Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Max on September 20, 2003, 11:09:24 PM
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Given the fact that I work nights. I'm usually in the MA on most mornings, Eastern time.
Every Friday, mid-morning Skuzzy changes the map. In doing so, he usually gets a hundred questions, which he patiently tries to answer. He also gets a flock of whiners, no matter which map is due to come up. griping about the upcoming terrain map. This past Friday when Pizza was due in rotation, a couple of folks went above & beyond in terms of *****ing about their' dislike for the pizza map.
Folks, give the guy a break. If ya don't like the terrain, go fly H2H or play Quake, or whatever it is you do when you aren't in the main arena.
DmdMax
Damned MKXX
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Yeah I was there and I agree with you 100% bro!
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Indeed.. No sense in whining about something that isn't going to change. Skuzzy can't please everyone, no matter what he does.
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Disagree with you Skuzzy cheerleaders. There are many rotations HTC can try. 1 week of pizza isn't cool.
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Agreed.
The problem, as I see it, is that whereas there are folks like us who are prepared to do something else while an unpopular map is up (I personally don't care for small maps) there are those people who are so greedy that they're not prepared to let the other folks have their fun. These selfish people want everything their own way all the time.
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Ahhh... you pay my subscription (or 1/4 of it to make up for the Pizzacrap) and I'll shut up about it. Deal? Otherwise, stick to reminding people to keep thier comments respectful. YOU may like H2H, the CT or Quake, I don't. The Pizzacrap ruins Aces High (for me, and quite a few others I know) for 1 week a month, I'll continue to make my thoughts on the matter known, as long as HTC see's fit to keep it in a 1wk rotation. Don't like it... edit your ignore list. Don't like it in the MA?... use the squelch command.
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:D
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Originally posted by Tumor
Ahhh... you pay my subscription (or 1/4 of it to make up for the Pizzacrap) and I'll shut up about it. Deal?
Provided you pay ¼ of my subscription to compensate for the small maps week. Each arrangement cancels out the other, and we arrive back at the status quo we have now. OK, it's a deal.
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Status quo? When did I ask you not to comment on the small maps... or go play another game during thier rotation?
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i don't agree with the original post. those pilots pay their monthly subscription of $10 per month, like me; so, they can ***** all they want about the pizza map.
if we didn't *****, the game wouldn't ever improve.
F4i
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Originally posted by Tumor
Status quo? When did I ask you not to comment on the small maps... or go play another game during thier rotation?
What's that got to do with the price of fish?
:confused:
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Originally posted by F4i
i don't agree with the original post. those pilots pay their monthly subscription of $10 per month, like me; so, they can ***** all they want about the pizza map.
I'm paying $15/month. Does that mean I'm getting to choose maps? :D
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Guys I think you missed the point of the original post.
This past Friday when Pizza was due in rotation, a couple of folks went above & beyond in terms of *****ing about their' dislike for the pizza map.
Voice your opinions, as a customer you have the right too. However when voicing an opinion or complaint you need to be professional and show respect to an employee when doing it. That is DmdMax point. I am sure all of us have been on the recieving end of a person going above and beyond what is acceptable behavior complainng about something at work. Its the same here .. voice your opinion but don't berate, badger or harass. I was not there so have no idea but that is DmdMax point here not the validity of one map or another. Or whether you should not voice your opinions or your right too. Its how you voice them and treat another person.
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BINGO! Ghostdancer hit the nail on the head.
The fact is, most players like or dislke certain maps. Last year when the player base expanded, folks were screaming for new and larger maps. Now they're availabe and in rotation. I don't happen to be a big fan of Pizza myself but dumping on a guy who's just doing his job, and berating the company he works for doesn't make the world a better place.
DmdMax
DamnedMKXX
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Well put Dmax!
I'm not saying you can't complain, I'm just saying be respectful about it. You would want your customers to treat you with respect right?
Not trying to flame anyone. Just put yourself in Skuzzy's shoes that's all. Not saying you have to agree with the decisions HTC makes, just be more professional about it.
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DMAX is right. The rest of you people are a bunch of idots with foul mouths. Get a life!
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the small maps don't get equal time.
lazs
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That's because small maps royally suck.
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Come on guys let's not make this a flame war...lol.
We are a tight community, and I wuv you guys!! *sniffle* ;)
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It's a consumer rights issue. Complaining about a service that is less than satisfactory is a right. Whether one goes above and beyond a certain point is a subjective determination. Look at it this way. Say you go to McDonald's, you order a Big Mac, you get your Big Mac. Well, the 16 year old punk making your Big Mac thinks it's funny to put a a fly in it, then shoots a snot rocket in it for good measure. Being a conscientous consumer, and seeing the smirk on the kid's face when you get your sandwich you check it. There you find your dead fly and booger.
Do you say, "Excuse me kind sir, there is a dead fly and booger in my Big Mac, if you don't mind could you please consider giving me one without some time in the distant future, only if you feel like it?"
Hell no, you say , "This is totally rediculous, I pay for a quality product, the fact that you and your company provided me with a product that myself and any other reasonable customer find totally unacceptable is unforgivable, fix it now, or hear from my lawyer".
Too many people today are willing to accept products and services that are not all they can be, simply because the provider of those products and services is blinded by their temporary success and becomes so complacent that the customer's voice is not heard.
Many, many people have voiced their disgruntlement with Pizza map on these boards with no response. When no response or mitigation of the problem is provided it is natural to take ones complaints to another medium and up the intensity a notch.
In summary, pizza map is a big hairy fly swimming a green booger in my Big Mac that is Aces High, my favorite hobby. Everytime this map comes up, the provider of this service for which I am paying is going to hear me rant and rave, period. Until the day it is fixed (ie: no more pizza map in rotation, or at least not a week of it, 25% of the month).
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no one's forcing you to pay.. :)
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Small maps are the best. Now they are there for 1 week only and someone dares to whine about them :mad:
I'd rather see it one week of large maps rotating and one week of small ones... thus something for everyone.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Many, many people have voiced their disgruntlement with Pizza map on these boards with no response. When no response or mitigation of the problem is provided it is natural to take ones complaints to another medium and up the intensity a notch.
In summary, pizza map is a big hairy fly swimming a green booger in my Big Mac that is Aces High, my favorite hobby. Everytime this map comes up, the provider of this service for which I am paying is going to hear me rant and rave, period. Until the day it is fixed (ie: no more pizza map in rotation, or at least not a week of it, 25% of the month).
That's a highly subjective viewpoint. It's a bit like berating a hotel because you don't like the colour of the carpet in the room they gave you. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the colour, just that you personally might not like it.
Same goes for the pizza map. Your talking about it as if there's something wrong with it. I like the pizza map because it eliminates a lot of the crap (virtual kiddie pie throwing) to be seen on the small maps.
No way can you adjudge what's right and what's wrong by reading a relative handful of BBS posts. The ONLY way to assess the popularity of Pizza or any other map is by HTC popup poll. If that were less than 25% for pizza, I'd say get rid of it. Otherwise, it should be kept. Same goes for all other maps, except that the small maps form a collective.
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Zazen you have every right to say that bro! :)
Just not over and over and over...lol. ;)
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Originally posted by SunKing
Disagree with you Skuzzy cheerleaders. There are many rotations HTC can try. 1 week of pizza isn't cool.
sun king is right ... plus old way was even less work for skuzzy ....
yes there are many problems with pizza beatle ..... first off .. it comes from mars.... 12k canyons .... find one for me on this planet? I'd love to see it.... It would make the grand canyon look kinda weak.
The color is a vaild point to bring up ... because we are stuck on little tiny screens for our 'sim' I really can't see on pizza ...Honestly .. I CAN'T SEE
Layout ...... was there a plan?? Control combat by placement of 12k fields? Trinity has a stratigic layout ... pizza is a joke in this area.... It makes the gameplay crap IMHO
I could go on but these are the three major points.... The rest could be lived with
Oh and you don't have to have a poll to know this is the most complained about map ever
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You bring up a good point. In you example "the employee" was rude and disrepectful too you and went above and beyond. Basically his behavior is a firing offense in your example. When you react their are levels of reaction that you can take that appropriate to the situation.
In your example a severe reaction is warranted resulting in wanting the employee fired. Which management would do. However, what if you also take it out on the cash register person. Who had nothing do with what the snot nose kid but just took your order. You first slam the register person before going to the manager. That is not fair to the register person who had nothing to do with it. You should slam the manager for the employees behavior or the employee who was disrpectful to you.
However, lets say you walk in McDonalds and say your burger is not hot but just warm. McDonald's corporate policy is to provide you hot food not just barely warm. The register person and the cook have been not been rude and disrespectful to you. So in this case again you have a right to complain and ask for a hot burger not a barely warm burger. But the situation does not warrant a severe level of response on your part. Unless the employee you register your complaint too takes it to the next level by being pissy with you.
Depending on the situation there are levels of appropriate response.
I also don't like the Pizza Map and when asked tell people why I don't like it. Basically while I know this game is just a sim and Trinity and Infinity are fantasy terrain also I just don't like the fact that I am playing on map whose clip board map is made too look like a pizza. Its too arcadish for my tastes.
More power to people who want to state their opinion. But none of know if we are in the majority or not. There are people who hate the small map Mindano with a passion, others who hate Trinity, etc., etc. Their are people who like it. State your opinions, state your opinions, state them forcefully and strongly and back them up with logic and as much data as you can present. Start a thread on the BBS to see if other people agree and to show its more than just your personal opinion, even organize those of you who agree to not play that week or go to the CT instead. Or as beetle1 states push for a popup poll to rate the map.
But in my opinion just "Ranting and Raving" is different than this and unless HTC or a representative of HTC firsts is disrepectful then what justification is there for moving up from a strongly stating your opinion to moving up to the next level of ranting and raving. Its like if McDonalds offered you only one type of dipping sauce with your Chicken McNuggets. You don't like it but it comes with the meal and they won't let your switch it for something else. You have the right to complain over it but not the right to berate the employee telling you this. He is not putting a fly in your food or doing something specifically spiteful to you. Therefore you have the right to complain and keep complaining over the policy as long as it does not go outside of the pale and move into the realm of harassment and rudeness.
As for it being a consumers right issue and customers letting service providers get away with shoddy products. The flip side of the coin is that consumers don't have the right to badger or harass anyone. They have the right to complain, they have a right to legal remedies for wrongs done to them, they do not have right to initiate verbal abuse and because of this all service providers have the right to refuse service (many time after refunding money) to a customer that they believe has crossed the line in their behavior with no justification.
Its a matter of appropriate response to the situation. Its not a matter of supressing the right to complain or people's opinion or which maps are better.
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I like the pizza map just as much as any other map, though I'm partial to the smaller maps. Some don't like it, some do. To cry about it like a 12 year old every time Skuzzy comes to make the change is just pathetic.
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Btw, if it came down to a poll I would vote to pull Pizza. But this was not the point of my posts above.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Ahhh... you pay my subscription (or 1/4 of it to make up for the Pizzacrap) and I'll shut up about it. Deal? Otherwise, stick to reminding people to keep thier comments respectful. YOU may like H2H, the CT or Quake, I don't. The Pizzacrap ruins Aces High (for me, and quite a few others I know) for 1 week a month, I'll continue to make my thoughts on the matter known, as long as HTC see's fit to keep it in a 1wk rotation. Don't like it... edit your ignore list. Don't like it in the MA?... use the squelch command.
Do you like small maps?
Are you comparing Pizza to Quake?
:lol
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My original point had nothing to do with the merits or shortcomings of the Pizza map. Rather, it addressed the constant whining directed at Skuzzy everytime he pops in to rotate terrains on Friday. Apparently there are those amongst us who feel that by paying their' $15 subscription, they have the right to whine, hound, harass and berate a person who's simply performing his at-hand task. No one deserves that kind of treatment, especially someone who usually re-enters the arena AFTER the terrain change and goes on to answer the endless chain questions.
Those of you who dislike Pizza are welcome to organize your numbers and petition HTC to abandon that map. My guess is that you'll have a greater chance of success if you:
1. Present your argument in keeping with a rational adult manner,
2. Provide a counting of numbers that shows a majority of dissatisfaction with the map.
/closing argument concluded
DmdMax
Damned MKXX
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Originally posted by ~Pyroman~
Zazen you have every right to say that bro! :)
Just not over and over and over...lol. ;)
Uhhmmm.... yes, he certainly does.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Do you like small maps?
Sure I do... so? Hey, I'm all for keeping the Pizzacrap on board, for a week even... IF you could convince the milker hordes to actually, like, you know... FIGHT each other.
... ya know, normally I wouldn't even bother but, the first time I HAD time to log on the other night what do I get? I sign on during primetime and find something like 338 WHOLE players in the arena on a Friday night and night time is just around the corner! golly what fun.
Are you comparing Pizza to Quake?
No... refer to the first post in the thread.
:lol [/B]
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Originally posted by ccvi
I'm paying $15/month. Does that mean I'm getting to choose maps? :D
No, it means you've got a billing problem with HTC. :D You'd better look into it ASAP.
F4i
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I suggested several times that HTC poll it's customers with an in-game pop-up asking for their vote on their favorite and least favorite map. They know as well as anyone who spends more than 5 hours a week playing AH that pizza map would be overhwhelmingly the least favorite map.
I made no derogatory remarks to Skuzzy, or to HTC. I merely suggested that their is a flaw in the business practice of presenting a product that is overwhelmingly unpopular to the majority of its customers. There comes a time when the designer of a service like AH has a vision of the product that is at least in part out of sync with the desires of its paying customers. Pizza map is a fine example of this.
If HTC showed some interest in re-thinking the wisdom of keeping pizza map in the game in it's current form the problem would be solved.
The best solution is an in-game pop-up poll whereby each PAYING account gets one vote on the least favorite map, if a map is universally disliked by 2/3rds or more of the paying customer constituency it should not be in the game, simple as that. Sort of like a constitutional ammendment repeal.
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Well I guess the trolls found the post ;)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I merely suggested that their is a flaw in the business practice of presenting a product that is overwhelmingly unpopular to the majority of its customers.
Can you prove that Pizza is overwhelmingly unpopular to the majority of its customers? I put it to you that there are perhaps 50-100 consistent pizza map whiners on this BBS. That compares with many thousands who subscribe to the game. if ~75 people whine about pizza on the BBS, there are probably ~4,925 people who do not. if a map is universally disliked by 2/3rds or more of the paying customer constituency it should not be in the game, simple as that.
I don't agree with those proportions. I don't feel that the map vote should be for which map to delete, but for which map to keep. Otherwise players might be tempted to form a cartel to delete pizza. I also feel that the 1/3 v 2/3 split you suggest is not a fair proportion. If the pizza map is up 25% of the time, it should only need 25% of votes in a popup poll to retain it.
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why are we whining at HTC? they didn't make the map. we should be whining at the AK's to fix it up a bit. plus not to mention it wont be around in a week when AH2 comes out.:D
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
why are we whining at HTC? they didn't make the map. we should be whining at the AK's to fix it up a bit. plus not to mention it wont be around in a week when AH2 comes out.:D
That isn't the main issue. The map is just too big. Terrible textures are a close 2nd.
I logged in during primetime hours. .Only bases I see blinking near Knights are all enemy strat targets! Give me a break the whole country milkrunning cause their are no fights.
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Look guys...quit y'er *****ing about maps.
We Rooks agree to use this this map week after week. We'll still reset your arses 3 times a week...guaranteed! :p
(http://socalsportbikes.com/xmb/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=5703&aid=7954)
F4i
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One thing i've noticed about skuzzy - that i find funny and considerate, is that he'll say hello to everyone who says "hey skuzzy"
tested it out once .... he had said about 30 hellos and channel one was streaming down with "hey scsi's", he said hello to every last loser lol :rofl:
I said 'hey scsi' myself, to see it .. but i felt guilty ... so stop saying 'hey skuzzy' heh heh
good guy to go through that BS, I wouldn't bother I'd say .. "hey folks"
but pizza still suxs ;)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
In summary, pizza map is a big hairy fly swimming a green booger in my Big Mac that is Aces High, my favorite hobby. Everytime this map comes up, the provider of this service for which I am paying is going to hear me rant and rave, period. Until the day it is fixed (ie: no more pizza map in rotation, or at least not a week of it, 25% of the month).
Roger that bro:D
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Maybe if the people that don't like a particular map and email HTC about it instead of flying off the handle and posting these demanding whine posts on the message board.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by beet1e
Can you prove that Pizza is overwhelmingly unpopular to the majority of its customers?
beet1e do you even read the content of the posts you troll? You know... the poll thing? Not only that, Zazen blatantly used the words "seemingly overwhelming"! You can't "prove" anything either, however a simple motd style poll "could" put the issue to rest IF HTC could be bothered to conduct one.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Maybe if the people that don't like a particular map and email HTC about it instead of flying off the handle and posting these demanding whine posts on the message board.
ack-ack
maybe we do this cause it seemd to change thier mind in the first place.... i want it back THE WAY IT USED TO BE.. maybe with a compromise to switch maps if one is up for longer than a week
and e-mail annoys me.. got way to much spam ..need to make new account :)
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Originally posted by Tumor
beet1e do you even read the content of the posts you troll? You know... the poll thing? Not only that, Zazen blatantly used the words "seemingly overwhelming"! You can't "prove" anything either, however a simple motd style poll "could" put the issue to rest IF HTC could be bothered to conduct one.
Yes, I see that I'm not the only one who favours a popup poll. The points I'm trying to make are that BBS whines are not the way to achieve change, and are not an accurate measure of subscriber opinion. The validity of an opinion does not increase just because it's been expressed 900 times on the BBS by the same ~50 people, month after month after month. I know I can't "prove" anything either, but I never said I could. That's why I suggested the popup poll, handsomehunk. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes, I see that I'm not the only one who favours a popup poll. The points I'm trying to make are that BBS whines are not the way to achieve change, and are not an accurate measure of subscriber opinion. The validity of an opinion does not increase just because it's been expressed 900 times on the BBS by the same ~50 people, month after month after month. I know I can't "prove" anything either, but I never said I could. That's why I suggested the popup poll, handsomehunk. :rolleyes:
lol... get your face stuffed in your own stink and it's off to the childish insult arena haha beet1e... your proving with every post that your purpose here is not to offer up good ideas or solutions, but to troll.
Get back under your bridge where you belong OR take the time to at LEAST know what your trolling.
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I want to hear more about these $10 subscriptions
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Originally posted by Zanth
I want to hear more about these $10 subscriptions
Zanth,
Email Skuzzy at billing@hitechcreations.com and tell him that you want the $10 special monthly package.
At the $10 rate, you're only allowed to fly Stukas, P-40's and F4F's and the bombs are filled with paint rather than explosives, but at least we can pay the membership fee with food stamps. ;)
F4i
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Originally posted by Tumor
lol... get your face stuffed in your own stink and it's off to the childish insult arena haha beet1e... your proving with every post that your purpose here is not to offer up good idea's or solutions, but to troll.
Get back under your bridge where you belong OR take the time to at LEAST know what your trolling.
Gawd. "idea's" - with an apostrophe. :rolleyes:
I give up hope. :(
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Originally posted by beet1e
Gawd. "idea's" - with an apostrophe. :rolleyes:
I give up hope. :(
ahhh... there it is again. The little troll changes the subject. Wow beet1e, your a sharp one. :rofl Well, it's good to know you'll sleep tight having poked someone in the eye (again) for no other reason than your ridikulus ego.
btw... if fixed the horrible puncuation mistake. Wouldn't want to confuse that acrimonious intellect of yours.
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What's up with this malignancy Tumor has for Beet1e ? Every post Tumor has to bash him.
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Originally posted by Manedew
maybe we do this cause it seemd to change thier mind in the first place.... i want it back THE WAY IT USED TO BE.. maybe with a compromise to switch maps if one is up for longer than a week
and e-mail annoys me.. got way to much spam ..need to make new account :)
The problem with that idea is the same as it was back then--it takes no time at all (considering the numbers) to reset a small map, which is then at the back of the line in the rotation. After going through the small maps, we would then stay on a big map for a week, then another, then another, followed by a few days of the small maps...
You know, just like it is RIGHT NOW. The purpose of the new rotation was to limit the time we spend on the big maps, after all, and to spend more time on the small ones.
Here's another thought: Rotate 1 week big map, one week small mapset, one week big map, one week small mapset....
That way the big map guys would have 50% of the time, and the small map guys would have 50%.