Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Holder3 on September 11, 2003, 08:29:49 PM
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Hi all,
My next SquadOp for Friday night (early October) will be a little different. I call it Bomber Wars. It will feature ... bombers. No surprise there. The idea is to represent bomber missions from the Germans at El Alamein, the British with nighttime Lancaster raids into Germany and American daylight raids into Germany.
The first frame is in the North African desert. The LW is ordered to reduce the British forward bases and bomb Cairo into submission. Armed with an armada of Ju-88s and Bf-109Fs and MC-202s they will be arrayed against an equally motley crew of British Hurricane IIs, some Spitfire Vs and South African P-40Es.
Frame II will feature at least one, maybe two, bomber streams of Lancasters protected by night-fighter Mosquitos arrayed against the pride of the German nachtjagers: FW-190A5s, Bf-110s, Bf-109Gs.
Frame III will pit American B-17s and P-51Ds (maybe P-47-D30s) against the might of the late-war LW: Fw-190Ds, some Me-262s, Bf-109G10s, and maybe a few Me-163s.
ANY COMMENTS?:)
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Sounds like a lot of fun to me. I love the Bomber Raid scenarios, especially now that we have the 3 plane formations - it actually begins to look almost historical when you have a gaggle of 30 big ugly fellas flying together in formation. I'll look forward to honing my calibration skills...
Just wondering though, how will the night scenario work? Short Icon range? Instant radar updates? Also, will the German Nacht Jagers be heavy on the 110s? Will the 190s and 109s be "radar blind" as the actual wilde sau aircraft were? Otherwise there are going to be a lot of dead Mossies about.
- SEAGOON
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Well, I don't think we can have one group of aircraft radar blind, and the others with radar. It doesn't work that way in AH. I was going to use short icons and quickly updated dot radar. The 110s will represent a lot of the German night fighters, with some 190s and 109s. I haven't worked out the proportions yet.
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Sounds like fun Holder.. Hope to see D-30's in that final frame for us Jug people :)
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Looking forward to it and especially the use of the of the P51's.
68Falcon
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This sounds like a great idea. The only potential fly in the ointment I see is that someone's going to have to fly the buffs. When the orders come out, the squads assigned to bomber duty need to actually show up.
-Sik
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Sounds fun, but the defensive armament of the lancasters and Ju88's is not equivalent to an attacking fighter. If both sides are equal in number, the side with the bombers is going to have a hard time. The Ju88's stand a decent chance if the # of Spit V's are limited, but even if there equal numbers of Spits and Hurricanes and P40's, it would be a challenge for the bombers to penetrate. Only the last scenario with B-17's will be a fair fight with equal numbers on both sides. What I am trying to say is that I feel that the bomber sides should have a slight #'s advantage in the first two frames but I don't know how to accomplish this.
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The only potential fly in the ointment I see is that someone's going to have to fly the buffs. When the orders come out, the squads assigned to bomber duty need to actually show up.
If they don't show up they get dropped from Squad Operations.
All three frames at night Holder??
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Originally posted by daddog
If they don't show up they get dropped from Squad Operations.
I would reiterate that before the event.
-Sik
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Yes Squad Ops are not just about showing up to fly P51s and the rest of the time skipping. Thats why we have rules about that. Somebody has to fly the bombers sometimes. Otherwise we may as well just go to the CT and forget about it.
Agree on the ratios, the bombers will need a #s advantage.
Btw if you have never done a "good" night event, you are missing out.
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Well, this needs to be addressed now before signing up..I know there are squads in S. Ops. that like flying Buff's. There are other squads the fly solely fighters.
Myself, personally do not fly bombers for the idotic calibration crap..I have spent months..with help trying to use the system and not able to get it to work. I like flying the B-17, but the fun has been taken out of it for me.
I will say this if the 56th has to fly bombers we will support the Squad Ops. And not show up.
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Originally posted by Jim
Looking forward to it and especially the use of the of the P51's.
68Falcon
That did not mean we would only fly P51's as a matter of fact we do a lot of bombing B17's B26's A20 and some I do not even know the names of. I meant could you see a formation of B17's and a formation of P51 fighter support it would be awesome. They may not be used in that manner but it would be nice.
The 68th Lightning Lancers will fly and fight what ever is necessary and will show up !
68Falcon
68th Lightning Lancers
Executive Officer
Special Events
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No offense 68Falcon, I knew what you meant. :)
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Originally posted by Strange
I will say this if the 56th has to fly bombers we will support the Squad Ops. And not show up.
And that supports the SquadOps how?
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Originally posted by Jim
The 68th Lightning Lancers will fly and fight what ever is necessary and will show up !
That's exactly right attitude! :)
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Let me make somethings perfectly clear here.
[list=1]
- Holder has posted his ideas for "bomber wars" here on the BBS to get feedback from all the squads and to guage if the majority of squads are interested in trying it. We are also going to email all the squads to get their input and see if everyone is up for this.
We are not going to ram anything down the squads throats if the majority say no way.
- In Holder3 description you will see that for all 3 frames there is a mix of escorts and bombers:
Frame 1
Ju88s, 109F4s, MC-202s
Hurricane IIs, Spitfire Vs, P-40Es.
Frame 2 (Night Battle)
Lancasters, Mosquitos
FW-190A5s, Bf-110s, Bf-109Gs
Frame 3
B-17s, P-51Ds (maybe P-47-D30s)
Fw190Ds, some Me-262s, Bf109G10s, and maybe a few Me-163s
As you will see its not an all bomber force for either side in any of the frames. As for who gets assigned bombers that is up to each sides frame CiC. CMs do not choose who flies what or what missionis assigned. The frame CiC (selected Squad C.O.) does.
- Finally if any squad EVER pulls a no show because of the plane they are assigned don't bother showing up again. You will be inactivated from Squad Ops rosters and will not be able to participate as squad in any future squad op events.
I don't care for bombers either but I have flown my fair share in Squad Ops knowing that I could not hit the side of a barn. However, by signing up for Squad Ops it was understood (at least I thought it was) that sometimes you will get the primo rides and sometimes you won't.
If you were assigned bombers for all 3 frames you have a case. But to make a statement that if you are assigned bombers at all that you won't show is completely unacceptable.
If this behavior happens over flying bombers or because a squad is not assigned say, P51s, but instead gets P40s or A6M2s instead of N1K2s it will not be tolerated.
I hope I make myself crystal clear on this issue.
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Originally posted by Squire
No offense 68Falcon, I knew what you meant. :)
Warloc,
Absolutely none taken
68Falcon
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I will say this if the 56th has to fly bombers we will support the Squad Ops. And not show up.
I think it was a typo. At least I hope so.
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Hopefully it is a typo.
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I would like to think so.
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Originally posted by Strange
I will say this if the 56th has to fly bombers we will support the Squad Ops. And not show up.
Err..ummmmm I'm terribly sorry!!!! I'm not sure where I had my head, but that did not come out how I ment.... :D :eek:
The 56th will support the Squad OPS and fly what needs to be flown!!!
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We have a team player! :)
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I posted that at the end of the day.. and didn't look till this morning I was like :eek: oh my god !!!
But I can live up to my name! :rofl
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LOL! :lol Great to hear, Strange! :)
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Sounds like fun.
Not crazy about the night mission though. During the recent Okinawa scenarios I couldn't see the fields at all either to bomb or land unless I adjusted my gamma, which kinda defeats the purpose of night. Would work much better if we had moon light.
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Holder. If you answered this I am sorry. I can't find it.
Are all three frames at night? I ask because I know it will change the numbers for my squad. I have several that log when night time rolls around. This is not a whine, I just need to know. :)
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I believe only one mission is at night.
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Perhaps switching sides after each week will create some competition between the sides...i.e. week #1 you fly allies, week #2 side switch to axis, week #3 back to allies in a second type of op, week #4 switch to axis, etc. That would maybe spread it out a bit as well as get a little competition going.
Ed561
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You know we are always up for your set ups Warloc... Sounds fun.
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Why not just let the Squads pick the side they prefer before each op and then do some evening out on the old "first come, first served" basis.
Personally, I'd much prefer that to mandatory side switching, and I'm mightily tired of flying Axis hardware. :( Besides staying one side allows some tiny semblance of espirit de corps to emerge, which is impossible if you are constantly being moved back and forth.
- SEAGOON
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Its Holders design Stream, Im just a voice in the marsh :)
I would like to see a "bomber tracker" system where all squads have to do some of the "unglamorous work" in turn. To make sure we all do our fair share. Just a thought. It has been used in other sims events, wether it serves us here? maybe.
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Well you know we will fly what ever needs to be flown... but I do like the sound of the B17 raid... think my guys will enjoy that...
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Sorry for not replying earlier, I just got back to town.
Only the Lancaster raid is at night. The B-17s weren't night rated, and no one flew at night in North Africa.
So far it sounds like a good mix of support for the concept.
Thanks.