Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on September 23, 2003, 08:52:54 AM
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http://www.edexcellence.net/socialstudies/Standards.html
Only 6 states earned an "A": Alabama, Arizona, California, Indiana, Massachusetts, New York.
One of the solutions in the report recommended is:
(that teachers) "Be balanced and free of overt or covert ideological agendas."...in other words, too much political correctness.
Gee, really? ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
...in other words, too much political correctness.
Gee, really? ;)
That statement, with no other context could just as easliy mean that there is too little PC.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Only 5 states earned an "A": Alabama, Arizona, California, Indiana, Massachusetts, New York.
And Ripsnort gets an F in math :D
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Originally posted by Sikboy
That statement, with no other context could just as easliy mean that there is too little PC.
-Sik
Actually, on our local news, is *was* reported that there was too much PC.
Read the report...
One of the weakest state US history standards characteristically is "Substitute wishful thinking or politically correct ideology for factual accuracy"
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Only 5 states earned an "A": Alabama, Arizona, California, Indiana, Massachusetts, New York.
Yo Riptard I counted 6 States..... :rofl
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Originally posted by fd ski
And Ripsnort gets an F in math :D
LOL yep! (big fingers)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Read the report...
wich is why I said "with no other context"
-Sik
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"Substitute wishful thinking or politically correct ideology for factual accuracy"
23 states AND the District of Columbia. :)
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Originally posted by popeye
"Substitute wishful thinking or politically correct ideology for factual accuracy"
23 states AND the District of Columbia. :)
Tsk tsk, no comment on the report though, eh popeye?
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Actually, on our local news, is *was* reported that there was too much PC.
This sentence made me laugh out loud because it makes no sense haha.
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so where is our education "at any cost"? or health care blah blah blah ... this country is fek'd up
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Originally posted by Manedew
so where is our education "at any cost"? or health care blah blah blah ... this country is fek'd up
Nor did this one David...:rofl
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
One of the weakest state US history standards characteristically is "Substitute wishful thinking or politically correct ideology for factual accuracy"
LOL!
It's not a "state" problem, it's a world wide problem.
Just read this BBS!
;)
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Since I don't claim to be an expert in such matters, I can't comment on the study, but here's someone who did:
"The Fordham Foundation has produced system for rating states’ standards, the validity of which is not at all obvious. The procedures for determining the rankings are unclear and, therefore, difficult to replicate. The qualifications of the "experts" whose expertise was used in some unspecified way is questionable. If the system had some immediately obvious merit, these objections would be of no import. When one looks, however, at the most immediately obvious place for validating the system – the academic performance of the states – one finds absolutely no correlation. States with well received standards score low, states labeled as "irresponsible" because of their "lousy" standards score high. Taking this report seriously could well lead reformers down blind alleys or toward questionable ends."
http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/CERAI/documents/archives/00/cerai-00-07.htm
Who's correct? Dang if I know....
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Originally posted by popeye
Since I don't claim to be an expert in such matters, I can't comment on the study, but here's someone who did:
"The Fordham Foundation has produced system for rating states’ standards, the validity of which is not at all obvious. The procedures for determining the rankings are unclear and, therefore, difficult to replicate. The qualifications of the "experts" whose expertise was used in some unspecified way is questionable. If the system had some immediately obvious merit, these objections would be of no import. When one looks, however, at the most immediately obvious place for validating the system – the academic performance of the states – one finds absolutely no correlation. States with well received standards score low, states labeled as "irresponsible" because of their "lousy" standards score high. Taking this report seriously could well lead reformers down blind alleys or toward questionable ends."
http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/CERAI/documents/archives/00/cerai-00-07.htm
Who's correct? Dang if I know....
Uh huh, discredit the report...thats a familiar tactic.
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Well Rip, just so you know... Indiana, which received an "A" by your news report, has recently been criticized for having low standards. Sounds like Popeye might have a point, doesn't it?
I don't get excited one way or another by these reports for this reason. It too often seems the people compiling the data don't even know what they are looking at or for... yet they get to influence where we are going.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Well Rip, just so you know... Indiana, which received an "A" by your news report, has recently been criticized for having low standards. Sounds like Popeye might have a point, doesn't it?
I don't get excited one way or another by these reports for this reason. It too often seems the people compiling the data don't even know what they are looking at or for... yet they get to influence where we are going.
Fair enough!
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If their "results" were based on state findings rather than their own standardized testing then they are without merit. Just as popeye posted, many states have low standards resulting in higher standings when compared with states with higher standards.
Texas has been fighting an uphill battle to raise academic standards over the last few years. It hasn't been easy going, lotta opposition.
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Did you even read the report ripsnort. I am going to guess you have no idea what they mean by balance. Florida recieved a D because it failed to inform its students about its role in slavery and how it was important to its economy. Other states had balance problems because they left out how we slaughtered the native americans on scales saddam couldnt do.
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Yes I did Frogwoman...did you read the conclusions and recommendations? (Where do you think I got some quotes up above? :rolleyes: )
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Uh huh, discredit the report...thats a familiar tactic.
And it's usually a good one. I mean, they are calling into question the validity of the report, and they put forth contentions as to why they think it's invalid. Now, maybe they are totally off base withh these contentions, but what is wrong with bringing them up? It's not like the University of Wisconsin, Madison was saying "This report sucks because it was written by half wits and morons."
Hey, I for one, would love for this to be true... evidence that California Schools don't suck? Sounds good to me.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
And it's usually a good one. I mean, they are calling into question the validity of the report, and they put forth contentions as to why they think it's invalid. Now, maybe they are totally off base withh these contentions, but what is wrong with bringing them up? It's not like the University of Wisconsin, Madison was saying "This report sucks because it was written by half wits and morons."
Hey, I for one, would love for this to be true... evidence that California Schools don't suck? Sounds good to me.
-Sik
I thought it was quite obvious that PC is an all-too familiar lesson taught via Social Studies, just look at some of our younger posters on this board?
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Hey old friend.
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Rip, the FIRST thing I want to know about is the agenda of the people who produce such reports. Then I'll look for expert critiques, and THEIR agenda. Then try to evaluate the results.
There are lots of "think tanks" with very academic sounding names funded by tons of money from foundations with VERY definite agendas. The "scholars" who prepare such reports know who they are being paid by before they design the study, and very often the results support the agenda of the funding foundation.
Imagine that. :)
I take those results with a grain of salt.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I thought it was quite obvious that PC is an all-too familiar lesson taught via Social Studies, just look at some of our younger posters on this board?
This is what made me wonder abaout the PC effect on history. I mean, how can California get an "A" while being "too PC" is a problem elsewhere? That struck me as odd.
But the critique of the report does't even address Political Correctness as an issue.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
This is what made me wonder abaout the PC effect on history. I mean, how can California get an "A" while being "too PC" is a problem elsewhere? That struck me as odd.
But the critique of the report does't even address Political Correctness as an issue.
-Sik
Once you get 5 miles outside of the inner cities of California, you're in "Republicountry"
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Without transparency in the methods used to score and rank these states, the entire report faces severe and warranted validity issues. It's not even a matter of political correctness as some would like to make it. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the results, the fact that the methods employed to obtain them remain a mystery raises doubts about the whole thing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Sikboy
But the critique of the report does't even address Political Correctness as an issue.
-Sik
I found that strange as well, since the report addresses this as one of the problems {""Substitute wishful thinking or politically correct ideology for factual accuracy"} Denial is a one way conversation...
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Name an example of a "young"(i guess on these boards between the ages for 20-30) poster being to PC when it comes to history rip.
Personally i see older posters makeing ignorant statements that america has clean hands and has always made the right decisions throughout its history.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It's not even a matter of political correctness as some would like to make it. -- Todd/Leviathn
How did you deduct that? I see it constantly in day to day life. Why wouldn't it be in the schools?
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Name an example of a "young"(i guess on these boards between the ages for 20-30) poster being to PC when it comes to history rip.
Personally i see older posters makeing ignorant statements that america has clean hands and has always made the right decisions throughout its history.
Your vision is that of young and dumb, since you focus on one issue of history, maybe two..
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Denial is a one way conversation...
Indeed. And I don't think I can hold up both ends of this one any more.
-Sik
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I asked for examples of posters being to PC when it comes to history ripsnort. Or are you just going to continue to make ignorant statements without backing them up.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
How did you deduct that? I see it constantly in day to day life. Why wouldn't it be in the schools?
You misunderstood me. I'm saying that the validity of the report itself does not boil down to issues of political correctness but rather issues of poor methods. That's not to say that political correctness does not pervade society or schools... maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. However, without a clear procedure for grading based on some sort of revealed criteria, the study's results remain highly suspect no matter how you feel about them.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
I asked for examples of posters being to PC when it comes to history ripsnort. Or are you just going to continue to make ignorant statements without backing them up.
Its been sewn into the very fabric of our political garments that the thread is very hard to detect, but its there...
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
You misunderstood me. I'm saying that the validity of the report itself does not boil down to issues of political correctness but rather issues of poor methods. That's not to say that political correctness does not pervade society or schools... maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. However, without a clear procedure for grading based on some sort of revealed criteria, the study's results remain highly suspect no matter how you feel about them.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Ah, yes, I did misunderstand. Good clarification...me being a "slow farm boy" and all ;) Thks.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
I asked for examples of posters being to PC when it comes to history ripsnort. Or are you just going to continue to make ignorant statements without backing them up.
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Originally posted by AKIron
If their "results" were based on state findings rather than their own standardized testing then they are without merit. Just as popeye posted, many states have low standards resulting in higher standings when compared with states with higher standards.
Texas has been fighting an uphill battle to raise academic standards over the last few years. It hasn't been easy going, lotta opposition.
the TAAS is horrible, if that's what your refering too ... it's too easy for some .. a damn joke(for me) .. and downright impossible for others.... i.e. un-english speaking mexicans... There are school districts that spend almost thier entire time teaching this TAAS test; In acutuallty these tests take away from education IMO and many elementy school teachers i know (my Mom, her freinds & freinds my age just getting into teaching)
would you deny them at the very least a highschool education degree- if they can get through the classes? We have college and grad schools for a reason....
My high school was mostly a waste of time IMO- but for some kids it might be all they get... and forceing them to goto school just to fail them like this seems wrong. Plus, like i said .. the curicculim ends up being the Test in some places... that's just stupid.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Do a search on "political correctness" or "PC", you'll find many examples on this BBS. If you need help using the search engine, let me know.
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No, no, i want you to learn something, and actually spend some time backing up the bull**** that comes out of your mouth.
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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggim
Me? Fail English? That's unpossible!
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Went back and read the report. Was originally under the false assumption that this report graded how well children learned US history in the various states. It doesn't. It grades the states on how closely they teach US History according to Dr. Stern.
Hmmmm
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Its a crappy study with questionable standards. Typical ripsnort post material.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
You misunderstood me. I'm saying that the validity of the report itself does not boil down to issues of political correctness but rather issues of poor methods. That's not to say that political correctness does not pervade society or schools... maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. However, without a clear procedure for grading based on some sort of revealed criteria, the study's results remain highly suspect no matter how you feel about them.
-- Todd/Leviathn
This is absolutely true, and the frustrating thing about such "reports"... they are often given credibility they so clearly don't deserve, and do nothing but muddy the water.
Hiya, Apache! S!
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Manedew, you hit on some good points.
Standardized tests have backfired in many ways... schools have no choice but to teach for the test. If they don't, they will be maligned by every political opponent, parent, you name it. If schools do teach to the test, they begin to limit students to the content of the tests. In our state, this means math and reading concerns will supercede by far any other concern. That can be a bad thing if your career interest lays outside those two areas.
It's worse than that though. With "No Child Left Behind" mandates, schools are forced to teach to the middle, or even bottom of the class in order to ensure as many people pass as possible. This is great for the lower end, but a disaster for the upper end. Once again, it becomes a built-in governing device that retards possibilities on the upper end.
If I were king... ah... take the Texas example. No way, NO WAY should english-speaking students be held back (so to speak) by non-english speaking people. English is the official language of the country, it is essential our citizens speak it, period. There should be alternative schools (Read: "Spanish-speaking", PC be damned) that teach in spanish, but with a heavy emphasis on learning english. I don't care it is segregationist; the current system of dumbing down our education to pull up the students years behind for one reason or another isn't ever going to work. It's time to face up to that reality.
We cannot compete with students from other countries because we are scared to death one of our kids might fail in school. Other countries have no such compunction, and will freely allow students to wash out. Until we wake up and realize some kids ARE going to fail despite our best intentions and once again gear our schools to challenge students at ALL levels, we cannot hope to compete with any country anywhere.*
*steps off the well-worn soapbox.
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When did they make English the official language of the US?
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What language would be the official language? Perhaps I mispoke. If you are suggesting it is not necessary to learn english to live in the US, I'd disagree.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
Its a crappy study with questionable standards. Typical ripsnort post material.
hey, straight from the left wing news media! (KOMO News 4, Seattle) Don't ya hate it when your own does it to ya? :p Maybe if you focused more on the subject and not the person, the jerk-off in you wouldn't show thru as the real "you"?
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I wonder if theres enough alphabetics to describe the level of non-US history teaching...
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
I asked for examples of posters being to PC when it comes to history ripsnort. Or are you just going to continue to make ignorant statements without backing them up.
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Originally posted by Fishu
I wonder if theres enough alphabetics to describe the level of non-US history teaching...
I'm pretty sure it is the inverse of the Finnish grade for arrogance. ;)
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Originally posted by Kieran
I'm pretty sure it is the inverse of the Finnish grade for arrogance. ;)
Actually, I was referring to americans arrogance towards other nationalities with it, in a way of saying they don't know enough of the history outside US and therefore acts like they do.
For example, the French bashing and calling out europeans as anti-americans has been quite hilarious, considering the fact how much worse americans have put down the french compared to these european "anti-americans".
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Originally posted by Fishu
Actually, I was referring to americans arrogance towards other nationalities with it, in a way of saying they don't know enough of the history outside US and therefore acts like they do.
For example, the French bashing and calling out europeans as anti-americans has been quite hilarious, considering the fact how much worse americans have put down the french compared to these european "anti-americans".
I think this deserves a quote (Yes, Dowding, Cntl-V Cntl-C) from DejaVu:
"Its the wonderfull thing about America...There's enough people from every part of the world so that no one particular nation feels the need to accept responsibility for our behavior..though virtually every nation has contributed to our culture in some way." AKDejaVu
In simple terms, when you speak harshly of us, you're speaking harshly of YOUR ancestors.
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in other words, too much political correctness.
Did anyone notice that 2 of the "A" States are California and New York? That these are bastions of liberal ideology and .... god forbid... political correctness? Anyone have salt for Rippies crow?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Did anyone notice that 2 of the "A" States are California and New York? That these are bastions of liberal ideology and .... god forbid... political correctness? Anyone have salt for Rippies crow?
We covered this earlier in the thread. Once you get outside the big city's, you're in Republicountry.
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Won't wash, Rip.
If you operate under the assumption their respective governments vote liberal, it can be assumed their voting is representative of the bulk of the population. It may be true California and New York have urban areas that are conservative, but it is also true their populations tend to be centralized in their larger cities.
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Originally posted by Kieran
Won't wash, Rip.
If you operate under the assumption their respective governments vote liberal, it can be assumed their voting is representative of the bulk of the population. It may be true California and New York have urban areas that are conservative, but it is also true their populations tend to be centralized in their larger cities.
Ah come on! nothing worse than a fellow fisherman coming by and cutting your line!
Well, are not the classroom sizes larger in the inner city? One liberal teacher per 30 students, vs 20 students in rural area? (Meaning, more teachers outside the city?)Theres gotta be a reason...maybe teachers are coming around in the big cities? (Shrugs)
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Ripsnort,
Not sure what you're trying to say... but...
How exactly does the ancestors increase anyones knowledge of the world history or anything else for that matter?
I don't either buy the ancestor argument, since they're long gone and have no word in the directions of todays world.
It's the current, living generations, which makes things happen in the world.
It's the currently living people whos taken it as their objective to bash the french and rename the french fries to freedom fries, not the ancestors.
So if I fault these "anti-french" people arrogant, how could I possibly fault the ancestors, when they had nothing to do with it?
It's not like they decided to approve or disapprove the Iraq war or tell people to bash the french.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ah come on! nothing worse than a fellow fisherman coming by and cutting your line!
Well, are not the classroom sizes larger in the inner city? One liberal teacher per 30 students, vs 20 students in rural area? (Meaning, more teachers outside the city?)Theres gotta be a reason...maybe teachers are coming around in the big cities? (Shrugs)
Or maybe you just type stuff till it forms sentences and have no clue when there is a cause and effect between your premises and your conclusions...
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Originally posted by Manedew
the TAAS is horrible, if that's what your refering too
I wasn't. Among other efforts there is a new test, don't recall the name, that is required for High School graduation. It's meeting much opposition.
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Well, are not the classroom sizes larger in the inner city? One liberal teacher per 30 students, vs 20 students in rural area? (Meaning, more teachers outside the city?)Theres gotta be a reason...maybe teachers are coming around in the big cities? (Shrugs)
I don't know what schools you are talking about. 20 to 1? Dreaming. When I taught 5th grade I had 30-33 all the time. Bedford (my home town) is a rural farm town of 13,500.
Moreover, if there are more people in the cities than in the rural areas, there will be more students in the city as well. You're also forgetting rural schools tend to be poorer, so it is highly unlikely your scenario exists anywhere.
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Some of the classes I have taken have hundreds of "students" in em and did fine.
So maybe 30 years of lowering standards and "progressive" teaching isn't working out so hot eh?
lazs
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Working fine in California.
We got an A
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Working fine in California.
We got an A
Big WTG! Now, get rid of Davis, get a good republican back into power(Not ARNOLD!), and hopefully your state will pull out of its nose dive.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Some of the classes I have taken have hundreds of "students" in em and did fine.
So maybe 30 years of lowering standards and "progressive" teaching isn't working out so hot eh?
lazs
Not sure if you're trying to draw a relationship between college and public education, but I'm going to guess most public schools don't have classrooms with "hundreds of 'students' in em". Or are you talking about the army?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Big WTG! Now, get rid of Davis, get a good republican back into power(Not ARNOLD!), and hopefully your state will pull out of its nose dive.
Didja watch Leno Monday night? The quip for Mary Carey had me rolling in bed.
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Originally posted by AKIron
If their "results" were based on state findings rather than their own standardized testing then they are without merit. Just as popeye posted, many states have low standards resulting in higher standings when compared with states with higher standards.
Texas has been fighting an uphill battle to raise academic standards over the last few years. It hasn't been easy going, lotta opposition.
Wasn't GWB and then his hand picked successor the Governor of this state that earned a "C"? What about all the campaigning by them about the better education that we now have thanks to them? Clearly someone was lying, was it the Report or the Republicans?
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Originally posted by rpm371
Wasn't GWB and then his hand picked successor the Governor of this state that earned a "C"? What about all the campaigning by them about the better education that we now have thanks to them? Clearly someone was lying, was it the Report or the Republicans?
Did you check the date of the report?
[edit] Nevermind, Misread on my part.
[/edit]
-Sik
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RPM, try to understand...
If a state attempts to self-regulate and up standards, there will be an immediate drop in standardized test scores. So... even though it looks in the short term like the state is going backward, in actuality they are looking ahead to better scores down the line, scores that actually mean something. This of course will never stop opponents to spending money on education from either intentionally or unintentionally misinterpreting the data. People who are vehemently against public education tend to be so to the point of not listening anymore.
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Oh.. found it..
If you check the rankings page, at the very bottom, you can see that Texas was a "B" in 1998 and 2000, but dropped to a "C" in 2003.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Kieran
RPM, try to understand...
If a state attempts to self-regulate and up standards, there will be an immediate drop in standardized test scores. So...
But they are claiming HIGHER test scores and "Blue Ribbon" schools. Bush and Perry both campaigned on this.
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kieran... are you saying that the standards have increased dramaticaly and that is the reason that the scores have decreased dramaticaly? If so.... My guess is that the standards are still not up to the standards of 30 or more years ago. I will listen to anything you say but you very seldom say anything.
MT... if CA got an A then they graded on a curve.
Also kieran.. when I am talking about large classrooms I am talking about night school and certification classes for work. If there is a problem with large classes for schools then the problem should be elliminated... if you elliminate enough of the problems the class size will shrink in any case... the end result will be that just as many kids will end up graduating but the ones who do will know one hell of a lot more than the ones who are graduating now...
as for the ones who can't sit through school.... well.. we need janitors and security guards and such too. Nothing wrong with that.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
kieran... are you saying that the standards have increased dramaticaly and that is the reason that the scores have decreased dramaticaly? If so.... My guess is that the standards are still not up to the standards of 30 or more years ago. I will listen to anything you say but you very seldom say anything.
MT... if CA got an A then they graded on a curve.
Also kieran.. when I am talking about large classrooms I am talking about night school and certification classes for work. If there is a problem with large classes for schools then the problem should be elliminated... if you elliminate enough of the problems the class size will shrink in any case... the end result will be that just as many kids will end up graduating but the ones who do will know one hell of a lot more than the ones who are graduating now...
as for the ones who can't sit through school.... well.. we need janitors and security guards and such too. Nothing wrong with that.
lazs
I am not saying standards have increased everywhere. I am saying (in response to AK's post) raising standards gives people like you ammo to slag public schools, even though they are doing what you ask them to do.
I'd agree with the rest of your post. Too bad parents will never allow that to happen. Oh, and before you feel too good about yourself, you'd have a hard time passing those tests you so roundly criticize for being too easy. ;)
Edit: omitted "ammo"
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Originally posted by rpm371
But they are claiming HIGHER test scores and "Blue Ribbon" schools. Bush and Perry both campaigned on this.
Who said anything about test scores? The cited report isn't about how well children learn history but rather about the content of the history taught.
You're just proving the point about schools with lower standards comparing more favorably against those with increasing standards. Where would you rather send your kids?
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kieran... I did not claim the tests were too easy but that the standards were lower. I passed high school back in the '60's. I don't claim to recall everything I learned. I could however pass any test given high school students with a couple of months study...
Also... I have not punished you for increasing standards or used it as ammo. I would much rather see a return to standards of 30 or more (as many more as you like) years and let as many fail as needed to.
If a student fails then he fails. any parent that claims you should pass him even if he can't pass the test would be laughed out of any reasonable court.
lazs
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Now we are getting closer to seeing eye-to-eye.
I am all for letting kids fail that choose to fail. I have no time in my day for kids that are given every opportunity to do the right thing but choose not to over and over. They are dragging the rest of the class and school down, and the sooner we are shed of them, the better. This does not mean I am unsympathetic to a kid that is busting his/her butt to make it. My simplified world view is society has no use for people that make no attempt to fit in, and the sooner these kids learn the lesson, the better. Let them come back a year or two later, or let them take a G.E.D. once they understand how the world really works.
Perhaps I mispoke... but there are people that will use every test score, or every report (as linked above) to make a point regardless of the context of the scores or the report- and that is not even considering the accuracy issue. Attributing this to you without a direct link was wrong, and I apologize.
I wish parents would get laughed out of court, but they aren't. The tests themselves are attacked. Where do you think "English as a Second Language" policies came from? Parents upset the tests were biased, therefore depriving their children equal education.
It would be difficult to return to the standards of 30 years ago, mainly because the world is irrevocably different than it was. Still... I wish we could narrow our focus a bit to pure academics and ignore the moral issues that seem to dominate our thinking.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Who said anything about test scores? The cited report isn't about how well children learn history but rather about the content of the history taught.
You're just proving the point about schools with lower standards comparing more favorably against those with increasing standards. Where would you rather send your kids?
Kieran brought up test scores, if you would just look at the quote. Bush put great effort into redoing Textbooks and Teaching standards in Texas. So, did he do a bad job and lie about it, or is the report bogus?
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I can tell ya why Cali got an A.
All they teach is so and so invented so and so on so and so date. Hard to misrepresent dates and names.
OK, so its been 30+ years since I graduated HS, but thats how it was in my school as far as the text books went. The teacher might go off on a tangent once in while, which was cool.
Here in Arkansas, there is a HS history teacher who is just off her rocker. Gets events and dates wrong and mixed up and failed my wifes friends daughter on a few questions that were absolutely correct (IMO :p )
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Ok, but you were blaming Bush for Texas' low test scores. What low test scores?
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I'll try to un-muddy the water.
A state can try to improve things in the long haul by getting aggressive about standards. Doing so guarantees a certain percentage of students will fail state standardized tests (the tool by which a state will test standards) in the short term. This looks real bad in the news, and a state has to be ready to take some serious heat. OTOH, a state can lower standards and get more people to pass the test, which looks very good in the short term.
Of course Texas school officials can talk themselves blue in the face trying to explain why the scores are low- people aren't about to listen. Yet it is exactly what people say they want done.
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Maybe I misunderstood ya RPM, my mistake.
I think many Texans are willing to endure the stigma of lower statistics compared to the rest of the country, at least short term, if it means raising the standard of education long term.
What's the alternative? It would seem to be standards that spiral ever downward.
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Now most of us are starting to see eye to eye....
I would agree that the only sensible thing to do would be to make english the official language of every state. The "second language" thing would hold no weight then. This was the case with immigrants 50 or more years ago. Face it... you can't teach or test in every possible language. doing only a couple is worse discrimination than doing only one.
Make schools full time year round institutions. The money saved and the more intensive teaching will increase scores.
face the facts that some people are not ready at this time to be in school.... they can leave and go back to school later when they are really ready.
Prisons and night schools have GED programs that have good graduation rates.
lazs