Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hitech on September 23, 2003, 03:56:42 PM
-
Ah2 Classic is comming together.
Here are some screen shots i did today.
Screen Shots (http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/ah2ss)
HiTech
-
1st .. woohoo
no damage pics
-
Blimey
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
Thanks,
They look awesome
Drftr
-
Cool.
Now I wonder if we can shoot the houses in the forest. You know the big bad wolf lives there and he is always harrassing the three little pigs or something like that.
-
:eek: :eek: :eek:
*saliva drips off lip*
holy **** that looks good...sky seems excessivly murky though
-
New Whine Record?
Only 9 minutes for the first whine to appear.
Sure Hitech appreciated that.
Drftr
-
Thank you for taking the time to make and post those screenshots HiTech.
Westy
-
Thank you HiTech.
What resolution is this?
-
3D hedgerows!
Looks good, can't wait.
-
Wow beautiful graphics, terrain, new buildings dotting the countryside, and tracer spiral effects. Kinda looks like a cross between WW2OL and IL2 FB with AH's unique twist keeping it mostly original. Love it :D
I'm guessing but I'd say it's between 1024x768 and 1280x768
-
wasnt a wine...just pointing out the sky didnt look none to bright...not that it matters...
-
I kinda agree with vorticon... although I doubt it'll be much of a problem. It seems that I was wrong... we may see AH Classic before Q3 ends after all ;)
-
Spitty looks sexyyyyyyyyy! (wipes spitty dweeb drool off mouth):D
-
Nice!!! I cant wait AH2 lol :D
-
Last image in the set..
Anyone see the rubber marks on the runway...
Nice effect.
Having never seen a real tracer trail...I'll have to take your word for it that this is what they look like.
WTG Hitech....
But the Paranoid person in me says HT's giving us screenies to soften the blow.;)
-
HiTech ...
I like the sun effect alot. I remember talking about it at the con, but could quite visualize it ... nice touch.
LTR R15,R15
BZ NICEJOB
-
Hitech is a spit dweeb!!! :p
I'm going to uninstall il-2:fb when this comes out.
-
Originally posted by hitech
Ah2 Classic is comming together.
Here are some screen shots i did today.
Screen Shots (http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/ah2ss)
HiTech
Thank you very much!
Have any with a man's plane featured?
Sakai
-
Oh yeah, what does block man look like?
-
Very nice! :)
(http://www.flos.clara.net/storage/cheerleader.gif)
-
...but does it look better than let say WBIII?
-
:D :D come on ht make my prediction for the 29th:D . back to the subject now very very very very very very nice.cant wait to hid under trees in osti.
skull12
-
Originally posted by Zipper9
...but does it look better than let say WBIII?
Errr whats WBIII??? oh yes! that game with 30 players? :D
-
very cool :)
-
[size=12][color=sea-green]SPITFIRE![/size][/color]
So ... like ... here I am looking at the back of that Spitfire pilot's head and I'm thinking, "Something's wrong here. That head isn't square enough." Could you give us a closeup of that head from different angles so we can be assured that it still has a beak?
Oh .. and looking at that terrain ... those nice little farm houses scattered over the countryside ... just makes me wanna fake an engine malfunction, land and see if the farmer's daughter has been left unattended.
-
im pleased:) ty HT
Spit like spit but background:)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/ah2ss/17.jpg)
do we need another 100 whine threads to get more?;)
regards
ramzey
-
Originally posted by Flossy
Very nice! :)
(http://www.flos.clara.net/storage/cheerleader.gif)
good one Flossy!!!:rofl :lol :rofl :D
-
Is that a pilot in the aircraft?
-
haha hitech, thats a good one, taking il2 and CFS3 pics and claiming they are ah2....
wait....you mean...those are actually ah2 pics???
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
-
Originally posted by Mister Fork
Is that a pilot in the aircraft?
yes
-
it all looks good btw..my only worry tho is that forest canopy-if it is low res, and the shadow looks funny, but I am sure by the game is ready it will be less low-res looking.
-
WTG All involved at HTC, these look awesome!!
Gonna take me an hour to clean the drool off my keyboard, BTW I dont see any sheep for JOC. Maybe hes got em all locked up in his penthouse!!
-
thanks for the screenshots HT, I have a question - the spit has some new stuff around the gunsight area and I know that you could change the width of the sight and the illumination of the sight by some controls that were located there - at least on the early marks of the spit. Are the new planes going to have this modeled?
strk
-
-
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/ah2ss/9.jpg)
I feel dissoriented in this pic.... diving down a steep mountain? or a very large hill in the distance?
-
Nice pics! :D
But it'd have suited better with a picture of the (presumably) reworked Bf109 in it! :D
-
hey hitech...you only made 1 spelling error...hope that means what i think it does...
-
does anyone else notice that extremley low-res in the bottom left hand corner? is it gonna be like that in the release or is it just to kinda get a general idea of what it will be like?
-
Originally posted by vorticon
hey hitech...you only made 1 spelling error...hope that means what i think it does...
The white buffalo has returned?
-
Originally posted by acepilot2
does anyone else notice that extremley low-res in the bottom left hand corner? is it gonna be like that in the release or is it just to kinda get a general idea of what it will be like?
Actually ... to me it gives hope that the frame rate performance won't take as big a hit as I had previously feared.
-
Thanks for the update Hitech. Its always appriciated in my nook of California.
-
(http://www.giuda.it/forum/images/smiles/168.gif)
-
Originally posted by vorticon
hey hitech...you only made 1 spelling error...hope that means what i think it does...
John has a long mustache...John has a long mustache...John has a long mustache.
The dog drank the water and pee'ed on the tire...The dog drank the water and pee'ed on the tire.
-
ty
-
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
-
Way to go HTC i think you got a winner on your hands.
Texas is proud;)
-
Looks great... even with the Stinkfire blockin the view :)
-
HEDGE ROWS !!!
Nothin like flying low over the hedge rows.
Terrain looks fantastic.
-
Originally posted by Gremlin
WTG All involved at HTC, these look awesome!!
Gonna take me an hour to clean the drool off my keyboard, BTW I dont see any sheep for JOC. Maybe hes got em all locked up in his penthouse!!
The little wooly beauties are in my 'protective care' and whether I realease em all to you all depends on how nice everyone is to me,Ive been working hard on the sheep for AH2,making them more supple,more wooly,more willing..,Ive integrated coin slots on em,as after all this R&D I need to make some money,and going with the theme of TOD,the better you do,the better quality of sheep that will be available from my extensive range,the ones at the bottom of the ladder bite back,make you do the washing and dishes and make ya walk the ewes,while the ones at the top manicure your nails,bring you beer,turn on the tv for you to watch the big game and lots more........
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
WTG Hitech....
But the Paranoid person in me says HT's giving us screenies to soften the blow.;)
I concur... I'll chop the wood, whos going to bring the stake and some matches?
-
Originally posted by Joc
Errr whats WBIII??? oh yes! that game with 30 players? :D
correct lol
-
thank you for taking time to post update pics. shouldnt this appear in news section too? its the first place we all look im sure!
looks very nice but i think i need to see it running to make any decision on whether it is as good as it appears. The ground speeding by is one of the most important effects and it looks as though there will be plenty of ground objects to make it appear fast in those pics.I agree it does appear slightly low res but maybe in motion it will not appear so obvious?.
Do trees and shrubs appear at a short distance or off into the horizon? will a panzer or ostwind stay hidden or appear as a black dot still? HTC have mentioned the new pixel shader making the bullets appear the right size on screen (at least i think this is what it meant) will this apply to distant aircraft or vehicles too?
will we have to take more care when trying to spot enemy planes at 3k or more?
again though, thanks for pics.
-
And can we run into trees and die again?
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
But the Paranoid person in me says HT's giving us screenies to soften the blow.;)
That's a very good point. Some people have posted that a lack of news was indicative that AHII was beind schedule. Now we have posts hinting that having news is indicative of AHII being behind Schhedule!
-Sik
-
I think Hitech's comment "Ah2 Classic is comming together." means that it will be on time. :)
-
Great pics hitech. Increased my enthusiasm and anticipation, thanks.
-
Originally posted by Joc
The little wooly beauties are in my 'protective care' and whether I realease em all to you all depends on how nice everyone is to me,Ive been working hard on the sheep for AH2,making them more supple,more wooly,more willing..,Ive integrated coin slots on em,as after all this R&D I need to make some money,and going with the theme of TOD,the better you do,the better quality of sheep that will be available from my extensive range,the ones at the bottom of the ladder bite back,make you do the washing and dishes and make ya walk the ewes,while the ones at the top manicure your nails,bring you beer,turn on the tv for you to watch the big game and lots more........
Please make sure that my sheep has a cupholder
-
Hey hey, thx for the pictures :)
-
Maybe the whining will stop for a few days now.
-
Awesome looking, HiTech!
I can't wait!:D
-
Thanks for the screen shots Hitech. Question, is the apparent darkness of the terrain simply a time of day (lighting) thing, or is it built in?
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
But the Paranoid person in me says HT's giving us screenies to soften the blow.;)
Yeah I dont think we looking at this week. Noticed some error messages in the text buffer of the screen shots.
-
Originally posted by Zanth
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by muckmaw
But the Paranoid person in me says HT's giving us screenies to soften the blow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I dont think we looking at this week. Noticed some error messages in the text buffer of the screen shots.
Yeah I dont think we looking at this week. Noticed some error messages in the text buffer of the screen shots.
I don't believe in pessimism - Clint Eastwood
-
Oh, only one week to make it come togheter ....
-
Originally posted by Nilsen10
Maybe the whining will stop for a few days now. :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
Nice HiTech! But take your time and get everything correct. Im still having alot of fun in the present release. I wont require an update for a long time yet.
3rd quarter of 04 should be a good time for a new release.
Thanks
Swag
-
Originally posted by Swager
Nice HiTech! But take your time and get everything correct. Im still having alot of fun in the present release. I wont require an update for a long time yet.
3rd quarter of 04 should be a good time for a new release.
Thanks
Swag
-
Originally posted by hitech
Ah2 Classic is comming together.
Here are some screen shots i did today.
HiTech
Looking great............ as the panel work is going to be quite detailed is there any chance of the cannon bulge in the wing being on the panel behind the cannon rather than some where between cannon and fuselage.
Experts will correct me but i believe early MkIX's had a big fat "c" bulge and later MkIX's had a thinner bulge to the left or the right side of the panel which is more common.
-
Very nice HT keep up the great work =S=.
-
the message "Missing Shape BOMB" would greatly imply a grotesque workload to bring AHII to release. There are more than 70 planes or so, but it looks to me they had to remodel EVERYTHING...
I say HT brings it on when he's ready.
-
Release when ready 2Hawks?... Sounds like an extremly good plan. :D
-
Originally posted by 2Hawks
the message "Missing Shape BOMB" would greatly imply a grotesque workload to bring AHII to release. There are more than 70 planes or so, but it looks to me they had to remodel EVERYTHING...
I say HT brings it on when he's ready.
Even if you're right, maybe he's just teasing? ;)
If not we'll know soon enough.
-
Thanx for the pics! :D
Looks great :)
-
Originally posted by 2Hawks
the message "Missing Shape BOMB" would greatly imply a grotesque workload to bring AHII to release. There are more than 70 planes or so, but it looks to me they had to remodel EVERYTHING...
I say HT brings it on when he's ready.
Funny what that seems to say to everyone else. To me it says the bomb shape is missing. Hell, maybe the bomb shapes are the last thing to do. *ShruG*
At the same time, I don't see it saying that AHII will, without a doubt, be released by it's deadline.
And now for a blatant digression ....
Of course, frankly scarlet, I don't really give a damn. I mean, I think it'll be neat, but most ya'll act like the game we got now doesn't feed the addiction. Some of yas seem to think that AHII will fix things that can't be coded away (players playing or acting certain ways). I mean ... TOD is still way down the road, and even that may not be the Nirvana some think it will be if they're looking for HT to fix what is really just pretty much personal problems. As for me, the game's fine. I ain't lookin for a miracle upgrade to fix any problems. :D
*(Ahem .... just sayin'. Don't get twisted cause this really ain't about you unless you want it to be.) ;)
-
Looking great............ as the panel work is going to be quite detailed
Yes I agree-the cockpits are a lot more detailed now, but they still have that cartoony look:(
-
Originally posted by Tilt
Looking great............ as the panel work is going to be quite detailed is there any chance of the cannon bulge in the wing being on the panel behind the cannon rather than some where between cannon and fuselage.
Experts will correct me but i believe early MkIX's had a big fat "c" bulge and later MkIX's had a thinner bulge to the left or the right side of the panel which is more common.
After posting this note, Tilt went out and got anal.
Sakai
-
Are the Spiraling Tracers supposed to be modeled after Real WW11 tracers?
I thought those Gun Cam films from Discorvery Wings just made it look that way. :P
Thanks
-
After posting this note, Tilt went out and got anal.
was he pitching or catching? Never mind I dont want to know
strk
-
quick, someone post a picture of a player puking wine from every orifice!
-
Originally posted by strk
was he pitching or catching? Never mind I dont want to know
strk
I hadn't considered that excepting the whole fascination with "bulges" in "just the exact right places" thing does speak of a man who flies Pink Spitfires for the vaunted Fire Island Air Force does it not?
;-)
Sakai
-
'NO HAND HOLD'
Dag nabbit!
-
Originally posted by Sakai
I hadn't considered that excepting the whole fascination with "bulges" in "just the exact right places" thing does speak of a man who flies Pink Spitfires for the vaunted Fire Island Air Force does it not?
;-)
Sakai
Even worse I fly Lavochkins.............
but leave my haemeroids out of this :p
-
No hand hold sure, but it doesnt mean no cup holder :-)
Looking forwards to AHII.
-
muckmaw said:
Having never seen a real tracer trail...I'll have to take your word for it that this is what they look like.
I never have, either, and I've shot many different MGs. I've also been shot at by a bunch of Soviet-bloc MGs, and they didn't leave smoke trails, either. All I've seen in real life has been the fire of the tracer element itself. The recent war with Iraq was all on TV--how many smoke trails did you see?
The only context in which I can remember ever seeing smoke trails is in guncam film from the early war, like the BoB. Brit tracer of that vintage, at least, left spiral smoke trails exactly as you see in these shots, although I can't recall seeing it in German film of the same vintage. But certainly by later in the war, German guncam film doesn't show the smoke, and I can't think of any US guncam flim that does. And this applies to film from ground battles and light ack vs. air attack as well.
So it seems to me that smoke trails existed early in the war, at least for the Brits. But it didn't take long for everybody to develop smokeless tracers, which is what we still have today.
-
But hell, they look cool.
-
I remember a very vivid clip of a German fighter tearing the hell out of a B-17. He seemed to be taking his sweet time about doing it aswell. Surely you guys know which one Im talking about? As far as Allied gun film, I just happned to catch "Midway" on the other night on dont recall any distinct smoke trails. Wasnt looking though. Wonder if the tracers can be modeled for different guns or is that a little overboard?
-
Just watched a discovery wings program. Titled gunships showed gun cams from stukas and il2's both had spiral smoke trails.
-
Originally posted by Lazerus
But hell, they look cool.
I mentioned this at the con and I'll say it again... the tracers remind me of spiderman's webbing :)
I dont get to enjoy the goodness though, I fly without tracers =]
-
I guess the smoketrails help a lot with aiming for some people, since its impossible to perceive depth on a monitor. So it might be a gameplay concession.
As for spirals... I guess a lot of people dont take the inevitable shaking of the guncamera (from the vibration of the plane) into account. On a lot of gunfootage the tracers appear as little dumbels or dashes, which comes from the camera shaking in its mounting. Thats what could make smoketrails appear as snaking lines.
Then again the rounds rotate as they leave the barrel, so especially the larger calibers could leave a spiraling smoketrail. One would have to ask a veteran about that, I guess...
Looking forward to AHII,
Litjan
1.Hessische Freibierstaffel
-
Great pics!
looking forward to AH2
but next time please get that ugly grey fly off the camera lens before taking pictures!;)
-
Originally posted by Tilt
Looking great............ as the panel work is going to be quite detailed is there any chance of the cannon bulge in the wing being on the panel behind the cannon rather than some where between cannon and fuselage.
Experts will correct me but i believe early MkIX's had a big fat "c" bulge and later MkIX's had a thinner bulge to the left or the right side of the panel which is more common.
In case Tilt was pitching.. I'm catching....
The Spit IX has a mix of weapon ordnance, if you take the 20mm cannons and 4 .303's that is a "c" wing, in the c wing the cannon is inboard in the gun bay and the bulge should be inboard on the gunbay access panel. The 4 x .303's are in the outer gunbays
If you take the 20mm cannons and 2 x .50's that is an "e" wing, on the e wing the the cannon AND the .50 cal are in the same gun bay, here the cannon is outboard and the .50 MG is inboard therefore the bulge is outboard on the gunbay access panel (and it was smaller).
this is modelled in AH as you can see when you do the convergance settings on a MkIX, however, as there is only 1 spitfire "model" the cannons are always shown outboard.
When the .50's were used the outer (.303) gunbays had sealed panels.
Witch
(see you at the Con' tilt, I'll bring my heameroid cream :)
-
You mean that ugly shaped thingy with brit markings Pooh?
-
Originally posted by Bullethead
I've also been shot at by a bunch of Soviet-bloc MGs, and they didn't leave smoke trails, either. All I've seen in real life has been the fire of the tracer element itself.
So it seems to me that smoke trails existed early in the war, at least for the Brits. But it didn't take long for everybody to develop smokeless tracers, which is what we still have today.
I too have had the privilege of seeing tracers (inbound and outbound) and IIRC (from the bottom of my trench) there were NO smoke trails.
I've seen some smoke trails in gun camera footage, however... IMHO I think the smoke trails we see in gun camera footage could well be caused by condensation from the heat of the phosphorus causing a smoke trail, perhaps we only see it in gun films taken at High altitude?
The spiralling trail is from the shaking camera, as bullets don't rotate like that in flight.
In AH I think the most realistic way to display tracers would be to have the bright yellow of the tracer rounds but NOT the smoke trail.
As my shooting instructor used to say at the MG range...
"Please remember that tracer rounds are lighter than the other “normal” bullets being fired (as the Phos’ burns off) so they tend to fall less than the other rounds, the further out you go from the gun the more noticeable this is".
:)
-
Originally posted by Nilsen10
You mean that ugly shaped thingy with brit markings Pooh?
the very thing!
its blocking my view!
-
take a look at the gun cam footage at this site (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/actualguncamfootagesix.htm) for a good look at hi and lo alt tracers
-
Well. A "Hollywood" or a real effect it doesn't matter much to me anymore. I've conceded the fight to the windmill ;)
However IMO you can't knock the AH tracer smoke without also taking up the issue of hearing external sounds in flight.
Westy
-
The (i'm guessing) high alt tracers in that footage definitely looked.. um.. fluffier.. :lol
These look wirey... not too pleasing to look at, either
Not whining, just pointin that out..
-
Originally posted by blackwitch
I've seen some smoke trails in gun camera footage, however... IMHO I think the smoke trails we see in gun camera footage could well be caused by condensation from the heat of the phosphorus causing a smoke trail, perhaps we only see it in gun films taken at High altitude?
The spiralling trail is from the shaking camera, as bullets don't rotate like that in flight.
I'll agree with the smoke trails being high alt.
But, a bullet DOES rotate and wobble in flight which would cause the spiralling trail. No bullet flys absolutely true.
-
Originally posted by NHawk
But, a bullet DOES rotate and wobble in flight which would cause the spiralling trail. No bullet flys absolutely true.
Rounds Rotate for sure, unless the barrel has no rifling but, in my experience, wobble usually occurs in smaller calibre rounds after they've travelled some distance, in fact it's more of a "tumbling".
I still think a lot of the spiralling tracer in the gun films is generated by the camera.
perhaps, like the sound effects, we need options for tracer, more than we have now..
Tracers OFF
Tracer rounds
Tracer rounds and smoke
Witch
-
Originally posted by Bullethead
But it didn't take long for everybody to develop smokeless tracers, which is what we still have today.
The phospherous in tracer rounds will generate smoke, perhaps it is accentuated at alt? or it could be the earlier war films that have the most smoke?
:D
-
The tracers you're looking at are recently fired rounds. If you look at the last pic in the series of the P51 firing at the runway, you see the after effect. That is, the smoke expands considerably more.
This effect going from the wiry spirals to the much more dense tracer smoke most likely will be in under a second to a second, ya know, for the 'wow' factor.
Looks pretty good to me, realistic or not.
-
Looks like it was written in Basic by a PUTZ!
-
I never have, either, and I've shot many different MGs. I've also been shot at by a bunch of Soviet-bloc MGs, and they didn't leave smoke trails, either. All I've seen in real life has been the fire of the tracer element itself. The recent war with Iraq was all on TV--how many smoke trails did you see?
The only context in which I can remember ever seeing smoke trails is in guncam film from the early war, like the BoB. Brit tracer of that vintage, at least, left spiral smoke trails exactly as you see in these shots, although I can't recall seeing it in German film of the same vintage. But certainly by later in the war, German guncam film doesn't show the smoke, and I can't think of any US guncam flim that does. And this applies to film from ground battles and light ack vs. air attack as well.
So it seems to me that smoke trails existed early in the war, at least for the Brits. But it didn't take long for everybody to develop smokeless tracers, which is what we still have today.
Bullethead
I agree. I've shot plenty of rounds through an M-2 and never noticed a smoke "trail." Plenty of smoke around the gun, bright tracers, a dusting of unburnt powder crackling its way down the barrel at night and the tracer element occasionally popping out on impact and sometimes in flight down range. Of course, this was at sea level using modern ammunition.
The only time I ever actually saw a spiral was when a barrel was shot-out and the spirals were "huge" - a foot or more and getting larger as the round went down range it seemed.
-
guys remember, the trail ur talking about in RL isnt really a smoke trail as much as a contrail. the bullet is HOT and the air it is passing through is VERY cold, as the bullet travels it leave the contail much like high flying planes do with thier engine exhaust.
u wont see the trail shooting guns on the ground cause the air
is ALOT warmer then @ 30k.
whels
Originally posted by Charon
I agree. I've shot plenty of rounds through an M-2 and never noticed a smoke "trail." Plenty of smoke around the gun, bright tracers, a dusting of unburnt powder crackling its way down the barrel at night and the tracer element occasionally popping out on impact and sometimes in flight down range. Of course, this was at sea level using modern ammunition.
The only time I ever actually saw a spiral was when a barrel was shot-out and the spirals were "huge" - a foot or more and getting larger as the round went down range it seemed.
-
whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiine!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
guys remember, the trail ur talking about in RL isnt really a smoke trail as much as a contrail. the bullet is HOT and the air it is passing through is VERY cold, as the bullet travels it leave the contail much like high flying planes do with thier engine exhaust.
u wont see the trail shooting guns on the ground cause the air
is ALOT warmer then @ 30k.
whels
My understanding of contrails is that it is the heated water vapor in the exhaust cooling and condensing. I don't think a tracer produces water vapor (maybe it does)... but... I'm certainly open to an atmospheric explination.
However, I don't much care either way, and this was just an observation (not a whine, because I could really care less if it's corrected, unlike the NEED TO ADD A KI84!!!!! :o :( :rolleyes: :mad: :confused: )... :) I had noted the same thing about a year ago with the current smoke. It does look cool and serves as an aiming aid and various LW and british aircraft had similar tracers at various point in the war. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, though at some point it might be a nice option to turn off for accuracy if you really wanted to in a scenario or something.
Charon
-
Gotta say I like what I see here. Hope to be playinig the new version soon.:cool:
-
Originally posted by whels
guys remember, the trail ur talking about in RL isnt really a smoke trail as much as a contrail. the bullet is HOT and the air it is passing through is VERY cold, as the bullet travels it leave the contail much like high flying planes do with thier engine exhaust.
u wont see the trail shooting guns on the ground cause the air
is ALOT warmer then @ 30k.
whels
Whels is absolutley correct. Couple of points, you can have contrails at any altitude. Most wwII gun camera footage has either smoke or vapour trails coming off the round.
Whether you're 500ft or 50'000ft up, rounds can and will produce visible trails. If you're at 300mph, it adds to the compression of the air around the bullet. Something to think about.
And yes, if you fire a lot of rounds from a MG, over 100 yards the bullets tumble hense the spirling you see.
-
Whether you're 500ft or 50'000ft up, rounds can and will produce visible trails. If you're at 300mph, it adds to the compression of the air around the bullet. Something to think about.
Under what conditions? I've fired a lot of rounds, military and civilian, and been on a lot of ranges when a lot of other people were firing rounds, and never noticed this. There is usually smoke at the firing point, and dust at the impact area and not a whole lot in between.
And yes, if you fire a lot of rounds from a MG, over 100 yards the bullets tumble hense the spirling you see.
Would you clarify this statement? Tumble as in end over end? 100 yards? what does an end over end tumble have to do with a spiral?
Charon
-
Originally posted by Charon
Under what conditions? I've fired a lot of rounds, military and civilian, and been on a lot of ranges when a lot of other people were firing rounds, and never noticed this. There is usually smoke at the firing point, and dust at the impact area and not a whole lot in between.
Would you clarify this statement? Tumble as in end over end? 100 yards? what does an end over end tumble have to do with a spiral?
Charon
the trail is a spiral because as the bullet travels it is rotating due
to the barrel's rifling, as the trail forms at the back of the bullet it causes it to swirl behind it.
whels
-
the trail is a spiral because as the bullet travels it is rotating due
to the barrel's rifling, as the trail forms at the back of the bullet it causes it to swirl behind it.
Right, which is far different, in fact ballistically the opposite, of a tumble. Ive seen the spiral smoke effect in the German/Brit guncam film, and an extreme sprial effect from tracers leaving the barrel (the tracer itself, not the smoke) of a shot-out M2 .50 machine gun on a weapons range at Ft. McCoy Wisc. It's been over 10 years since I sent .50 rounds down range, but if smoke trails were there they they were marginal at best and not anything close to the old or new effects in AH.
Hey, I'm open to an atmospheric explination. I have no reason to think it is impossible. I've even seen high altitude smoke trails from F-86 gun camera footage in Korea. It's quite possible I never fired an M2 in the proper environment to produce the effect (though I have fired the weapon in cold, moist winter conditions). I'm just curious about the specific mechanism and atmospheric conditions required since contrails are linked to water vapor that is formed as part of combustion in a jet or piston engine. [maybe, the bullet compresses and heats moist air as it travels which is then sucked into the low pressure area in the bullet wake (more pronounced maybe at 40,000 ft) where it then expands and cools to the dew point? perhaps accelerated by the nuclei given off by the burning tracer element.]
Charon
-
Originally posted by Charon
Right, which is far different, in fact ballistically the opposite, of a tumble. Ive seen the spiral smoke effect in the German/Brit guncam film, and an extreme sprial effect from tracers leaving the barrel (the tracer itself, not the smoke) of a shot-out M2 .50 machine gun on a weapons range at Ft. McCoy Wisc. It's been over 10 years since I sent .50 rounds down range, but if smoke trails were there they they were marginal at best and not anything close to the old or new effects in AH.
Hey, I'm open to an atmospheric explination. I have no reason to think it is impossible. I've even seen high altitude smoke trails from F-86 gun camera footage in Korea. It's quite possible I never fired an M2 in the proper environment to produce the effect (though I have fired the weapon in cold, moist winter conditions). I'm just curious about the specific mechanism and atmospheric conditions required since contrails are linked to water vapor that is formed as part of combustion in a jet or piston engine. [maybe, the bullet compresses and heats moist air as it travels which is then sucked into the low pressure area in the bullet wake (more pronounced maybe at 40,000 ft) where it then expands and cools to the dew point? perhaps accelerated by the nuclei given off by the burning tracer element.]
Charon
ive noticed in gun cams, smoke trails/contrails of bullets during high alt dogfights, but i dont think ive seen any trails in Guncams
when straffing ground targets.
i really think the effect only shows when the bullets are traveling in the sub zero temps of high alt fighting.
whels
-
blackwitch said:
I've seen some smoke trails in gun camera footage, however... IMHO I think the smoke trails we see in gun camera footage could well be caused by condensation from the heat of the phosphorus causing a smoke trail, perhaps we only see it in gun films taken at High altitude?
Hey Lee, good to see you ;)
But...
If the smoke trail was an altitude effect, wouldn't it have been evident through the whole war? IOW, any time tracers were fired in the "tracer contrail belt", you'd see the trails. But as far as I know, the trails are only visible in Brit films from circa 1940, regardless of altitude.
The spiralling trail is from the shaking camera, as bullets don't rotate like that in flight.
I disagree with this. In those few films where there are smoke trails, the spiral is evident even in the stills from individual frames. If the spiral was an illusion from shaking, it would be seen as a spiral only when watching the whole film moving. But each frame would be blurred 1 way or the other, not both ways at once. So seeing the spiral in a single frame indicates to me that the spiral was really caused by the bullet's rotation.
In AH I think the most realistic way to display tracers would be to have the bright yellow of the tracer rounds but NOT the smoke trail.
Agree.
-
There is a type of MG round that is used in WW2 aircombat that hasn't been brought up that could be the one making all the smoke. If I remember correctly incinderary rounds were part of the mix in addition to the regular and tracer ammo.
-
Point of order! :)
Contrails have nothing to do with exhaust gasses.
Wings (and props) work by messing around with air pressure. Wings create a low pressure area over them selves; and a high pressure area beneath them selves. Props create a low pressure area in front of them selves, and a high pressure area behind them selves.
The amount of water air can support is linked to temperature; which in turn is linked to pressure. If the pressure suddenly drops; all other things being equal; the temperature will drop; and that given volume of air will not be able to support it's prior water content; the water will condense out.
You can see contrails forming at the wing tips in flight in hi G manouvers; and, if the conditions are right; coming off the wings of a modern F1 car.
-
Germans used smoke tracers, don't know if some of the allies did too. Watch this guncam movie and you'll notice that when an allied plane is being fired upon you clearly see the spiraling smoke tracers.
http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/actualguncamfootageone.htm
-
i Guess my main concern is whether or not the bullets themselves actually spiraled ? Or is it just the smoke?
If the bllets spiraled....and if HT models this in the game........, rofl.....you thought targeting was hard in online envirionment before? :D
-
http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/ah2ss/11.jpg
this pic (one with smoke trails) got me thinking. is it possible to make the smoke trails discipate or be disturbed by the aircraft?
I would have thought first the bullets accelerate away from the aircraft leaving a smoke trail but then as the aircraft flys through the smoke it would be sucked into the turbulance around the plane and be sort of stopped or blown about by the fast airflow over the wings.at least until the aircraft stops flying on the same course as the bullets.
In that pic you can see smoke trails behind the plane which i think makes them look a bit unreal.Similar to tracers in AH as it is now.
would it be a humungous task to code out the smoke trails behind the aircraft?? or EVEN BETTER how about when an aircraft goes through any smoke trails they break through and spread or discipate it.
Imagine the high alt fights with all those bullet smoke and contrail whisps where they are broken up as planes fly through. It would look fantastic and be something completely new to Flight sims.
just had a thought.....
perhaps we could see smoke passing our cockpits?
if this is too much programming to model in realtime 3d around your plane maybe HTC could use a sort of 'scripted' bit of graphics that plays on the users end and shows smoke around the screen his end and then stops playing once smoke is passed, to the user it would look like they had flown through a 3d smoke cloud but really it would be a 2d trick to fool the eye.
would this save bandwidth etc? as AH is now if we enter a cloud we get a grey area which looks kinda weird. what if it was coded so that whenever a player enters dence smoke (not bullets trails) or clouds etc it creates a trigger that plays a pre rendered picture of clouds racing by the cockpit on the users programme or 'his end'. It wouldnt need any server messages other than 'player in cloud' or 'player out of cloud'.The users computer would do the rest.
would or could this work? is it helpfull ? :)
-
Originally posted by Mugzeee
i Guess my main concern is whether or not the bullets themselves actually spiraled ? Or is it just the smoke?
If the bllets spiraled....and if HT models this in the game........, rofl.....you thought targeting was hard in online envirionment before? :D
The bullets didn't spiral but they did spin, just like bullets from any rifled barrel.
-
Forget the spiral/spinning/smoke controversy...
How about we start with something like a working AH2 with good-looking cockpits, external modeling and terrains?
IMHO, all the effects eye candy in the world is useless if HTC can't get back to the point where game and terrain bugs are being fixed and additional vehicles being added.
I think we're still a long way away from that point. Of course, I have no information to substantiate my opinion.
As an old guy who's been around the business world for a more than a few years, it smells like HTC is in over their heads with this project. I trust hitech and crew are more than competent technically, but business management is a different skill set.
I keep reading rose notes about how HTC is a small but efficient team. Sometimes staying and thinking small is wrong. The project determines the team size and if sub-contracting should be utilized.
I also read how great HTC is at customer service. I haven't seen any customer service this year (except for Skuzzy's excellent technical answers on the forum). Customer service is only as good as the last episode.
The vast majority of $180/year subscribers don't go to the con and have never met the staff, so impressions are based on any posts or responses (or lack thereof) on this bulletin board. If you want to see a textbook example of poor customer relations, this board is it.
I have no doubt that HTC will continue to thrive because it's a niche market with almost fanatical subscribers. But, HTC could do better in communication. Just because you don't have to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't do it out of professionalism and regard for the customer.
All this leads me to a greater question: If hitech is ever out of commission, does all development cease?
Based on the lack of even a cursory note or two over the last year, I have no choice but to guess that it's never even been considered.
This all reminds me of the old joke:
"We can't get any paperwork done because the phones are ringing off the hook with customer complaints. What should we do?"
"Stop answering the phone."
-
I think it's kinda obvious why the smoke spiraled from tracers. The substance on the bullet didn't burn exactly uniformly or wasn't uniformly distributed throughout the bullet. That caused one side of the bullet to produce more smoke. The spin creates the spiral.
Thought about it some more, guess just the vortex from a spinning bullet would produce a smoke spiral from even a uniformly smoking round.
-
Point of order!
Contrails have nothing to do with exhaust gasses.
Wings (and props) work by messing around with air pressure. Wings create a low pressure area over them selves; and a high pressure area beneath them selves. Props create a low pressure area in front of them selves, and a high pressure area behind them selves.
The amount of water air can support is linked to temperature; which in turn is linked to pressure. If the pressure suddenly drops; all other things being equal; the temperature will drop; and that given volume of air will not be able to support it's prior water content; the water will condense out.
You can see contrails forming at the wing tips in flight in hi G manouvers; and, if the conditions are right; coming off the wings of a modern F1 car.
You are not quite correct, though this effect is often called a contrail in comman usage. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration contrails are:
A contrail is the condensation trail that is left behind by a passing jet plane. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature. Vapor pressure is just a fancy term for the amount of pressure that is exerted by water vapor itself (as opposed to atmospheric, or barometric, pressure which is due to the weight of the entire atmosphere above you). The mixing occurs directly behind the plane due to the turbulence generated by the engine. If condensation (conversion from a gas to a liquid) occurs, then a contrail becomes visible. Since air temperatures at these high atmospheric levels are very cold (generally colder than -40 F), only a small amount of liquid is necessary for condensation to occur. Water is a normal byproduct of combustion in engines.
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/Flagstaff/science/contrail.htm
The wingtip vortice process you describe is most often associated with take offs and landings, high g maneuvers in high humidity and tornadoes, not lumbering bomber streams with a thick cloud of condensed vapor forming exactly behind each of the four engines :)
Now, whether or not a bullet traveling though the right set of conditions can create this effect is still open to debate (because no on has presented authoritative material to support either position). FWIW I don't doubt it's possible (F-86 guncamera film at high alts in Korea), but probably much more likely over 30,000 feet. Anyway, "smoke trails" is just a minor issue that doesn't impact my gameplay or perception of the game at all.
Charon
-
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/ah2ss/11.jpg)
I dont know about some of you, but the tracers to me look a little "weak" and "thin" It kinda looks like an underwater pistol was fired underwater and thats kinda the bullet and its motion through the water. I think it needs to be fatter in my opinion (the smoke/tracer effect) It just looks too corny to me. If I am wrong, please correct me.
-
you whiners are probably the reason why HTC rarely posts info or screenshots of AH2.
You are never happy, why not wait 'til the finished article before picking it apart?
-
bcause they want to get there whines outta the way now that way they wont have to waste time they could spend playing the game whining about it ;)
-
Mak333 check the last pic in the set, you'll see the tracer smoke as it disperses. What you're seeing in the pic that you posted is probably a fraction of a second i.e. not the total effect. Hard to say what it'll look like without seeing it in motion.
-
Yes that's nice, but the truce is I was waiting or something better...the plane and scene lightning is basic, the ground textures except the houses are the same, I was even asking myself if the first is really AH2 and not AH1...anyway I hope the final version will make me lie...see you round guys
-
:rolleyes: You wonder why HTC are reluctant to post screenshots when this is the reaction? I tell you, I have seen AH2 in the flesh at the Con, and these screenshots don't really do it justice - it looked fantastic! :D
-
Originally posted by Flossy
:rolleyes: You wonder why HTC are reluctant to post screenshots when this is the reaction? I tell you, I have seen AH2 in the flesh at the Con, and these screenshots don't really do it justice - it looked fantastic! :D
flossy i understand you feeling this sort of talk is whining but honestly now consider the fact that these people HAVENT seen it in the flesh. I havent seen it running apart from a very dark and basic looking video filmed over dales shoulder.
I admit it looked great but then im an avid fan, some of the posters in here have heard and seen nothing but these pics and even I was a tad dissapointed by them. I really decided to hope they were just not doing it justice and as i said im going to wait until i see it in motion before i decide.
This claim that a few people questioning what they see in a screen shot causing a company to stop posting seems a bit rediculous to me. Instead of HTC staff developing thicker skin and being able to take any complaint as proffesionals do, it seems most in here consider them almost 'diva types' like some easily upset immature popstar.sheesh cant they take the bad with the good like the rest of the working world?
Comon! they are adults and have been developing games for years.They have , like us seen the games that impress with new graphics or new gameplay and im sure they must know what looks good and will impress customers by now.So a few arent too impressed? so what? we cant tell them to shut up just because we dont agree.We all pay the same money aand to me each and every customer desrves equal 'air time' to air their veiws.
To be honest I think its the only way to improve.If everyone turns into 'yes men' then the game wouldnt need an update.
Having said that flossy since you HAVE seen it running and YOU say it looks great IM prepared to take your word and wait it out in hope youre right :) I dont however consider customers veiws whines. I think its rude to claim they always are. You certainly wouldnt say that to a customer that came to see you face to face would you?
-
Very true, Hazed.
I understand HTC offers great customer support, they are fine people and have a great product.
This does not make them impervious to criticism, though.
People should be allowed to voice their honest opinion about HTC without getting flamed to no end.
-
I'd also like to add that I would HATE for my posts to be considered "whines".... the opposite could only be true of me, if I didn't (really) like AH (1 or 2) I'd just leave and play some other Sim' I wouldn't bemoan it.
My posts (I would consider) were more observations compared to what I've seen in Gun camera films and from my own experience of firearms and I have to go from the few screenshots as I aint sen it in the flesh yet.
However one thing that has come out of this thread is that several people feel strongly enough to comment, that's got to be a good thing for any Sim . people caring enough to offer opinions... and I'm just chucking in my ha'penneth worth of opinion...for what it's worth.. ;)
The mention of "incendiary rounds" is something I've no experience of and this may well be something we're seeing in camera films..still this all gives us something to do between logging on and sighing when it goes straight to the arena selection screen instead of downloading an update :(
p.s. I still reckon the option of tracer bullet = ON and tracer smoke = OFF would be nice, but I'll wait and see what the end product looks like.
:D
-
Originally posted by hazed-
I dont however consider customers veiws whines. I think its rude to claim they always are. You certainly wouldnt say that to a customer that came to see you face to face would you?
Where have I mentioned the word "whine" in that post? I was simply saying that having seen the real thing at the Con, the screenshots didn't do it full justice. What's wrong with that?
-
What were the specs of the machine running it at the con?
-
I reserve judgment till i see the game in action.
When ever that will be;)
-
OK everybody...take a deep breath. It's only a game. If it's good play it, if it sucks take up golf...
Magoo
-
golf sucks
-
Originally posted by whels
guys remember, the trail ur talking about in RL isnt really a smoke trail as much as a contrail. the bullet is HOT and the air it is passing through is VERY cold, as the bullet travels it leave the contail much like high flying planes do with thier engine exhaust.
u wont see the trail shooting guns on the ground cause the air
is ALOT warmer then @ 30k.
whels
All I know about smoke trails is what my dad has told me; which is there weren't any.
Once, however, in practice the conditions were right for contrails, which were a significantly better method of tracking rounds. They had some fool (probably a Marine) towing a target, which the student gunners would shoot at. Each student had bullets with different colored paint on them, so when they hit the target some of the paint would rub off and they could count who had how many hits.
Dad, being (oddly enough) a lot like me used the contrails to aim his fire at the tow wire. Sure enough, the wire parted, the target fell, and practice was over for the day. When they checked the wire it was his color (blue) that separated it. I guess he didn't enjoy being ice cold and cramped in his Emerson turret at o'dark hundred when he was 18.
He once commented he had about 20 hours in the B29 and entirely TOO MANY hours in a B24. I'd pay money to do something he learned to hate...of course the deal is nobody is allowed to shoot at me...
-
Originally posted by mrblack
I reserve judgment till i see the game in action.
When ever that will be;)
This is the only post thats makes any sense !!
-
LOL! That's it .... I'm gonna continue to fly with tracers off. Just so wondering if what I'm seeing isn't perfectly depicted or not doesn't drive me to techno-nerdism. :D
-
Golf Sucks
^ Bettin there is a full bag of clubs sittin at the bottom of some lake with Arlo's name tag on it :D
:cool:
-
Not a full bag. Ahem.
-
Originally posted by whels
guys remember, the trail ur talking about in RL isnt really a smoke trail as much as a contrail. the bullet is HOT and the air it is passing through is VERY cold, as the bullet travels it leave the contail much like high flying planes do with thier engine exhaust.
u wont see the trail shooting guns on the ground cause the air
is ALOT warmer then @ 30k.
whels
whels, sorry M8 you are wrong this one, you will see smoke from the tracer rounds,
check this film, I would say they are about 150-200 feet of the deck.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~heater1/breda.avi
-
The following link includes some films that clearly indicate the spiral smoke/contrails.
Actual Gun Cam Footage (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/actualguncamfootageone.htm)
-
Heater, why does it seem the shells are detonating around the airframe? I'm seeing shells contact the plane with obvious parts flying off and large flashes... but there are also smaller detonations and flashes slightly above the right wing.
I know some 20mm had fuses, but the distance between both aircraft looks awfully short. After how many seconds were typical exploding shells supposed to ignite?
-
After watching it again, I'm thinking those shells missed their target and are a lot further in front of the enemy aircraft.
The angle gives a strange false illusion of depth. It appears small explosions are very close, just above the right wing... when in reality they're larger explosions far off :)
ahh yes..
-
Octavius,
I think those air bursts are from small caliber flak. At least they look like flak bursts.
Falcon
-
Originally posted by Furious
The following link includes some films that clearly indicate the spiral smoke/contrails.
Actual Gun Cam Footage (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/actualguncamfootageone.htm)
Actual gun cam footage showing spiral smoke trails that look very much like HT trails. That cant be say it aint so all these guys that have never flown or shot wwII vintage aircraft nor amunition saying that they didnt have spiral trails are all talk and no walk cant be true. The guncam footage is obviously incorrect its fake it has to be.
-
:confused:
Sorry I just read the forum.
Correct me if I am wrong which of course I probably am but werent the tracers in ww2 just wood solid or hollow tips? I thought that when the shell came out of the barrel the wood started to smoke and the rifling in the barrel made the bullet spin making the spiral effect? It is what I have always thought, if I am wrong PLEASE correct me. Id like to know how it works.
:lol sometimes I wonder about me
BTW HTC WONDERFUL JOB!!!I <> YOU ALL!!!
-
Originally posted by whels
guys remember, the trail ur talking about in RL isnt really a smoke trail as much as a contrail. the bullet is HOT and the air it is passing through is VERY cold, as the bullet travels it leave the contail much like high flying planes do with thier engine exhaust.
u wont see the trail shooting guns on the ground cause the air
is ALOT warmer then @ 30k.
whels
Only read the first part of the thread so forgive me if this has been commented on...
Contrails are caused by water vapour condensing in cold air. This occurs because cold air cannot support as much water vapour as hot air. Pour water vapour (which is invisible) out of an exhaust at high alt and the cold air cannot support the excess moisture so it condenses into water droplets (which is visible as a contrail).
A hot dry bullet does not add any moisture to the air and thus will not cause condensation and hence it will not form contrails. The trails behind bullets must be smoke from the burning tracer material.
On the other hand, supersonic shock waves around the bullets can form temporary trails of condensation because of the pressure changes taking place (much like condensation that trails behind a wing when a plane if flying on a humid day) but they aren't contrails...
Anyway, who cares. Spiral tracer smoke looks cool, nuff said. :cool:
-
Originally posted by Seeker
Point of order! :)
Contrails have nothing to do with exhaust gasses.
Wings (and props) work by messing around with air pressure. Wings create a low pressure area over them selves; and a high pressure area beneath them selves. Props create a low pressure area in front of them selves, and a high pressure area behind them selves.
The amount of water air can support is linked to temperature; which in turn is linked to pressure. If the pressure suddenly drops; all other things being equal; the temperature will drop; and that given volume of air will not be able to support it's prior water content; the water will condense out.
You can see contrails forming at the wing tips in flight in hi G manouvers; and, if the conditions are right; coming off the wings of a modern F1 car.
Wrong. This pressure change is a temporary effect and the air reverts back to a near original temperature and pressure almost immediately and the condensed water returns to vapour form quickly. The moisture coming off wings during maneuvering and F1 cars is only seen briefly... See above post.
-
Some guncam footage showing various tracers and smoke trails:
Guncamera - tracers (http://virtualpilots.webz.cz/link.htm) ( Microsoft MPEG-4 Codec V3)
Notice:
- first two clips shows only tracers, smoke trails are minimal or none
- then are the clips showing various smoke trails (notice footage from Bf110 cockpit showing very huge smoke trails from its cannons)
- last color clips are from USNF planes in Pacific, the tracers are clearly visible but smoke trails are very small or none (notice the rounds bouncing from sea level in last clip).
I think the appearance of smoke trails depend on type of weapon and type of ammo and can be very different.
-
Originally posted by empire2
:confused:
Sorry I just read the forum.
Correct me if I am wrong which of course I probably am but werent the tracers in ww2 just wood solid or hollow tips? I thought that when the shell came out of the barrel the wood started to smoke and the rifling in the barrel made the bullet spin making the spiral effect? It is what I have always thought, if I am wrong PLEASE correct me. Id like to know how it works.
:lol sometimes I wonder about me
BTW HTC WONDERFUL JOB!!!I <> YOU ALL!!!
Try hollowed out bullets with highly flamable phospherous in them ;)
-
Realistic or not, what the AHII trails remind me of is the Matrix bullet-time effect..! :D
Having watched the gun-cam videos posted, though...
Real trails are 'softer'/not so stringy. Of course, programming that would likely result in a big frame-rate hit.
~EDantes
-
Smoke/Haze/Soot are a secondary effect of light being reflected/refracted/absorbed by microscopic particles in the atmosphere. When a bullet ejects these particles they have an initial velocity or spin corresponding to that of the bullet. Due to their low mass they rapidly decelerate and disperse. As the rotational component retards, this deceleration and dispersal becomes a spiral.
-romad
-
holy **** you sound like a sceintist or something it scaring me lol:eek: :eek: :eek: