Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rude on September 25, 2003, 08:58:00 AM
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Strange that only bad things happen there....and don't tell me otherwise, because I watch the news and read the internet.
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Watch your local news. Do you see car wrecks, murders, robberies, etc ........ or do you see weddings, Suzie's A+ report card, Mrs. Johnson's flower garden, and puppies?
Same thing in Iraq.
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I saw an interview with an Iraqi man who was concerned about industry and his family. Being that everything was state run the manufacturing business that he worked for (I don’t remember what it was) had outdated equipment and supplies.
Although they have returned to work it is only a half day and they all realize that their jobs are in danger because soon they will not be able to compete when new factories are built with updated equipment. All part of the growing pains he said.
They followed him home and filmed him praying and playing with his family. After a short narration they started translating what he was saying specifically. It was very intelligent and made a lot of sense. It was something like this:
“The Iraqi people are like small children with the coalition as parents. The children want everything from everyone now and throw tantrums when they don’t get it. It is not until the children become adults that they realize how much their parents did for them. The Iraqi people are much the same. There will continue to be anger and impatience until the people of Iraq can stand for themselves.”
That’s about as close as I can remember it. Makes a whole lot of sense to me, we’re Americans so we should be able to wave a magic wand and correct anything in the wave of a hand. It doesn’t work that way and it’s hard to be patient when there is so much that you want.
That’s been about the only positive thing that I’ve seen in the media so far.
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http://www.investors.com/editorial/issues.asp?v=9/25
Getting The Truth
INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Alt Text
Media: News outlets around the country continue to report on Iraq in ways that make the situation there look grim, like a fiasco, a quagmire. It ain't so.
But please, don't take our word for it. Just listen to those who have actually been there and are now reporting back, getting around the major media's filter on the news.
Just last week, a bipartisan House Armed Services group returned from a fact-finding trip to Iraq. The congressmen concluded the American media are systematically distorting the news from Iraq, exaggerating the bad, ignoring the good.
Typical was this, from Democrat Ike Skelton of Missouri: "The media stresses the wounds, the injuries and the deaths, as they should, but for instance in Northern Iraq, Gen. (Dave) Petraeus has 3,100 projects — from soccer fields to schools to refineries — all good stuff, and that isn't being reported."
Rep. Joe Wilson, a Republican from South Carolina who himself previously worked as a reporter, was also taken aback.
He cited what he called a "hysterical" account on CBS radio of an attack that led to three deaths: "The media portrayed it as an act of sophistication and a regrouping of Saddam's forces, when, in fact, it's an indication of disorganization and desperation."
Jim Marshall of Georgia, another Democrat and a Vietnam veteran, was so angered by what he saw, he penned an editorial when he returned. Today, IBD runs it.
Of course, as anyone in the media will tell you, bad news sells; good news doesn't. Sadly, that's true. But it goes deeper than that.
"There is corruption in our business," wrote John Burns, a New York Times correspondent in Iraq, who took the media to task for their failure in a scathing piece in Editor & Publisher. "We need to get back to basics."
Others who have been to Iraq have similar conclusions. Federal Judge Dan Walters, a Democrat appointee who traveled to Iraq to help reform that nation's legal system, noted, "We are not getting the whole truth from the news media."
We've said it before — we're not Pollyannas. But we've noticed a consistency to the reports we read of people who return from Iraq and say pretty much the same thing. Things there are far better than is being reported.
It's all over the Web, if you care to look.
Average soldiers, writing home, paint a much different picture than the media about what's happened. Like this from Art Messer, a Navy Seabee in Iraq, at sfft.org: "I can honestly say 98% of the population of Iraq loves us and they do not want us to leave — ever!"
Yes, we know people — Americans too — are still dying. There's disorder in some areas. Infrastructure needs to be rebuilt.
But Iraq is far better off today than it was a year ago. By any measure. And the people there, by and large, are happy we're there.
Again, that's not us talking — it's the Iraqis themselves. In a Gallup Poll released Wednesday, 67% of those living in Baghdad say they're glad Saddam is gone, even after recent hardships. And two-thirds expect things to be much better in five years.
Americans have much riding on this war on terror. They need the truth — facts and honest analysis, not bias and cant.
Anything less than that is a disservice to Iraq's nascent democracy. And to ours.
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from what I see on the news, Los Angeles is very violent. Many die.
I shouldnt go there.
:rolleyes:
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I've said it before, I'll say it again...
The Media has a liberal bias, especially on Iraq. What's scary is one industry grou, one small portion of our country has the power to influence the '04 election.
The media is out to crucify Bush, and the American public is believing it. Why the animosty? Do the dems still feel the '00 election was stolen from them?
Regardless, some quotes I liked from an excellent article:
Democrat Ike Skelton of Missouri: "The media stresses the wounds, the injuries and the deaths, as they should, but for instance in Northern Iraq, Gen. (Dave) Petraeus has 3,100 projects — from soccer fields to schools to refineries — all good stuff, and that isn't being reported."
THE MEDIA STRESSES THE DEATHS AS THEY SHOULD??? Why? How about giving a fair report of the situation without stressing anything? Let us make up our own minds.
Federal Judge Dan Walters, a Democrat appointee who traveled to Iraq to help reform that nation's legal system, noted, "We are not getting the whole truth from the news media."[.B]
Art Messer, a Navy Seabee in Iraq, at sfft.org: "I can honestly say 98% of the population of Iraq loves us and they do not want us to leave — ever!"
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Seems to me you're as desperate to believe it is all good as those who are desperate to believe it is all bad.
Perhaps, just maybe, it isn't all Mary Poppins? Ever thought to consider that before launching into tired old, black (eye-in-the-sky) helicopter theories about 'liberal' bias?
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They like to blame the liberal media, it feeds their agenda. The truth is when you watch your local news, you hear all the bad things, like people getting shot, car accidents, etc. You don't see a baby being born as the top story. But i'm sure it's the liberal media.
BTW saw on the news that the Iraqi police force is starting to get organised and looting is down.......damn liberals.
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Art Messer, a Navy Seabee in Iraq, at sfft.org: "I can honestly say 98% of the population of Iraq loves us and they do not want us to leave — ever!"
My, Art Messer sure is a busy little beaver if he's found time to speak with 98% of the Iraqi population. ;)
Maybe we should also ask him where all those nasty WMD are hidden as well, since he's covered so much ground interviewing 98% of the Iraqi people?
The "liberal bias" in the media myth is becoming Paul Bunyan-like in stature.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Seems to me you're as desperate to believe it is all good as those who are desperate to believe it is all bad.
Perhaps, just maybe, it isn't all Mary Poppins? Ever thought to consider that before launching into tired old, black (eye-in-the-sky) helicopter theories about 'liberal' bias?
You never fail Dowding....obviously armed with what you deem as intellect, you take from a topic what pleases you and leave the rest as fodder.
What was said here is not that the Iraq experience is void of pain and death, but rather the same may be just part of the story...perhaps a smaller part than would please you and your negative outlook.
Nothing in life is all good....that realization requires no intellect, just some common sense. The fact that you would say such a thing only shows me your true colors....you no sooner have a sincere desire for the truth than you have a desire to see the US effort succeed in Iraq.
To be as negative and bitter as you are at such a young age is sad....I'm older and have lived much of what you read about...I have hope for a better future for all of us....the difference between you and I is that I realize it is not free...it will require the sacrifice of human life, money and time....wise up....the media serves itself, not us.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Seems to me you're as desperate to believe it is all good as those who are desperate to believe it is all bad.
Perhaps, just maybe, it isn't all Mary Poppins? Ever thought to consider that before launching into tired old, black (eye-in-the-sky) helicopter theories about 'liberal' bias?
Dowding, if you knew anything about me, which you don't you'd know I'm just desperate for the truth. A persons party affiliation has nothing to do with my judgement. I call them as I see them.
Watch. Ready this may throw you. It's call free thinking.
I agree with Ted Kennedy. We should have a general timeline as to our extrication of Iraq.
Why? It's reasonable. It makes sense. It matter not to me which side of the aisle ole' Ted sits on. You should try it sometime.
So I guess the Liberal Media is a myth. What's next? There is no Liberal domination of Academia? Fox News really is fair and balanced? Rush is open minded? Hillary is hot?:rolleyes:
(On a side note, she's not hot, but for some reason, I'd bang her stuppid.)
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Rush jinxed my Patriots, picked them for the superbowl, now they are dropping like flies. We are calling in Doogie Howser. Our state now has a shortage of plaster for casts. Just for that i'm predicting Bush to win for pres, take that!!
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You resort to personal attack without fail yet still think you smell of roses, Rude. Sorry, but I'm not convinced. You hold yourself up as some kind of fountain of knowledge - I think I'll pass.
Muckmaw - you want the truth, as do all of us. Yet for some reason you are convinced that the bias in the news is 'liberal' in origin. Why is that? Newspapers, news stations all go for the juiciest story, the most dramatic pictures and footage - it has always been that way and it always will. It's not about ideology, it's about human nature. The media simply feeds that - some have agendas of their own, but to use coverall statements such as 'the media is all liberal' is simplistic at best.
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You've got a point there, Dowding.
It may appear at this time, that the media is more liberal than ever, when they are simply being sensationalist, as they always have. They are simply reporting violence, and this time, it comes out against the Bush admin.
I'd like to see some examples from a source aside from Fox News that demonstrates the media's ability to be on the conservative side of a debate.
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An over emphisis on bad news wouldn't surprise me. At the same time, the "liberal" media in the Pentagon and White House press corp (with the exception of Helen Thomas) refusing to ask too many tough (and potentially controversial) questions in the days leading up to the war - including the final press conference (where Ms. Thomas was excluded) - doesn't surprise me either.
Journalism at theat level is just as much an old boys club, don't rock the boat, Ivy League chum, watch out for my high profile high paying career game as anything else in Washington or corporate America. They actually tend to follow public opinion more than set it, and tend to be very lazy when covering issues. Let's get the "for" mouthpiece and the "against" mouthpice, let them have their say and call it balanced reporting, and not bother to see what the story really is that neither particularly wants the public to know about.
Charon
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I'd like to see some examples from a source aside from Fox News that demonstrates the media's ability to be on the conservative side of a debate.
you don't remember the lywinski(sp?) scandel? the 'libral' media didn't exactly brush over that. a story is a story and the more scandalus or horific they can find that's what makes a 'good' story.
if anything they are out to slant the stoory to get ratings.
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Yeah, darn conservative owned media.
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You resort to personal attack without fail yet still think you smell of roses, Rude. Sorry, but I'm not convinced. You hold yourself up as some kind of fountain of knowledge - I think I'll pass.
Please share with me what was so personal...as to a fountain of knowledge? Hardly. The difference between you and I is simple....you believe you know everything whereas I know you don't:)
I do know this though....the real truth NEVER lies in the middle...it is what it is regardless of how we may try to dress it.
Oh, one more difference....my skin is old and hard while your's is obviously soft as a baby's
:lol
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Rude, you're watching the wrong stuff. Stick with Fox, Rush, and NewsMax, and you should get the picture that you want.
There's something out there for everyone. :)
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Originally posted by popeye
Rude, you're watching the wrong stuff. Stick with Fox, Rush, and NewsMax, and you should get the picture that you want.
There's something out there for everyone. :)
I want an honest, unbiased view of the truth.
What channel is that on?
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I want an honest, unbiased view of the truth.
What channel is that on?
Newspapers more than broadcast and no Rupert Murdoch media. CNN is pretty shallow but good for the breaking story, otherwise way too much cheesy speculation (but what if Napoleon had a B-52 at the battle of Waterloo?). Non fiction books on the subjects and regions in question, ones that people from both extremes seem to disparage. Check out: The Iron Wall by Avi Shlaim for a different perspective on the Israeli/Palestinian problems. Frontline on PBS - can't be beat as far as actually taking the necessary time to cover an issue. Anything that goes into boring, non soundbite detail :)
And remember, both the pro and con spin are usually only a small part of why an issue is supported or resisted. I do know this first hand. It's amazing to see common industry knowledge go unreported in the mainstream media, but still hear the weak soundbites that are technically true (or at least not clearly false) and that sell well to the target audiences passed off as the whole story.
Charon
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You guys better stay put in IRAQ and rebuild the country. Then install a democratic goverment and leave.
So that after a couple of years, some religiouse nuts can overtrow it and it all starts from the beginning again.
You shure knows how to waste both money and human lifes.
I dont know how much you lost, but towards my currency your dollar have lost about 25% since october last year and it is still dropping, faster and faster.
The rest of the world is just hoping of the re-election of GWB, so he can drive your country really into the state of bancrupcy.
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Originally posted by popeye
Rude, you're watching the wrong stuff. Stick with Fox, Rush, and NewsMax, and you should get the picture that you want.
There's something out there for everyone. :)
Heyas Popeye...don't cya up in the MA anymore...you retire?
As to the news, I believe one must sample all outlets and realize the motives behind the delivery....I don't need the news to know that to remove Sadam, rebuild the countries infrastructure, establish peace and help the Iraqi people install a representative government, would require longer than 5 months and would certainly have upfront costs of more than 100 Billion dollars.
However, the cost for this endeavor will be mitigated by Iraqi oil...the numbers and stress currently blamed on the administration are half of the truth.:)
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Originally posted by crabofix
You guys better stay put in IRAQ and rebuild the country. Then install a democratic goverment and leave.
So that after a couple of years, some religiouse nuts can overtrow it and it all starts from the beginning again.
You shure knows how to waste both money and human lifes.
I dont know how much you lost, but towards my currency your dollar have lost about 25% since october last year and it is still dropping, faster and faster.
The rest of the world is just hoping of the re-election of GWB, so he can drive your country really into the state of bancrupcy.
If the Duke were alive, he'd kick your arse.
To your credit, at least you have the stones to say what you really feel rather than most on this board from overseas....deep inside, they can't wait to see the US fail.
Well, guess what....we go down and so do your socialist behinds....now that's kinda funny.
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Originally posted by Rude
Well, guess what....we go down and so do your socialist behinds....now that's kinda funny.
You know what is kinda funny, the gas here is just getting cheaper and cheaper
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Hiya Rude,
Haven't retired, just taking a break waiting for AHII.
I think the US economy will benefit from more than Iraq's oil. The entire Iraqi economy, with the exception of oil and other natural resources, will soon be open to foreign investment. Taxes will be capped at 15 percent. It will be a fire sale for those with connections to the CPA and Governing Council. Since the Iraqi industries will not be able to compete with those from the West, anything and everything of value will be snapped up and squeezed dry. The question is: how much of the profits will find its way into the US Treasury?
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However, the cost for this endeavor will be mitigated by Iraqi oil...
Just last week Bremer (IIRC) said that Iraq was "too poor to pay for the reconstruction due to the large debt owed to France and Russia."
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It might just be a matter of time before the world starts counting the Oilprice in Rubels per barrel or Euro per barrel.
Now thats not kinda funny, thats real funny.:lol
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Originally posted by crabofix
I dont know how much you lost, but towards my currency your dollar have lost about 25% since october last year and it is still dropping, faster and faster.
So lets see, if our goods now cost 25% less for you to buy and your goods cost us 25 % more to buy what is the result of your statement ?
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
So lets see, if our goods now cost 25% less for you to buy and your goods cost us 25 % more to buy what is the result of your statement ?
That you guys wont by any Volvos? Or SAAB?
You quit buying LAW´s?
Duh, we will go bancrupt!!
I should have listen to my mom, she always naged on me to finish the elementery school. Might just do that some day.
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Originally posted by popeye
The question is: how much of the profits will find its way into the US Treasury?
Enough to pay for this war I hope. :cool:
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Originally posted by crabofix
That you guys wont by any Volvos? Or SAAB?
You quit buying LAW´s?
No it just means we will be buying them cheaper and your other exports will be less competive in the world market. The break in the dollar is already helping the trade situation.
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Hey, Crabofix, help me out here...
What's the parent company of Volvo?
What's the parent company of Saab?
:rofl
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Can I get a bargain on Swedish Erotica and Ikea furniture now?
Sweeeet.
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
No it just means we will be buying them cheaper and your other exports will be less competive in the world market. The break in the dollar is already helping the trade situation.
I thought they would be more expensive, but then again, I am not a mathgenius.
I say: thank God for the common market of Europe.
I think I am gonna get myself a Gas Guzzler for the next trade in.
Muckmaw: Didnt you "MOOT" me?
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Originally posted by Toad
Hey, Crabofix, help me out here...
What's the parent company of Volvo?
What's the parent company of Saab?
:rofl
TOAD. I have to admit, you got my point.
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Your point is that Sweden sells more to the US than the US sells to Sweden?
Yes, I get that.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_116_1064526885.jpg)
And now Swedish goods are going to be relatively MORE expensive here and you think that's a GOOD thing for Swedes?
Nah, I guess I don't get that.
But it was funny you using US-owned Swedish companies in your example.
Yeah that trade deficit in Sweden's favor will give you great cause to celebrate our bankruptcy that you're predicting. :)
There's an old phrase "when Detroit sneezes, America catches a cold".
If the US declares bankruptcy, Sweden will... ?
:lol
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Originally posted by Toad
Your point is that Sweden sells more to the US than the US sells to Sweden?
Yes, I get that.
But it was funny you using US-owned Swedish companies in your example.
If the US declares bankruptcy, Sweden will... ?
:lol
Sweden will just keep on producing the highqulity products to the rest of the world and take the payment in Rubels, or Euro.
Yep I am very aware of Ford owning Volvo and GM owning SAAB, I live just 5 min drive from the Volvo factory.
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My point is:
The Clown you guys nearly elected to Präsident is spending to much money on his "Don quiote" Crusade.
It will effect your country in many ways. The education and the healthcare for the common man is the first that gets cut down.
Could you really afford another 4 years?
(Ok, you can always join the Army or the Navy.)
If theres no value in the Dollar and noone wants it, with what will you pay for all your imports in theese times when nothing is US made?
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Originally posted by GScholz
If the US economy fails then it's going to take a lot of the world economy down with it, but not my country's, Saudi Arabia's, Iran's etc. We'll be set for life so to speak.
Well, Blair would just claim the whole Northsea and then what would you guys do? Throw codfish on the Brittish Naval vessels?
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Yeah, you guys are right.
The US economy is insignificant and the world won't notice.. especially your countries... if it goes bankrupt.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Well he would have to build a lot of oilplatforms then. They're all mined in case of invasion. Boom! no oil for you.
Good thinking :D
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Originally posted by crabofix
You know what is kinda funny, the gas here is just getting cheaper and cheaper
What's funny is you seem to think that matters....fuel has moved up and down over the years...we're still here.
Of course, if we really did have a serious shortage, I'm sure Sweden would rush to our aid....you know...bein that you guys are our pals and everything.
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Originally posted by crabofix
You guys better stay put in IRAQ and rebuild the country. Then install a democratic goverment and leave.
So that after a couple of years, some religiouse nuts can overtrow it and it all starts from the beginning again.
You shure knows how to waste both money and human lifes.
I dont know how much you lost, but towards my currency your dollar have lost about 25% since october last year and it is still dropping, faster and faster.
The rest of the world is just hoping of the re-election of GWB, so he can drive your country really into the state of bancrupcy.
Who asked you anyways? Is there absolutely nothing of interest going in your part of the world worthy of your attention?
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Originally posted by crabofix
I thought they would be more expensive, but then again, I am not a mathgenius.
I say: thank God for the common market of Europe.
I think I am gonna get myself a Gas Guzzler for the next trade in.
Muckmaw: Didnt you "MOOT" me?
I said your argument is moot.
I did not MUTE you.
Your silly disatribes are much too entertaining to ignore.
THE DESTRUCTION OF THE US ECONOMY IN NO WAY THREATENS SWEDEN...IT'S SIMPLY RIDIKAAAKDUAS!
heheh...whatever you say, Olaf.
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Crabboy,
How much do you pay for gas? I just tanked up at $1.45 for medium grade unleaded. The most I've ever paid was $1.70 this summer but vacation time is over so demand is down so prices are down. Still dropping here even with the OPEC cut down.
Oil gets more expensive and it's real good for my family and a lot of my friends. My dad lives in Houston so anytime oil prices go up for a long time Houston has a boom. I talked to my old boss there this week and he said he's still blowing and going, designing 3 or 4 houses a week. Before it was the tech guys buying them, now it's the oil guys ;)
And another thing about good business. You guys sell more to us than we do to you, that's fine. We're used to it, we buy more than any other nation on Earth so it's kind of hard not to have a deficit. Guess what? That kinda makes us the costomer, and you know the old saying (you may not with your attitude) "the customer is always right" It doesn't make too much business since to piss of your biggest costomer, ya know? Maybe you don't....
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Watch your local news. Do you see car wrecks, murders, robberies, etc ........ or do you see weddings, Suzie's A+ report card, Mrs. Johnson's flower garden, and puppies?
Same thing in Iraq.
LOL good point :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by AKIron
Who asked you anyways? Is there absolutely nothing of interest going in your part of the world worthy of your attention?
Iron....let me help you understand by quoting a man the entire world respects and admires....Josey Wales.
Crabofix: I be lookin for attention since my willy is so tiny
Wales: You a Socialist?
Crabofix: Yup...man's gotta make a livin somehow
Wales: Suckin the governments hind titty ain't much of a livin boy
I'm certain you remember those lines from the movie....it was one of my favorites....that Clint Eastwood:)
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hehe, good one Rude
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Your silly disatribes are much too entertaining to ignore.
What can I say? I am flattered, thank you Muckmaw:)
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Udie, in order to be a "good customer" you need to be able to pay for your goods.
If noone wants your currency, you are in big, big trouble.
Gscholz.
I would nt talk to loud about theese facts, soon there Might be inspectors looking for WMDs, checking out a tip from former Jugoslavia that the WTC was attacked by white-haired Buddhist Norwegian grandmothers.
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You owe a bank $50,000 and the bank OWNS you.
You owe the bank $5,000,000,000,000 and you OWN the bank.
Think on it a while. ;)
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Carbofix do you understand the mechanisms behind international currency valuation and exchange rates?
Honest question.
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I can't believe CNN would spread such bald-faced lies!
'You just can't wait to get back home' (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/26/cnna.irq.perkins/index.html)
And feelings toward the Iraqi people, it's not as bad as you think. Actually, -- the Iraqi people are happy that we're there. At least in Kirkuk, where we're at, a lot of people are extremely happen.
Daily we're told by the Iraqi people that live there that "we love you, we are glad you're here, thank you for helping us." So that's a lot of uplifting times there when people tell us that.
He's not fooling anyone! Those of us that never talk to actual Iraqis know the truth!
Down with CNN!! Down with Boosh! Deth to Amreeka!!!
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Originally posted by Toad
You owe a bank $50,000 and the bank OWNS you.
You owe the bank $5,000,000,000,000 and you OWN the bank.
Think on it a while. ;)
So the more in debt I am , the better off I am?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Carbofix do you understand the mechanisms behind international currency valuation and exchange rates?
Honest question.
GRUNHERTZ
First of all: You are the only person that I have on my ignorelist, but I will answer you anyway.
Honest answer yes.
Honest question back to you: Do you understand how much the war in IRAQ is bleeding your "New" country out and do you understand what this means for your already messed up economics and the domestic problems with education and healthcare?
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So I take it that by you changing the subject, you dont understand how exchange rates are determined and are just talking out of your as.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So I take it that by you changing the subject, you dont understand how exchange rates are determined and are just talking out of your as.
So you think that talking about your lands total waste of money doés´nt have anything to do with your currencys coming value?
I guess your the one that might be talking from the wrong end.
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Originally posted by Toad
I can't believe CNN would spread such bald-faced lies!
'You just can't wait to get back home' (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/26/cnna.irq.perkins/index.html)
He's not fooling anyone! Those of us that never talk to actual Iraqis know the truth!
Down with CNN!! Down with Boosh! Deth to Amreeka!!!
Maybe we should get some Iraqi guest speakers at the world wide "Get outta Iraq" Hippie Demonstrations today.
GET A JOB, YA FRIGGIN' TREE HUGGER!
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Originally posted by crabofix
So you think that talking about your lands total waste of money doés´nt have anything to do with your currencys coming value?
I guess your the one that might be talking from the wrong end.
According to your own posts, the US Economy has no effect on Swedens, so what are you worried about? It's our money and our country. We'll flush it down the toilet and Sweden can slide into the Economic Super Power Slot.
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they will flush it down the toilet till the next election. and that aint far.