Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Malleus on September 20, 2003, 06:48:25 PM
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Okay, yeah, I'm whining....... :D
But can you enable some U.S. planes with some compatible firepower to the N1Ks in the CT?
I am QUITE good in the P-47, but when you have a solid WAVE of N1Ks around you, it is damn hard to do anything.
The best K/D ratio sortie I had this evening was a 3 killer, and they were ALL D3As. And I THINK I winged a Zero once....
But there are freaking N1Ks all over.
Wasn't there only one squadron in the Okinowa region during this fight? :confused:
Any chance of giving us SOMETHING with cannons? :p
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Yeah like the -C, cannon for cannon trade off. Seems only fair.
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Whining is cool, we all do it and sometimes it helps to make for a better set up, so feal free:)
"But can you enable some U.S. planes with some compatible firepower to the N1Ks in the CT? "
In terms of Just gun capabality's (not ordance carying capabality) the US planes are at in many ways an advantage over the Japanese planes. The 50 Cal out ranges all the japanese guns by a signastudmuffinant margine, it has for example 2 to 3 times the effective range of the Type 99 MK II cannons on the George. Most all the US planes cary a very large ammo load compared to the Japanese planes. All the US planes are very hard target's, while the Japanese ones are comparatively easy to kill with a good burst of 50 Call. So while the George has a slight advantage in True Hitting power per shell, this is not such a huge advantage for the above reasion's. Hsipanos are far more effective than the Cannons on the George, both in Hitting power effective range and in over all efectivenss aganst all types of targets, Ground, GV, ect, so coupled with the Huge ordance delevery advantage the US always has the C Hog would be over kill and is not neaded since the US realy has the Firpower (gun wise) advantage in this set up over all.
Their were Several George Units that particapated in the Okinawa Campagine, I can think of Three off hand ( but I am to lazy to pull out a book and look it up:) ), their were also several Ki 84, Ki 100 and Late model Ki 61 units at Okinawa as well, Obviously we dont have these planes in AH so we most make do with the George standing in for all of those (in most case's) better preforming planes. Not to hope on my soap box hear but The Japanese are also screwed in terms of their Atack planes The Kate and the Val were not being used in the front lines at this time of the war and since AH does not have the Jill,Juddy,Grace, Randy or Francis were forced to use 1930's planes in their stead, so again the Allies have it much better in this set than they would if we had those planes in AH, All of Which saw service over Okinawa (except maybe the Grace....).
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Hola Brady
I understand what your saying about firepower, but Vought F4U-1C and F4U-4 was in action in Okinawa 1945 and I was wonder if you enable them, turn into them as a perk plane(i have too much perk point lol).
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Why? Don't bother.
Brady just allowing a variant of the Hog ... much less two ... is practically a sign of the second coming. Don't push our luck. If he added a C-Hog ... the giant meteor will hit. :eek: :p
And asking for the fleets to have identical compositions so the F4U taskforces (the only place to up a Hog) won't stick out like a sore thumb (and maybe be just a tad bit tougher for the endless waves of suiciding Peggies to sink) is definately a no-no. ;)
And asking for the fleet spawnpoints to be moved up from Antartica to maybe a sector west of a19 .. well hell .. that's ludicrous. :rolleyes:
So I say, just fight the fight and be grateful that the keys to the sandbox are in good hands. :D:rofl
Hehe .... I've already got the popcorn ready. :D
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THe F4U-1C was in action at Okianwa your right, but the problem hear is that it would cause a serious playbalance problem, so it has been left out as a result, Like I mentioned before their are several Better preforming Japanese planes we dont have in AH that were their and the Only US plane I have taken out that was their during the Battle in reasionable numbers was the C Hog, so realy the Allies have it prety good.
The 4-Hog, was in the Battle at the very end, and got very few Kill's (9 I think), so it realy played a very small part in the whole afair and it was Land based not CV based when operating at Okinawa. It was decided that sice the P47 and F4U's all had a substantial spead advantage over the Japanese planes that addding it would cause an unnessarly High performance advantage to the Allies, one exasperated agin by the absence in AH of the Better reforming Japanes planes that were hear.
Perking these is not imo a reasionable way of limiting them, like you mention many have lot's of perks and the implimantion of perk planes and seting their values is dificult to do and we dont (the CT Staff) have the tools to do it.
Arlo has a point as well, the Hog's are limited in the since that they are confined to Certain fleat's, that is intenioal, I dont think though that their are any special efforts on the Empire side to atack these single fleats, they are simply easer to sink....
I was woried at first that the fleats might be placed to far south but they seam to be ever present in this set up so I am not to concerned, they also rarely all go down at once so this is not a big problem, since if they do I scoot them up a bit closer when they spawn so the action stays good.
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Then either the CV fleets all need to have the same composition as TF01 or the spawnpoints need to be bumped to the sector east of a19. Why ruin the fun of the -1 or -1d pilots to supposedly make the map "fun for all?" Seriously Brady .... that's pretty one-sided thinking. Are you still convinced that the F4Us in this setup overpower everything? Even when it's been proven that other Allied planes fair better (the P-47 and the F6F)?
If you were a dedicated A6M5 pilot and the setup had them on one CV that was easy to sink and spawned in Antartica, would you be enjoying this map? :D
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Placing the F4U's on the easly sunk CV's was intended to cause you as much personal anxst and frustration as posable, the fact that it was also a good playbalance deschion was an added bonus.:)
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If it was actually a good play balance "deschion" instead of a handsomehunk one .. I wouldn't mind. ;)
And heeeere's the EASY fix. Enable F4U-1ds from A19. You're welcome. :D
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Why? Even if the cv is sunk the fleet spawn area is closer to okinaw then 19.
The whole battle area is small and the only effect it has is when the "admiral" sails the fleet in close. Ki67s like to do the suicide raids but a good 5 inch gunner can dispatch them.
Keep the fleets at a safe distance and you wont have to worry about losing your favorite ride.
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Thanks for the explanation, Brady and Batz, I can deal with that.
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Originally posted by Batz
Why? Even if the cv is sunk the fleet spawn area is closer to okinaw then 19.
No ... 19 is closer to the fight than the fleet spawn area in Antarctica (the fight extends from the western shore all the way to 19). But since you've chosen to make this one of the apparent points of argument:
1: IF there's no difference ... why not move the spawnpoint east of 19 .... just for appeasement's sake?
2: Wouldn't having the fleet spawns closer to 19 help ensure that the game is balanced somewhat? After all, the first move made by the IJ players once the fleets are sunk (often before) is to commit themselves to an all out assault of the 2 Allied land bases on the islands west (which, for play balance sake, should really be all three bases on all three islands, but I'm not even petitioning for such - hell, look at how my suggesting F4U-1ds on 19 was received). And if the fleets spawn near (but on the other side) of the Allies rearmost toehold then it would help ensure that there's still some sort of fight going on and not set things up for an Axis reset ... like it is now.
3: It's obvious that having the F4U allied CV fleets easier to sink is Brady's (and your) version of "game play balance" (take the F4Us out of the equation easier and more often) .... and that being the case, that you would want the fleets to spawn in south bum-fugopia. So I'm not all that surprised that Brady balks at the idea of either the spawnpoints being relocated or the F4U getting a land base. Asking for either of those reasonable concessions is an act of futility, I know ... but I had to go through the motions just so you couldn't plead ignorance to those options later down the line when someone else runs the setup, tries it .. and finds out it works better. ;)
Originally posted by Batz
The whole battle area is small and the only effect it has is when the "admiral" sails the fleet in close. Ki67s like to do the suicide raids but a good 5 inch gunner can dispatch them.
If you'd bothered to read anything else I've posted, you'd already realize that I've mentioned my own desire for players to stop running ships to shore as if it was an up-the-middle 5-yard dive-for-the-goal-line play. But your suggestion that a player (or players) spend all their time in a 5-incher defending allied fleets from non-stop waves of Peggies going after the "easy fleets" jibes really well with the ideology of "making the CT arena better balanced arena and more fun for all." Obviously you weren't there last night when the Axis pilots started complaining that the Allied players were spending too much time in gun positions and not enough in the air. ;)
Originally posted by Batz
Keep the fleets at a safe distance and you wont have to worry about losing your favorite ride.
Make the setup and design NOT aimed at making sure that the F4U is included in the planeset in a token status only and that it can be easily removed from play by dedicated IJ carrier taskforce assaults ... and I won't have to worry about losing my favorite ride. :D
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Brady, Just enable F4U1C cuz they are marines planes and they take off from the base.
!
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I believe brady set cv hardness at 4k instead of 8k, thats all cvs not just the f4u fleets. Thats purposely done to stop fleet parking and is in line with other setups. Its not f4u exclusive no matter what you may think.
The fleet spawn area is 2 and 1/2 sectors south of 13 and 19 is just over 2 sectors from 11 and 10. So either way whats the big deal?
You need to talk to kanttori about changing the fleet spawns. Thats done by the map maker. Brady cant "balk" at that because its not within his control. The onething players can do to see to it that the fleets stay a float is cap them and not bring them in close. This isnt pointed at you but in general. But even so it solves just about everyone of your complaints.
Spend some time convincing your fellow admirals and you may actually get some where. Brady has been consistant in his replies.
As for the rest of your whine its just the same 'ole brady hates me and navy planes.... So what...........
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Prety much your favorate ride is always Available Arlo, the thing is that while the singel CV fleats are easer to make respawn, they are only down for around 10 min untill they do respawn, now their are two fleats that suport the F4U's, so at any one time one is bound to be close to the action, certainly withen 5 min flying time.
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Originally posted by Batz
I believe brady set cv hardness at 4k instead of 8k, thats all cvs not just the f4u fleets. Thats purposely done to stop fleet parking and is in line with other setups. Its not f4u exclusive no matter what you may think.
Too late. It's been admitted that the composition of the F4U fleets was purposefully done to make them easier to sink. Nice try, Jethro. ;)
Originally posted by Batz
The fleet spawn area is 2 and 1/2 sectors south of 13 and 19 is just over 2 sectors from 11 and 10. So either way whats the big deal?
Fine ... then you wouldn't mind the change. I'll put you down as a "yes." :D
Originally posted by Batz
You need to talk to kanttori about changing the fleet spawns. Thats done by the map maker. Brady cant "balk" at that because its not within his control. The onething players can do to see to it that the fleets stay a float is cap them and not bring them in close. This isnt pointed at you but in general. But even so it solves just about everyone of your complaints.
And I gave Brady an easy fix (or at least a decent compromise) since I suspected that. F4U-1ds at a19. :)
Originally posted by Batz
Spend some time convincing your fellow admirals and you may actually get some where. Brady has been consistant in his replies.
Don't give me that crud. You know as well as I do that I can't make hard-headed "commodores" do what I want them to. LOL
Originally posted by Batz
As for the rest of your whine its just the same 'ole brady hates me and navy planes.... So what...........
And it's just the same `ol you running to his side and blathering any `ol gibberish to support it. Still trying to influence the coaches from the sideline? You and me both, brother. Only I'm not holding Brady's strings, am I? ;)
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Originally posted by brady
Prety much your favorate ride is always Available Arlo, the thing is that while the singel CV fleats are easer to make respawn, they are only down for around 10 min untill they do respawn, now their are two fleats that suport the F4U's, so at any one time one is bound to be close to the action, certainly withen 5 min flying time.
LOL ... Do you even look at this map from the allied side when you pop in? I mean ... other than switching over to take control of Allied fleets and keep control of them via staff privileges to ensure they get sunk? ;)
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LOL ... Do you even look at this map from the allied side when you pop in? I mean ... other than switching over to take control of Allied fleets and keep control of them via staff privileges to ensure they get sunk?
Is this going to be adressed? The fact that a CM circumvented normal gameplay to take control of a fleet while its was under heavy attack. Then managed to park it in perfect range for SB, Pts, and suicide Peggys to make quik work of 4 CVs in the TG. Who regulates the CMs for the CT anyway?
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Bah let the IJN have an advantage for a change. All too often the players who fly as Axis in PAC setups have to suffer a heavy deathtoll through having to fly very old types versus late Allied planes.
And im not speaking for selfish reasons , Im not flying as IJN so i really dont care too much but what i do know is when i have flown for IJN in CT in the past 90% of the time you feel exactly the same as you have described for LONG periods.
i.e. when flying zeros because no Niks are made available and having to fight P38s and f6fs and F4us. Its not a great deal of fun and thats why IJN often have poor numbers.Let them enjoy a bit of advantage as a fair exchange for all those times when they have had to fly as the underdog.I think it would be fair to switch it now and then, you'll get more people in i bet.
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Originally posted by hazed-
Bah let the IJN have an advantage for a change. All too often the players who fly as Axis in PAC setups have to suffer a heavy deathtoll through having to fly very old types versus late Allied planes.
Since when? Not the last few late PACs.
Originally posted by hazed-
And im not speaking for selfish reasons , Im not flying as IJN so i really dont care too much but what i do know is when i have flown for IJN in CT in the past 90% of the time you feel exactly the same as you have described for LONG periods.
Again ... since when? Brady pushes the F4F vs Zeke in the Guadalcanal terrain. When it comes to late PAC, the F4U hasn't had any sort of free reign since I've been playing. It's either not in the set at all or it's handicapped by putting it on one field in bumfug backwaterville or on a single CV group (2 if you count TWO variants being allowed) that is DESIGNED to be sunk easily if it's brought closer than 3 sectors from the fight.
Originally posted by hazed-
i.e. when flying zeros because no Niks are made available and having to fight P38s and f6fs and F4us. Its not a great deal of fun and thats why IJN often have poor numbers.Let them enjoy a bit of advantage as a fair exchange for all those times when they have had to fly as the underdog.I think it would be fair to switch it now and then, you'll get more people in i bet.
Nobody is even suggesting taking away the N1K. Nobody is even suggesting limiting the N1K2J. Some have suggested adding the C-Hog as something of an equalizer to the N1K2J but I haven't. I merely made some suggestions that allow the F4U players a chance to fly their ride in as uninhibited manner as the N1K drivers. Actually ... not even going that far since N1Ks are available anywhere. N1Ks are available and within a decent range of the fight at all times. That's fine. Now "Mr. Balanced Playing Field" needs to learn what that phrase actually means. And that's accepting the assumption that the average F4U driver is on an equal footing with the average N1K driver with odds that are somewhat equal.
So there we stand. I suggested some very reasonable options to allow the F4U to stay in constant play. Even if only one is within the power of Brady to allow .. he won't because he has an unrealistic fear about that plane. I've not suggested limiting or eliminating any of the aircraft or vehicles the IJ players have - not the N1k2J .. not the Ki-67 ... not anything. I've not suggested adding anything to the Allied planeset (and others who have ... have reconsidered).
And to this you add "Let the IJ players have an advantage ... for once?" *chuckle*
Let Brady just add the F4U to the friggin planeset for the Allies without having to turn it into a song and dance routine to "limit it's negative impact" ... for once. The BS argument about that specific plane model unbalancing a late PAC setup got old long ago. It's been disproven. And what's really funny is ... since it hinges on, of all things, the F4U's top end speed superiority ... you'd think Brady woulda slit his throat before allowing P-47s free reign.
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"other than switching over to take control of Allied fleets and keep control of them via staff privileges to ensure they get sunk"
I compleatly resent any implication that I in anyway use my posation to do anything of the sort, heck i dident even know I could take controle over a fleat unless I outranked someone, If I take controle of a fleat during gameplay it is because I have the rank to do so and I use that player privalage to use it how I see fit. Since I am aware now that I can take controle as a CM from a player I will when acting as a player try and be aware that I dont take controle of a fleat unless I realy do out rank the player I am taking it from.
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Originally posted by brady
"other than switching over to take control of Allied fleets and keep control of them via staff privileges to ensure they get sunk"
I compleatly resent any implication that I in anyway use my posation to do anything of the sort, heck i dident even know I could take controle over a fleat unless I outranked someone, If I take controle of a fleat during gameplay it is because I have the rank to do so and I use that player privalage to use it how I see fit. Since I am aware now that I can take controle as a CM from a player I will when acting as a player try and be aware that I dont take controle of a fleat unless I realy do out rank the player I am taking it from.
ROFL! I suppose you forgot that I was there and witnessed it. Slash made mention numerous times to you that it seemed odd that he couldn't take command of the fleet since he outranked you in the rankings. You basically replied, "Durrrr ... ok." Slash asked you to either command it smarter or turn over command to someone who would. You basically replied, "Durrr ... didn't know I could do this." Slash begged and pleaded with you to at least get the fleet out of harm's way. You basically replied, "Durrrr ... didn't know I could do this." The fleet was sunk. Slash and I both congratulated you on your service to the Emperor. You basically replied, "Durrrr ... didn't know I could do this."
Intentional sabotage or extreme stupidity? That's the only two options I can figure ... unless you think you can come up with something better - then feel free to enlighten me on what went down from your pov, sir. :D
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Then perhaps you witnesed me saying he could take it back if he wanted, the only reasion I took it in the first place was to turn it out of the torps way and stear it behing the island whear their were no SB's. As to the input from other players to me while I am in comand of a fleat, I appraciate their input but I dedide what is to be done with it right or wrong, and as you are I am shure well aware their is no defense from a sucide atack and that is waht eveunatialy sunk it.
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Don't worry Brady, the CT always balances out one way or another.
The interesting thing I find is how dynamic everyone who plays in the CT. If you're being overwhealmed by a CV, guys up in planes to sink the ships. If there are tanks on the ground, you up in ground attack planes. If the enemy fighters outclass you, you simply climb higher and stick closer together.
Lets face it, when it comes to the skill of the CT player, we would kick arse in a mini duel with the MA dweebs. :D
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Originally posted by brady
Then perhaps you witnesed me saying he could take it back if he wanted, the only reasion I took it in the first place was to turn it out of the torps way and stear it behing the island whear their were no SB's. As to the input from other players to me while I am in comand of a fleat, I appraciate their input but I dedide what is to be done with it right or wrong, and as you are I am shure well aware their is no defense from a sucide atack and that is waht eveunatialy sunk it.
To which he replied .... "No Brady. I can't. It won't let me."
Did you relinquish command? No. Even after Slash informed you that he thought your status as a CM was affecting ranking you didn't.
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All I saw in the bufer was " I dont Want it", but I was prety busy so I may of missed it. Like I said I will pay more atention to this in the future.
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:: carefully dresses in fire retardant suit, with fire retardant jell underneath and grabs fire extinguisher::
Gentlemen please understand the following comments are not personal attacks. Also, try to keep in mind that I have no axe to grind. Finally, I am not a 100% CT flyer so I have nothing invested in this. I fly in the CT because I get tired of the N1K/Spit/P51/La7 swarms of brainless MA pilots and enjoy matching attacks with the pilots in the CT because you are all generally more skilled.
1) Brady and the CV control
Brady, I find it totally impossible to believe that you were not aware that you could control a TF irrespective of rank. In BoB I watched as you grabbed control of a CV and yanked it around despite the fact that I was rank 16 at that point. I also find it insulting that you expect us to believe this. In your defense however it is true that the western side of the island with A20 on it only has a single SB as opposed to the 3 SBs on the East so the idea of moving the TF along that coast is a better idea. That you did not release control when asked repeatedly is no credit to you.
2) N1Ks or the lack of 20mm armed Allied aircraft
Today I watched 4 N1Ks strafe a VH into oblivion with their 20mm guns. True there were 4 bombs dropped, 4 500lb weapons plus several hundred 20mms equaled dead VH. Not 2 hours earlier I had to fly 3 sorties to pull this off (B26 strike which totally missed, 2 fully hvy P47 strikes which finally destroyed it). Each of these sorties had to be flown heavy with the attendant risks and delays while a few N1Ks were able to blast the same type of target with minimal delay, risk, or annoyance.
3) 20mms revisited
In general I like the idea of hardened ack. However the lack of 20mm shells in any of the allied aircraft poses another special problem in dealing with them. I watched a field get de-acked today in astonishingly short order by the 20mm armed IJN planes. Previous attempts by me to accomplish this same goal met with a level of success that can only be called poor. I tried using bombs, rockets, and guns; and yes I did kill the ack but not with the same level of ease that a N1K with a pair of 500lb bombs and 900 20mm rounds could and did.
4) 20mms Take 3
Anyone care to comment on how to deal with KI67s without a 20mm gun? Here is my comment... I am so not going to try this trick again. P47s, F6Fs and F4Us no dice! Those KI67s have uber guns, are way to fast, and take more punishment than it is worth. 2 days ago the only air-to-air deaths I suffered came at the hands of the KI67s (other than the 2 vulches which I don't count). Before anyone goes off and starts with the "well fly better blabber" an anecdote from last week in the MA on Baltic... flying KI61 sorties I intercepted and destroyed 5 formations of B17s and Lancasters in consecutive sorties.
5) Arlo's perception that Brady hates F4Us
Personally, I find this difficult to understand. I regularly argue with squadmates about sorties in the Hog. I've even taken an insubordination charge for refusing a direct order to fly that amazing hunk of garbage in the MA. Great it dives really well and has a nice roll rate. Tell that to the LA7 that flew loops around us after climbing to 10,000' and just blew my vertical stab off. Brady, honestly none of Arlo's suggestions regarding the Hogs seems out of order. Put them in... really... just do it, even the F4U-4 (perked at around 10 or so). If necessary grab one of the German planes (190D9 for instance) perk it for around 5 give it to the IJN and call it a limited run prototype KI84. If nothing else this will make Arlo look like a whining love muffin since you did what he swore you never would. At best it will show that you are a member of the community and do actually listen to all the wonderful advice that we heap upon you.
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Originally posted by brady
All I saw in the bufer was " I dont Want it", but I was prety busy so I may of missed it. Like I said I will pay more atention to this in the future.
Alright, I'll accept this as sincere and I apologize, then.
Now ... back to the F4U issue. Since the fleet composition and spawnpoints are out of your hands, will you consider either allowing them at least one shore spawnpoint (be it A19, A18, whatever) or enable the F4U-1d to be flown off of TF01 as well as TF04? US fleet carriers at that time fielded both the F6F and the F4U and I still assert that having the F4U more readily available to players in the CT who enjoy flying it does not affect play balance. Again, your argument that the F4U's top end speed (or even it's ammo load or lethality) gives it an unfair edge over the "George" (or even the "Tony" for that matter) flies in the face of your allowing the P-47 to have more latitude. This is indeed a "fun play" issue as well. If you were to ask all the CT participants at this time if my suggested compromise is unfair, I wonder what the overall concensus would be? Do all IJ players (dedicated or those who hop back and forth) think that the F4U has any inherent advantage over them in a N1K2J that isn't directly attributed to pilot skill?
Please be aware that I've flown both the F4U (both variants) and the N1k2J in this setup and have noticed from a personal standpoint how much easier it is to land kills in the N1K2J than it is for either F4U.
I'm even willing to duel you in the DA - Me in a "George" vs you in either F4U in the current setup. Winner accepts the other's options and either implements changes or accepts things as they are. I'm not a "George" vet.
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"Brady, I find it totally impossible to believe that you were not aware that you could control a TF irrespective of rank"
Since I generaly have a low rank taking a CV is not somthing I pay much atention to, I take it for granted that I can take controle. Their are a lot of things to do with powers and setings for the CT Staff that even now I am not fully aware of, just recently in fact I was enlightened as to our abailitys to Mute people for being disruptave for example. The Insunation that I am lying to you hear is very offensive.
2)The VH's are set to 5K in this set up, A fully loaded P47 has aprox. 3500 pounds in ordance alone slung under it, the equilvelent of over 3 Georges in ordance. I belave that in the incedent you describe above a Panzer was also present and had been working on the Hanger for a while, so his damage coupled with all the bombs from the Georges could of easly resulted in a Hanger that could of surcome to strafing in a short order.
3) The Allied planes are far more capable platforms for dieacking a field than the Georges are, Not only can they pack 1000 pound bombs which are much easer to hit with than 500 pounders, they also pack 6 to 10 Rockets, one rocket can kill a gun, fire a couple 3 into an ack cluster and generaly you get them all, the way the clusters are aranged they are far more sustiple to bombs and rockets than they are to strafing, in this area the alies have a clear advantage they have Better stand off weapons, the Japanese have to get in fairly close to actualy hit the guns. Personaly I have much easer time in geting my 50Cal's onto a gun and hosing them down since they have a much longer range.
4) well other than fly better...The Ki 67 has a very weak tail section, and they have very weak wing tip's, I come up underneath and fire into the fuselage from below infront of the tail this typicaly snaps them off, another good spot to aim for is the wing outboard the engine necal, they snap off prety easy to. The Ki 67's tail gun also has a much more limited covered arc than say a B26, it cant depress as much so coming in from bellow and at dead six is a good spot since they cant get you their. They also have just 12.7 mm Ho 103's in the tail which have a much shorter effective range than the 50cal in the US fighter's, the 20mm Ho-5 in the dorsal turet has a very limited covered arc and can be easly avoided by staying low and behind. Of course their are some compleatly uncovered aspects defensively on the Ki 67 as well.
5) lol
Arlo: First off TY.
On the F4U issue, I have no intentions of changing anything in the present set up, I appricate that it is you favorate plane and that you would like to see it more readely available and I understand that you will most likely not stop campagining for it to be more readly available, I also understand that my points on why it is limited are falling on death ears in many instances, this is expected and frankely normal. I also am not at this point going to expound again as to why it is limited to just those two CV group's since it is not geting through anyway :)
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more of the same "po' ole allied farm boys"........
You know brady can click 1 button and sink a fleet right? or jump a fleet across the map should he chose, right? So it sounds kinda stupid for you all to claim "Brady took control of our fleet just so it could get sunk".
Vhs are 5k for all aircraft, 50 cal planes can put more rounds per sec, and thus cause more damage per sec then a niki. So to claim vhs are easily strafed by nikis is more laughable bull****. At 5k lbs it takes just 2 of almost any allied aircraft with just bombs or 1 jug or 1 dhog or 1 f6f with bombs and strafing tp kill a vh.
Killing ack by strafing is much more easy for 50 cal planes then the niki because of the higher rate of fire, like strafing the vhs 50 cal planes put more rounds per sec on target then the niki. More bull****. Plus the ack are in 3 group clusters where 1 100lb (or 2 rockets) can kill all three easily.
50 cals out range the type 99s on the ki67. In a 3 bomber formation their are only 3 20mm and their line of site is from dead 6 and higher.
It seems most of your whines are based on your own "skillz" not on what is really "balanced."
Arlo
It doesnt matter where f4us are placed or at which cv. I personally dont care if they are at 19 or 20 or whatever. But I dont make those calls. I certainly dont sgree with you that putting the dhog at a land base is "only fair". I dont see how it matters one way or the other.
The cvs travel 1/3 of a sector in 12 min. All cv take 4k bombs to sink. On the 4 cv fleets there is only 1 main cv and it still only takes 4 k bombs to sink. If that main cv is sunk flight stops. All the cv fleets give ya is more ack but they are just as easily sunk or flight stopped as the single cv fleets. The f4u-1 is is FAA colors so its at a single fleet. The Dhog is the only other f4u in the setup so he stuck it at the other single cv fleet. The 4 cvs fleets have f6fs. Perfectly logical.
I know you claim its a conspiracy against you f4u types but you all are a dime a dozen. Should you give up more will take your place. So I wouldnt expect brady to cater to ya. Which should be obvious by now.
You may wanna take up your "free the f4u campaign" with the other cms.
But if anything it seems to me that if the problem is that the cv get sunk to "easily" (whether it be because of poor admirals or suicide ki67s) then wouldnt it be better to argue for the cv to be hardened? Or to restrict the ki67s to just a few bases? Or both. Or is your whine a veiled attempt just to show how "brady hates f4us"?
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Brady, just give 'em the Chog ;) ,the IJAAF and IJN don't mind.
If it has potential of overuse or unbalancing, why not perk it at about 4 points? The Chog would be much more lethal than the Dhog for sure, but I think us flying for IJN/IJAAF can handle it.
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I extend the duel offer to Batz as well ... even though he supposedly no longer has any control or influence over the CT. :D
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I was going to take some time for a reply but since I received authorization for a day of flying Axis from my CO first I'm going to test things out.
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I find the thought that allowing the CHOG into this setup due to balance issues indefensible. I flew for quite a while in an axis squad and flew this particular setup several times. I think I qualify as a decent N1K stick and I'll tell you the plane I feared the least in this setup was a Corsair.
Corsairs have one advantage over the IJN planes, they have the potential for higher top end speed. To make this potential a reality, you have to take the required 10 minute grab flight away from the fight. It's much easier to grab up to 10K in a N1k which climbs better than 1000 fpm faster than the F4U's. Otherwise, the hog doesn't turn particularly well and it doesn't accellerate well at all. In a 1 v. 1 fight, I'd take a N1K over a any hog variant in the game.
The six .50 cals have a range ad over the N1K's, but not much of one. I've hit guys from D800 using the N1K. The real trick here is the hitting power. I can get a high deflection passing shot on any of the IJN planes with the F4U's and have plenty of hit sprites and damage it not at all. Same shot comming from an N1K is going tear the hog to pieces.
You can sit around all day long saying the Chog unbalances the arena, but it's just not true. If you don't put it into the setup, it's just because you don't want it here, end of story.
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I got np spanking ya in your own plane, it will have to be next saturday/sunday though. I wont be around the house much this week.
The niki is a slow pos. I havent flown any ah for months and flew in the main last week a bit
Batz has 7 kills and has been killed 0 times against the N1K2.
No vulching, running or 50k climb outs either.......
Every version of the f4u is faster then the niki.
According to Fork's accel tests at sl and 18k the dhog and niki accell about the same. So I dunno why you think the niki is some super plane but whatever.
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I have to agree with Najdorf, cuz he got the point lol
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Since Okinawa is just about the only campaign that included the F4U-1C and F4U-4 in real life, it sure would be nice to allow them here, probably in very limited numbers as they were in real life.
Such a great opportunity. Next time we do Okinawa, please figure a way to include them even if have to add a couple German fighters as play-likes for any corresponding late war Japanese planes not currently in Aces High.
As I recall, Okinawa had overwhelming Allied airpower and seapower, so probably wouldn't be realistic to add much more Japanese opposition, would it?
EXCEPT -- Okinawa would be the perfect scenario to add the kamikazes that caused the Allies so many casualties. How about modelling some of them next time?
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Originally posted by Batz
I got np spanking ya in your own plane, it will have to be next saturday/sunday though. I wont be around the house much this week.
The niki is a slow pos. I havent flown any ah for months and flew in the main last week a bit
Batz has 7 kills and has been killed 0 times against the N1K2.
No vulching, running or 50k climb outs either.......
Every version of the f4u is faster then the niki.
According to Fork's accel tests at sl and 18k the dhog and niki accell about the same. So I dunno why you think the niki is some super plane but whatever.
No, handsomehunk ... before the CT rotates. You just don't get this, do you? Making you look stupid a week after ain't gonna accomplish much since the late pac only rotates into the CT every 3 months or so. By then you'd be hard pressed to remember the butt kickin' you got. So if you're gonna stall and make excuses just save yourself the embarrassment and butt back out. :D
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I never said the N1K is an uber ride. I said it compares favorably with the hog in a coalt situation. Therefore, stating that the Chog destroys the balance of the CT in this setup is ridiculous.
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Whats ridiculous is folks not getting whats being said. No one said the chogs a2a prowess was a problem. Its the same as a dhog.
The chog is a field porking machine. Theres no real ground war in ah. Every bullet hit adds to set amount of damage. Hizookas cause more then most other rounds. No one thinks that the chog will unbalance the air war per se. Its the milkrunners, base porkers and those types who would pork every field. These types are inherently attracted to these types of planes.
With 5k per vh a chog could put his ord and rockets into a vh and strafe it easily. Same with the fuel tanks etc. All you would see is field porking chogs and axis flyers would just leave. When the chog went un perked in the main it got 20% of the kills not because of the great fighter it is but becuase 2 out of every three players were in one.
If you acknowledge the chog is no more a challenge then any other plane then why is it needed at all?
Increasing the structure and object hardness to offset the effect of the chog would make base attacks exponentially harder on the japanese side.
But if you read the whines in this thread its "the axis have a niki, therefore we must have chogs". First the type 99s on the niki are nothing compared to hizookas. The chog is 50 mph then the niki. The chog isnt the "solution" to the niki the fm2 and f6f are.
The F4u-4 only had 9 kills in ww2, add it to this setup and its all you will see with its 100mph speed advantage. Theres enough runners as is. There enough milkrunning base porkers as is.
Why do we need more?
Again brady has been consistant through out in these types of setups. Maybe you should take your campaign to another ct cm? You do know that despite all the *****ing he aint gonna change it?
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those planes are always available in the da wtf are you talking about?
You are of no concern to me, I have killed you a bunch. My lifetime kd in your plane is higher then you anyway.
Best i can give ya cry about it all ya want...........
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Originally posted by Batz
more of the same "po' ole allied farm boys"........
LOL, that's a keeper.
As for me, the typical US ride in WWII sported 6 .50s; the Browning .50 being their standard weapon. I can't think of any AC outside of the P-38s and P-39s as cannon armed, it just seems out of place to me. So for me, I prefer the 6 .50 loadouts on the F4Us--that was the ride most likely to encounter Jap Iron, that's a fair tradeoff for the Niki. The Paper Mache Jap planes are shredded by 6 .50s. I don't feel unergunned when against a Jap plane in any ride. It's the only time I think the Hurri I has a shot at a kill.
The tag-team of the F4U-F6F-FM2 is more than capable of stringing out any Jap AC and barbecuing its behind. I never feel bad about seeing Nikis or Ki-61s when in an FM2.
Sakai
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Batz, field porking wasn't even mentioned until two/thirds of the way thru this thread. If that was the reason it wasn't included, why wasn't it stated at the outset. Plus, you may be an ack killing machine, but the ack in both hardness and quantity seems somewhat excessive and I have a very hard time killing it.
Also, I don't really care much about taking land in the CT, I just like good a2a fights and since I am now a member of VF-17, I try to fly the hog when i can. The only setup that has a hog as an available ride is up right now, but the way it's going, the hog isn't very competitive. I find myself cheating and upping FM2's to deal with nikis because the only kind of shot I can get on them is high deflection passing shot which more often that not, even when I land rounds, I don't do any damage. There are probably plenty of more capable hog drivers than I, but I can't saddle up on a niki and blaze away. Hence my request for the Chog. Now you state the hog is faster and that is true, but it is just as true that the N1k turns circles around the hog. So are you trying to say that the fact that the N1K is much more maneuverable has no value, that the only thing with value is raw speed, which for the hog, unlike other late war rides, doesn't come on instantly like a 109 or an LA7 or even a P51 which out accellerates and has a higher top speed than the hog.
Your arguments are circular. You and brady have decided, for whatever reason is popular to you at the moment, that the Chog will not be available and that is the end of the story. I don't understand it, as many others don't, but that's brady's decision and he's made it and sticking with it. But don't try and justify it with this red herring poppiecock about it's ability to deack fields.
Many threads deal with trying to analyze why the CT can't hold any numbers, perhaps part of it has to do with the inflexibility of the CM's when the players ask for something the CM's don't like.
Oh, and before starting a reply telling me that you or brady don't have some conspiracy going to keep the hogs out of the CT, I never said you were attempting such a thing. I think you and brady believe you have valid reasons for not including it, I just disagree with your reasoning. What really upsets me is your unwillingness to at least experiment with something different or open it up to meaningfull discussion. It's simply stated that this is the way it's gonna be insert cliche for decision and go on like you never heard any complaints.
Oh ya, and Batz, please don't regail me with anymore of your personal stats in or against a certain plane. You're a better pilot than most so your stats in a certain plane against another plane piloted by someone of unknown ability really lend nothing to the discussion.
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Originally posted by najdorf
The only setup that has a hog as an available ride is up right now, but the way it's going, the hog isn't very competitive. I find myself cheating and upping FM2's to deal with nikis because the only kind of shot I can get on them is high deflection passing shot which more often that not, even when I land rounds, I don't do any damage.
Well, I find Fm2s turn inside Nikis and that F4Us out run them but I have not flown in this setup so maybe the arena adds an anchor to the corsairs and an alt limiter to the Fm2s? I mean, if you get low and slow in F4Us or are jumped when low in an FM2 you are a dead man. As with Wildcats and Zeke 2s, do not get low and slow and endlessly turn in stupid circles--the Japs'll own ya.
I think maybe the "US iron only" guys are hating the Niki because it is the single Jap plane the "headon or nothing" boys run into on PAC sets that is a draw--if they don't break at 500 yards, that is.
Perhaps we can enable the Tempest and Spit IX for these guys to make it fair? Or the La7? Would that make it even?
Sakai
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Good post Najdorf.
I think maybe the "US iron only" guys are hating the Niki because it is the single Jap plane the "headon or nothing" boys run into on PAC sets that is a draw--if they don't break at 500 yards, that is. Try again.
Perhaps we can enable the Tempest and Spit IX for these guys to make it fair? Or the La7? Would that make it even?
You're having trouble keeping up are'nt you?
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Sakai,
Number 1, no one is yanking your chain. Number 2, why don't you take the post out of context just a little more.
Certainly any idiot knows that the hog can go faster than the N1K, you're proof of that. However, we are not trying to get confirmation that the wheel is round from such a supremely keen intelect as yours. The small and very limited point that I am making is that I do not believe that the Chog overbalances the arena and therefore would like to have it included as an equalizer in a2a combat against all the cannon carrying IJN birds. Brady and batz disagree. Further, I don't think the aforementioned pair show any flexibility on the matter and that bothers me. Now I have a lot of respect for both Batz and Brady, I simply disagree with their position on the matter and dislike the fact they are not willing to agree to any meaningful discussion of it(ie. one in which there is a possibility of a change in opinion).
None of this discussion has anything to do with you sucking up to someone and saying allied players are whining because they cant win every HO.
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Originally posted by Slash27
Good post Najdorf.
I think maybe the "US iron only" guys are hating the Niki because it is the single Jap plane the "headon or nothing" boys run into on PAC sets that is a draw--if they don't break at 500 yards, that is. Try again.
Perhaps we can enable the Tempest and Spit IX for these guys to make it fair? Or the La7? Would that make it even?
You're having trouble keeping up are'nt you?
Well, that answers the other question: The US navy-only geeks are in fact the most partisan, whiningest, biggest cry babies out there. Thanks for clearing it up.
Any Squad with a US navy call sign will throw a tantrum when any PAC setup that does not make them instant gods is released. Maybe you guys get shot down so much because its hard to fly in soiled diapers? Well, poopy-pants boy, I can't help you, call mommy.
Perhaps you Big Blue babys find it harder to fly against seasoned pilots with materially finer planes than the rising sun was capable of producing in the actual war? It seems ot me that is a real issue that we cannot address by making only Newbs fly against you fellers.
Perhaps we can simply enable tissues to every PAC setup prior to flying to keep the tears from staining their screens every time out?
Shut up and fly, weinie boy. Tell ya what, I'll fly only for the US this outting while you weeiners sulk or fly Nikis (unless doing so and being objective would make you break out in a rash?). I am the single worst US Navy iron jockey on the planet, but I will gladly do so--regardless of how many are up for what side.
Otherwise, perhaps you prancing, mincing little nerds can pony up and buy your own flight sim and can change the name to "Corsair only" and handicap it anyway you want and "it will be the bestest plane ever, ever you hear me ".
That clear it up for you any sissy boy?
Just wanted you fellers to know what it is you sound like.
oooo
xxxx
Sakai
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Sakai,
I have read the rambling **** pile you call a post twice now and I'm damned if I can find anything remotely resembling a coherent response to my own post.
Perhaps if you took a few reading comprehension courses and followed them up with a couple in logic, we could have a discussion. As it is, I guess from now on I'll just have to completely ignore your inane drivel.
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Wow Sakai, wtg, That is the dumbest reply yet in this thread.
Any Squad with a US navy call sign will throw a tantrum when any PAC setup that does not make them instant gods is released. Maybe you guys get shot down so much because its hard to fly in soiled diapers? Well, poopy-pants boy, I can't help you, call mommy.
I like this part, you have no basis but you charge right in and attack all the "evil" Navy squads and expose them for what they are. Nice work.
Perhaps you Big Blue babys find it harder to fly against seasoned pilots with materially finer planes than the rising sun was capable of producing in the actual war? It seems ot me that is a real issue that we cannot address by making only Newbs fly against you fellers.
Again more good stuff. No one has implied anything like this, but have have seen right through evil doers words and brought the true agenda to light. Outstanding.
Shut up and fly, weinie boy. Tell ya what, I'll fly only for the US this outting while you weeiners sulk or fly Nikis (unless doing so and being objective would make you break out in a rash?). I am the single worst US Navy iron jockey on the planet, but I will gladly do so--regardless of how many are up for what side.
While this stance may seem harsh to some, sometimes you have to use a strong hand against the evil ones. Your sacrifice to fly for the evil ones should be inspiring to all. ( pause to gather my composure)
Otherwise, perhaps you prancing, mincing little nerds can pony up and buy your own flight sim and can change the name to "Corsair only" and handicap it anyway you want and "it will be the bestest plane ever, ever you hear me ".
Just when i thought you may waiver in yourpost, you pull it off again. Good show old boy. Big ---* <<<>>>*--- to you sir!!
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The F4u-4 only had 9 kills in ww2, The only kills it had in WW2 were at Okinawa?
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You know the political bull**** in this game is intolerable. The CT is not setting up a historical battlefield and then taking from one side to make it easier for the other. The purpose of the CT is to relive a moment in time while being apart of a country that either is winning the war, loosing the war, or where both sides are in a dead lock. The biggest challenge for the IJN forces, in this setup, is to push back the advancing allied forces with what ever they can get their hands on.
If the planes were in theatre in RL then they should be included in the AH theatre. Brady you know no one will object to having some German planes on the IJN side, within reason.
With the abilities of the N1K to do almost as much damage to an airfield as the CHOG that makes the 'CHOGs are airfield mongers' debate a little flat.
Put the late war planes on one of the furthest fields from the fight. Give the IJN forces a few german planes to equal the numbers of plane sets.
There also needs to be a few P-38's...yeah I think I read somewhere that they saw service in the Pacific...at least a few of them.
The uber N1K needs something to keep it from HO'ing every plane it sees and that is the -C.
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Originally posted by Batz
those planes are always available in the da wtf are you talking about?
You are of no concern to me, I have killed you a bunch. My lifetime kd in your plane is higher then you anyway.
Best i can give ya cry about it all ya want...........
This isn't about the DA nor is it a noodle measuring contest, handsomehunk. It's the pudding the proof's supposedly in. If your paranoid theory over the F4U "ruining balance" in the CT could stand the light of day then you wouldn't be doing the pee-pee dance to avoid proving your point right this minute. :D
Sakai .. I take it that you too think my suggestion that the F4U-1d get a shore base or that the F4U-1d be enabled on both TF01 (alongside the F6F) and TF04 so the players who enjoy that ride have it available whenever they want is terribly unreasonable and ruins the fun for the IJ players? Gimme the "Allied whiner" song and dance. It's cute. ;)
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Originally posted by brady
"Brady, I find it totally impossible to believe that you were not aware that you could control a TF irrespective of rank"
I retract this statement after evaluating the situation in which it occured and considering another of Brady's comments.
2)The VH's are set to 5K in this set up, A fully loaded P47 has aprox. 3500 pounds in ordance alone slung under it, the equilvelent of over 3 Georges in ordance. I belave that in the incedent you describe above a Panzer was also present and had been working on the Hanger for a while, so his damage coupled with all the bombs from the Georges could of easly resulted in a Hanger that could of surcome to strafing in a short order.
The VH I watched being obliterated was not the one described above. 4 N1Ks dropped 4 500lb bombs (1 was even off target) then proceeded to strafe it into non-existence. P47s carry 4060lbs of ord not 3500lbs and that you are a CM and don't know this is disturbing since you are one of the ones responsible for determining how hardened things should be. Knowing payloads seems important therefore.
2 x 1000lb
1 x 500lb
10 x 156lb warhead rockets weighing 250lb each
3) The Allied planes are far more capable platforms for dieacking a field than the Georges are, Not only can they pack 1000 pound bombs which are much easer to hit with than 500 pounders, they also pack 6 to 10 Rockets, one rocket can kill a gun, fire a couple 3 into an ack cluster and generaly you get them all, the way the clusters are aranged they are far more sustiple to bombs and rockets than they are to strafing, in this area the alies have a clear advantage they have Better stand off weapons, the Japanese have to get in fairly close to actualy hit the guns. Personaly I have much easer time in geting my 50Cal's onto a gun and hosing them down since they have a much longer range.
OK this part drives me insane since it skips over part of my comments. Yes I can fly a P47 reasonably capable of wiping out call it 5 ack nests on Okinawa (1 for each bomb and 2 with rockets). To do this I launch 2 sectors away from the target, fly a course that does not head directly toward the target, climb to 15,000' which loaded down like this takes about 10 to 12 minutes. I then turn to the target and start my approach. At around 8 miles from the base I put my nose down and extend down to 10,000' so that I'm not going painfully slow when I arrive in the middle of the N1K swarm over the target field. I execute drop/climb/extend runs until all of my ord is depleted and if I did it all perfectly and Loki is amused with me(<-- Norse god of luck) yes 5 ack nests are destroyed. Of course what is more likely to happen is that as I ingress to target I'm met by 1 to 4 NME planes and I have to ditch my ord having wasted the last 25 minutes.
On the other hand I could grab a N1K with the uber pork cannons strap on 2 500lb bombs that almost don't effect the planes handling at all climb to 3000' - 5000' and pop 3 ack nests (1 w/each bomb and the other in a single guns pass). Total time 3 minutes. Then spin the plane on its' tail and waste a bunch of Allied planes foolish enough to attempt to exist within 5 miles of my aircraft.
As for the part about rate of fire, range, etc. All wrong or totally not relevant. Range differences, not enough to notice when your targetting a ground object. Rate of fire, so what!?! Firing a zillion spitwads a second does not equate to having a sledgehammer lobbed in your direction. While I haven't finalized a study I've been doing on the subject my gut tells me that 20 20mm rounds do way more damage than 160 .50 rounds, etc.
I tested this out today by flying a N1K and torching all but 2 AAA guns at a base in a single sortie that lasted 6 min 30 seconds from engine start to end flight. Can't do that with a P47!
4) well other than fly better...The Ki 67 has a very weak tail section, and they have very weak wing tip's, I come up underneath and fire into the fuselage from below infront of the tail this typicaly snaps them off, another good spot to aim for is the wing outboard the engine necal, they snap off prety easy to. The Ki 67's tail gun also has a much more limited covered arc than say a B26, it cant depress as much so coming in from bellow and at dead six is a good spot since they cant get you their. They also have just 12.7 mm Ho 103's in the tail which have a much shorter effective range than the 50cal in the US fighter's, the 20mm Ho-5 in the dorsal turet has a very limited covered arc and can be easly avoided by staying low and behind. Of course their are some compleatly uncovered aspects defensively on the Ki 67 as well.
OK, I find it deeply irritating that I never commented on your flying skill yet you started of by doing so about mine. The 12.7mm guns do not have a much shorter range at all and clever people able to do the math will note that they are in fact the same as .50 rounds. As for staying at the low 6 position and using the KI67s belly blindspot I'd love to if Axis pilots weren't flying them right on the deck or so low that it is impossible to get under them unless you are in a submarine. Move the KI67s to a few limited bases to stop the 90 second raids on our CVs.
5) lol
Ya I thought this part was funny too... yet you missed one of the greatest ironies.
Arlo: First off TY.
On the F4U issue, I have no intentions of changing anything in the present set up, I appricate that it is you favorate plane and that you would like to see it more readely available and I understand that you will most likely not stop campagining for it to be more readly available, I also understand that my points on why it is limited are falling on death ears in many instances, this is expected and frankely normal. I also am not at this point going to expound again as to why it is limited to just those two CV group's since it is not geting through anyway :)
Now there is serious humor in this part. Here you are saying that your points have fallen on deaf ears. Right, OK, exactly... ummmmm what about all of our points? What about the CV command problem? What about when you yanked a CV out of my control because it wasn't being used correctly when I tried to explain just what was going on? Right... deaf ears... ummmm I gotta take a break the irony is driving me nuts.
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Jebo44,
P-38s were not at Okinawa. Sorry.
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Niether were Panzers
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Yes, but the Panzers stand in for the tanks that were there. (The Japanese shouldn't have any)
What would the P-38 be standing in for?
Yeah, that's right. Nothing.
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Glad to see you here, Karnie. What you you think of having the F4Us that are already in the setup based on one of the Allied shore bases and perhaps on the large CV taskforce so the players who enjoy flying the F4U and wait for it to emerge in a late PAC setting in the CT every 3 or 4 months can fly it whenever they want to for a whole week there? :D
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What would the P-38 be standing in for?
Yeah, that's right. Nothing.
I didnt ask for them. SHouldnt matter, CT is not about historical accuracy, its about gameplay. Where the hell have you been?
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Arlo,
I don't really care. I don't see what the big deal is one way or the other. Because it doesn't matter to me and it does matter to you guys, sure have all the F4U-1s and F4U-1Ds you want.
As to guys asking for the F4U-1C and F4U-4, well, I was just in the CT and it was 30 Allies vs 16 Axis. It doesn't seem like you guys need the F4U-1C or F4U-4 in order to win as we're down to two or three airfields. If you really think you guys need that much of a handicap, well shucks, thanks for complimenting the Axis fliers.
If the F4U-1C and F4U-4 do get added they should either be free or cast about 30pp each. 4pp is just a way of saying "Look, they were controled" when they were functionally uncontroled and free.
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The F4U-C is not needed. Guys would like it because its is fun to fly (what a concept) Same with the P-38. Though it wasnt there it would probably make for better fights with th N1K. There would be less " bore-n-zoom" and less whining about Jug fliers who wont slow down and turn fight for the Georges. There is plenty of that with the Hogs as it is.
Enableing Corsairs from land bases does make sense. Even more so now that the lines have been moved farther north. Why that is such a problem for brady/Batz I dont know, but its seems reasonable.
I would like clarifcaton the F4U-4 and its service history. If it only had 9 kills the whole war, what the hell is it doing in AH?
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Wow, this doesn't seem like the CT from a year ago. Although I'm happy the numbers are starting to increase, the hostilities are also increasing proportionally.
I'm not advocating a group hug or anything, but we're all in the CT the same reason, and appreciative of the CT Staffers who give us a place to hang our hat on a regular basis. It'd be nice if we could act like it occasionally, eh wot?
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Originally posted by Karnak
As to guys asking for the F4U-1C and F4U-4, well, I was just in the CT and it was 30 Allies vs 16 Axis. It doesn't seem like you guys need the F4U-1C or F4U-4 in order to win as we're down to two or three airfields. If you really think you guys need that much of a handicap, well shucks, thanks for complimenting the Axis fliers.
Just now checked. Both sides equal at 25 players apiece. The Axis had 5 airfields ... so do the Allies. Overall field ownership is Axis: 22, Allies: 17. Fleets 1 and 3 were apparently sunk recently as they are heading back from the south pole. V17 is about to be retaken by the Axis and they have A10 under a hard assault. There's a pretty good chance that they'll recapture all of the big isle within a couple hours or so. May even be able to mount an assault on a18 .. maybe even a19. TF04 is on the east coast and, as usual .... a tad bit too close. It will sink within the hour (if it lasts that long).
So ... no need to dispair. This is your action combat news reporter, Arlo, signing off. ;)
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I have flown in this set-up maybe 3 or 4 hours, all of it Allied.
I think the Allies have a great plane set, and have the advantage. Most of the big blue fighters are untouchable if flown with Big E. The Jap planes certainly turn well, but there are enough FM-2s and B & Zers to force them to get screwed on E and get anchored.
I also think the 50's rip through the Jap planes very well, and I do most of my shooting at 500 yards...
eskimo
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eskimo,
How tremendously leathal the FM2 and F4U/F6F combo is to Japanese fighers doesn't seem to be fully realized by many of the Allied players. I can attest from the Axis side, it sucks.
You can't turn (The normal way A6M5s and N1K2s survive against faster fighters) because the FM2's will kill you and you can't BnZ (the normal way for A6M5s, Ki-61s and N1K2s to kill FM2s) because the F4Us/F6Fs will kill you if you don't turn.
Nasty, nasty, nasty.
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Originally posted by Sakai
Well, that answers the other question: The US navy-only geeks are in fact the most partisan, whiningest, biggest cry babies out there. Thanks for clearing it up.
Any Squad with a US navy call sign will throw a tantrum when any PAC setup that does not make them instant gods is released. Maybe you guys get shot down so much because its hard to fly in soiled diapers? Well, poopy-pants boy, I can't help you, call mommy.
Perhaps you Big Blue babys find it harder to fly against seasoned pilots with materially finer planes than the rising sun was capable of producing in the actual war? It seems ot me that is a real issue that we cannot address by making only Newbs fly against you fellers.
Sakai
Sakai,
I edited out your post simply because I didn't want to comment on the entire thing as it would take me all night and I just don't have the time to deal with other children aside from the ones I have in my home.
Now I take offense that you want to generalize all of us "Big Blue babys" into one category. Some of my guys have gotten a little upset with the PAC planesets and have openly complained about and appear to have gotten themselves openly censored for it. If Brady has it out for Arlo then so be it. I respect both and support both guys position. I personally don't believe that allowing the Corsairs to be openly available will unbalance the arena but as I said I support them both. Call me what you will but it is far from being a "Big Blue baby" and a damn sight far away from throwing a tantrum about an aircraft. So lets keep this on the personal level between you, Najdorf, Arlo and whoever else wants to jump in. Because I am not going to generalize you as a b******g IJ squadron guy (apparently due to your UBB id) but don't lump us all together.
Now on another note I can't wait to find you hanging out in a Niki or whatever you like. I will take my slow turning Corsair and do my best to wipe your shadow making tail out of the AH sky. As I would try to do with Batz/Wotan/what ever his nick was last time he left but I am not going to go down that road. ;) I don't "duel" any longer either so don't try that route with me either. Time just isn't a thing I have an abundance of any longer.
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umm just got home and cant be bothered to wade through most of the bs,
naj the arguement for the exclusion of the chog has been consistant and has been discussed many many times. Its impact on gameplay is real. If included the milkrunners will run wild.
Tardlo,
I dunno what your are going on about, I have nothing to do with the ct and have no more "impact" then yourself, I have no doudt that I can kill you in your plane. But either way how is it you think it matters one way or another to this ct setup or that anyone else cares?
It's the pudding the proof's supposedly in. If your paranoid theory over the F4U "ruining balance" in the CT could stand the light of day then you wouldn't be doing the pee-pee dance to avoid proving your point right this minute.
A "dual" is totally differnt then arena play and has no relation to balance or even how good one plane may be in regards to another. Just like having the f4u-4 and the chog in the Okinawa scenario has no bearing on arena play or this setup.
Slash read what I wrote,
I said I didnt care one way or another where f4us are but its not fair or unfair as the cv spawn areas are not much further away then a19, where arlo requested them to be. It just doesnt matter as long as the admirals dont get the cv sunk.
You navy/marine types are a dime a dozen in Ah and will always complain about something. Why you think your whines will change bradys setup is beyond me. After years of whining why not go after the other ct cms for a "solution"?
The ground vehicles on okinawa are their to represent the various dug in guns and defensive positions the japanese had set up. The US lost almost all it tanks on okinawa. Theres no ground cover in ah, theres no real ground war. All ground vehicles are spotted easily, killed easily etc. So complaining about them is nothing but a whine.
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Originally posted by Batz
ground vehicles on okinawa are their to represent the various dug in guns and defensive positions the japanese had set up. The US lost almost all it tanks on okinawa.
That is a good point. I hadn't really considered that.
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Slash27,
Can't really find a breakdown on the different reports of kills by aircraft types in the F4U series but overall the F4U claim 2,140 enemy aircraft shot down while flying roughly 64,000 sorties. But they did drop more tonnage on the enemy than the F6F. While the F6F only flew roughly 65,000 sorties but claim 5,156 enemy aircraft shot down while in service.
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Here is another link you might want to search through Slash. Not sure if it gives the breakdown by specific type but it covers losses as well as claims for USN and USMC during WW2.
http://www.history.navy.mil/download/nasc.pdf
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Originally posted by Batz
I dunno
You should have stopped there. That' pretty much covers it. ;)
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I would like clarifcaton the F4U-4 and its service history. If it only had 9 kills the whole war, what the hell is it doing in AH?
I believe AHT has the f4u-4 break down. Some one check it.....
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Originally posted by Karnak
You can't turn (The normal way A6M5s and N1K2s survive against faster fighters) because the FM2's will kill you
I out-turned two FM2s in a N1K2J last night. ;) :D
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Originally posted by Batz
I believe AHT has the f4u-4 break down. Some one check it.....
So far Batz I have only been able to locate information concerning the F4U as an aircraft type. I have not located any information breaking it down by variant. I am going to the The National Museum of Naval Aviation later this fall and will see what I can dig up while there.
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I know brady has it as he posted page number etc during the scenario discusions. Maybe he will repost it.
Originally the oob in the scenario had 2 groups of f4u-4. We argued these were over represented and Aub was going to remove them altogether and replace them with 2 groups of chogs. We ended up agreeing on 1 group of each.
I am sure F4udoa or widewing has it.
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Karnak,
Actually I believe you might not be correct about the P-38's at Oki. Maybe not in the actual assault on Okinawa, which is a big maybe...still looking for some credible info on that. But I know that P-38's were used as bomber and recon escorts all during the island hoping campaign, including missions to Okinawa. The reason I am debating is because Major General Hal Gray Jr. was assigned to the 475th Fighter Group and flew P-38's from New Guinea, the Philippines, and Okinawa until the end of hostilities with Japan.
And the CT maybe just about gameplay for you Slash but it isn't for me. I generally only participate in the PAC maps. I am there for the historical aspect of it. Japanese against Americans you know like it actually was. So I would venture to say that the CT is by far geared more for the historical aspect and not so much for the game play. If that was the case then we might as well all stay in the MA.
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Jebo44,
That may be. My only info about the P-38 and Okinawa was from another poster in this forum. IIRC it came up last time Okinawa was run.
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I'll let you know what I find out. Emailed a fella that volunteers at an Army Air Corps museum. So maybe he can give us the details.
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So complaining about them is nothing but a whine.
Wasnt a complaint.
And the CT maybe just about gameplay for you Slash but it isn't for me.
I was being sarcastic. I fly here more for a historical matchup more than anything else.
Thanks for the link Reschke, will check it out.
You navy/marine types are a dime a dozen in Ah and will always complain about something. Why you think your whines will change bradys setup is beyond me. After years of whining why not go after the other ct cms for a "solution"?
You start in with your "STFU whiner" crap no matter what is posted. Its no wonder these threads turn into a ***** fest. Why dont you try and relax a bit. Brady is a big boy:D
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Originally posted by Karnak
eskimo,
How tremendously leathal the FM2 and F4U/F6F combo is to Japanese fighers doesn't seem to be fully realized by many of the Allied players. I can attest from the Axis side, it sucks.
You can't turn (The normal way A6M5s and N1K2s survive against faster fighters) because the FM2's will kill you and you can't BnZ (the normal way for A6M5s, Ki-61s and N1K2s to kill FM2s) because the F4Us/F6Fs will kill you if you don't turn.
Nasty, nasty, nasty.
That's the point there. I upped a jug and an FM2 both and had nary a problem. Either ride gives you certain capabilities that you may exploit against the Rising Sun and in tandem with the Cat or Corsair, the FM2 is a sure killer.
I understand that these guys want their rides, but no one gets everything they want in a CT setup and so far I'd say this one appears to have plenty of balance. If any side has an advantage, I'd say it is the us what with their superior ordinance loadouts and the hardness of acks.
Sakai
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Originally posted by Jebo44
There also needs to be a few P-38's...yeah I think I read somewhere that they saw service in the Pacific...at least a few of them.
It would be great to see the P-38 as a ride option in the Pacific from time to time wouldn't it? We have so many F4s, 109s, 190s and Spits, can't we have a couple 38s to use?
One can dream.
Sakai
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Originally posted by Reschke
Sakai,
Now I take offense that you want to generalize all of us "Big Blue babys" into one category.
Now on another note I can't wait to find you hanging out in a Niki or whatever you like. I will take my slow turning Corsair and do my best to wipe your shadow making tail out of the AH sky. As I would try to do with Batz/Wotan/what ever his nick was last time he left but I am not going to go down that road. ;) I don't "duel" any longer either so don't try that route with me either. Time just isn't a thing I have an abundance of any longer.
I did see you saying I was a Niki jockey, you clearly do not know me well.
I understand some simply "want" the C-Hog. But insisting that if our "wants" are not met the world is somehow unfair and arbitrary is tyrant-child behavior.
I have never dueled, except like this and you all have lost badly here so . . .
I suggest that if "your guys" don't want to be flamed they should not spend all their time in incessant whining about the same stupid subject. Come on, lighten up and fly.
As noted, I'll fly Blue all week to see how put out they are. So far I'd say I would rather be in Big Blue than White Chrysanthemum. How many more advantages do we need?
My real comments, that no one wants to discuss on seeing as they are so busy knee jerking into little screams and spasms (thanks for proving my point) is that:
1) The materiel difference and the qualitative and quantitative differences in the airwar (numbers of available trained pilots and sheer numbers of aircraft) are not modeled into this game or these setups. Thus, when the Japanese side is competitive against the F4 people worry about historical issues that cannot be built into a setup. E.g., no newbs to fly in Niks of inferior build-out.
2) Last time the big Blue tears were rolling down the cheeks and "your guys" were competing for "nancy boys of the Universe" titles, I suggested that we build an Island Hopping Map that emphasized taking Islands that are heavily fortified and put in lots of boats, all Allied Aircraft asked for (excepting the English planes) and let the Navy have it's day against shipping and Island targets and the sons of Nippon.
I still think that's a swell idea, but I don't see the Big Blue association of milquetoaster poopy pants boys jumping in with both feet and asking for/volunteering to help build same. Perhaps it is being built in secret?
So, to prove once and for all that you plucky fellows are simply whiners and will never be happy, I am offering what little time I have--and I doubt you have less--to assist in the building of an Island Hopping map, a simple one that utilizes some terrains we have already, anything I can do to help build a map that allows all US Iron to be employed in the Pacific so the Navy boys can have their day in the sun, I will do whatever I can. You can all sit back and whine while I try to do it, but I must say: I have zero experience on this and will need tons of help. In fact, I could never be the lead on this project but I will devote precious flying time to same if we want to do this, as a community. Lots of Islands, lots of stuff to blast and bomb, maybe a few large Jap bases representing Rabaul, etc. I would only ask that we build this out and have representative planes of their classes without having only one type predominate. That is, limited availability of say Nikis and C-hogs to a few bases/ships. I would even suggest we leave the Chog and Niki out till the last day or two, kind of a mini rolling planeset. I don't find the P-38 to be too much plane for the Japanese--few in the game know how to fly one. Those that do are scary . . . but when I see them in a Jap ride I reckon I kill as often or more as be killed by one. Or heck, have it be Navy/Marines only with maybe a few 38-eligible bases.
But really, you and your guys do whine too much, if they have been criticized for it in the past as you indicate, perhaps there is a reason for it? The thin skin you guys show off when any one says anything about a US plane shows your biases up quite plainly. They are just planes, it is only a game. Lighten up, the whole point of my posts on this subject is to get you fellows to examine your complaints a bit and lighten up just a tad OK? If I go over the top, well, that's the way you all come off.
I appreciate your coming in to side with your mates, it's obvious your squad is tight and that is a good thing, but taking it to the point of detriment of the entire community because you all, like petulant, tyrant children, simply have to have your way is obscene.
Really, you fellows should know I go over the top simply because it is a reflection of your posts, I know you'll knee jerk back like y'all did, and y'alls whining is becoming quite inane. Might just fly for a few weeks and screw the worrying about what the setup is, ehhh? I find it to be far more enjoyable that way. Or you guys could drop your membership until the game reflects what you want, or as noted, build your own flight sim. But trying to constantly hijack every outing for the sake of a few guys who petulantly insist they can never be wrong . . . . it gets tiresome.
Oh, I fly for no side, usually the less numbered side, but as noted, I'll be in Blue all week, regardless of numbers, just because.
Yours,
Sakai (out)
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Originally posted by Karnak
Yes, but the Panzers stand in for the tanks that were there. (The Japanese shouldn't have any)
What would the P-38 be standing in for?
Yeah, that's right. Nothing.
Panzers suck in this setup in my opinion only. Here's a suggestion, drop the Ostwind and Panzer from the setup. The M-8/M-16/M-3 are plenty, all the work here is done by Planes anyways. Little ground is taken, drop the Panzers--armored cars can give teh GV junkies their fix when needed and an M-8 can track and kill an M-16 and is not too much for teh M-16 to handle (hint: balance).
We don't have the P-38 featured much do we?
How about a Nice Italian/Med campaign featuring the P-38/P-47 D-11&D-25 against the Luftwaffe/Italian rides? Say, SpitV for the US Units that had those as well? P-40Es? No MkIXs? Tell eveyrone up front it is expressly to feature those rides so they won't whine about what's missing?
Sakai
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Sakai,
You just don't seem to get it. Our squad flies F4u's. The corsairs are relegated to 2 CV's, neither of which were close to the fight that was occuring around A24. Also, in just comparing -1's and D's to the IJN aircraft, there is a firepower disparity that could easily be remedied by adding the Chog. Now, nowhere is it stated by any allied flier that this setup without changing either one of these conditions makes it totally unfair. And at no time do we state, "therefore we refuse to participate."
You seem to think that anytime someone says I would like to have such and such allied ride included in a setup, that the person is whining because they don't get an advantage. Clearly, even as stated by Batz, the Chog does not give the allies any unbalancing advantage in a2a combat. Neither would it give the allies an unfair advantage to have hogs available from ground bases. We simply stated that, because those are our squadron rides and because they were historically present and would not be unbalancing in our opinion, we would like them included and more readily available.
I have never stated that this setup is unfair to the allies as it is. These are merely personal preferences I and several others would like to see implemented.
So, to be clear, what we are asking for are two things.
1. The first is that the hogs available in the game right now, be made available at land bases. This is simply to keep us from having to fly through 3 empty sectors to get to some action. I defy anyone to make a coherent and reasonable argument that this unbalances the arena.
2. The other is that the Chog be made available to even the firepower edge of the N1K's specifically, and the Ki61's and Zekes have to a lesser extent over the 6 .50cals. Again, the performance of the Chog is no better than that of the D and less than that of the -1. It simply has cannons instead of .50 cals. No one thinks this unbalances the a2a combat. The argument, as I understand it from Batz, is that the ability to hit ground targets in the Chog would unbalance it by giving allies a big edge in destroying ack. This may or may not be true. However, I'm not interested in it for that purpose.
Now, if these changes are not made, which it seems quite likely they won't be, I'm not going to throw up my hands and say, "that's it, I quit because this is unfair." So tell me how it is that we are crying "big blue tears" because we are not getting our way.
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Originally posted by Sakai
I did see you saying I was a Niki jockey, you clearly do not know me well.
I understand some simply "want" the C-Hog. But insisting that if our "wants" are not met the world is somehow unfair and arbitrary is tyrant-child behavior.
I have never dueled, except like this and you all have lost badly here so . . .
I suggest that if "your guys" don't want to be flamed they should not spend all their time in incessant whining about the same stupid subject. Come on, lighten up and fly.
If you mean by me saying "Now on another note I can't wait to find you hanging out in a Niki or whatever you like." then that was all implied by your BB ID and nothing more.
Originally posted by Sakai
My real comments, that no one wants to discuss on seeing as they are so busy knee jerking into little screams and spasms (thanks for proving my point) is that:
1) The materiel difference and the qualitative and quantitative differences in the airwar (numbers of available trained pilots and sheer numbers of aircraft) are not modeled into this game or these setups. Thus, when the Japanese side is competitive against the F4 people worry about historical issues that cannot be built into a setup. E.g., no newbs to fly in Niks of inferior build-out.
I didn't think I had a knee jerk reaction to your comments. To put it simply I wanted you to let you know that some of us in USN based squadrons can see both sides of the issue at hand and respect both sides of the argument.
Originally posted by Sakai
2) Last time the big Blue tears were rolling down the cheeks and "your guys" were competing for "nancy boys of the Universe" titles, I suggested that we build an Island Hopping Map that emphasized taking Islands that are heavily fortified and put in lots of boats, all Allied Aircraft asked for (excepting the English planes) and let the Navy have it's day against shipping and Island targets and the sons of Nippon.
I still think that's a swell idea, but I don't see the Big Blue association of milquetoaster poopy pants boys jumping in with both feet and asking for/volunteering to help build same. Perhaps it is being built in secret?
So, to prove once and for all that you plucky fellows are simply whiners and will never be happy, I am offering what little time I have--and I doubt you have less--to assist in the building of an Island Hopping map, a simple one that utilizes some terrains we have already, anything I can do to help build a map that allows all US Iron to be employed in the Pacific so the Navy boys can have their day in the sun, I will do whatever I can. You can all sit back and whine while I try to do it, but I must say: I have zero experience on this and will need tons of help. In fact, I could never be the lead on this project but I will devote precious flying time to same if we want to do this, as a community. Lots of Islands, lots of stuff to blast and bomb, maybe a few large Jap bases representing Rabaul, etc. I would only ask that we build this out and have representative planes of their classes without having only one type predominate. That is, limited availability of say Nikis and C-hogs to a few bases/ships. I would even suggest we leave the Chog and Niki out till the last day or two, kind of a mini rolling planeset. I don't find the P-38 to be too much plane for the Japanese--few in the game know how to fly one. Those that do are scary . . . but when I see them in a Jap ride I reckon I kill as often or more as be killed by one. Or heck, have it be Navy/Marines only with maybe a few 38-eligible bases.
I personally have never seen this proposed and would LOVE to see it happen. What sort of help would like to get from my 5-10 hours of free time in the week? :) Seriously if you need some help let me know because I would absolutely love to have a chance to recreate the island hopping and such in a series of maps if it was possible. I know its not possible to have over a 512x512 map right now but who knows what the future holds other than hitech. Personally I would like to have a setup with New Georgia and the surrounding area (Rabaul, etc...) represented in a map. Rolling planeset in the arena to represent different years and introduce them each day...sounds like a winner to me. Even if it does go back to the old AW and WB days of past glory.
Originally posted by Sakai
But really, you and your guys do whine too much, if they have been criticized for it in the past as you indicate, perhaps there is a reason for it? The thin skin you guys show off when any one says anything about a US plane shows your biases up quite plainly. They are just planes, it is only a game. Lighten up, the whole point of my posts on this subject is to get you fellows to examine your complaints a bit and lighten up just a tad OK? If I go over the top, well, that's the way you all come off.
I appreciate your coming in to side with your mates, it's obvious your squad is tight and that is a good thing, but taking it to the point of detriment of the entire community because you all, like petulant, tyrant children, simply have to have your way is obscene.
Again I really do not get how you thought my post was me whining about a setup and that may be because I was looking at both sides of the issue and did read the entire thread before making my post. I do defend my guys but I will also defend the CT Staff since they do have the time to devote to making these setups happen. If they are skewed then its ok we are all human and mistakes happen.
Originally posted by Sakai
Really, you fellows should know I go over the top simply because it is a reflection of your posts, I know you'll knee jerk back like y'all did, and y'alls whining is becoming quite inane. Might just fly for a few weeks and screw the worrying about what the setup is, ehhh? I find it to be far more enjoyable that way. Or you guys could drop your membership until the game reflects what you want, or as noted, build your own flight sim. But trying to constantly hijack every outing for the sake of a few guys who petulantly insist they can never be wrong . . . . it gets tiresome.
Oh, I fly for no side, usually the less numbered side, but as noted, I'll be in Blue all week, regardless of numbers, just because.
Yours,
Sakai (out)
Dropping out of a game till the game reflects what we want does absolutely nothing for the game or someones desires. I wouldn't give it a first thought for that reason there. There is not a game out right now that remotely has what I am looking for in the game itself.
Lastly Sakai. I am looking forward to flying for a few hours this month. Hopefully I will be able to break the 10 hour mark for the tour this coming week. I don't remember how long its been since I flew more than 5 hours in a tour.
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Originally posted by najdorf
Sakai,
You just don't seem to get it.
Yes, I do Najdorf and thank you for enunciating your position again, though I think you and I are at crossed positions and I am not really interested in the Corsair thing much if any at all.
I don't have a problem with Corsairs, anywhere of any type, I have a problem with the incessant whining from certain groups that don't get their way. I don't think Land Based Corsairs is too much to ask at all. But the way you guys go off about it . . .
The C Hog as an overbalance issue I simply don't care one way or the other (I tend to think Brady has more reason on his side than you or Arlo do becaus he has for me backed it up with data), but there are certain groups of plane lovers that go absolutely berserk about their pet rides. I am picking on you guys because you go so absolutely overboard that it is easy to do so. Try making yourselves smaller targets if you don't wish for people to flame you.
Brady has adequately addressed the firepower issue, I know you guys don't believe him, but then my whole point is you fellows do not come off as being reasonable. My personal advice is do not get into close quarters low turning combats with Nikis, hit and run them. Hey, flying FM2s against La5s and Hurri IICs can be disastrous too, but I do it and sometimes land many kills. There is an enormous qualitative difference between Japanese and Russian or US/English cannon--enormous. To my personal thinking, there is no place for the CHog outside the MA because the quintessential Marine CT ride for me will always be the 6 .50 loadout. Since I routinely bag jap planes with 4 .50s, 6 seems plenty to me. If offered the 4C, I would only fly it in ground attack (and I think at Okinawa the 4C earned the praise of Marines it supported thus no?). But that's just me.
What some of us seem to be trying to point out is that no matter how badly infatuated with one plane one group might be, they are still a subset of a larger community bound by some constraints. Said constraints might not always work in favor of a persons pet ride.
Now, as I noted, there are Spit IX whiners too--guys who whine for and against. It's just that these single specialized requests are so narrow in their focus, that maybe they don't get a hearing because to an outside objective observer (I don't care what I fly and have no attachment to the CT staffers--ask Brady I am always ragging him about that stupid He177) it looks like whining. After awhile you guys will be dismissed as being one-trick ponys. If no one reads your stuff anymore, best to find a new way to make yourself heard, you see my point?
Hence my idea to build a Marines map, Island Hopping, one that features Corsairs. Corsairs and SBDS/TBMs/A-20s/B-26s against Nippon. I think that would be great fun. Lots of small Islands for Marines to attack and land their amtraks on, capturing island after Island. And it would be the perfect place to showcase the Corsair. All the Corsairs. All the pretty, pretty corsairs.
But, when we have balanced, good sets running, why all the carping about "our squad has to have the specialized ride it demands"?
Hey I support your requests too, but I am saying that when Arlo starts on a jag and Slash starts in and you guys all start jumpig up and down . . . .it looks like cryin' time to me. That's just one man's opinion, you are free to piss on me.
Hey, I love the P-40 and the Jug. I am fond of the Zeke as well and I think the D3a gets screwed in its handling modeling. But you know I always end up in a 109 or 190A5 someplace so guys like you can fly squad nights and whine that no one does anything for them.
You know what I mean?
Sakai
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Originally posted by Reschke
I personally have never seen this proposed and would LOVE to see it happen. What sort of help would like to get from my 5-10 hours of free time in the week? :) Seriously if you need some help let me know because I would absolutely love to have a chance to recreate the island hopping and such in a series of maps if it was possible. I know its not possible to have over a 512x512 map right now but who knows what the future holds other than hitech. Personally I would like to have a setup with New Georgia and the surrounding area (Rabaul, etc...) represented in a map. Rolling planeset in the arena to represent different years and introduce them each day...sounds like a winner to me. Even if it does go back to the old AW and WB days of past glory.
Well, you got my point and obviously you see past my sarcasm and silliness, salue to you sir.
Let's do it, let's ask the CT to consider a nice Island hopping map that featureds the Corsair. It was a highly useful plane that the Marines made famous, shouldn't we acknowledge that in a setup? There are tons of guys who fly Big Blue in the MA who would check that out as well.
Help? Well, I am simply saying that rather than complain myself I propose we do something about the lack of Corsair Setups and make one. So where do we start? Begging for help most likely, let's start the pleas and see what comes of it.
We need some help, and perhaps you and I can assist in details to be included in a map?
If we need to learn the Terrain Editor, well then that's what we need to do. Perhaps there are existing maps that could be used as fodder to make it go faster rather than recreating the wheel? I envision many close together small islands. A couple-few or single bases each. Lots of ack to defeat and plenty shore batteries and a VH or two. No panzers for the Japanese, only M8s.
Oh yeah baby, Island Hopping!
Sakai
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Sakai,
You're doing a little better but you are still reporting the facts inacurately. I have never "carped" 'I demand this ride for my squad.'
Your statement to that effect tells me two things:
1st- You completely trivialize our request and desire to have F4U's available to fly in their historical enviroment. It may mean nothing to you but consider this: Of the many CT setups currently in que, this is the only one that has the F4U available. IJN are in the same bind. This is the only setup that includes the N1K, but I digress. The point being, we are limited to this one setup and we can't even get our rides with general availability. We will have to wade through 15 more Euro based sets before we even rotate back to the F4f vs. A6M2 setup. I understand that means little to you since the only thing you are concerned with is general balance in the setup. But take a moment to try and understand our position and therefore our frustration.
Which takes me to point 2. We are somewhat frustrated. But, you inacurately portray that frustration as being caused by an unreasonable desire to have access to planes that will unbalance the arena. Our frustration is due to the fact that our requests are not given due consideration. Brady states unequivically that he's not going to change the setup no matter what. Now that bothers me. You would think that we could at least experiment for a few days with some changes and see how it goes. We are simply told, I tried that years ago and thought it was a failure. Well, we are asking for a recall on that decision. We are not demanding it, we are not going to a corner to pout if we don't get it, we are trying to DISCUSS it.
So when you jump into the middle of this thread and right off the bat go into "Shut up ya whinning crybabies," without any consideration of the actual issues and competing interests in play. I think you can see how we might be less than receptive to anything you might have to say about the issue.
What your posts in this thread have done would be similar if I took your request for P-38's and said, "ONce again we have to listen to that snivelling crybaby Sakai asking to have the P-38 added to an arena that would clearly unbalance it. Why doesn't this guy just dry up with all his Lightning tears and shut up and fly what's available."
Now that statement would be an unfair response to your request and one that takes it out of context in that it completely changes the nature and tone of the request. And that is exactly what you have done in response to our request for changes to this arena.
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Originally posted by najdorf
Sakai,
You're doing a little better but you are still reporting the facts inacurately. I have never "carped" 'I demand this ride for my squad.'
Maybe I am not tallking to just you kind sir. Tracking the several points you see, the response is somewhat broader than just ot you, sorry for any confusion.
Now get on the Island Hopping bus.
Sakai
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Sakai,
You will find my reply in your other post. They may move us to the TE forum but that is alright with me as well. I have some unit information and approximate locations in a notebook I wrote alot of useless knowledge in once upon a time. Now it seems I have to locate that book.
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Originally posted by najdorf
the plane I feared the least in this setup was a Corsair.
Agreed.
- oldman (who, because he generally ends up flying for the Emperor, would appreciate it if more Corsairs were enabled)
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Originally posted by Sakai
Yes, I do Najdorf and thank you for enunciating your position again, though I think you and I are at crossed positions and I am not really interested in the Corsair thing much if any at all.
I don't have a problem with Corsairs, anywhere of any type, I have a problem with the incessant whining from certain groups that don't get their way. I don't think Land Based Corsairs is too much to ask at all. But the way you guys go off about it . . .
Apparently results in you going off about it right back .... and with no real concern for the issues being brought up, it seems (by your own admission).
Now .... Sakai ... old buddy ... if you really want to look at things from the pov of a Hog fan in AH then you really need to hop off the Batz-Brady "HiTech hates the Axis/the game's unfair to us/We were branded as Luftwhiners from day one so we're gonna play 'I know you are but what am I?' and pee our diapers everytime anyone mentions fixing our personal sandbox (the CT)" club wagon.
Ahem ... I mean to say ... look at it this way:
There are a lot of players in AH that are fans of both the F4U and historical settings. The CT offers some potential for them to get a regular fix except for the following:
1: A late PAC map comes around once in a blue moon.
2: ANY Pac map run by Brady will either have no F4Us available or if it does, he feels the need to incorporate limits and restrictions that makes it possible for the Axis players to knock the F4U out of the lineup (ala "Spitfactory") or situated somewhere in south bumfugville so the players who want to ride that ride have to put up with all sorts of hassles to get their ride into a fight. This appears to be based on some bizarre theory that any and all models of the F4U outclass any and all IJ aircraft (although lately there seems to be a variation of this theme that suggests that the C-Hog would destroy anything in it's path on the ground as well .... unlike the N1K). This theory spans back to Batz's time at the CT helm and his presense in these discussions often reveals the amount of influence he still has with this particular issue.
3: This isn't the first time. Everytime Brady runs a late PAC setup, he does this. If late PAC setups were available more often (even with Brady running an occasional one), it wouldn't be more than an occasional nuisance ... but we're probably not gonna see another late PAC rotate in for a couple or three months (hopefully run by someone other than Brady).
4: If Brady would just once set aside his supposed "fear that the F4U would imbalance the CT" and stop imposing ridiculous restrictions on the use of that plane, he'd probably see, for once, his stated mission of "providing a fun for all, balanced arena" fulfilled and there would be fewer threads of this sort. Hell, based on his and Batz's argument of what makes the F4U the evil threat to balance, they should have the P-47 only available off of a tugboat in Burmuda. :D
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Well to Brady and all the other CT CM's I mean no disrespect but maybe it is time HT pull CT setups in house. There are some major issues and allegations of favoritism and such. Maybe we should request that someone from HT give final approval before a setup hits the server. Maybe then all will be able to at least say HT had final word on this setup and hopefully all viewpoints and requests were taken seriously.
The sad thing about this is there is a solution that can meet all parties desires. But no one is willing to listen.
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Come on tardlo I dont think I ever said anything close to
"since you call us lwhiners we will take over the ct and **** with hog lovers so we can get a little payback"
Brady never really flew lw planes. He was a niki / 205 dweed in the main.
The problem with a plane like the chog isnt the "plane" its the guys who fly it. Its the same reason ite perked in the main.
I have no say on anything about the ct. I make a few posts is about it. You arent going back to the "pik as" conspiracy again are you?
Brady and I dont agree on some of the most important issues related to the ct. Field capture and milkrunning. If I were still a cm or had any influence I'd get rid of it.
That effects the fun factor more then any f4u. It just happens the f4us are used most in the milkrun role.
Aint there 6 ct cms? why not email harass stalk them for your "perfect" set up?
Why didnt ya volunteer when there were ct cm openings?
If anyone doudted what Sakai meant in his post read Jebos last reply......
lol butch up lil' farm boy it only runs for a week.
Typical blu boy whine. Then he tries to bully brady into complying with his idea of balance. I am telling my mommy on you ......
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Originally posted by Jebo44
Well to Brady and all the other CT CM's I mean no disrespect but maybe it is time HT pull CT setups in house. There are some major issues and allegations of favoritism and such. Maybe we should request that someone from HT give final approval before a setup hits the server. Maybe then all will be able to at least say HT had final word on this setup and hopefully all viewpoints and requests were taken seriously.
While I understand that you put this out in a good faith attempt to improve things, Jebo, I think that this idea is a bad one.
A really bad one.
Push the CT into HTC and you will get vanilla MA coming out the other end. Don't want to offend the customers, right? Don't want to tell people what they can or can't do, since they all spend the same $15/month, right? It will be the end of the CT as we know it. I suggest that we should all be happy to live with one week's setup that we might not particularly enjoy, in order to have the benefit of the other three weeks each month that have great setups because of the raw and largely unhindered talent being put into the effort by the CT honchos.
- oldman
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Had a big spill here but it is pointless to try and debate this issue. When I get tired of it I'll cancel my account. Simplest way to fix it I guess.
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Batz, please stop refering to Arlo as Tardlo. I don't think it adds anything to the discussion and it's really starting to get on my nerves. Arlo's opions may be offensive to you, but perhaps you should limit your replies to the issues at hand.
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Originally posted by Slash27
The F4u-4 only had 9 kills in ww2, The only kills it had in WW2 were at Okinawa?
Well, I might be right or wrong, I believe F4U-4 went to war for like 30-day before war was ending. :confused:
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No you are saying
"brady wont give me what I want so i will make him by crying to Ht"
You idea of what this set up isnt a majority view. There is lotsa guys on both sides that fly it and have fun. Because you joined 4 or 5 vocal guys in this thread doesnt mean theres a problem.
You want a selective "historical" set up based on your own misconceptions. When brady doesnt bend to you he is biased unfair and must be stopped. You cant have a "historical" set up when 1 side doesnt have its "historical" plane set. you cant have a "historical" setup when one side must fly under a "historical" mis match (ie no turkey shoot or pearl harbor). Those just arent fun. In an open arena each side needs to have the ability to fight back. Each side needs to be "balanced" so 1 side isnt "behind the eight ball. So gameplay considerations are more important then "historical" balance. Players arent in the AH military" they dont have to fly stuff that sucks. If you cant have fun in this setup then theres always the next one.
Theres only 16 bases on okinawa, theres only 7 airbases, (including ie shima). With out proper control of certain planes, those that have the ability to impact gameplay disproportionately, it would be a onsided (in terms of numbers) set up.
The hogs arent limited because "they are too good of a fighter", not any umm. The fm2 and f6f are far better fighters. Its because of their ground busting capability. In an open arena you cant allow 1 side an unstoppable advantage in fighter bomber role or gameplay suffers from a direct result of base porkage.
Base porkage is the very thing lotsa guy are complaining about in regards to the main. Its real and it has an impact. Milkrunning in the ct is real, gangbanging is real.
So you make all sorts of assumptions as if you know what you are talking about. Folks like brady, karnak, hazed, kweassa and I remember those early crappy pac set ups. As well as many orthers. They were terrible. Not for the allied side because they had everything they wanted but lotsa guys just gave up on the ct because of it. So dont cry to me about how unfair it is.
The ct is the combat arena. It been pushed to far away from the a2a aspect as is. Get rid of base porking, field capture and the other silly strat crap and you can have any plane set you want. With that stuff gone 3 tards during off hours arent going to capture all the airbases. Get rid of that and we dont have to worry about gvs or fuel being porked or all the hangers being killed by suicide jabos.
The niki isnt some super plane. Its cannon certainly arent unbalancing.
Now some guys want the hogs at a few of the land bases. I have np with that. But I dont agree its "unfair" if they arent. It just doesnt matter.
When this setup first was run brady just had jugs at the land bases. He asked me what I thought and he suggested he might put the fm2 there. He did. He talked about the putting hogs at them. It was mentioned if that happened the milkrunners would have out the way bases to operate from and they would noe every undefended base they could get to.
Your idea of "balance" takes no consideration of the other sides concerns.
But feel free to whine up the chain of command.
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najdorf tardlo started the name game a while back, its more of a humor thing then directing an insult.
Besides much like your opinion about the necessity of the chog, I dont pretend to care much about your feelings :D
I am sure he can handle himself. Even in this thread "tardlo" didnt come out unitl he started on his "handsomehunkes".
Right Tardlo :p
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Originally posted by Batz
Typical blu boy whine. Then he tries to bully brady into complying with his idea of balance. I am telling my mommy on you ......
Touched that nerve again, did I? :D
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Originally posted by Batz
You idea of what this set up isnt a majority view.
Your idea of "balance" takes no consideration of the other sides concerns.
You wouldn't know what "majority view" or "balanced" actually meant if either of `em kicked you in your canyass or your nadless crotch three times a day and left you an eight-by-ten color glossy photograph of the assault with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against them. :D
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Dang just when najdorf thinks you need help you come out swinging.... Never count a tardlo out Naj........
:p
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Neh ... more like thumping a droog wanna-be on it's forehead with my finger repeatedly. I flex ... you reflex. Ain't nuthin' but a thang really. ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
Neh ... more like thumping a droog wanna-be on it's forehead with my finger repeatedly. I flex ... you reflex. Ain't nuthin' but a thang really. ;)
OK boys, time to be productive and start tinkering with the TE to see what we are all capable of so we can start comntributing positive vibes only.
That includes contrary Texans infatuated with Brisket sir Arlo.
TE, Skins, etc. I cannot do skins, do not have proggies for it. But I will scan in some from my RA book that are outstanding.
Sakai
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Well .... can't do terrains here unless I can finally figure out why my machine and the terrain proggy hate each other's guts. But I might can do skins since I have PSP7 (and a little experience doing that in AW) if some of the experienced AH skinners wouldn't mind steering me in the right direction. :D
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And what misconceptions do you speak of? I have made only one refernece to the history of the island hopping campaign. And the P-38 was there.
Because of your nature to berate others that offer an opinion or make a request, I find it difficult to take your word as the gospel. There are certain things that I and others would like to see changed about the CT. Oldman had a much better approach to what he tried to tell me and it made me think about what he said. I still think a player moderated CT is a bad way of doing this. But I think he is right that HT will most likely pull the plug on it if they get enough complaints, instead of trying to make changes.
I am not saying the CM's or the map designers or the skinners haven't put in extremeley hard work. They have done a great job. But I find something I would like to see changed, as a paying customer and member of this community, and you immediately try to cut me off. You automatically start chiming in about blueboy whines which destroys your credability. You know you are correct, nothing will ever change in this community and I will no longer give you a soap box to stand on. You want the CT to be exactly what you want. No one else has the right to ask for change. All hail Batz the pocket CT dictator.
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arlo what happens with the te? does it crash right away or what?
You may search the te forum for an answer. It most likely something simple.
Jebo whatever......
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Originally posted by Batz
arlo what happens with the te? does it crash right away or what?
You may search the te forum for an answer. It most likely something simple.
Jebo whatever......
Not right away but it runs really slow (slow enough to appear to be locked up at times) and when I select a terrain type it crashes. I suspect either a problem with my vid chip using my 256 ram stick as shared vid memory (though you'd think if it runs AH ok, that it'd also handle the TE fine) or just the general crappy design of the HP Presario machines. I plan to get a nice vid card for the AGP slot and more ram anyhow in anticipation of AHII. If that don't fix it, then I'll look into other options. But yeah, you're right, I should comb through the AH techie boards and see if this has been addressed.
Still, until then, I wouldn't mind giving skinning a go.
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Originally posted by Arlo
You wouldn't know what "majority view" or "balanced" actually meant if either of `em kicked you in your canyass or your nadless crotch three times a day and left you an eight-by-ten color glossy photograph of the assault with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against them. :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl :lol :lol :eek: :eek: :eek:
OMIGOD! Sorry while I don't necessarily agree with Arlo this was a beautiful use of the english language!