when someone's hatred blurs reason when they can't even give credit where it's due.
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You're a small man, 10bears. Crawl back into your hole.
SOB
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What utter rubbish.
What Pei posted was entirely correct.
The first German defeats were by Soviet, and Commonwealth forces, and both of these armies were the ones to 'turn' the tide against the Germans on those respective fronts.
The Australians were the ones who stopped the Japanese army advance in the pacific fighting over the Owen Stanely ranges.
If I remember correctly the US spent a large part of 1942 retreating just like everyone else had.
At least Pei had the decency to remember the large part Everyone on the allied side played.
A decency that some fail to have.
Tronsky
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Originally posted by -tronski-
What utter rubbish.
What Pei posted was entirely correct.
The first German defeats were by Soviet, and Commonwealth forces, and both of these armies were the ones to 'turn' the tide against the Germans on those respective fronts.
The Australians were the ones who stopped the Japanese army advance in the pacific fighting over the Owen Stanely ranges.
If I remember correctly the US spent a large part of 1942 retreating just like everyone else had.
At least Pei had the decency to remember the large part Everyone on the allied side played.
A decency that some fail to have.
Tronsky
Not surprisingly, you DON'T remember correctly. The US won the battle of Coral Sea in May of 1942, then ended the Japanese advance on June 8th of 1942 with the victory at midway. The fighting at Owen Stanley ranges didn't begin until the end of July, 1942.
While the allies in Europe certainly had some victories, when the US entered the war, London was still being bombarded and the Russians were still evacuating cities.
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And we must believe everything we read:
The OMEGA File
THE BEGINNING
"...Another figure has an EVIL face... 'HE LOOKS LIKE A GERMAN NAZI. HE'S A NAZI... HIS EYES! HIS EYES. I'VE NEVER SEEN EYES LIKE THAT BEFORE!!!"
The above quote was made under regressive hypnosis by one of the first publicized 'UFO abductees', Barney Hill who -- along with his wife Betty -- claimed to have been abducted by grey-skinned entities from a space craft which apparently originated from the Zeta II Reticuli star system. The Grey alien abductors were obviously working with the human military officer who was encountered by Barney. This military officer was apparently a full-fledged Nazi, although this incident took place over 15 years after Europe had 'supposedly' been de-Nazified. This quote can be found in the paranormal encyclopedia "MYSTERIES OF THE MIND, TIME & SPACE", p. 1379.
The Omega File (http://www.beyondweird.com/ufos/Branton_The_Omega_File_Part_1_The_Beginning.html)
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GRUNHERZ, I think I've mentioned this before, but your "you hate America, you just hate it! " line is getting more than a little tired and hollow (as well as being a lie, in this case). The Soviet Union won the war in Europe more than anyone else. That is a fact. I'm sorry you don't like it, but it's true. Maybe you and Martlette can go form a therapy group.
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Without the USA the soviets would have lost.
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
GRUNHERZ, I think I've mentioned this before, but your "you hate America, you just hate it! " line is getting more than a little tired and hollow (as well as being a lie, in this case). The Soviet Union won the war in Europe more than anyone else. That is a fact. I'm sorry you don't like it, but it's true. Maybe you and Martlette can go form a therapy group.
or, you can pick up a history book and get your facts together.
Perhaps you'd like to through a few of them out here, so we all can be enlightened, thus saving the money on the therapy group.
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you helped turn the tide by being able to supply us (as in the rest of the allies) with new troops...
remember...this history that is taught in america is different than that wich is taught in britain...or russia...
and dont forget...america is just over 200 years old...that puts it (in prespective to most other nations ages) right about in the middle of the rebelious teenager stage...
there we go...
and may i remind you
(http://www.goldcrownjewelers.com/hook.jpg)
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It would have been dicey, but we probably should have delcared War on the USSR at the same time as the Nazis.
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Originally posted by vorticon
you helped turn the tide by being able to supply us (as in the rest of the allies) with new troops...
remember...this history that is taught in america is different than that wich is taught in britain...or russia...
and dont forget...america is just over 200 years old...that puts it (in prespective to most other nations ages) right about in the middle of the rebelious teenager stage...
Wathout, the rich kid will come and bully you for that :D
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The USA is older than most nation states in the world...
Name the countries in Europe today that have had 230 years of continous goverment and organization as a state?
And dont give me that superior sophisticated 0europe culture argument because thats one trud that doesnt float.
BTW
Fishu be quiet.
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You're a small man, 10bears. Crawl back into your hole.
SOB
I agree with my squaddie, Mr. wannabe Native American 10 fears.
You're so small you could sit on a dime and swing your legs.
And play handball on the curb.
Grow a pair or STFU.
Boy the vindictiveness on this board is beyond belief. SOB and Osage you guys just get back from a Jerry Springer taping? Good Jesus Louise!. I’m merely passing on a major story that’s making the rounds in Europe but not a peep from the U.S. press.
And so I was asking, why do you suppose it is that U.S. news editors would sit on a story written by a member of Tony Blair’s government that basically accuses the President of the United States of treason.
I did notice that neither of you addressed the content of the post but rather shot to the vindictive right away. Way to lose a debate.. if there was a debate, I was only asking a question.
10Bears lets stop jerking off here.
Yes/No Do you belive the US govt knowingly allowed sept 11 to happend?
Right now, do you belive that. YES or NO
Gurnhurz, I don’t believe anything. I look at the evidence. Let me give you an O.J. Simpson analogy. O.J. was acquitted of the murder of his wife Nicole and Ron Goldman. However, the vast majority of people believe there was sufficient evidence to convict Simpson of these crimes. Be that as it may, in our system of law the jury had a shadow of doubt and found him not guilty. I don’t know how that’s possible --size 12 Brudomalie shoe prints at the crime scene, a cut on O.J.’s finger on and on.
The people that would like me to believe their innocents are the same folks that according to three quarters of the world population think they lied about the pretext to war with Iraq. With this creditability problem, it’s up to brave journalists and investigators to find the truth of what really happened on 911.
I’ve got to wonder Grunhurz, if a video or audio tape emerged of Chaney and Bush and the other neocons plotting operation Northwoods in a smoky back room. Would you still be singing Bush’s praises?
As for SOB and Osage .. you two boys can come over and polish my shoes.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The guy who wrote that is an idiot and I hope he commits suicide as well. However it would be my honor to torture and kill him.
Spoken like a true American sociopath....thought of running for political office?
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Schedenfreude I have commenntedc on that stement allready... :rolleyes:
So Americans are now sociopaths.. OK Ill remember that..
10Bears thats not a major story anywhere, its not even a news article - its an opinion piece by a leftwinger well known to be unstable in a far left newspaper. In other words it's a joke.
You comments about looking for "evidence" remind me of holocaust deniers. Like they often do, you wont flat out say "Yes I belive in that controversial account" but you take every opportunity to bring in some idiotic bit of commentary that espoused that opinion because reading it and spreading it around make you feel better. And no I'm not saying youre a holocaust denier, just that you act like one with your own bias to beliving such trash as written in the article.
So its allready got a spooky name "Northwoods"... :rolleyes:
Yure a riot 10Bears... Lemme guess GWB let the terrorists train on Air Force One...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Name the countries in Europe today that have had 230 years of continous goverment and organization as a state?
How about
Sweden
Denmark
England
Spain
Portugal
Turkey
Hungary
Russia
France
In my country we have churches that were hundreds of years old when Columbus first set sail for the new world. Our first state formed around 1000 AD.
Sorry, but from a historical perspective the US nation is young indeed.
And as for the sophistication of our respective cultures. Take a patch of empty (well, not really empty, but lets ignore the native americans for now, even though they are the ones with the real culture and tradition over there) land. Fill it with 250 million immigrants from all over the world. Then tell me about the culture of that nation. Does it even have its own culture or is it just a big blurr of different cultures?
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Vindictive? Nope, I was just pointing out the obvious. You're a sad individual. You can try to play victim, but your post was hardly innocent.
SOB
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I like cheese
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Sweden Irellevant Country
Denmark Irrelevant Country
England - pretty good here IIRC WTG Brits./
Spain - Nope
Portugal - Prolly Not
Turkey - No way
Hungary - Nope
Russia - LOL Do we even have to discuss this?
France - No How many revolutions? When did Napoleon rule? Is his form of govt still there? And yes I know of the code.
Just because peple have been living there doesnt mean the goverment has been continous and that they have been the same nation state. Those countries have had so much governmental and cultural upheaval that all of them are very young as of today - much younger as nations than america. Unless of course you think some old cathedrals are worth anything. Yea tell me did the Jews in the fine cultured German gas chambers take comfort in the fcat that Germany had beuitiful cathedrals? Itse irrelevant. If its just a matter of people loiving there than any inhabited part of the world can be said to be so old.
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Grunherz,
Perhaps the goverments arent under issue here, but what they've learned from international and national politics in the course of history etc. (nation wise.. the goverments changes more or less frequently everywhere, but the nations itself doesn't)
and if we go back by a couple centuries, I wouldn't say the swedes were irrelevant. (perhaps not the monarchy anymore, but they got their royals still :D)
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Originally posted by Fishu
Grunherz,
Perhaps the goverments arent under issue here, but what they've learned from international and national politics during the history etc.
and if we go back by a couple centuries, I wouldn't say the swedes were irrelevant. (perhaps not the monarchy anymore, but they got their royals still :D)
But see none of that did them any good since Europe has been responsible for the two most devesatating wars of all time and of course founded both Fascism and Communism. So it seems they have learned nothing. What has europe been doing for 500 years, just one war after another.
And you cant turn that around and say something like: "welll we have had all these terrible wars in europe and now we know that war is not the answer"
Why not? Well lets recall whats the first thing the French did after ww2? They began their recolonizing wars all over the world. The brits too, they even all ganged up on the egyptians in 56.
So really Fishu that whole "oh europe is so sophisticated" stuff is really shallow not to mention blatantly false.
Foe example look at the childish treaty terms imposed by the european powers on Germany at Versailles. All that time American President Wilson was pushing his 14 points and a message of reconciliation but the french ignored him. Youd think that such cultured people as the French with all their would understand that from what "they've learned from international and national politics during the history" - but they didnt... They just had their barbaric terms and in a large part caused another war by getting the equally oh so cultured germans, oh beethooven, oh mozart and bach and schiller and great big cathedrals, to accept Hitler.
The historical record fails to match the claim of cultural or moral or political or whatever higher level opf sophistication.
Its just a comforting excuse for an insecure continent unsure of itself after having to be rescued twice by a country and culture they love to love to love and love to hate.
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Somehow I get a feeling from Grunherz's speech as if no particularly big combats or slaughtering has happened in the north america.
Also sounds like US hasn't done anything at all to get the attention of terrorists...
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Your post is kinda stupid Fishu because its obvious that America has been involved in all manner of wars at home and abroad. Nobody is trying to hide that..
Hoever your moral postulating about european moral/political supremacy or sophistication is an obvious sign of selective amnesia when it comes to eauropean affairs.. You guys happily read off the ages of your old cathedrals but seem to forget the dreadful wars, the catastrohies and disaterous political misjudgements that mark the years in europe just as well as the fine guilded momentnts and operas you take so much pride in...
Sorry Fishu gotta try better counter that that...
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Well.. sounds like you're pretty much doing the talking for me, when you're making up words for me which I've never said.
Also seems like you're calling my posts stupid, whilst not looking at your own posts...
What a reasonable way to push your point :rolleyes:
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Yes fishu go on ignoring europes history of sophisticated mature seasoned behavior...
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Perhaps the goverments arent under issue here, but what they've learned from international and national politics in the course of history etc. (nation wise.. the goverments changes more or less frequently everywhere, but the nations itself doesn't)
This is what you said, the impliaction of some form of superior european moral/political superiority is clear.
BTW that stement of yours is totaly incorrect, its the the people who are always changing - it is the challenge of a government system to keep up with the people, to keep meeting the peoples changing expectations, and the US government has been far more succesful that of most europen nations. Even through enormous socail upheval in the US we have had the same form and style of govermnet, we have been a beacon of prosperity and satbnlity for 230 years and counting. How many overthrown governments has france had in the same 230 year period as the usa? How many has russia had? What about spain. Italy? Yugoslavia? Austria?
Yiur argument is wrong, your position indefensible, quite simply because its a flat out lie. And you keep making a fool of yourself for trying.
But hell why bother with me I'm just a juvenile american cowboy, not at all able to compete on your oh so sophisticated european
level..
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Yours this yours that.. same to you, yours this yours that.
You sure do have the skill to read between the lines... perhaps theres also a need to examine it's validity besides the capability?
In this thread, I've hardly claimed anything concerning the topic itself, yet you somehow make up all these claims you say I've made or think I've made.. and stick to it like I'd have written it in the stone.
You've even made an argument of something I supposed.
Goes to show the bias? you tell me.
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what they've learned from international and national politics in the course of history etc.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Sweden Irellevant Country
Denmark Irrelevant Country
England - pretty good here IIRC WTG Brits./
Spain - Nope
Portugal - Prolly Not
Turkey - No way
Hungary - Nope
Russia - LOL Do we even have to discuss this?
France - No How many revolutions? When did Napoleon rule? Is his form of govt still there? And yes I know of the code.
Just because peple have been living there doesnt mean the goverment has been continous and that they have been the same nation state. Those countries have had so much governmental and cultural upheaval that all of them are very young as of today - much younger as nations than america. Unless of course you think some old cathedrals are worth anything. Yea tell me did the Jews in the fine cultured German gas chambers take comfort in the fcat that Germany had beuitiful cathedrals? Itse irrelevant. If its just a matter of people loiving there than any inhabited part of the world can be said to be so old.
What the hell kind of drugs are you on anyway?
You asked if I could name any country "in Europe today that have had 230 years of continous goverment and organization as a state?" ALL the nations I listed have done so. Just because a government changes does not mean that a new nation is born you IDIOT.
Just what the hell do you mean when you ask for "continuous governement and organization as a state", and then claim that the US has existed like that for 230 years... HELLO...RETARD...Ever heard about the US Civil war?
Damn you are a dumb, brainwashed f***-head.
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This pissing contest, ripe with personal apprisals and uncommonly worthless diatribe can end now. It's not even reflecting the topic anymore.