Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: eskimo2 on September 07, 2003, 10:39:50 AM
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The Fall of the Third Reich - The Final Week.
Scenario:
The Third Reich is in serious trouble. The Luftwaffe is experiencing shortages in: fuel, ammunition, pilot experience, pilot training, communication and the majority of advanced aircraft have been destroyed.
Aircraft available:
Axis:
109G-6
190F-8
110-C
JU-87
JU-88
Allies:
All ETO Allied aircraft modeled in AH
Map: Germany
Bases:
Axis:
The four bases air nearest to Berlin
Allies:
All else
Note:
Radar for Axis has been disabled.
Ammo, ack and fuel downtimes for Axis has been increased to 1,000%
Allied settings are normal.
Doesn't this just sound like fun!
eskimo
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Ummmm...yeah, not bad for a first try Eskimo. :)
You're missing the 262, 163, Fw190A5, A8, F8, Dora, Bf109G-10,109G-2, PLUS the Ta-152H. Also the Stuka was no longer in service by then.
The aircraft around then was the P-51D, P-47's, P-38's B-17, Typhoon, Tempests and Spit XIV. Apache's and Mosquito's conducted low-level raids often too.
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Muahahaha!
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Originally posted by eskimo2
[BThe Third Reich is in serious trouble. [/B]
Well, duh.
Guess this is a response to Sakai's challenge to have a setup of the best against the worst.
Very well, Eskimo, you mangy yellow dog, I accept. Will be good practice on the G6, which I could use.
- oldman
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lol.
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[whine] no 262? we need the 262 in this wouldn't be right.[/whine]
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:eek:
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Good one Eskimo.:D
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Take out the 190F-8, geez, its supposed to be balanced!
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Originally posted by eskimo2
The Fall of the Third Reich - The Final Week.
Scenario:
Axis:
109G-6
190F-8
110-C
JU-87
JU-88
Oh great, the Ju88, another Uber bomber wreeking havoc on defenseless Tempests.
Sakai
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the ju87 needs to substituted with the val... the stuka in this setup is a much later version than what was actually used. the val would perform similar to what was actually present.
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Originally posted by Shane
the ju87 needs to substituted with the val... the stuka in this setup is a much later version than what was actually used. the val would perform similar to what was actually present.
We might ask to sub the 190s with P-40Bs to refelct the materiel quality of the time in downgraded performance?
Sakai
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We might ask to sub the 190s with P-40Bs to refelct the materiel quality of the time in downgraded performance?
Well, you might want to think about the same sub to offset the experiance of the pilots :D
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Originally posted by eskimo2
The Fall of the Third Reich - The Final Week.
Scenario:
The Third Reich is in serious trouble. The Luftwaffe is experiencing shortages in: fuel, ammunition, pilot experience, pilot training, communication and the majority of advanced aircraft have been destroyed.
Aircraft available:
Axis:
109G-6
190F-8
110-C
JU-87
JU-88
Allies:
All ETO Allied aircraft modeled in AH
Map: Germany
Bases:
Doesn't this just sound like fun!
eskimo
What a waste of a fine arena!
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A Whine Has Been Recorded...
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Ummmm...yeah, not bad for a first try Eskimo. :)
Also the Stuka was no longer in service by then.
Ju-87 saw service until 1945, mostly on the Eastern Front.
ack-ack
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Great job Eskimo, now that the P-38 will be in the CT for a week, I've got a good reason to fly in there.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Shane
the ju87 needs to substituted with the val... the stuka in this setup is a much later version than what was actually used. the val would perform similar to what was actually present.
Hehe... be careful what you ask for. :)
(http://home.sprynet.com/~cwbeals/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/stuka-1.jpg)
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This is possibly the most lopsided vulch feast ever set onto the server. Do you really think we LWs are going to enjoy the next set up? Put down the crack pipe! Given the designs of the next set up it would be stupid for anybody who is concerned about their score card to even bother to up axis.
Enjoy your allied vulch fest.
I will be in the MA untill you learn about something called fair play. You know where it is fun for both sides not just for the allied punks.
Wraith, Unteroffizier
Gerichtsschreiber
JG-27 "AFRIKA"
http://www.jagdgeschwader27.com
Feuer frei . . . HORRIDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:confused:
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Originally posted by walkingdead21
This is possibly the most lopsided vulch feast ever set onto the server. I will be in the MA untill you learn about something called fair play. You know where it is fun for both sides not just for the allied punks.
Wraith, Unteroffizier
Gerichtsschreiber
JG-27 "AFRIKA"
[
seems that eskimo snagged quite a few with this stinkbait.
lol @ anyone who thought this was a serious setup.
oh yeah, that val dressed as a stuka.... hey!! that'll work!!! see, we *can* have adequate substituitions!!!
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Surely he was joking.
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Joke? Oh kay (chuckle) I can appreciate a good joke.
But you know,
Its hard to tell sometimes expecially if your a LW dweeb
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Little late now, walkingdead21.....me thinks you swallowed the hook!
Reel 'im in, eskimo! We got us a live one! :p
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Hooked me.
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youve got to be kidding if thats the true setup i hope to god it isnt because honestly if it is u know no ones gonna fly axis itll be 98% allied and 2% axis and everyone knows it
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This might be pretty fun actually :P
I need practise on my G6 anyway.
PS. whats the real setup for today?
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lol After this thread, come on, aren't you going to look in right now just to see what they did?:D
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Ok, now that Eskimo has run out of bait , what is the set up ?
Jospe
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I was HOPING that was a baaaaaaaddddddd joke...But I just logged into the CT and the previous setup is still running. So, what gives?
Inquiring minds wanna know.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by storch
Why not just put us in the bunker under the reichstag and take turns kicking us. Sheesh
You nut, there would be no airplanes involved!
Now, if you could sit on the ground in Ju88s while I strafed you in my P-47, that would work for me.
Sakai
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hooray!
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I must admit that this thread was intended to be a whine, not a troll. It was meant to comment on how the Allies TEND to consistently have an aircraft performance edge. Very often the Allies have both the fastest AND the best turning aircraft. There also is a tendency for Allied numbers to be high. After all, who wants to play for the evil losers?
I really thought the lopsidedness of this “set-up” was so blatant, that no one could mistake it to be anything other than a joke. The fact that so many took it seriously indicates that perhaps the Axis have become all too accustomed to getting the short end of the stick.
I wonder how the response would have been had the Axis been given 262s, 163s, A6m-5s N1Ks, etc, and the Allies stuck with P-47-D25s, P-40Ds and Bostons.
Would the laughter been greater?
Or the whines louder?
(Yes, an official Luftwhine has been recorded.)
eskimo
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I don't know what to say eskimo.
It does seem that the Allies expect to have the edge in any given setup. If they don't, we hear a lot about the removal of the F4U-1.
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I have to admit seeing the setup and thinking that the Axis would be at a huge, monstrous disadvantage but made up my mind to make the best of it. But that's just me, the glass is always half full.
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Why is Tunisia still up?...
:confused:
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Yeah, I am rather tired of this anti axis sentiment. I believe it Has nothing to do with the fact that the axis lost the real thing(I'm not going to get into the numbers factor). I am leaning to believe that it is more of a kinda selfish egotistical type of funky thing. I mean it is like those who own the game also really enjoy flying allied aircraft. Why other than fair play would they want to fight the deadly and illusive K4s or even fwD-9s that are up to specs. For that matter why other than fair play would they happily set up so many CTs that the allied mysteriously have late war aircraft and the axis are left with mid war crap? Lets face it, we LW dweebs pay our monthy fee's to fight as hard as we can in outdated aircraft to give allied flunkies easy kills in their late war machines. All the fuss about how many 109s that are offered but why in the last updates did they not give us the K4 or for that matter the stuka with the good juno and cannon. What they did give us was the early war 109E and the mid war Stuka with the useless guns. I'll tell you why the Axis does not have late war machines, because then it would be even tougher for the allied flunkies to get their kills. After almost two years I am convinced someone in AH desires not to actually have a real axis threat in the air. I think they are trying to avoid having an axis threat that would require skill to defeat instead of simply relying on the machine.
I have heard no good news on there being a high climbing 452mph tighter turning 109K4 in AH2(I actually haven't looked I'm just assuming). Funny how there is a spit14 in AH and no 109K4. If the K4 were offered I would expect it to cost perk points in the MA which I would gladly spend the price of a 262 to ride in that insane prop rocket.
(Sigh) I miss my AW K4 and I miss out climbing and out extending everything like the K4 should. This business of not being able to climb out of a Spit9 or Yak9s guns is ridiculous to say the least.
:(
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Originally posted by Karnak
I don't know what to say eskimo.
It does seem that the Allies expect to have the edge in any given setup. If they don't, we hear a lot about the removal of the F4U-1.
ROFL :D
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Walkingdead,
Erm, I'd check your facts first.
The Bf109G-10 has a top speed of 452mph and has been in AH from before v1.0.
The Bf109G-10 easily out climbs the Spitfire Mk IX.
The Fw190D-9 is not the absolute best Fw190D-9, but it is in the upper range of D-9s.
The Bf109E-4 was added because the Spitfire Mk Ia, Hurricane Mk I and Bf110C-4b were added. In other words as part of the Battle of Britain planeset, not to punish the LW.
The Spitfire Mk XIV has a perk icon that renders it nigh useless given that it is slow on WEP at AH combat altitudes and is mediocre at best after its 5 minutes of WEP is gone. You can have it.
OK, lets check facts:
The LW has:
Bf109G-10: Best possible
Bf109G-6: Worst possible
Bf109G-2: Standard
Bf109F-4: Standard
Bf109E-4: Standard
Bf110C-4b: Good
Bf110G-2: I don't have info
Fw190A-5: Standard
Fw190A-8: I don't have info
Fw190F-8: Missing important loadouts
Fw190D-9: Good, but not best
Ta152H-1: Disputed modeling errors (I think it is too slow)
Me262A-1: Great
Me163B: Good
RAF:
Hurricane Mk I: Standard
Hurricane Mk IIc: Standard
Hurricane Mk IId: Non synced guns cripple it
Mosquito Mk VI: Good bombs and engines, but loses 15mph to useless exhaust dampers
Seafire Mk IIc: Worst possible
Spitfire Mk Ia: Standard
Spitfire Mk Vb: Best possible
Spitfire Mk IX: Worst possible
Spitfire Mk XIVc: Standard
Typhoon Mk Ib: Best possible
Tempest Mk V: Good, but missing full ammo load
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Fw190D-9 is not the absolute best Fw190D-9, but it is in the upper range of D-9s.
Oh, you are soooo wrong about the D-9. That is the best D-9 of all time. The D-9 your thinking of is closer to the D-9 of the D-9 class. To say the D-9 is not the absolute D-9 is a mistake and irrespective of which D-9 you want to bad mouth, the D-9 is clearly superior to the D-9, the D-9, or even the D-9. Get your D-9's straight Karnak, sheeeeesh. :D
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Oh, you are soooo wrong about the D-9. That is the best D-9 of all time. The D-9 your thinking of is closer to the D-9 of the D-9 class. To say the D-9 is not the absolute D-9 is a mistake and irrespective of which D-9 you want to bad mouth, the D-9 is clearly superior to the D-9, the D-9, or even the D-9. Get your D-9's straight Karnak, sheeeeesh. :D
Exactly what I was thinking.
:)
eskimo
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Originally posted by storch
The fact is the allied forces won but not through superior materiel but through vastly greater numbers, better intelligence, ( did I hear anyone say enigma ? ) and the fact that the AXIS needed to be defeated.
Storch, storch....you and I have to talk, some day.
Frankly, after about 1942 I EXPECT that the allies should generally have better planes than the axis. That was real life (yes, yes, I know, there was the Me-109K-72-a-g4 with the rebazak option, but only one of them ever flew). I'm with Eskimo that last week's setup wasn't balanced, but I attribute that almost entirely to the presence of the Spit 9, which has that effect on any setup (except possibly Egypt 1956).
- oldman
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Most air battles in WWII were not fair. Early on, the axis often had an advantage in both plane performance and numbers of aircraft. By the end of the war, the advantages swung to the Allies. The point of this game is not to recreate history at every turn, but it is to PLAY A GAME that somewhat resembles history. For it to be a fun game, it does not need to be fair all the time. However, consistent lopsidedness is hardly ever fun.
What I don’t like seeing, is a set up that gives the Allies (or the Axis for that mater) an advantage of having the fastest planes in the set up, and the best turners. Couple this with a tendency of many players to always choose the side with the better plane set, and you will often have the side with the performance advantage also gaining a great numbers advantage. Very few players can survive in an environment facing an enemy in greater numbers, with faster and better turning planes that are also probably at an altitude advantage.
Every set up does not need to involve combined Allied forces. While certainly countries fought together, seldom did a big mix of fighter types on both sides engage each other. Most battles that I have read about involved only one fighter type per side engaging each other. Personally, I find big type-mix fights less immersive than one type verses one type. If I’m flying a 109, and I see P-47s, P-51s, P-38s, Typhoons, Spitfires and Hurricanes all in one furball, I don’t buy-in to the fight as a believable battle. 20 or 30 of one type gives me the feeling of really being there. A big silly mix is just a glaring reminder of how the CT can resemble the MA.
My recommendation is that future set-ups offer less plane types per base. Single air bases did not launch P-47s, P-51s, P-38s, Typhoons, Spitfires and Hurricanes. I don’t think it helps CT game play either. One or two fighter types per base is plenty, IMO.
Personally, I’d be happy with only one fighter type per side in the entire arena. I think the above recommendation would offer enough type variety to keep the single plane type enthusiasts happy though.
eskimo
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Your high if you think the G10 is modeled to go 452 mph!
top speed of AHs G-10 which is not a K4 is only 420 on a good day with the wind at your back!. That is level flight gentleman not in a slight dive. Not to mention it is not modeled to be even close to the K4s turning ability nor the rediculas climbrate of 4.8-5.1. The G-10 is a rather lame excuse of not having a K4. If there is a spit14 then there should be a K4. And anybody who dissagrees with me wouldn't know a K4 if it bit em in the arse.
Wraith
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Originally posted by walkingdead21
The G-10 is a rather lame excuse of not having a K4. If there is a spit14 then there should be a K4. And anybody who dissagrees with me wouldn't know a K4 if it bit em in the arse.
Wraith
the 109g10 is an even match for the spit14. if you don't think so, then you've not flown either the g10 or the spit14 enough.
this ain't RR.
:D
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Originally posted by Shane
this ain't RR.
:D
You tell `em, Shane! :D
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Eskimo
If I’m flying a 109, and I see P-47s, P-51s, P-38s, Typhoons, Spitfires and Hurricanes all in one furball,
What set up is this? I realize you are trying to make a point but it comes across a bit imbelished. I think your idea of a reduced number of fighter types per side should be considered for some set ups.
Wraith
I'll tell you why the Axis does not have late war machines, because then it would be even tougher for the allied flunkies to get their kills. After almost two years I am convinced someone in AH desires not to actually have a real axis threat in the air.
Allied "flunkies" have no say in the plane set.
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karnac states the seafire to be the worst possible and the spit 5 to be the best possible, arent they pretty much the same plane???
g10-i cant do anything with that plane but compress it.
dora-love it, best B&Z ride for me.
flame on!
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Originally posted by walkingdead21
Your high if you think the G10 is modeled to go 452 mph!
top speed of AHs G-10 which is not a K4 is only 420 on a good day with the wind at your back!. That is level flight gentleman not in a slight dive. Not to mention it is not modeled to be even close to the K4s turning ability....
Wraith
Turning ability?? There is little weight differnce between the G-10 and K-4, about 10 gallons of gas difference (60-65 lbs). They also have the same wing area. So, explain how the K-4 turns so much better than the G-10, because I don't see how it's possible.
My regards,
Widewing
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snocone,
The Seafire and Spitfire lines are not the same. The Seafire Mk IIc we have is the worst of all Seafires used, from a performance standpoint. The Seafire Mk Ic was the Spitfire Mk Vb with a tail hook. The Seafire Mk IIc added more strength for naval ops, but very few of the early Seafire Mk IIc like we have were produced before the uprated Seafire Mk IIc was introduced. All Seafire Mk IIcs that had been produced up to that time were refitted with the more powerful engine of the newer and more common Seafire Mk IIc. The definative wartime Seafire and the most common was the Seafire Mk III.
walkingdead,
You need to actually test the bf109G-10 before you open your yap.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g10speed.gif)
I would like to see a Bf109K-4, but you are full of it if you think our Bf109G-10 maxes at 420mph. You are also full of it if you think the icon on the Spitfire Mk XIV doesn't handicap it severely.
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OK, I tested the Bf109G-10 offline. I climbed to 22,100ft, set autolevel on and turned on the WEP. At about 300mph indicated I turned on the film recorder. I let it accelerate while I made a sandwich. After about 7.5 minuted I turned off the film recorder. The speed indicated at that time looked to be about 445mph.
When I reviewed the film it appeared that it took about a minute to reach 420mph from 300mph. After about three minutes the speed was pegged at 450mph, where it remained for the rest of the film. I don't know what the optimum altitude is for the Bf109G-10's best speed, but 450mph isn't far off of 452mph.
In regards to the Bf109K-4, I doubt that it will match the Spitfire Mk XIV. Frankly I can't see how the Bf109K-4 would even warrant being perked. In comparison with the Bf109G-10 it would handle a little better at high speed and have a slightly different list of armament options, but otherwise it would be largely the same aircraft.
I would like to see it added, but I can't see it's performance earning it the curse of a perk tag.
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Originally posted by Dux
Hehe... be careful what you ask for. :)
(http://home.sprynet.com/~cwbeals/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/stuka-1.jpg)
What did they do hijack it
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Originally posted by Widewing
Turning ability?? There is little weight differnce between the G-10 and K-4, about 10 gallons of gas difference (60-65 lbs). They also have the same wing area
I use this quote for a couple of reasons.
First: While Widewing is unquestionably an expert on plane types and performance....he and you are all missing the point.
Second: The point is: In CT, are we going to go for balance, or for historical accuracy?
Reasonable minds will differ on "Second" (note that no reasonable mind could differ on "First").
I suggest....and it is only a suggestion...that we should do both. Some weeks, do balanced. Some weeks, do historical. My guess is that the historical weeks will draw a combination of the dedicated crowd, and the MA weenies, but who knows? The balanced weeks alread draw regular crowds.
- oldman