Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TigerStolly on September 25, 2003, 04:58:48 PM
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I'm sure this has been posted before, but i get a kick out of listening to it all the same.
I thought i'd post it in case someone has never heard it.
As far as i know it is authentic.
Its a Wav file 400k (http://www.stolly.org.uk/lanc.wav)
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WOW!
I've never heard this recording, but it seems authentic...I just don't think writers and actors could produce something that sounds so natural.
Do you have any other info about who/what/when/where?
Thanks for posting this link, Tiger.
MRPLUTO VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~ MAG-33
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WOW!!!!!
thats incredible. Ive never heard anything so realistic. Thats an awesome recording. Thanks for posting it.
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Been posted before. Its a Lancaster being attacked by Bf-110 and shooting it down.
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Why does the pilot ask the navigator to increase the revs? Did the Lancaster pilot not have direct control of the engine throttles?
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David--
Thanks for the details.
Perhaps the pilot needs both hands on the yoke, so the navigator adjusts the throttle for him. Just a guess.
MRPLUTO
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Originally posted by davidpt40
Why does the pilot ask the navigator to increase the revs? Did the Lancaster pilot not have direct control of the engine throttles?
The Lancaster had a Flight Engineer in place of a Co-Pilot. He did all the systems management stuff to free the pilot up to fly the aircraft. Sometimes the Navigator or Flight Engineer had minimal flight training to enable them to fly the aircraft if the pilot was killed.
Below is a link to a typical example of a Lancaster Crew list. It's from the back of a photo.
http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/images/lancu2.jpg
palef
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Simply amazing..
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I've listened to this recording several times today and each time it becomes more extraordinary. In fact, it is one of the most amazing historical documents I have ever experienced, and I've seen, heard, and read a lot.
MRPLUTO
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Originally posted by MRPLUTO
I've listened to this recording several times today and each time it becomes more extraordinary. In fact, it is one of the most amazing historical documents I have ever experienced, and I've seen, heard, and read a lot.
MRPLUTO
I get shivers down my spine everytime i listen to it :)
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I admire the way someone (I don't think it's the pilot, maybe the bombardier?) gets the crew focused again after the Bf-110 is shot down..."Keep weaving, there's some flak coming up!" Then the pilot says, "Don't shout all at once!"
The way they are weaving to avoid fighters and flak just a minute before bombs away is one reason the night bombing was often terribly innacurate. If I remember correctly, I determined from reading some figures that bombs were considered "on target" if dropped anywhere in an area about 1/3 the size of a 25 x 25 mile AcesHigh map grid. Dang, in AcesHigh I don't even need a bombsight to do that from 25k! Then again, I have what amounts to a global positioning system. :D
MRPLUTO
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It is a fake, undoubtedly
wipass
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I'd be interested to know how you are so sure ;)
If its a fake then someone went to an awful amount of trouble even to the point of getting the 1940's UK and Australian / NZ accents. Did you spot the commonwealth crew member ? You'd have to be British to notice the very small twang in one of the voices.
Realistically if this is not the real deal someone spent quite some time, professional skill and indeed money on this. Apart from for a film i can't see why someone would want to. I've not heard this clip in any film and i've seen all that i know of.
I do also know that audio recording devices were carried as routine by ELINT aircraft of 100 group and on occasion by main force aircraft. So its entirely plausable.
IMHO ;)
edit ***
The thing that still grabs me afte listening to it many times is how cool and professional they are. More often than not meeting a night fighter resulted in death for the bomber crew or the rest of the war in a cage at best. They came within a nats whisker but 10 seconds later its "Shows over chaps on with the job"
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wipass,
If you think it's a fake, please tell us why.
MRPLUTO
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it is a fake and has been posted many times on many boards. Even on this board. Search you may find the answers.
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Even if it turned out it was a fake, it's PDC (uh, pretty damn cool).
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CC Batz. Will search and report back to this post asap.
MRPLUTO
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Originally posted by wipass
It is a fake, undoubtedly
wipass
I tend to agree. Magnetic tape and magnetic wire recordings weren't in common use until after WWII. MOst Wartime and Pre-war recordings are brought to you by the magic of "ET" or "Electronic Transcription". This was essentially a 16" record (LP - remember them?) with a heavy aluminium disk as a backing plate.
The recording process required direct manual intervention as it essentially required an operator to run the cutting process as one would operate a lathe. I can't see the ET process producing something of this quality in a Lancaster bouncing around at 18k. Also the shavings produced were highly flammable - not something nice to have in an aircraft laden with bombs and fuel.
Also these "ET" recordings deteriorated badly after the 1st or 2nd playing due to the softness of the recording surface.
palef
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No way those two short bursts of BB's could drop a BF-110 !!!!
Seriously is it fake? they did a good job if it is.
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It may have been a wire recording, the BBC had a lot of wire recorders in WWII.
I know that aircraft of 100 Group did make audio recordings in flight of German fighter controllers and then play them back later that night to confuse the Germans.
So it was done, and therefore it can't be ruled out that this recording was technically possible.
We also have not answered the biggest question. If it is a fake, then who and why ?
We have not proved it is a fake, but we cannot prove it is authentic either.
Wire recorders (http://www.videointerchange.com/wire_recorder1.htm)
Notice that thousands were made before during the war.
Wire recording conversion (http://avconvert.com/audio/price_list_wire.html)
Its a trivial thing to get a wire recording digitised
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WW2 was a while ago, but not in the stone age.
Audio recording in a plane was just as possible as it was anywhere else, and so was even colour filming WITH audio. Did anyone see that bomber mission in colour, , - - now what was its name again....:confused:
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I think it's real, and I loved the recording.
Thanks for posting it up. Added the file to my library. :)
F4i
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Angus--
You must mean "Memphis Belle".
*******
Sunking--
Sure the two bursts (one long, one short) could have brought down a 110...at night the combat ranges were very close. That 110 was probably only between 30 and 70 yds away.
MRPLUTO
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I had a friend of mine who is knowledgable in the fields of WW2 and sound recording, as well as creative work listen to this "Lancaster Under Attack". He used exactly the right word to describe why he believed the recording was genuine: verisimilitude. To recreate something so genuine sounding in a studio with actors and sound effects is extremely difficult. It would have been easier to put a recording device on a bomber.
My friend suggested this could be hiding somewhere in the sound archives of the BBC.
MRPLUTO
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bs, that is as fake as it can be. You can chose not to believe it but dont make excuses as to why its "real".
You hear guns firing but not the eng? you believe that?
This thing is old and has beaten to death. Its not real. If you think that cant be made without a studio you are nuts. Theres lotsa 3 party audio for games like eaw and even il2 that sound about like that.
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theres one real give away as well
bombadier?
Brits used "Bomb Aimer"
crew photo
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/lancaster_crew.htm
another
http://www.feltwellnorfolk.freeserve.co.uk/lancaster_crew.htm
another
http://www.lancastermuseum.ca/lancaircrew.html
Read through the photo captions. in all 3 the bombadier is listed as "bomb aimer".
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It sounds very realistic but on the other hand it's a too clean recording for a battle flight.
I strongly recommend on reading the book:
"COMBAT CREW" BY JOHN COMER- a dramatic story told by the flight engineer of a B17- from the day the crew was recruited until it managed to acomplish 25 missions and be sent back home.
Just reading the book lets one get the "feel " of the fear , the noise, the low temperatures at high alt ....
Amazing.
Doc
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Somebody set up us the bomb?
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First off, why would someone make a fake recording of a Lancaster crew?
theres one real give away as well
bombadier?
Brits used "Bomb Aimer"
Please....and I guess you think the term "skipper" was the official term for the pilot.
I've seen no one offer any evidence at all as to why this is a fake. Just because it doesn't sound like what you think it should sound like is no reason to cry fake.
Heres some evidence for it being real- If it were produced in a studio, I'm sure the studio would not have forgotten something as important as engine noise. But I imagine real lancaster intercomn systems were only sensitive to noises produced close to the microphone (human voice/machine guns).
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Makes sense to me, Davidpt, but then again i'm not one of the elite paranoid
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You can blindly except it as "real" if you want but dont try to tell folks who know it isnt real that it is. Its 100% fake. Its not new, its been around many times. Its been shown to be a fake many times.
But whatever gets you through.
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Nobody seems to have any proof either way.
In your opinion its fake, maybe because it does not fit with your preconcieved notions of what it really should sound like but unless you were actually a WWII Lancaster crew member you don't actually KNOW its fake any better than i KNOW its authentic.
It was technically possible to record audio in flight and it was done for operational reasons its not impossible that someone recorded the intercom.
So basically untill there is proof presented all we have is opinions.
edit ***
If it IS fake then what was it done for ? A film ? A game ?
Which film ? What game ?
I'm sure between us we have played every game and watched every film that deals with this subject. Does ANYONE recognise it ?
Unless you think someone spent time and money doing this as a prank to fool poor unsuspecting flight sim players.
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I'm not blindly accepting this recording as anything.
I haven't seen any arguments that prove the recording is fake.
On the other hand, it hasn't been proven authentic either.
Batz says it's been around many times and shown to be fake, so someone should be able to come up with a link to something conclusive.
I'll try to spend some time later today doing some searches.
MRPLUTO
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Originally posted by Batz
But whatever gets you through.
Usually a nice woman that likes to play twister.
Btw Wot, ROFL.
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Lets suppose it's a fake. Just imagine the amount of work, time and money, that this thing took? Voices and actors sound very real indeed. And if someone really did this, wouldn't he be spreading it everywhere on the web? Yet this is only the second time I have encountered this recording.
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If this recording was american, which it obviously is not, then I might tend to believe that it is a fake. After all you managed to fool the whole world with your moon landing (http://www.moontruth.com/clips/moontruth.mpg). :D
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Originally posted by AHGOD
Somebody set up us the bomb?
indeed all your base belong to us
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Batz: Its 100% fake. Its not new, its been around many times. Its been shown to be a fake many times.
Cool. I always love reading about hoaxes. Got a link?
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As a Brit, something doesn't ring true about those accents. Can't quite put my finger on it. Sounds like the stereotypical upper-class Eton type officers with a token working-class cockney for the rank and file gunner.
And like Batz says - you can hear the guns a clear as day, yet when the pilot speaks, the four merlins sat a few feet from his head are at best a barely audible hum? Something doesn't ring true.
And the fact that 'bomb aimer' is not used at all is a bit of a giveaway, as has been pointed out.
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"Bombadier" proves it's false? If that's all you have to go on then.. :rolleyes:
If this WAS sudio recording, you think they'd leave the engines out? if anything this just proves it's authenticity
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The magnetic interference from the engines sounds right to me.
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Bombadier is an American term - the RAF said 'Bomb aimer'. Back then, it would be like the difference between gasoline and petrol.
I'll ask a friend of mine who actually flew on Lancs during WW2, when I next see him. I'll play him the recording and ask him about the bombadier/bomb aimer thing. If I remember, I'll post to this thread. I'm sure he was in the situation depicted in this clip several times during his time with Bomber Command.
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if the side gunner is firing why do you hear the guns firing while the "skipper" is talking. The side gunner sits right behind 2 engines. If you here 303s firing you damn sure would hear the eng. You arent in an enclosed insolated space.
Hell jug and p51 pilots never or rarely heard their 6 / 8 50s fire over the eng.
"Sounds about right to me" lol gimme a break. Its fake.
ps I have read and heard various raf bomber crews being interviewed not once did I hear or read any reference to bambadier, its been "bomb aimer". I linked 3 lanc crew links and I can link more.
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if the side gunner is firing why do you hear the guns firing while the "skipper" is talking. The side gunner sits right behind 2 engines. If you here 303s firing you damn sure would hear the eng. You arent in an enclosed insolated space.
What are you talking about? The lancaster doesn't even have side gunners. The tail gunner is firing.
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I think Batz just made it clear he's not an expert in this area ;)
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it wasnt the tail gunner it was the "mid gunner" which was just a typo on my part. Either way its still fake.
Tiger is that your site its on? or your squads?
http://www.stolly.org.uk
If so tell us where you got it. I mean if its real amd on the web then where the story behind it.
This was on this board way back, you will have to search because this forum changed over and it may have been lost, it was on simhq a long time agao as well and that forum has changed so you may not find it.
Go post it on AAW or at nightbomer.com they will tell you its fake, because it is. No typo I made will make it real.
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Originally posted by AHGOD
Somebody set up us the bomb?
...]aircraft laden with bombs and fuel.
LOL
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It was posted on the WWIIOL Hanger forum ages ago. I lost that one but i did a search for it on Google and found it on a site that had various audio clips from 1940's.
I put it on my webspace for safe keeping, as well as my local hard disk.
The site i got it from labelled it as a 1943 recording of a Lancaster over Berlin.
btw.....
BBC reporters flew with Lancasters and made recordings of the crew.
Perhaps this is one of these recordings.
Here is a guy talking about it
BBC war reporters (http://www.roger.beckwith.btinternet.co.uk/bh/repwar/wr_intro.htm)
The famous reporter Richard Dimbleby also flew 20 missions with the RAF one of them was this one on 17/18 January 1943
"An observer of this raid was Richard Dimbleby, the BBC broadcaster, who flew in a 106 Squadron Lancaster piloted by Wing Commander Guy Gibson."
RAF Website. BBC reporter halfway down (http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/diary/jan43.html)
I can't find that recording but i did find another one of him observing a Spitfire strike from the air on D-Day
D Day website (http://search.eb.com/normandy/media/oairwar003u1.html)
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I found this recording here, it lists it as
1943-09-03 BBC Lancaster Bomber Crew Over Berlin
WWII recordings (http://www.michnews.net/history/ww2/)
Its free on Radio 365 if you want to listen to it.
If its a fake then its fooled these people as well.
What do you think ? All the rest of the stuff i am listening sure sounds real.
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Pilot - Flight Lieutenant George Henry Ebert DFC RAF
2nd Pilot aboard for experience - Wing Commander Ashley Duke Jackson MiD* RAF
Flight Engineer - Sergeant Bernard Owen Greenhill RAF
Navigator - Flight Sergeant Fred Thomas Murray Sidebotham RAFVR
Air Bomber -Flying Officer Peter Noel Hodgson RAFVR
Wireless Operator - Flight Sergeant Jack Thomas Toplis RAFVR
Mid Upper Gunner - Sergeant Aubrey Harris Miller RAFVR
Rear Gunner - Flight Sergeant Alfred John Simmons RAFVR
Aircraft took off from RAF Spilsby in Lincolnshire 2357. Crashed in the target area, crew all killed. It is believed that all were buried locally on 12 January, since when their remains have been transferred to Poznan Old Garrison Cemetery. F/L Ebert had logged at least 23 operational sorties. Wg Cdr Jackson had been attached for operational experience ahead of being given command of another squadron. It was in this aircraft 'F for Freddie' that Wynford Vaughn Thomas did a trip to Berlin on 3 Sep 1943 to make the famous BBC recording, broadcast in the Home Service on 4th September 1943 and many times since, of a Lancaster crew on a bombing raid. This included the shooting down of an attacking fighter.
http://www.rafinfo.org.uk/airsearch/units.htm
L-R: Charles Stewart (F/E), Ken Letford (Pilot), Wynford Vaughan-Thomas (BBC Correspondent), Bill Bray (B/A). These were some of the principal guests of those who met at RAF Northolt in September 1983 to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the BBC recording made of EM-F's trip to Berlin on 3 Sep 1943. George Mitchell, of 207 Sqn at Northolt, can be seen on the left. It was on this occasion that the idea of forming an Association took firm root. [source: Ron Winton]
http://www.207squadron.rafinfo.org.uk/who.html
WYNFORD VAUGHAN THOMAS Radio Commentator and Author 1908-1987
A Welshman who thrived in radio's "new kingdom of talk". Joined the BBC in 1937 and rose to fame with his wartime reports. Covered a Lancaster bomber's night raid on Berlin, the Allied entry into Rome and Montgomery's crossing of the Rhine. Awarded the Croix de Guerre in 1945. Turned freelance, but continued to broadcast extensively in a wide range of BBC programmes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/thenandnow/history/1980sn2.shtml
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That would appear to settle that then.
Well found GScholz.
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Bombadier isn't sufficient to say it is fake. The RAF may have used the term Bomb Aimer but Bombadier goes back years in the Army and if the pilot was used to dealing with Army or relatives etc.... see, you just don't know either way.
Anyway, nice recording, I honestly don't know either way if it is fake or not. Still good tho.
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It's real.
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Originally posted by GScholz
It's real.
Not when you see scar marks underneath them ;)
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I blame Chris ....... :p
That settles that, good find GScholz.
:p
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Originally posted by AHGOD
Not when you see scar marks underneath them ;)
Yes, I've noticed that ;)
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Tune in next week for "GScholz - The Moon Landings. Proof they really happened" :D
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A small step for man, a giant leap for ... me! - GScholz on the Moon, next on "Towntalk". :D
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Originally posted by Batz
I blame Chris ....... :p
That settles that, good find GScholz.
:p
Bah I always get blamed. If it wasn't for those meddlin kids I would have got away with it.
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Awesome find GScholz!
(Anyway, I took this for authentic, - it was just so normal)
As for the recordings, - wouldn's the recorder have been in the mid/aft plane, partly wired into the intercom?
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The IWM seems to have a sound archive. Some guys on rec.aviation.military have given me the contact details.
I'm going to get in touch and see if they have the full recording.
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http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/hendon/research/contact.cfm
could try here too tigerstolly
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Thanks, i've sent an enquiry in.
It would be cool to hear the whole thing.
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I'd just like to bring to everyones attention that Replicant has the best avatar in the universe.. ever .
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Originally posted by Suave
I'd just like to bring to everyones attention that Replicant has the best avatar in the universe.. ever .
I've had nightmares because of Furball's avatar. I can't help but watch it over and over again with a gaping mouth in anticipation that - JUST ONCE - the poor guy will be able to keep the cork in the pipe and survive. :lol
F4i
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Originally posted by Suave
I'd just like to bring to everyones attention that Replicant has the best avatar in the universe.. ever .
what is it from? or am i just really stupid?
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Originally posted by Furball
what is it from? or am i just really stupid?
Replicant, Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer, Sean Young ... any of these hints ring a bell? If not here's another one "... gone, like tears ... in the rain ...".
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Ridley Scott's best, IMO.
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Come on Furball! :) Nexus 6... soundtrack by Vangelis... made in 1982... Daryl Hannah, plus the woman out of 240 Robert (forget her name!) ;) Ford's character Decker was thought to have been a Replicant too!
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"....if the side gunner is firing why do you hear the guns firing while the "skipper" is talking. The side gunner sits right behind 2 engines. If you here 303s firing you damn sure would hear the eng. You arent in an enclosed insolated space. ...".
You're assuming we're hearing the sound of the guns themselves, picked up by a microphone. If you listen closely, it sounds more like "interference" or "noise" introduced into the intercom system, caused by the guns firing.
I'm sure an audio expert could explain it better.
yowser
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It sounds more like an audio of a Lancaster attacking a nightfighter. They never talk about being hit. It sounds like the nightfighter flew close over the Lancaster without ever being aware of it (or at least of the Lanc's actual location) and got shot down before being able to take action.
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Originally posted by Replicant
Come on Furball! :) Nexus 6... soundtrack by Vangelis... made in 1982... Daryl Hannah, plus the woman out of 240 Robert (forget her name!) ;) Ford's character Decker was thought to have been a Replicant too!
Remember the dream about the unicorn...
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GScholz, thank you very much for investigating this. :)
*******
There's one issue from above that hasn't been discussed:
Why can the guns be heard so well, and not the engines?
Directional microphones is one reason. Some mics can screen out most sound from all but a few degrees. I don't know what the level of directional mic technology was in 1943, but as someone said above, "it wasn't the stone-ages then".
Also, by plugging into the intercom system background noise would be screened out.
MRPLUTO
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Originally posted by Replicant
Come on Furball! :) Nexus 6... soundtrack by Vangelis... made in 1982... Daryl Hannah, plus the woman out of 240 Robert (forget her name!) ;) Ford's character Decker was thought to have been a Replicant too!
ahhh no wonder, thats a year before i was born!
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If you ever have the chance to see this movie on a big screen - don't miss it. If you like movies in general - this one will catch you.
It's not utter trash like most 20 year old sci-fi movies, this one is a work of art.
Easily Ridley Scott's best work ever. :)
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WTG Tiger...a truly great post: informative, instructional, inspirational, got everyone envolved. That's the best thing about this AH community, if you can wade through the trash talk and uber egos that abound in here:D
Slim03
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Originally posted by MRPLUTO
GScholz, thank you very much for investigating this. :)
Your welcome Mr. Pluto. :)
On the sound issue, my guess is that they filtered out the low sound bands that the deep roar of the merlins would produce. The crew were all using headsets and throat mikes. You notice that there is very little bass in the sound, all high and mid tones. The sharp report of a machinegun could not be filtered out though (nor would you want to if you work for the BBC ;)).
EDIT: You can however hear the electromagnetic interference from the sparkplugs. It's a faint high-pitch vibration that sometimes varies a bit in pitch (prolly from not having all engines running at the exact same rpm).
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Hmmm ... I wonder if it could be possible to find out who they shot down? We have the date and location. It must be possible to find the LW losses over Berlin that night, and if the pilot/crew survived perhaps an AAR. This could be an interesting project.
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On the sound discussion:
Remember that the engines on the lanc are mounted outside the fuselage of the aircraft whereas the guns are mounted in the fuselage, only inches from the crew, with a clear sound path through the cabin. This would probably account for the difference in what can and can't be heard clearly.
Someone mentioned that in a fighter you couldn't hear the guns over the engine. In a fighter, the engine is sitting only a few feet ahead of the pilot, with only a firewall between them whereas a fighters guns are out in the wings with no clear path for the sound to follow through the aircraft to the pilot.
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Originally posted by Karnak
It sounds more like an audio of a Lancaster attacking a nightfighter. They never talk about being hit. It sounds like the nightfighter flew close over the Lancaster without ever being aware of it (or at least of the Lanc's actual location) and got shot down before being able to take action.
If you listen closely just before the gunner fires the first time he (or someone on board) says "Gerry tracer behind us". At least thats what it sounded like to me. Sounds like the German fired on them and the gunner returned fire.
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Originally posted by Regurge
If you listen closely just before the gunner fires the first time he (or someone on board) says "Gerry tracer behind us". At least thats what it sounded like to me. Sounds like the German fired on them and the gunner returned fire.
I hear it too now that I am listening for it. It was quiet.
It is odd though. Mossie nightfighters didn't carry tracer as it would alert the enemy. I wonder why the Germans did?
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wwiiol (http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/dg_message.jsp?group_id=8863&parent_id=3308938&BV_SessionID=@@@@1138909372.1064900386@@@@&BV_EngineID=dadcigkhmhekbjjcgmcggichhl.0)
Stolly cross oposted this over at wwiiol.
I think I am sticking to this as being "fake". Despite GScholz's great research theres no way to tell if this wav is actually the the aircraft he linked.
There was a edited version (actually just a snipped version) of this wav on earthlink's sounds of ww2. They were selling the full version. It was put on that sitedated 2000. I believe thats around the same time this first made the rounds.
Feel free to believe what you want but theres a number of things that arent right. The lack of eng noise is one for me but this recording had to made from the intercom. The crew most likely were wearing masks. I am not sure what type of mic was used or how they were keyed (push to talk, voice activated or what). The gun noise just doesnt seem right.
Read the link above if you can.
YMMV
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Originally posted by Karnak
I hear it too now that I am listening for it. It was quiet.
It is odd though. Mossie nightfighters didn't carry tracer as it would alert the enemy. I wonder why the Germans did?
I thought about that too, but I suppose if you're attacking Lancasters the tail gunner would see the muzzle flash in any case. IIRC Mossies mostly went after enemy nightfighters, some of which were single seaters so not using tracer makes sense.
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dammitt..
hey Tiger ..i try ur link on ur first post but its a no go...can u repost link??
Salute
BiGB
xoxo
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If its not real i want more like this produced, anyone said Big Week radio soap opera? or Ploesti
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Originally posted by Batz
wwiiol (http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/dg_message.jsp?group_id=8863&parent_id=3308938&BV_SessionID=@@@@1138909372.1064900386@@@@&BV_EngineID=dadcigkhmhekbjjcgmcggichhl.0)
Stolly cross oposted this over at wwiiol.
I think I am sticking to this as being "fake". Despite GScholz's great research theres no way to tell if this wav is actually the the aircraft he linked.
There was a edited version (actually just a snipped version) of this wav on earthlink's sounds of ww2. They were selling the full version. It was put on that sitedated 2000. I believe thats around the same time this first made the rounds.
Feel free to believe what you want but theres a number of things that arent right. The lack of eng noise is one for me but this recording had to made from the intercom. The crew most likely were wearing masks. I am not sure what type of mic was used or how they were keyed (push to talk, voice activated or what). The gun noise just doesnt seem right.
Read the link above if you can.
YMMV
Like someone suggested before, it's possible they edited out the lower pitch noises, the gnines, plus the lower sound of the .303 firing. All that coems through is the higher pitched noise.. If they were wearing masks, this would also offer an explanation..
To me, taht article GScholz posted is wwwaaay too big a coincidence to be different recording..
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Originally posted by GScholz
The crew were all using headsets and throat mikes. You notice that there is very little bass in the sound, all high and mid tones. The sharp report of a machinegun could not be filtered out though (nor would you want to if you work for the BBC ;)).
EDIT: You can however hear the electromagnetic interference from the sparkplugs. It's a faint high-pitch vibration that sometimes varies a bit in pitch (prolly from not having all engines running at the exact same rpm).
This sounds right to me.
Comes to my mind that the tail gunner is very close to the guns and fireing high impact presure/sound pounding his flight jacked + throat microfone. Huge merlins have deep steady roar.
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It could be a studio based reconstruction of the original recording - that was done very often back then. Churchill's speeches were re-done using an actor for instance; the 'never surrender' speech we often hear tends to be a recording done after the fact by a well-known imitator.
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With the passing of time and all the file formats and compression this may or may not have been through to get it into a format we can hear over the interent, I would not expect what we are hearing is the quality of the original 60 years ago in any case.
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I guess it is real!
great work on producing the evidence.
I would think that back then maybe just maybe they had throat microphones that were hooked up some how to a recording device.
I mean hell we never been in a flying combat Lancaster and would now what the noise levels were inside. Also we dont know if this recording was cleaned up digitally.
But I believe it to be authentic.:)
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i have flown in a b-17 for 30 mins..
B-24 for 50 mins...
LOUD AS HELL!!!!!
i too miss the engine nopise..a bit strange atleast
but greatttt audio..
is there anymore places to hear this stuff??
Salute
BiGB
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Did you bomb a small town too while you were up bgb? lol
:lol
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lol..nj..we did fly over (very low) 1 k agl...over the Martinez refineries....
reminded me of the men who flew over ploesti..minus me being shot at..
i will post pics onec i grab soem screenies from the video we filmed..
was soo dammm sweeettt
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Cool BGB. I need to post my propaganda posters somewhere also.
I never been in a plane before....................... ...I am afraid of heights
not!
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Hi Guys,
My free AH trial ran out so i've not been back here for a while and i stopped getting the emails telling me this thread was still being posted to so i though it had died.
Quick update regarding this.
The Imperial War Museum has the BBC recording that was created on 3/9/43 and they are kindly (for a small fee ;) ) putting it on CD for me.
When I receive the CD we will know for sure wether this recording is the BBC recording.
I'll be sure to come back here and let everyone know.
I'm not 100% sure if the recording is actually copyrighted in any way so i may or may not be able to post it for download by you chaps.
The file is still on my webspace BGBMAW so it should still be good to download.
Heh lots of people are getting involved with this both here and at WWIIOL. Its good to see people getting involved and nary a flame anywhere :D
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Hi Guys,
Well i finally got the CD from the IWM. The whole recording is over an hour long but is totally amazing from end to end.
The highlight of course is the nightfighter attack.
I've taken 3 parts from the recording, the start, the attack, and the end. I cannot post all of it due to it being too big and it being under BBC copyright. If you want the whole thing the IWM will put it on CD for £20. I also wouldn't want to take money from the IWM by posting all of it.
So here are the 3 excerpts.
Take off, feet wet (http://www.stolly.org.uk/1-001.mp3)
Under attack (http://www.stolly.org.uk/2-001.mp3)
Home safe. Notice the reference to F for Freddie. (http://www.stolly.org.uk/3-001.mp3)
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Thanks for the update TigerStolly.
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A pleasure ;)
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Thanks for the update, I really enjoyed listening to it.
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Facinating....and thanks Tigerstolly & GScholz:aok
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Wtg TigerStolly! That's an astonishing historical document!
So Batz, still not convinced? ;)
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No problem :)
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TigerStolly, what was the reaction over at the WWIIOL BBS?
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I think it's real.
Why do they sound so calm? There's a BBC reporter onboard, recording everything! Of course they're going to give their best "stiff upper lip" performance! They know their flight will be broadcast all over the nation on the radio.
It sounds like the recording device was hooked up directly to the intercom. It would have to be, considering the voices of every crewmember was clearly and equally audible. The sounds of the machineguns firing would have been heard over the intercom, simply by virtue of how loud they are and how close the guns are to the gunner's microphone.
As for the engines, haven't you listened to 1940's era recordings? They're notoriously bad at picking up low frequency sound. People's voices on these old recordings all sound high pitched and nasally, because the recording didn't get any of the bass tones.
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I was just thinking while reading the debate, it wouldn't be too hard to calculate the cyclic rate of the guns in the audio to verify that they at least could be real. I think this is authentic, however, and enjoyed listening immensely.
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...is this thing still going on?? This must be some kinda record for length of thread. Anybody know what longest thread is (either timewise, or # of replies).
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Naw, this thread isn't long ... just very ... very ... very ... slooooooow. ;)
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Batz?
Baaaaatz?
You were wrong, neener neener neeener. ;)
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Heh Hello again ;)
Yeah this is a sllooooowwww thread :)
It took a long time to get the CD from the IWM, and i don't have time to surf much these days.
The reaction at the WWIIOL was *crickets* from the people who doubted, but a few people got to hear the recordings again so thats cool........
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its funny when these dweeb armchair expert geeks get proven wrong, and they just dont bother replyin :)
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Originally posted by Karnak
It is odd though. Mossie nightfighters didn't carry tracer as it would alert the enemy. I wonder why the Germans did?
As a linguist in the Navy, I've spent a good deal of time listening to recordings much worse than this, and trying to figure out what the hell is going on.
I'm not sure he's saying "Gerry tracers behind us." I don't know what terminology would be used at that time/place, but could he be saying "Gerry Trailer behind us" ? as in a plane following them? What are the other possibilities I wonder?
Without commenting on it's authenticity, I can say this gave me some flashbacks lol.
-Sik
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Batz finally replied, unfortunately he just confirmed his stubbornness, arrogance and unbelievable disrespect for the people who made that flight and recording.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104441
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Obsess lately?
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Tiger, thanks for posting that, good stuff for sure...:aok
Weather its fake or not who cares...it still is something interesting to listen to.
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Interesting nightfighter attack audio, I'll have to compare it to the tape my father had sent to him back in the '70's
My father was the pilot.
Regards, Ian Letford.
Originally posted by GScholz
Batz finally replied, unfortunately he just confirmed his stubbornness, arrogance and unbelievable disrespect for the people who made that flight and recording.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104441
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Originally posted by Ian Letford
Interesting nightfighter attack audio, I'll have to compare it to the tape my father had sent to him back in the '70's
My father was the pilot.
Regards, Ian Letford.
That is very interesting.
Thank you for posting.