Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: -sudz- on September 24, 2003, 12:29:31 PM
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It looks like an Oklahoma judge has ruled that the FTC doesn't have the authority to establish and enforce a national Do Not Call list. Telemarketers have won the day.
http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/24/technology/ftc_donotcall/index.htm?cnn=yes
I really don't understand this - it may not be within the FTC's power, but since we own the phone and pay for the service, don't telemarkers fall under the same guidelines as trespassers?
It's illegal for anyone to abuse your property whether it's your car, bicycle, or land. They used to call people who messed with your stuff vandals. The phone and the service is mine so why can strangers abuse my property?
- sudz
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I wonder if the court would prefer a class action harassment suit.
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50 million ppl overrule a backwards judge I hope..
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This is a pathetic "win" for special interests. It's a slap in the face to the 50million people who signed up for it.
While the FCC may have "technically" overstepped thier powers I seem to have always thought that the government was "By the people. For the people." It would appear to me that the FCC was only doing what was necessary to satisfy the overwhelming wish of the American public not to be harrased with sales calls and hawking of bull****e.
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Anyone know the judge's phone number? :)
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Originally posted by -sudz-
It looks like an Oklahoma judge has ruled that the FTC doesn't have the authority to establish and enforce a national Do Not Call list. Telemarketers have won the day.
http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/24/technology/ftc_donotcall/index.htm?cnn=yes
I really don't understand this - it may not be within the FTC's power, but since we own the phone and pay for the service, don't telemarkers fall under the same guidelines as trespassers?
It's illegal for anyone to abuse your property whether it's your car, bicycle, or land. They used to call people who messed with your stuff vandals. The phone and the service is mine so why can strangers abuse my property?
- sudz
Can we get rid of Spam on this premise?
Coming from a guy who used to cold call..very gently, BTW.
My business has some real A-holes in it. The type who don't take no for an answer. This is how alot of cold callers were trained. Sad, but they were the most successful. I was never like that. From a guy who built his business through cold calling...the DNC list is a GREAT idea. Kill Telemarketing, and Kill spam.There are other ways to bring in customers.
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now we just have to pray to God that JetBlue doesn't get a hold of that list!
-Sik
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-sudz-: but since we own the phone and pay for the service, don't telemarkers fall under the same guidelines as trespassers?
Your phone is like your door. Basically, anyone can knock on your front door (yard gate) while still standing on the public street. You do not have to answer or let them in but legally they are not trespassing.
miko
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and email spam?
heard the hero of CA mr davis is passing some law to outlaw it in CA
how, is beyond me...
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So what is a legal ramification of the "No Solicitation" sign. Any?
Also, I've always though the my driveway is not a public street. In order to get to my door, they have to walk my driveway and then a walkway to my door.
Is the gate/door what makes a boundary of your property? that would be weird. For example if you do not have a side gate, people would be allowed to walk into your backyard.
What if the side gate is there but it is wide open? Does this contitute a permission to enter? I doubt it.
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mietla: So what is a legal ramification of the "No Solicitation" sign. Any?
As a private owner of the premices, you are supposedely* free to set rules of behavior in your property. You can still* forbid soliciting or enforce dress code in your house, restaurant or shop. (* You are not allowed to discriminate by ethnicity, etc., or allow smoking in NYC.)
So anyone solicitin in violation of the sign can be charged with trespassing.
Is the gate/door what makes a boundary of your property? that would be weird.
That may depend on your local jurisdiction. Entering your driveway may not be considered trespassing but "No Solicitation" sign at the entrance or on the door may still apply here.
miko
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So the "Do Not Call" list is a functional equivalent of "No Solicitation" sign.
They have to be treated the same way then, with the exception that you have to be in CA (and thus in my local jurisdiction) to knock on my door, but you can know on my eDoor from other jurisdictions.
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I suppose you're right, miko, but there's got to be something in the current law (we've got libraries of laws) that makes this kind on unsolicited intrusion illegal.
How about this for any inventors out there: Create a machine, like an answering machine, with a built in menu system. When your phone rings it says "This phone is free for use by friends, family, or any other authorized callers. All others will be billed at the rate of $150/hour. Press the star key to continue."
If they don't press the '*' key they are automatically disconnected. Of course, if you press the '*' at the beginning it will put you through so that your friends don't get irritated at you.
But, even if you don't know the telemarketer or the company he works for, doesn't the fact that he pressed the '*' and accepted the charge give lawyers the right to get a hold of the phone company's records so you can find out? persuant to a legal claim or bill dodging or something?
- sudz
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Originally posted by popeye
Anyone know the judge's phone number? :)
If you find out, please let us all know won't you? ;)
I'm sure he'd just love to hear about my special pills for penal enlargement...
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I for one think the do not call list is bad.
It is and will be hurting thousands of small companys and mom and pop stores.
this will mean that the local places that cant afford to do advertising will be pushed out of buesness.
and or will have to resort to door to door sales.
what would you rather have a couple phone calls a day or a few door to door sales men a day?
I dont know about the rest of you but the only telemarketers that are bothersome are the credit cards, nonprofit and phone companys.
guess what
THEY STILL GET TO CALL!.
This is just another thing to screw the little guy with.
and a way to send more things over seas or to cananda.
telemarketing is a large buesness. in this country. thousands of people work in these call centers.
I love how all these people that complain about tech and car plants going overseas, like putting thousands more people out of
work
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lets make a list here. When a telemarketer calls you write down their phone number post it here. Then we can decide on a day and call them )(*^()*&%^$#%^#@^%$ suckers over and over and over and over. Put them out of buisness for a day. I wont even answer the phone anymore. I get no less than 10 calls a night from them rat bastages.
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when telemarketers call, if you have the time, try to keep them on the line as long as possable. they make their money playing the percentages (x sales for every y calls), most people will hang up right away if they aren't buying, so marketers can get 4 or 5 calls every minute.
if you keep them on the line for 1/2 an hour you probably cost them 150 calls (10 minutes is my personal best, but the wife is awsome, she kept MCI on the line for almost 45 minutes)
it's bussiness and bussiness is all about profit, when they realize it's unprofitable to call you the calls will stop.
BTw- on a simular note. junk mail. my wife takes those postage paid return envelopes, fills it with everything included in the mailing(even the original envelope) writes on it that she doesn't feel it's her responsability to throw away their junk, so she's returning it. and sends it back.
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My telemarketer calls dropped by at least 90% when I added "privacy manager". It blocks all calls that aren't id'd. It allows anyone to get through if they're willing to record their name and I want to talk to them.
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Yeah, I have Anonymous Call Rejection on my phone. Cuts about 99% of the telemarketers out. :D
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It is really easy to stop them.
You know the sound you get when you dial a number that is not in service? Record it, put it in the leader of your incoming message. It stops them cold.
The systems they use hear that sound and drop your number from their list so it will not be called again.
We were getting up to 30 calls a day! I did that on our answering machine and we have not gotten a call in months.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
It is really easy to stop them.
You know the sound you get when you dial a number that is not in service? Record it, put it in the leader of your incoming message. It stops them cold.
The systems they use hear that sound and drop your number from their list so it will not be called again.
We were getting up to 30 calls a day! I did that on our answering machine and we have not gotten a call in months.
can you post an wmv of this sound?
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
You know the sound you get when you dial a number that is not in service? Record it, put it in the leader of your incoming message. It stops them cold.
The systems they use hear that sound and drop your number from their list so it will not be called again.
the only problem with this is now alot of the dialers they use insted of just taking them off the list will automaticly kick the call to a rep
to "make sure" that it is a real sit tone.
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I'll have to dig it up again. It's buried on my system at home somehere.
Trell, you know the long pause you get when these nutjobs call? If the tones play during that pause, the call will drop immediately. I have not seen it fail.
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We can just register on a list and never get bothered by telemarketing people. Used to get several every week, now I get none.
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How many small businesses, and mom and pop stores, have the man power to setup a telemarketing center? I'd venture somewhere between a couple to none.
Congress has the ability to vote on this and continue the DNC list, with 50 million+ people behind it... I'd hope this would be a non issue.
Telemarketers must die, they are the root of all evil, the product of Hitler and Stalin, victory for mankind requires death to the telemarketer.
-SW
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but i also know for a fact that some call centers have set it to not listen to the sit tone.
if they find an answer machine it will mark it as an answering machine or a sit tone, it will mark these. and after 3 third time it calls this number over the course or hours or days. it will switch to a rep to make sure that it is a sit tone. or just a trick.
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Here i Norway telemarketing services are done by a few big companys that sell their services to other small and big companys.
Very few if any do the telemarketing service themselves.
Dunno how this is done in the US tho.
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Originally posted by mietla
can you post an wmv of this sound?
sit.wav (http://www.facstalk.com/files/sit.wav)
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
How many small businesses, and mom and pop stores, have the man power to setup a telemarketing center? I'd venture somewhere between a couple to none.
no those mom and pop stores are the ones who open up there local phone book and just start dialing.
they are the ones who will get hurt becasue they dont have the money to invest in a dialer that is allways updated with the current do not call list.
it will be hurting the local guys that do snow plowing and roof work. the guys that run a couple man team where there kid is helping them out by calling when he is after school.
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cool, thanks Sandman.
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I don't buy the bit about the small man (ex/ roofers, landscapers or plowmen) or Mom & Pop stores being the overall victim here Trell. I've never, ever had a call from a Mom and Pop store, a roofer or a handman. It's always been life insurance, some gimmicky get rich scheme, a time share or some other bull**** offering.
"what would you rather have a couple phone calls a day or a few door to door sales men a day? "
I don't want either. Period.
If I want a servcice or a product I ask for references (word of mouth) or I look them up in the phone book or local paper. If they can't afford that, then they can't afford to be automatically blacklisted by me and others for making unwanted, annoying phone calls.
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If you want to call Judge Lee West his number is: 405/609-5000.
MRPLUTO (something wrong with BB...had to register as new person to get in) :confused:
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It will be appealed in a higher court and be overturned, then the "Do not call" list will get even more exposure.
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I don't the bit about it being the small man (ex:roofers, landscapers or plowmen) or Mom and Pop stores being the overall victim here Trell. I've never, ever had a call from a Mom and Pop store, a roofer or a handman. It's always been life insurance, some gimmicky get rich scheme, a time share or some other bull**** offering.
what he said.
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Yet another story of a federal judge stomping all over the will of the people.
I agree with Rip, it will go through eventually with increased exposure.
What bothers me is that a federal judge, once again, over-rides the majority,and caters to the demands of another big business/special interest group. Did the FTC over step their bounds? Not sure, I was led to believe they were taking action against unrequested solicitation because of consumer complaints when they sought to compile this list.
Looks like it's time to do some surfing and see what I can dig up on this.
I have privacy director here at home but have not had a call in a long time. I tend to think if I dropped this service, my name would pop up on another list and the wolves would once again move in.
**Note for any potential political candidates out there; do away with SPAM and telemarketers and your a shoe-in in 2004 :D **
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Originally posted by Twist
Yet another story of a federal judge stomping all over the will of the people.
What bothers me is that a federal judge, once again, over-rides the majority,and caters to the demands of another big business/special interest group. Did the FTC over step their bounds? Not sure, I was led to believe they were taking action against unrequested solicitation because of consumer complaints when they sought to compile this list.
Federal judges are appointed (ie not elected) for a reason - to resist political the political pressure of the masses. While the masses want to do what's best for the masses, this is not always what's best for the country and its founding principles.
It's a judge's job to do what is right, not what is popular. If judges had done what was popular in the Brown vs Board of Ed case, we'd probably still have racially segregated schools.
It is not a judge's job to listen to the people, it is his job to ensure that the Constitution and the laws passed under the authority of the constitution are applied fairly. Likewise, his lack of political accountability (by his life tenure) should remove most big-business influences.
I'm not saying that this judge necessarily made the best call on this case. I hope he ignored the political pressure from the big business special interests as much as he ignored the political pressure from the people, and made his decision based on his best interpretation of the current laws.
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I started using a new way to discourage telemarketers. Those who are friends know I answer the phone this way and are expecting it. I simply answer it with a nonsensical business opening. Example, "Mortuary and proctology associates, we always get you in the end." About all I ever hear is the line going dead or dead silence. After a short while my dinner time became very quiet. ;)
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Originally posted by Westy
I don't buy the bit about the small man (ex/ roofers, landscapers or plowmen) or Mom & Pop stores being the overall victim here Trell. I've never, ever had a call from a Mom and Pop store, a roofer or a handman. It's always been life insurance, some gimmicky get rich scheme, a time share or some other bull**** offering.
It sounds like you get the calls that I dont get
what I mostly get is credit card calls,
companys that wanna switch my phone servise,
nonprophit companys, ie donating blood or money to the cops
and the oakland press and dretoit freepress.
(btw the only one of these that this law affects is the newpapper one. and that is only if you dont get the paper already)
Every once in a while I get seasonal calls normaly in the spring fall and winter.
.
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I just love how we need to make a law to punish people.
becasue they dont want to be bothered.
just dont answer the phone, or use a privicy director.
if you have caller id it will show as an unavailble number if it is a big telamarketing company.
you would think if everyone hated them they would not make any money.
but telamarketing is a billion dollor servise.
it helps lots of buesnisses
ok so now they cant advertise on the phone,
You dont want them to knock on your door.
so this counts out small and or seasonal buesnisses.
Next y dont weban all advertising.,.
Y dont you just shoot anyone you dont like because you dont wanna be bothered!!
(btw i know this is a stupid argument.)
but it seams like you are willing to inderectly
fire thousands of people from there jobs.
In this economy some would think it about the same as shooting them.
Any one want to show me how this will not hurt this country?
how it will not puts tens of thousans of people out of work?
how companys will not close becasue of this?
how these same jobs will NOT just be shipped overseas faster.
and guess what
YOU WILL JUST GET THE CALLS FROM SOME INDIAN INSTED OF AN AMERICIAN.
If I have a tellamarketer calling me I wannt it to be an AMERICIAN ONE
.the americian that is now out of work will just be on wellfare and unenployment on our tax dollars
becasue we put him there.
carry on with the screwing of americians
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Trust me if i could track down tele terroist I would SHOOT them:mad:
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Originally posted by Maverick
I started using a new way to discourage telemarketers. Those who are friends know I answer the phone this way and are expecting it. I simply answer it with a nonsensical business opening. Example, "Mortuary and proctology associates, we always get you in the end." About all I ever hear is the line going dead or dead silence. After a short while my dinner time became very quiet. ;)
:D :D :D
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Very cool avatar, Mr. Pugsly.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
It is really easy to stop them.
You know the sound you get when you dial a number that is not in service? Record it, put it in the leader of your incoming message. It stops them cold.
The systems they use hear that sound and drop your number from their list so it will not be called again.
We were getting up to 30 calls a day! I did that on our answering machine and we have not gotten a call in months.
LOL skuzzy your an evile man!! But I like the way you think:D
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Originally posted by Trell
I just love how we need to make a law to punish people.
becasue they dont want to be bothered.
just dont answer the phone, or use a privicy director.
if you have caller id it will show as an unavailble number if it is a big telamarketing company.
you would think if everyone hated them they would not make any money.
but telamarketing is a billion dollor servise.
it helps lots of buesnisses
ok so now they cant advertise on the phone,
You dont want them to knock on your door.
so this counts out small and or seasonal buesnisses.
Next y dont weban all advertising.,.
Y dont you just shoot anyone you dont like because you dont wanna be bothered!!
(btw i know this is a stupid argument.)
but it seams like you are willing to inderectly
fire thousands of people from there jobs.
In this economy some would think it about the same as shooting them.
Any one want to show me how this will not hurt this country?
how it will not puts tens of thousans of people out of work?
how companys will not close becasue of this?
how these same jobs will NOT just be shipped overseas faster.
and guess what
YOU WILL JUST GET THE CALLS FROM SOME INDIAN INSTED OF AN AMERICIAN.
If I have a tellamarketer calling me I wannt it to be an AMERICIAN ONE
.the americian that is now out of work will just be on wellfare and unenployment on our tax dollars
becasue we put him there.
carry on with the screwing of americians
Um 50 million people signed up to stop a couple thousand from harrassing them. There are still 100 million more out there not on the list. They must want to be called over and over again by telemarketers. Fine let them but I have a right not to be harrassed by these people AMERICAN or not I dont want to be hassled at home. If a couple thousand cant make a living harrassing the 100 million americans not on the do not call list them screw them. They aint very good at it and deserve to loose their jobs. This is not about putting people out of work it does not stop them from calling people not on the list. All it does is protect the ones that dont want to be called.
The needs of 50 million far outweighs the needs of a couple
thousand!
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When my kids were toddlers, I used to just hand the phone to them. The loved to talk and they didn't care who was on the other side.
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Any of you guys watch "Crank Yankers?" You can learn a lot from that show. I like the guy that burps while he's talking. Of course, there are several other techniques. Another good one is the 85 year old guy Elmer.
Example:
Ring......ring.....
"Hello, I'd like to speak with Elmer."
"This is Elmer speaking. Are you bringing my pizza over that I ordered 2 hours ago?"
"No sir, this is Lucy and I'm calling for MCI telecommunications, and would like to offer you our new long distance telephone service."
"You're with the telephone company honey? I remember when we first had a telephone...back in '25. I was 8 years old and had to stand on a chair to reach the phone. Now all I have to do is walk over and pick it up. What's your number sweetheart? I'll come over there and you can stand on a chair for me. I'll show you how I did it back in the old days."
"(Hehe) Not exactly sir, we are a long distance company."
"I'm 85 years old and don't travel much any more. Maybe you could come over here, and I'll get my chair out....and show you how I used to do it back in the '20s..... Heh, I have a telephone sweety. You should have seen me back then."
"Yes sir, but..."
"Give me your number, and I'll sign up for your service. Then we can talk when we feel like it. I'll call you, and ask how your day went, and you can come over and I'll order pizza for us...you and my wife, and me."
Les:D
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"Next y dont weban all advertising.,. "
Well I *DO* prefer PBS over regular broadcasting. And I'l be quite honest in that I will channel surf when the ads come on a program I'm viewing :)
"carry on with the screwing of americians"
Huh? Telemarketers hawking credit cards and insurance policies, making minimum wage and barely able to speak English let alone read the cue cards in front of them over the phone when intruding on people at home is some sort of critical"industry" in the US?
Trell, did you lobby this hard for the textile, steel, auto or electronic/computer industry jobs as they disappeared? Do you now lobby to get back the lost US jobs in IT, the software industry or chip making that got outsourced to India, Malaysia and other countries offshore?
"YOU WILL JUST GET THE CALLS FROM SOME INDIAN INSTED OF AN AMERICIAN. If I have a tellamarketer calling me I wannt it to be an AMERICIAN ONE "
Not if I have my CHOICE to NOT to get thier INTRUSIVE and HARASSING phone calls. But the best part is this is (was) a voluntary program and no one was forced to sign up for it. Therefore poeple such as yourself, who feel telemarking is crucial to the US economy and a critical "product," can feel free to support it! I only wish there was some way or means that I could forward any of thier calls to me at my home directly to you and yours.
Can you tell I'm not fond of thier intrusive, harrassing calls and that also do not respect their choice of an occupation in the least?
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US really needs to adjust the laws concerning direct advertising to the level of todays stantards.
Telemarketing and internet spamming is the worst ones in US.
It took long enough to ban fax advertising... only after it began eating up loads of paper and ink, the problem was realised.
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Originally posted by Westy
Well I *DO* prefer PBS over regular broadcasting. And I'l be quite honest in that I will channel surf when the ads come on a program I'm viewing :)
I channel surf on ads as well :)
"carry on with the screwing of americians"
Huh? Telemarketers hawking credit cards and insurance policies, making minimum wage and barely able to speak English let alone read the cue cards in front of them over the phone when intruding on people at home is some sort of critical"industry" in the US?
you do know that alot of those telemarketers are allready over seas?
it is not that it is critical but it is still jobs tens of thousands of them. it is not the people that have college digrees making 80+ a year that are being hurt.
It is the working poor, the low midle class that are working these jobs. that is who will be hurt by this. these call centers pay like 7-10 an hour.
Btw the insurance people still get to call I beleve. And if it is your creditcard complany calling this wont stop them eather.
Trell, did you lobby this hard for the textile, steel, auto or electronic/computer industry jobs as they disappeared? Do you now lobby to get back the lost US jobs in IT, the software industry or chip making that got outsourced to India, Malaysia and other countries offshore?
for the IT and steel I did.
the chip making was a little before my time i think. btw i still think nafta was very bad for this country.
living in michigan you can see all the harm to the auto indistry
and I am still in favor in high tarifs for imports. I believe they should expand it to people as well. now that soo much can be done over the internet. other words using a forien work force becasue it is cheaper than using an americin one should be taxed heavly.
"YOU WILL JUST GET THE CALLS FROM SOME INDIAN INSTED OF AN AMERICIAN. If I have a tellamarketer calling me I wannt it to be an AMERICIAN ONE "
Not if I have my CHOICE to NOT to get thier INTRUSIVE and HARASSING phone calls. But the best part is this is (was) a voluntary program and no one was forced to sign up for it. Therefore poeple such as yourself, who feel telemarking is crucial to the US economy and a critical "product," can feel free to support it! I only wish there was some way or means that I could forward any of thier calls to me at my home directly to you and yours.
now that is not nice is it?
I dont wish harm on you for disagreeing with me.
Can you tell I'm not fond of thier intrusive, harrassing calls and that also do not respect their choice of an occupation in the least?
I dont repect alot of occupations eather. but I dont wish them to lose there jobs just becasue I dont like them.
there are already ways to stop tellemarketers.
call wave, privicy director are 2 good ones.
I do not like the way the law is written on this.
they still alow the insurence compants to call.
still they alow airlines to call
still alow phone companys to call.
At election times it wont stop the constant calling tell you to vote for person xxxxxx
and charities still get to call.
90% of the calls I get fall into these types of calls above.
and y do they get to call?
becasue they throw enough money at the people making the laws.
now tell me if I am wrong but it seems to be that one of the groups of people that will be hurt by this are small companys.
they have to set up automatic dialers and call lists (and get billed for this) just to call local people to advertise.
btw yes i know my spelling sucks lol
:D
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Do you people really feel the DMA (direct marketing assoc) has the clout to influence the govt.. I dont but i know who does... The Baby Bells.. Its in their best interest to charge you for your phone, sell your information to whomever (read your fine print..) then play good guy selling you a service which stops telemarketing. On top of that they get all the usage of the telemarketer.. Very lucrative indeed..
Open your eyes..
Thats why the FCC got muscled...
Skuzzy solution is the best but is starting to be less effective as time goes on...
Newer predictive dialers can thwart that countermeasure, and old systems that dont use predictive (the illegal ones that only a machine talks to you) get by the .wav countermeasure...
best solutions ive found are as follows..
http://www.junkbusters.com/
http://www.shout.net/~bc/telemarketing/index.htm
(this guy is good)(busted link now? suggest google cached page they still have it. guy most likely got too much traffic)
Heres the new link... for the above:
http://www.fighttelemarketing.com/
http://www.junkfax.org/
http://cexx.org/
This is just the tip of the iceberg...
Do a google on "TCPA" "Telemarketer" "scumbag" (joking)
youll get a bunch of hits...
2 cents
DoctorYO
l
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Originally posted by Fishu
US really needs to adjust the laws concerning direct advertising to the level of todays stantards.
Telemarketing and internet spamming is the worst ones in US.
It took long enough to ban fax advertising... only after it began eating up loads of paper and ink, the problem was realised.
I can't let this one slip through. MOST Spamming comes from Asia, or is routed through Asian ISP's (Taiwan, China, Korea make up the bulk of generated Internet spam).
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Them sneaky little devils:D
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when telemarketers call, if you have the time, try to keep them on the line as long as possable. they make their money playing the percentages (x sales for every y calls), most people will hang up right away if they aren't buying, so marketers can get 4 or 5 calls every minute.
ummm not allways counts the company you work for,,,one of my freinds worked for a calling service,,,and she got paid more for conversation time then selling stuff,,,,she told me,,she sold like 30 aol deals in one day,,but sence her conversation time was only a few minutes she didnt make as much money as her coworkers,,because they kept them on the phone longer,,,conversation time is one of the telemarketers highest payers,,lol
i think this is wrong,,i cant beleve people who dont want these calls are bugged by them,,my self included,,i have a private phone line for my room and computer,,and i still get calls on that thing,,lol,,think ill try the skuzzy idea:)
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I can't let this one slip through. MOST Spamming comes from Asia, or is routed through Asian ISP's (Taiwan, China, Korea make up the bulk of generated Internet spam).
Most spam which has gotten to my mailbox, have been mostly advertised something sold by US company..
I don't care whether it's routed through asia or not, only the origin matters.
Do you know about the US fax laws concerning advertising?
The advertising US company can get fined even if they send the fax from abroad.
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The funny part is congress just told this Arse clown okie judge to F %$^&^ off LOL.
It is going true LOL Eat watermelon tele terroist!!!!!!!!!