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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on September 19, 2003, 06:58:01 PM

Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 19, 2003, 06:58:01 PM
Quote
Trust me, there are several countries on this planet that have a clean record when it comes to international affairs.



Since you dont wish divulge the name of your country why not at least list some of the others you consider to fit the above description.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: ra on September 19, 2003, 07:34:18 PM
Tibet!
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 19, 2003, 07:44:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ra
Tibet!


Nope.. ;)

During the reign of King Songtsen Gampo (629-49) Tibet became a great military power and her armies marched across Central Asia.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: john9001 on September 19, 2003, 08:42:49 PM
i'm not sure what "clean record" means , but i would like to nominate Monaco.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Gadfly on September 19, 2003, 09:21:30 PM
Atlantis
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: majic on September 19, 2003, 10:23:43 PM
As I understand it Atlantis was pretty naughty.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Gadfly on September 19, 2003, 11:12:15 PM
Yeah, but there are no facts for the Liberals to misinterpret.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: AKIron on September 20, 2003, 12:11:53 AM
Antartica?
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Siaf__csf on September 20, 2003, 02:51:54 AM
Grunherz with your superior wit and the fresh liberty of your american citizenship, you can figure them out by yourself.

And no, I'm not talking about ex-yugoslavia where you are coming from. It always amazes me to see someone bash his old homecontinent practically before his immigration stamp has even dried off.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 20, 2003, 03:04:24 AM
How about you just tell us which countries you had in mind... Please.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Tumor on September 20, 2003, 03:10:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Grunherz with your superior wit and the fresh liberty of your american citizenship, you can figure them out by yourself.

And no, I'm not talking about ex-yugoslavia where you are coming from. It always amazes me to see someone bash his old homecontinent practically before his immigration stamp has even dried off.


(http://members.shaw.ca/boutari/Home/pics/Sit%20in%20corner.jpg)
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Toad on September 20, 2003, 03:11:56 AM
Quote
Trust me, there are several countries on this planet that have a clean record when it comes to international affairs.


You forget Grun.... he uses a five month timeline. :D
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Siaf__csf on September 20, 2003, 03:55:23 AM
Toad, what's the suitable timeline for you then?

One generation? Two? Ten?

If you dig up long enough, maybe the ancestors at some time did something bad. You're right in that. Adam beat up Eve..

The fact remains that there are plenty of independent, neutral and peaceloving countries of our century that did not participate in military actions other than self defense. Countries that did not induce revolutions and meddle with other countries internal businesses such as the two leading forces running the cold war.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 20, 2003, 04:00:01 AM
Notice how the definition of peaceful miracle countries has broadened to those countries excluding:

"the two leading forces running the cold war"

But even then he  still refuses to name a country on his list.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Siaf__csf on September 20, 2003, 04:13:14 AM
You're persistent aren't you? :)

There are darn many countries I could name. Starting with whole of scandinavia, parts of central europe, small countries in eurasia etc.

Bear in mind, I'm talking only about modern politics - if you want to dig up stuff centuries ago, that stuff doesn't really interest me since none of those people even live today. Naturally if you look far enough, that list does narrow up quite a bit. I meant the generation of our time.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 20, 2003, 04:22:58 AM
Name countries.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Tuomio on September 20, 2003, 09:19:44 AM
Finland! Well uh, after -44 that is..:)

Its not that we dont want to kick some foreign arse, we just dont have the resources available..YET! :mad:
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Toad on September 20, 2003, 09:38:17 AM
Ah, his country gets to use "the generation of our time" as the standard for true wholesome goodness.

I'm suprised it isn't five months but I guess we can't ask for that sort of consistency.

Anyway, as Dana Carvey would have said, "how conVEEEEEEEEEEENient".

Laughable.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: vorticon on September 20, 2003, 11:52:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Antartica?


thats a continent

but the penguins are planning an invasion...




*pulls out lawn chair*
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: AKIron on September 20, 2003, 12:33:40 PM
It's also a country and I own it. ;)
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: FUNKED1 on September 20, 2003, 01:10:11 PM
Portugal!
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Frogm4n on September 20, 2003, 01:11:43 PM
Costa Rica!
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: vorticon on September 20, 2003, 01:12:58 PM
mexico

new zealand

panama

babelon
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: SaburoS on September 20, 2003, 01:15:22 PM
Lichtenstein. Good thing that powerhouse of a country is peaceful. Imagine their taking over the whole of Europe if they weren't ;)
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Pooh21 on September 20, 2003, 01:27:32 PM
Swaziland!

French Surinam

noticing every country listed in this thread is also quite useless. Except as sweatshop labor
:D
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: SaburoS on September 20, 2003, 01:31:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
You're persistent aren't you? :)

There are darn many countries I could name. Starting with whole of scandinavia, parts of central europe, small countries in eurasia etc.

Bear in mind, I'm talking only about modern politics - if you want to dig up stuff centuries ago, that stuff doesn't really interest me since none of those people even live today. Naturally if you look far enough, that list does narrow up quite a bit. I meant the generation of our time.


Care to define exactly your time definition? Heck it would have been so much simpler to just state it in your first post. I guess we can forget about Nazi Germany, Imperialist Japan, USSR, China, France, England, Cambodia (just to name but a few)?

Some define "modern" history as 1898 - present. Some post WWII. Care to give us a starting date?
Title: LOL saif
Post by: GtoRA2 on September 20, 2003, 05:11:32 PM
Uber troll!

Why do we waste our time on this joke?
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: mietla on September 20, 2003, 05:14:03 PM
Hey Siaf__csf,

aren't you glad you've started this thread?
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 20, 2003, 05:16:22 PM
I'm not entirely sure it's a troll as the boy's stupid enough to actullay have convinced himself that his country, Switzerland,  wasnt happlily helping the nazis conquer, enslave and murder millions of people during WW2 by financing the nazi war machine.

Of course this might all of a sudden become a troll if, if,  it ever dawns on him what an idiot he's made of himself.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Boroda on September 20, 2003, 06:02:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'm not entirely sure it's a troll as the boy's stupid enough to actullay have convinced himself that his country, Switzerland,  wasnt happlily helping the nazis conquer, enslave and murder millions of people during WW2 by financing the nazi war machine.


So you think that "financing the nazi war machine" is a crime worse then voluntary helping nazis with military power, invading independant countries together with them and taking part in what is now called genocide?...

Nice. Hrungerz finaly found out who's really guilty for the nazis and their suppoters military crimes.

Maybe it's a good excuse for Croatian generals who are wanted by international court too?

:rolleyes:
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 20, 2003, 06:09:59 PM
You see Boroda that argument is pointless with me because, unlike you and your constant excuses and justifications of Stalin and his buddies, I have come to terms that my nation had done very bad wrong things in the past and especially during the time of the Ustasha in WW2 - so frankly what you just said simply doesnt matter and does not effect me in any partiucularly hurtful way.

But for the sake of argument I am to suppose you are stating it was OK for the Swiss to finance the nazi war machine in its invasion and rape of your country Russia among others simply on account of the fact that you dont like me because I'm Croatian?

That would be pretty stupid of you wouldnt it Boroda?
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Boroda on September 20, 2003, 06:22:48 PM
Grun, accusing anyone for belonging to a certain nation or living in a certain country is stupid. That's what I want to show you.

As for you personally - every time I see you posting crap like this I remember you saying that genocide of 350000 people in Srpska Krajna was only a "nessesary measure"...

And I have to say again: Stalin was one of the greatest politicians of XX century. If you understand what I mean.

If you think that I am happy about my family members being repressed or executed in the 30s - I pity your intellectual capabilities.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 20, 2003, 06:30:57 PM
I cant even comment on what you said.  Its really pointless but hell...  I dont think the simple fact that "only" about 200,000 died in the civil war most being killed by the serbs in bosnia would really matter to you and your fantasies of evil croatians...  You do understand that it was the serb armies that marched through the other republics, and that it was the serb dominated jna that distributed weapons to serb death squads to kill their neighbors and so on on. And lets not forget the exuses you make for milisevic about kosovo and so on and so on and on and on on and n on and on...

Dont even bother responding Boroda - why waste time with you when you are mad and stupid. You just basdically said it was ok for the Swiss to finance the nazi invasion of the USSR simply because you dont like me on account of my croatian  background - yoiu do understand how mad that makes you appear and how unrealistic and obsessive your attitude towards me being croatian is?  

Just go away you wierd freak...
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Maverick on September 20, 2003, 06:33:29 PM
Boroda, Since you think stalin was such a great politician you must be positively in conniptions over ghengis khan's politics. :rolleyes:

I imaging you look up to sadumb hussein as well. Same cut of cloth from all the mass graves and "cleansing" that went on.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: miko2d on September 20, 2003, 09:12:43 PM
I guess Boroda ment that that Stalin was an extremely capable politician.

 Obviously Mav. does not know much about Ghengis Khan's politics, which probably helps him in arguments with like ignorant people - why search for facts if you can just imagine them.

 Ghengis Khan was conquering a huge empire with a few thousand mongols but mostly an army consisting of "conquered" people. He could not afford much resistance and made examples of any attempt to do so. Much overblown examples, btw - even in those times they realised that you do not have to kill a lot of prospectiev taxpayers to scare ignorants elsewhere. You can kill a few and just say that you've killed everybody. Who the heck was going to know in medieveal times?*
 
 He always offered surrender and treated surrendered very well - leaving them political power or even befrieending them, not interfering with religion, etc. and just demanding tax and unmolested passage for traders.
 Because of that fighting disappeared, military expences were reduced and peacefull trade flourished.
 Russia lost quite a lot of people during the conquest because inept rulers were too arrogant to surrender to numerically inferior attackers but too incompetent to defend their cities. Still, it is much fewer people than would have died in interncine fighting over the centuries when Russia was forcefully united in peace under the Mongol rule.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*For example the famous russian victory at Kulikov field saw 150,000 russians defeat 300,000 mongols with the combining losses of about 400,000 (in 1472?) . Of course the modern historians who measured the field, counted the throughput on the known number of briges, counted logistics and searched for corpses swear that there could not have been more than 30-50,000 total combatants there and only a few hundred appear to have been killed...

 miko
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 20, 2003, 10:06:16 PM
The Mongols were clever fellows and had the largest land empire in history includion of course huge swathes of current day russia including even in the west, I do wonder what Boroda's slant on that part of Russian history is.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Boroda on September 21, 2003, 10:17:49 AM
Grun, you get offended when I say something about Croatians, while keep on bashing people for their countries/nations? Strange.

On this board you are the person who spoke too much things not suitable for sane person. Including justification of genocide and praising Chechen terrorists. You supported people who want to blow up MY house!

Yes, if you want - I am from barbaric communist orthodox country, and I am proud of it. Just look at my avatar, it is here mostly to make people like you angry. But unlike most of the people attacking me here you probably know that hammer and a sickle are not traditional Russian weapons.

As for being Croatian - man, I root (is it a right word?) for Croatian team in almost every international sport. We are Slavs, and we can easily understand each other's language. I am so angry sometimes only because I see a usual Western media attitude, as old as the first Crusade.

Miko, did you read Lev Gumilev's works? The key books on Mongol history are "Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe" and "Quest for an imaginary kingdom" ("Древняя Русь и Великая Степь" и "В поисках вымышленного царства"). The latter is dedicated to relations between different Christian confessions. His main work is called "Ethnogenesis and the Biosphere of Earth" ("Этногенез и биосфера Земли").

Gumilev's idea is that there was no "Tatar yoke", and there was only one Horde state, including Russian principates. BTW, Kulikovo field battle was in fact a fight with rebels against Horde, where Russian troops helped legimate Tatar "government".

BTW, the main reason for destruction of Ryazan', Vladimir and other Russian cities was that local princes executed Tatar ambassadors, committing the worst crime - betrayal of confidets (bad words here, in Russian it's "предательство доверившихся"). Batiy was only a Tatar prince who "travelled" with his guards (400 Mongol warriors) and 5000 other troops. They came to Russian cities only to ask for some food for horses...
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Maverick on September 21, 2003, 01:35:57 PM
miko, your own post validates my comparison with stalin and gengis khan. Both annexed land using force, both used the subject people to enforce their agenda, both "made examples" of those who resisted. Yep I can see how they weren't alike.  You'll have to forgive me if I don't see that as a particularly good style of politics to admire. You are welcome to join boroda in that regard if you wish. :rolleyes:

Before you bring up the old west in America, yep we did similar things. It was not a good example of what should be done. We try to insure we don't repeat that type of action. "Manifest Destiny" is no longer a valid doctrine.

Copied from another thread.
miko you are welcome to put me on your ignore list. Your opinions, particularly of me, are of no real concern of mine. I have a sufficient opinion of you that needs no further modification irregardless of your pseudo-intellectual arguements. Have a nice day.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 21, 2003, 02:33:16 PM
Boroda I ont get offended if say true things like that many croatians were evil Ustase nazi types during WW2 that commited awful atrocities. Of course many were also partizans fighting the nazias too.  But when you start blatantly lying that Croatians killed 350,000 people during a quick attack in a military operation coordinated with NATO and planned by the US military advisorrs then I will call you on it.  Thats simply a rediculous lie that shows your bias and hatred of croatians.

As for the Chechens I have no special love for the terrorists but frankly I think it was beyond idiotic and beyond barbaric the way you guys leveled grozny in a fasion unseen since the terror bombings of WW2.  If thtas the way you guys wanna wage a "anti terrorist" operation then so be it - but dont come here whining for sympathy when some of those guys wanna get back a bit at you.  And dont even try to make a comparision with 911.  

I dont find your hammer sicle avatar cute at all - hundreds of milluions of dead and billions spirttually dead are all that symboy means over the past century.
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: Angus on September 22, 2003, 04:20:00 AM
Iceland would perhaps be a candidate?
Of course we stole women from the British isles a thousand years ago, - however we repaid with fish to Britain in WW2 thereby feeding their war machine, so I wonder.....
Title: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about...
Post by: AHGOD on September 22, 2003, 11:13:18 AM
Greenland.  Who wants to fight for that POS?