Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Curval on September 17, 2003, 12:08:44 PM
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Tough call (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030917/us_nm/weather_isabel_scene_dc_1)
Tough call because it isn't an easy thing to evacuate one's home, particularly with only a Cat 2 hurricane.
BUT...they still have wooden homes.
THAT is where I consider them to be stupid.
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stupid.
brave is doing what needs to be done in spite of fear. not being afraid of a real threat or risking your life for no good reason is just stupid.
"A prayer for us all. It's God's will," said Lehman, 70
this quote reminds me of a story I told my kids (sorry for the slight hi-jack but it is on topic)
so this older woman is watching the TV one morning and there’s a storm warning. predictions of flooding, all residents from her area a requested to evacuate. she says a few prayers, decides God will protect her and stays home.
a while later her power goes out and it begins to rain hard. listening to her battery powered radio she hears that rains are expected to last several hours and flooding is immanent, and that shelters and evacuation points are being set up on higher ground, all residents are urged to leave immediately. again she has faith that God will answer her prayers and save her. she stays home.
around noon a neighbor shows up to urge her to leave. she refuses.
later that afternoon some volunteers show up in a truck knocking on doors trying to round up people who haven't heard of the danger or where unable to evacuate themselves. she tells them she's fully aware of the storm and the flooding but is confident that God will save her.
soon the waters are rising, her porch is under water and it's starting to leak under the front door. a boat with rescue workers in it pulls up to the house to save her. but again she turns them away.
now it's almost dark, the water is about 6' deep in her first floor, she's climbed out a second floor window and is sitting on the roof. a helicopter comes, dropping a line with a rescuer on it. she waves him off. again explaining about her faith and that she is confident God will save her.
shortly after another wall of water comes along and completely destroys the house. forcing her down in the ruble where she promptly drowns.
so as she makes it to heaven and and stands before God, she asks him. "I had complete unwavering faith in you, why didn't you save me?"
"Look I heard your prayers. first I contacted you by TV and radio, then I sent you a messenger, a truck, a boat, and a helicopter. exactly what do you want from me?"
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lol...good story.
I don't know that I consider them to be stupid although I do not know what the risks are in the North Carolina area. Is it storm surge and flooding that is the real risks involved, or is it wind and collapsing houses?
I think the stupidity is in constantly rebuilding wooden houses in a potential hurricane area.
We have one of these "stilt" house in the Turks and Caicos Islands. When we were building it the contractors were doubling up on the hurricane ties holding the structure to the platform on which the house is built. They were a Canadian crew.
I asked the head guy what the point of the ties were. He said the house would withstand a hurricane of Category 4 or under. My father and I both laughed....and then bought lots of hurricane insurance on the place.
If you allow hurricane strength wind to get underneath a home...it is going to be gone. It is that simple.
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I have spent quite a bit of time on the Outer Banks-they are stupid, trust me.
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Curval: I think the stupidity is in constantly rebuilding wooden houses in a potential hurricane area.
Only if it was done at their expence.
The real stupidity is taxpayers constantly footing the unconstitutional bills to rebuild the lives of people who voluntarily chose to live in dangerous areas.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Curval: I think the stupidity is in constantly rebuilding wooden houses in a potential hurricane area.
Only if it was done at their expence.
The real stupidity is taxpayers constantly footing the unconstitutional bills to rebuild the lives of people who voluntarily chose to live in dangerous areas.
If they wouldn't be helped, the national economy would suffer.. I'm afraid.
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Originally posted by miko2d
Curval: I think the stupidity is in constantly rebuilding wooden houses in a potential hurricane area.
Only if it was done at their expence.
The real stupidity is taxpayers constantly footing the unconstitutional bills to rebuild the lives of people who voluntarily chose to live in dangerous areas.
miko
Do you really consider the Carolinas to be a dangerous place to live? Why? Because a hurricane hits every 10 or twenty years?
Bermuda was hit badly a couple of weeks ago for the first time since 1987, before that was 1934, before that 1899, etc etc etc.
Is my home a dangerous place to live?
I don't disagree that the rebuilding should be borne by those states affected though, but I just don't see why the inhabitants keep building the wooden homes again and again.
An old expression reads, "Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me."
Our houses are actualy built of materials that lessen the damage impact on the whole country. We learned...why can't these guys?
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Fishu: If they wouldn't be helped, the national economy would suffer.. I'm afraid.
Even if it were true in some partucilar case - when people are hit with an unexpected disaster, they should be helped. Preferably through methods not contrary to the Constitution. Helped to relocate and rebuild their lives elsewhere. If they decide to stay in the area where the danger is now known and expected - screw them. Let them buy private insurance.
Floridians knowingly decided to settle in hurricane-prone areas. Long-Islaneders in flood-prone one, mid-staters in tornado country, aspiring slaveowners in then-mexican Texas where their right to own slaves was not recognised., israeli settlers want to live in the West Bank, etc.
Every time US government has to step in and help people keep on living there rather then face responcibility for their choices at their own expence.
miko
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When they force all the Californians to move, they can't stay in AZ. I want that settled right now.
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we have our own versions of morons here. we get these people who move up from california, they buy some property in the west hills, cut down the trees, and build a house.
first off, there's a reason why people built around and not on those areas for the last 150 years. second it rains a lot here and that tree you just cut down does 2 things, one the roots hold the dirt in place and second it drinks a lot of water.
so with the first really good strong rain, we get these mud surfers riding their new house to the bottom of the hill. another year goes by and some other fool comes up here, buys the property, and builds another.
if I could just figure out how to only sell the top 4 feet of soil it would be great. build a new house every 5 or six years, sell it, a few years go by and we get a new storm, start over.
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Curval: Do you really consider the Carolinas to be a dangerous place to live? Why? Because a hurricane hits every 10 or twenty years?
Bermuda was hit badly a couple of weeks ago for the first time since 1987, before that was 1934, before that 1899, etc etc etc.
Is my home a dangerous place to live?
I am a libertarian.
I do not care if people choose to live in dangerous places in flimsy dwellings, play dangerous sports or engage in unhealthy lifestyle choices.
As long as they or their private insurance pay for the consequences of their decisions, they have my blessing.
why the inhabitants keep building the wooden homes again and again.
Because doing so would be expensive and doing what they do there (like growing corn in tornado area) would suddenly be less profitable and not competitive.
Of course when the state provides huge rebuilding subcidies, the economic calculation changes.
Thos people are not stupid. They may not have money to build sturdier houses and they have no incentive to move while their posessions are "insured" by the taxpayer.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Thos people are not stupid. They may not have money to build sturdier houses and they have no incentive to move while their posessions are "insured" by the taxpayer.
miko
The incentive should be THE LAW.
You are simply not allowed to build a wooden home here..any house you build must be up to code and really be able to withstand a category 4 hurricane.
Yes it would be more expensive to build a home...tough.
Insurance rates would go down, as would all (or at least most of) the subsides you hate.
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who lives in a safe area? we have earthquakes here, some people have floods, tidal waves, hurricanes, muggers, deadly winters, tornadoes, heat waves that kill, whatever. every place has its risks.
pick your poison
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Miko,
I don't know much about bigger natural disasters, since Finland has quite a stable nature..
But I suppose the goverment doesn't just for free will support them, so must be something of more worth behind the reasons.
It could be interesting to take a look at the local economies and if these areas has some unique production etc.
Giving away the money to support people living there, isn't necessarily a wasted money, but could be something like an investment on a long run.
I don't know.. should take a look at the local economics.
Although I have no idea where from to look those... besides the flu bugging me at the moment.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
this quote reminds me of a story I told my kids
When I was at the Defense language Institute, one of my Russian teachers tried to tell us that joke during our first week of class. She tried to tell the joke in Russian Here I'm getting a grip on such phrases as "tam tank" and "Ya matros" and she's over here playing Conan O'Brian.
I still twitch whenever I see taht joke.
-Sik
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Curval: The incentive should be THE LAW.
You are simply not allowed to build a wooden home here..
Who the heck are you to tell people where they can or cannot live? Or mandate that their houses must be bulldosed all of a sudden because of your newfangled standard?
While you are at it, why not mandate all population in the US must live in gender-segregated barracks with total lockdown after 9PM. That would cut down on most social ills, accidents, etc.
Insurance rates would go down, as would all (or at least most of) the subsides you hate.
B.S. The situation you describe is the result of teh government intervention and mor eintervention will not help but only produce more negative side-effects.
Insurance rates only go up for the rest of us when people buld unsafe houses or drive unsafely because there are legal limitation on insurers.
They are not allowed to segregate customers into similar risk groups or have rates that differ too much, which makes "good risk" customers subcidise "bad risk" customers.
Remove those restrictions and allow insurance operate in a free market and the interest rates will plummet for most of us while those taking risks will have to pay much more.
capt. apathy: pick your poison
And pay for it.
Fishu: But I suppose the goverment doesn't just for free will support them, so must be something of more worth behind the reasons.
It does. The bleeding-heart president struts before the TV-cameras and submits the disaster relief bill which the bleeding-heart congress swiftly approves.
Politics.
miko
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Oh don't you worry...those numbies who stay or built too close to water will boohoo for tax dollars to rebuild their water front home...
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by miko2d
Curval: The incentive should be THE LAW.
You are simply not allowed to build a wooden home here..
Who the heck are you to tell people where they can or cannot live? Or mandate that their houses must be bulldosed all of a sudden because of your newfangled standard?
While you are at it, why not mandate all population in the US must live in gender-segregated barracks with total lockdown after 9PM. That would cut down on most social ills, accidents, etc.
Insurance rates would go down, as would all (or at least most of) the subsides you hate.
B.S. The situation you describe is the result of teh government intervention and mor eintervention will not help but only produce more negative side-effects.
Insurance rates only go up for the rest of us when people buld unsafe houses or drive unsafely because there are legal limitation on insurers.
They are not allowed to segregate customers into similar risk groups or have rates that differ too much, which makes "good risk" customers subcidise "bad risk" customers.
Remove those restrictions and allow insurance operate in a free market and the interest rates will plummet for most of us while those taking risks will have to pay much more.
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Strange Miko...I give you an example of a solution to something you are moaning about..ie subsidising the destruction of the people living in "dangerous areas" and you start this?
Fact is...it works.
People ARE building unsafe house you bozo...they are wood..and they tend to fly apart in high winds.
If you forced everyone to build houses that wouldn't fly apart in a hurricane how can insurance costs possibly go up? CLEARLY they would drop. THINK...you wouldn't have claims for all those wooden toothpicks every time a hurricane hit.
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Secure your home and leave. You will loose less if you leave than if you stay and loose your life along with your home. Anything else is stupid.
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Not sure about this, but I thought the police or sheriff dept. closed roads into a low lying seashore area, such as a barrier island, etc... Sometimes evacuations are ordered, if the storm is a bad one. I don't think you have a choice then but to evacuate.
A cat 2 hurricane is pretty bad, but not as bad as a 3 or 4. I'd guess and say it's risky to stay, but probably not suicidal. May not have access to anything for three or four weeks, though, depending where it is. CAT 2 is not a catastrophic hurricane.
Though take all normal precautions, if you stay there, it is possible your house could be destroyed. I would definitely have some life jackets on hand.
Not quite in the stupid catagory on this one...I hope. I know of folks who stayed on Daupin Island during Hurricane Frederick in '79. CAT 4 hurricane....the eye was a direct hit and passed over the island. They came out ok, no one was killed...it's amazing.
Les
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Yeah, a .22 gunshot wound is bad, but not as bad as a .45.......
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Gadfly, if that's a veiled threat toward me, I take threats seriously. Wanted you to know.:D
Les
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Huh!? It was a reference to the difference between a cat 2 and a cat 3 storm, i.e. they can both kill you.
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With all due respect Gadfly, I think it's a poor choice of words...perhaps for both of us. I'm not a thinking man, but it does seem to be incongruent with the subject to bring firearm calibers into the discussion.
That's all. Carry on!!!
Les
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OK, let me restate:
A 4x4 up side the head will kill you, but the incrementally smaller amount of damage inflicted by a 2x4 does not lessen the fact of your death.
Better?
edit for clarity
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Suit yourself.
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kind of a "you can't get more dead" or "a little bit pregnant"
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Or more to the point of the thread-Stupid.
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Awwww, you're talking about the powerful forces of the hurricane. I thought you were gonna hit me upside the head with a 2 x 4. Guess that ain't gonna happen, ya Golly-geemed wuss. j/k
Les
:cool:
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Ok stop that...you guys are killing me :rofl
Lived near Wilmington in Carolina Beach for a couple of years, no way would I even consider for a second staying, the streets flooded at high tide!
In-laws are coming for the weekend and they live 50 miles inland.
We had a stilt home but it was a rental, there would be a lot of steel and concrete in my home were it close to the beach. I would have pre-fabricated window and door covers because 'canes are part of living near the beach. But once they were up I would be off to a cabin in the mountains, where it's 'safe'.
A 2 x 4 and a 4 X 4 could cause an equal amount of damage, all depends on the velocity. Just thought I'd throw that in there. :D
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they should stay if they want..
but they shouldn't expect someone else to risk their life to rescue them if the worst happens as they have been warned.
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My call on it is that it is stupid to think staying will make a difference in damage to the structure. The hurricane will not care if they are there. The house won't withstand the forces of nature any better if it is occupied. Leave the damn thing and come back later to pick up the pieces or see if it took any damage. Staying should disqualify folks for some insurance claims IMO, particularly if they die due to their own damn decision.
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Mav, I agree with what you are saying, but think of it this way:
All of your possessions, EVERYTHING you own, is in that house. You leave. The house gets significant damage. You are not able to get back to it before someone pilfers anything left of value.
It isn't as easy as you think to simply "up and leave"...especially when the hurricane is a Cat 2 and there is a great likihood that the damage isn't going to be that bad.
If it was 4 or 5 then I'd think about leaving. A 2? No way.
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Curval,
Think of it this way.
If the house collapses on you and you are dead your valuable possessions won't matter. If you have insurance, make a claim after you return. If you don't have insurance get it, before the huirricane. Grab your photos and other light stuff and get outa dodge. "Stuff" ain't worth a damn to a corpse. You can also get dead from those who are doing the pilfering as well.
If all you are doing is staying to guard your "stuff" you have just placed a monetary value on your existence. Is it the right valuation??? YMMV.
FWIW, I know that hurricanes are seldom an instant emergency so I am strongly in favor of allowing mom nature to have her way in peace and I'l' get outa her way.