Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sabre on September 09, 2003, 12:42:22 PM
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...is over the top. Metal detectors? Of course. Explosive residue sniffers? Sure. Positively identifying airline travelers before allowing them to board? No-brainer. Guns in the cockpit? No problem. But this goes too far for only an arguably marginal (if that) improvement in airline security.
Airlines may screen fliers for risk
Codes based on criminal, travel info planned in '04 that could block thousands from flights.
September 9, 2003: 7:43 AM EDT
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Airline passengers could soon be assigned a color code to assess their security risk that could keep tens of thousands of passengers daily from boarding a flight, according to a published report.
The Washington Post reported Tuesday that the new system from the Transportation Security Administration, is set to debut next summer in a pilot program. The system will consider passengers' personal information, criminal records and intelligence information, as well as their city of departure, destination, traveling companions and date of ticket purchase.
The paper said that most passengers will be assigned a green code and not be subject to additional scrutiny. But the paper, quoting people familiar with the program, said 8 percent of passengers will be coded "yellow" and will undergo additional screening at the checkpoint, while 1 to 2 percent will be coded red and be prevented from boarding. That could equal about 30,000 passengers a day who would not be allowed to board based on the average daily passenger volume.
The program has critics. The paper reported that Delta Air Lines (DAL: Research, Estimates), the nation's No. 3 carrier, backed out of a testing program with the agency earlier this year.
"This system is going to be replete with errors," the paper quotes Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program as saying. "You could be falsely arrested. You could be delayed. You could lose your ability to travel."
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Quickly going from the land of the free, to the land of "you can't leave your house without papers, comrade".
-SW
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those coded red should get their Pilot's License :)
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Pilot program. I wouldn't worry about it. The Facial Recognition camera's failed miserably, this will too. Naturally, someone will blame this on Bush.
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Metal detectors? Sure
Explosive residue sniffers? Yup. They work too. My rocket motor casings sent the alarms off, and it was no big deal explaining it. I like good security that works.
Positively identifying airline travelers before allowing them to board? No-brainer. Agreed.
Guns in the cockpit? No problem here either. They can't possibly shoot someone who can't possibly get in. The new door mods are terrific. I eat crow on that one, I never thought the government would pay for it, and they are indeed tough. Might be a bit of a saftey hazard in a crash because they are... well, that tough. Great mod though.
Records to allow boarding? Yikes. That is scary. If I sold a pound of pot and got busted I couldn't board, but how many of the terrorists that did 9/11 could? I really don't know, but I'm guessing alot of them would have walked on.
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Do they have to wear their red sticker visibliy in public?
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Wow, I agree with Creamo. Damn, whats up wit everyone agreeing today? Hortlund/banana/Sandman...now me and creamo..
I feel...ill
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It's a good sign. AH2 Beta must be just days away.
Soon MT will goof on Hillary's cankles, and Sandman will order the NFL package from DirectTv and pressure wash his Clinton/Gore bumper sticker off his Minivan.
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Yes..bizarre, I agree with old grumpy too Rip.
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Yes..bizarre, I agree with old grumpy too Rip.
It's t'other sign of th' impendin' apocalypse ah tell ya!
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OTOH, the current system does seem rather silly.
I've had numerous background security investigations before obtaining a security clearance. I am trusted with highly classified information and I've probably been through an equal if not greater amount of scrutiny than any of the TSA employees.
Still... I can't be trusted to board a plane without even more searches.
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Originally posted by Creamo
It's a good sign. AH2 Beta must be just days away.
Soon MT will goof on Hillary's cankles, and Sandman will order the NFL package from DirectTv and pressure wash his Clinton/Gore bumper sticker off his Minivan.
I don't own a minivan (or any Clinton/Gore stickers). :p
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Commercial aircraft are proven weapons systems capable of massive destruction against people and property.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Commercial aircraft are proven weapons systems capable of massive destruction against people and property.
Yeah, when in the hands of those who don't really have any background or criminal record.
-SW
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ouch
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just have to show up 6 hours b4 your flight - what's the problem?
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Originally posted by Eagler
just have to show up 6 hours b4 your flight - what's the problem?
This isn't Israel, and I certainly hope it never gets to the point that we have to do what their national airlines (El Al ?) has to do.
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... the land of the free ...
Does anyone of u go into a library to borrow books or magazines?
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2 hours.
I have done it on 1 hour but I thought that wasn't fair to the gate agents that accommodated me. They didn't seem put out, but I really hate people that fly twice a decade and think it's a Disney ride with a catered rib cook-off menu. I try to be way ontime and out of the way from the gate before it loads, knowing 2 hours is nothing if I'd have to drive 2 days as an option.
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"You could be falsely arrested. You could be delayed. You could lose your ability to travel."
You have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong!
(cue up the Illinois Symphony Orchestra performing the "Battle Hymn of the Republic")
These laws and procedures are patriotic, absolutely necessary to fight terrorism and you are just damned hysterically anti-Bush if you do not agree with that.
And they will help stomp out this rampant spread of model rocketeering stuff too.
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oh my....
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Originally posted by Westy
"You could be falsely arrested. You could be delayed. You could lose your ability to travel."
You have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong!
(cue up the Illinois Symphony Orchestra performing the "Battle Hymn of the Republic")
These laws and procedures are patriotic, absolutely necessary to fight terrorism and you are just damned hysterically anti-Bush if you do not agree with that.
And they will help stomp out this rampant spread of model rocketeering stuff too.
I think you need to stay off the coffeee there Westy..
I think this is carying things a bit too far..
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Slightly off topic, but my car's engine blew and is now a thousand miles away from me. Before I left my car I stripped my stereo and a few speakers because I never expected to see that car again. Now, the car is being fixed and I will need to take a plane up to Michigan to go get it.
Do you think I could I bring my stereo head unit and a few small (5") speakers as carry-on in a bag, or would I just have no hopes of passing security with an electronic box not normally carried by passengers (car stereo) ? I need to get these items back into my car when I go to pick it up. I just don't want to get hassled much at the airport. These items will fit into a carry-on backpack no problem and will fit into the over head compartment easily.
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Originally posted by MarkVZ
Slightly off topic, but my car's engine blew and is now a thousand miles away from me. Before I left my car I stripped my stereo and a few speakers because I never expected to see that car again. Now, the car is being fixed and I will need to take a plane up to Michigan to go get it.
Do you think I could I bring my stereo head unit and a few small (5") speakers as carry-on in a bag, or would I just have no hopes of passing security with an electronic box not normally carried by passengers (car stereo) ? I need to get these items back into my car when I go to pick it up. I just don't want to get hassled much at the airport. These items will fit into a carry-on backpack no problem and will fit into the over head compartment easily.
Check 'em through.
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Originally posted by nuchpatrick
I think you need to stay off the coffeee there Westy..
I think this is carying things a bit too far..
Need to work on your joke nerve. :)
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"I think this is carying things a bit too far.."
I really hate the idea of adding a disclaimer in my boards signiature that warns readers to the potential inclusion of sarcasm in my posts.
I did sound like a good party "Brownshirt" though didn't I? ;)
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you are all ready rated by equifax and other credit reporting agencies. Background checks are run on you for renting apartments, buying a house or car, going to work for the goverment etc etc. They run background checks for you to coach little league, work in a day care center, drive a school bus.
This system is not much different.
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Originally posted by Westy
I did sound like a good party "Brownshirt" though didn't I? ;)
Yes, comrade.
h
(just practicing)
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Maybe it's gotten worse, but I travelled to the 2001 AH con a month after 9/11. I got there two hours early and ended up waiting at the gate for an hour. Wasn't bad at all, but I didn't and rarely do bring anything more than a carry-on.
SOB
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you see it at the border check points now. two rough looking dudes with lenghty criminal records tie up the ine while a clean cut couple with no record get waved thru with a load of dope (or what ever in this case).
You should never be judged on what you have done in the past, only what you are capable of doing now.
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Originally posted by Duedel
... the land of the free ...
Does anyone of u go into a library to borrow books or magazines?
I do.
I've been reading Sci Fi with a Conservative bent, so I'm probably safe.
Still, this idea is moronic regardless of who the waste of skin that thought it up is.
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???you pretty much already cant cross the border if you have a criminal record so why bother???
and what good are id checks if you have a very nice fake biirthcertificate Social insurance number provided by the goverment of your country of origin
anyway whats stopping a terrorist from using the subway system in some way next time...or driving his car into the lobby packed with explosives...
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Pilot program. I wouldn't worry about it. The Facial Recognition camera's failed miserably, this will too. Naturally, someone will blame this on Bush.
.....or Clinton.
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Ya gotta draw the line somewhere. If ya let red sticker people through, what next? Blue stickers? Purple stickers? Where will it end?
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This will be beaten down by the ACLU...
ohh and Rip, I am horrifed too.... I agree with Creamo as well... yikes, AH2 must definitely be coming.
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Some people surely are forgetting what the 'freedom' meant when they're thinking up something which discriminates people this much...
Getting close to those hated facistic and communistic systems :eek:
...but this will probably be forgotten as a useless idea.
Although they seem to be already doing the profiling behind the scene, when they for example require foreign airliners to hand over passenger information etc.
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Yes, comrade. h (just practicing)
Brother H!
It is doubleplus good to see you. Watch that crimethink!
(practicing too ;) )
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Originally posted by Westy
Yes, comrade. h (just practicing)
Brother H!
It is doubleplus good to see you. Watch that crimethink!
(practicing too ;) )
Nice to see ya back up in the virtual air!
h
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Good gawd, the ACLU will be all over this and call it profiling.
Because of my size and appearance (G'ma was Cherokee) I'm already treated like a damn convict wearing stripes when I fly, this will surely improve things.
Sometimes I think all the new security is exactly what the terrorists wanted.
Stay on your toes, can't let them go too far.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
This isn't Israel, and I certainly hope it never gets to the point that we have to do what their national airlines (El Al ?) has to do.
You say this isn't Israel, but there are more Jews living in NY than in Israel.
El Al security checks are probably the best in the world. Many years ago (about 15-20) a middle eastern terrorist who had got an Irish girl pregnant set up that same girl as an unwitting bomb courier on an El Al flight. The girl passed through airport security, but the heavily disguised bomb was detected in El Al's own security checks, and disaster was averted. Pity the poor girl though. The a-hole who set her up had promised marriage and other great things, and then did this.
AFAIK it was this particular incident that led to security asking the routine question about whether you are carrying anything that someone else has given you.
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Originally posted by beet1e
El Al security checks are probably the best in the world.
Yeah... the efficiency is amazing... I imagine that U.S. airport security would be every bit as good if we had just five flights per day.
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I have to wonder about this "type" of security though. How many cons if onboard an airplane that was hijacked like that would do everything in their power to stop the hijacker?
How many cons are interested in hijacking an aircraft? There's a far cry between someone who murdered someone and did his/her time and someone intent upon killing hundreds if not thousands of people with a flying gastank.
Macchi.
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you gotta love bureaucrats. The Delta airlines pilot program would have been disastrous for them. Can you imagine what would happen to an airline that suddenly started giving additional harassment to 8 percent of its passengers and refused boarding to 1-2 percent? Word-of-mouth is also a force multiplier. This plan strikes me as a dead letter. Yeah, the ACLU is against it; so are most US citizens. But the airline bean-counters are going to make this system unworkable. 1-2% of passengers? Do you have any idea what their profit margin is? Now you're going to take away another 1% and add the expenses of dealing with these guys.
so there's something in this plan for everyone to dislike:
it violates our basic liberties, it's extremely expenses, and it's ineffective. DOA I say.