Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -lynx- on November 29, 1999, 06:44:00 AM
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OK, we have 2 colour icons at the moment: green friendlies and red for all enemies. There's been lots of arguments pro/con icons the fact is - we need them and they stay for 2 main reasons:
a. we need a distance readout;
b. we need to identify plane type in a non-country specific planeset.
Arguably, they are a pain - difficult to hide in terrain, difficult to set-up a sneaky attack blah-blah-blah...
But: what if the colour of an enemy icon was black? Once you've spotted an enemy plane it gives you all the info you need but it's a little bit less obvious than a red banner we all carrying at the moment. It gives one a chance to disengage by smart flying and clear off unmolested by hordes of 190s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
At the same time one of those 190s has a better chance to set up a nice approach to unsuspecting target without being spotted as easily as it's done now.
500 feet AGL (I hope) radar/icon limit helps but even if you flying higher than 500' you shouldn't be spotted with ease by someone few thousand feet above you just because you happen to have that huge neon sign announcing your presence to the world.
Can we, at least, try? Pyro? HT?
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
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Make it white, says I. It'd make cloud bounces much easier... > (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Good idea. The black icons would offset the effects of radar a little.
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How about some sort of dull grey color...that should be a little harder to pick out then the "red alert" red.
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I like the red OK (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mino
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Sure would be nice to try some different colors, do any box sims give you an option?
Hell, lets try some'em... maybe just reverse the "red" "green" every once in awhile (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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A few posts ago a newbie named 'snafu' brought this idea up: make all icons white. His reasoning was twofold, 1)with a single colored icon we'd all have to actually look to see if it was friend or foe, rather than glimpse for red or green, and 2)it would aid anyone in the clouds. I thought this was a fabulous idea, and certainly a step in the right direction.
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129 IAP VVS RKKA
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Lets try it. people will start using there radios better i bet. more use of other channels.
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>A few posts ago a newbie named 'snafu' brought this idea up: make all icons white. His reasoning was twofold, 1)with a single colored icon we'd all have to actually look to see if it was friend or foe, rather than glimpse for red or green, and 2)it would aid anyone in the clouds. I thought this was a fabulous idea, and certainly a step in the right direction.
Making all icons one color does sound like a good idea worth trying.
Different idea: Let users adjust icon colors enemy and friendly to whatever they like.
WB does this partially already.
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Scout-
The problem with that is it goes against the very idea this thread was propagating, that is to reduce the visibility of enemies and make ID harder. This is intended to bring the issues of gameplay vs. real life into a more proper perspective (i.e. no icons followed real pilots around, but real pilots had better peripheral vision). (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by -kier- (edited 11-30-1999).]
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"This is intended to bring the issues of gameplay vs. real life into a more proper perspective (i.e. no icons followed real pilots around, but real pilots had better peripheral vision)"
In real life a pilot did not fly into a furball of 109's, Spitfires, N1k1's and P51's.
Unless aircraft are seperated by country there needs to be icons because it is impossible to tell a friendly 190 or C.205 from an enemy flown FW-190 ir C.205 on a computer screen or in the arena as they ALL look the same no matter which country they are flying for.
I'd vote for a medium to light gray icon for ALL. and not visible in clouds altogether.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 11-30-1999).]
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Westy-
Of course you're right about similar aircraft, but the issue of ID is still valid. If we could see objects in their true RL proportions, AND flew in an historical setting, icons might not be needed. As it is now, we are left with the issue of whether we need neon icons.
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Why this incredible allegiance to icons?
There ARE other ways to ID friend/foe, even when using all plane types for all countries.
As an example, you can "paint" the wingtips, vert stab, elevators and nose spinners either green for friendly or red for foe. It doesn't have to be red/green either. We can use other colors.
Make the color shift at 1500 yards which is outside of normal gun range even for buff gunners.
Or, instead of letter/number icons, just put four small appropriately colored dots in a diamond formation around the plane shape (top, bottom, left & right wingtips. No range or type info, just dots.
There are ways to do this better.
It seems we always just accept the current system as the best possible one without any real justification. Experimentation has essentially been non-existent. How do we know this is the best method?
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My point:
No icons at all for nmy planes: NOTHING.
Just use a kind of "Ground Controler" radio call for aprox bearing of nearest nmy, and also aprox (unaccurate) distance.
not altitude, not number of bogeys if 2 or 3 miles apart.
The "call" should be only aviable once in an amount of time, say 1 minute?.
Icons for friendlies should be retained.
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Toad,
The icon idea keeps going the rounds because I think there are many out there who would flip if icons were gone completely. I, however, am not one of them.
Now to comment on your ideas for icon substitutes. I think the one about painting wingtips or rudder specific colors within a certain range is absolutely fantastic! Best idea I've heard yet, actually.
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129 IAP VVS RKKA
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"I think the one about painting wingtips or
rudder specific colors within a certain
range is absolutely fantastic! Best idea
I've heard yet, actually..."
I'd go for this one too if I was fortunate
enough to have a 21" .25dpi monitor.
I do not have 20/20 vision and I have the best piece of junk 19" monitor I could afford when I bought this pc.
I'm all for ditching the icons when computer technology can provide MUCH better resolution so that the wing tip/tail coloured visual clues can be seen from a reasonable distance
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a better solution such as along the lines of Altairs idea. I reread Altairs proposal and that one has grown on me quite a bit.
Lose your radio and you lose that capability too?
-Westy
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I believe there would be a real problem being able to tell if a con is 6k or 2k out.
I am not saying that in real life you could tell if the plane was a 109 or a Spit at 1 mile. I am saying that you could tell if it was 1 mile away or 1/2 mile away or 2 miles away.
Computer graphics are just not able to represent distances well yet. Until they can, I feel Icons are an amiable compromise.
I would like to see AH Icons only at ranges more than 1k and less than 5k. A reduction in Icon text size would also be nice.
Mino
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I'd like to know who in real life can tell a 109 from a 190 or a 51 at 8,000 yds.... (the silver flash of a 51 not withstanding)
I'd like to see the icons disappear untill planes are around 3-4 k out, and then only the distance as an Icon. Not the plane type until around 1,000 yds. And then only if ya have it toggled on. Oh yeah and maybe only in
8 typeface rather than the current 14 bold. (or so it seems when I'm in a 47...) and definately get rid of the bright red. Perhaps a dull grey, (though would wash out against canyon walls, be quite intrusive against ground colors)
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GreyBeard
Flight Commander, Aces High
Skeleton Crew
[This message has been edited by SC-GreyBeard (edited 12-02-1999).]
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Prepares to be soundly bashed....
How about national markings that are meaningfull.
Silver planes for One.
Cool grey camo for another.
Girly sea grey and green for the last.
Three times the art work i suppose but most realistic from SA perspecitve. The patterns chosen where for specific stratigic and tactical situation of country. This is not in place so (other then the asthetics that I value as much as anybody) why not have National (Knight etc.) paint themes....
On another note
you could certainly tell the diff between a P51D and a 109 at 1.5 or 2k. I know that there where mistakes made but think of how often out of all the times in combat the two were mistaken.
My opinion.
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Having camo colored Icons is piontless.
Mino