Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on September 28, 2003, 11:18:42 AM
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Reading all these old "new" (or is it new "old"?) political threads got to wondering if there really is anyone that actually believes that one or the other of the two parties and/or the individual politicians that wear the labels really care anything at all about anything except themselves and their own success.
They do what they think they need to do to stay in power or get back in power.
Any benefit to the common citizen has to be considered a bonus and not necessarily part of the plan, merely a byproduct of the urge to rule.
Fer cripes sakes, both parties have held all offices at one time or another. Both parties have held majorities for extended periods.
Yet THE SAME OLD PROBLEMS NEVER GET SOLVED.
Go figure.
Wait, here... just to help you regain a non-threatening state of calm....
"It's all the _____________________ fault!!!!!"
Fill in the blank anyway you like.
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Any benefit to the common citizen has to be considered a bonus and not necessarily part of the plan, merely a byproduct of the urge to rule.
Absolutely. I'm amazed were not screwed over even worse than we are much of the time. The press helps prevent that somewhat, but even it is more on the inside than the outside once you reach Washington.
Charon
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Toad, I couldn't have said it better myself.
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I gotta agree 100%, and I'll even go one further. if they ever got it together and stopped apposing each other we'd really be screwed.
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Originally posted by Toad
"It's all the ___13th TAS___________ fault!!!!!"
Fill in the blank anyway you like.
I'm sure you guys are responsible for the delay of AH2. I haven't figured out how you did it yet but I 'm watching ya. ;)
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Politics is a team sport. You pick your team and root like crazy for them. You shake your pom-poms and rabidly defend them.
It doesn't matter how bad the coach is nor that one of the first string players just got arrested on rape charges. Your team will always be the best no matter what.
And just like the sport super stars, politicains don't give a flying **** about their fans.
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I'm not much of a sports fan either.
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I agree 100% Toad, I just hate the republicans more is all. Nader said it best when he said that the difference between the parties is the speed wich their knees hit the ground to worship at the alter of big business. Now big business has a lot going for it, ti is the very best example of human organization, but the inherent greed/profit motive causes so many decisions to be made without regard to the workers affected/environment/national interest/safety (untill the government forced them)
I have thought for years that we need several more viable parties, and I always vote for a third party whenever I can.
strk
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Yea but those third parties are a joke. And of course there is the "Catch 22" of thier existance - they have no power and no responsibilities and no decisions to make and nobody to be accountable to. The second any of those third parties got power they would start playing the game with whatever interst groups were around at the time whether they be unions or business, same thing really - union is basically a corporation that sells value added labor services - so it's all the same. Of course there are also seniors groups, environmentalists, political activist groups, religious groups and so on and so on...
Frankly any government or administation regardless of party alignment will have to deal with these interst groups because in the end these intrest groups do represent segments of the population with viable and yes, often competing concerns - otherwise it would be a dictatorship.
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Government is like trying to deal with "Corporate" at work. The higher up the person is, the harder they will screw you over just to get what they want, regardless of the consequences for you.
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I believe the conservative path is less destructive and overall better for the individual and this country than its liberal counterpart
since one party is far left and going further left each year, I have to vote the other party for check and balance sake
term limits for all would help keep them honest
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Originally posted by Eagler
since one party is far left and going further left each year, I have to vote the other party for check and balance sake
term limits for all would help keep them honest
I belive the same thing, except change the far left to far right.
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Originally posted by rpm371
I belive the same thing, except change the far left to far right.
guess we cancel each other out
Zero Sum :)
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I think the liberal view is much more patriotic.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I think the liberal view is much more pathetic.
Me too. ;)
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Originally posted by AKIron
I think MT is a god! ;)
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I'm waiting for the Whigs and Torries to come back into power.
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I think I'm just going to give up and have Lazs take me gun shopping.
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A couple of interesting books that illustrate the problem:
_The Best Democracy Money Can Buy_, by Greg Palast; and _Thieves in High Places_, by Jim Hightower. Both are fun reads.
Also, _Wealth and Democracy_, by Kevin Phillips. A bit more academic treatment of the issue.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I'm sure you guys are responsible for the delay of AH2. I haven't figured out how you did it yet but I 'm watching ya. ;)
Toad did it!
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toad... I do what a lot of people do... I pick one or two issues that I care about and then pick the party that is less likely to take those things away from me.
All parties are about taking stuff away from you so that they can have it or... no one can have it.
If any libertarian ever had a chance I would vote for him.... as it is... I vote against democrats so that less I care about is taken from me.
lazs
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lazs2: If any libertarian ever had a chance I would vote for him.... as it is... I vote against democrats so that less I care about is taken from me.
We must vote for Bush, even if we had to hold our nose. The alternative is unthinkable! The Democrats might get in! Then we would have abortion, gay rights, affirmative action, judicial tyranny, socialized medicine, federalised education, protectionist tariffs, needless foreign war, massive spending, deficits, and debt! Save what is left of America! Vote Republican! Yeah, right...
The hard-core libertarian thinking is "do not vote, it only encourages them".
The pragmatic libertarian thinking is to vote for anything that would disrupt the state machine and reduce its efficiency. If the Congress and Senate stay republican, I am voting for Hillary. If elected, she would not be allowed to implement as much socialism as Bush would.
miko
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The pragmatic libertarian thinking is to vote for anything that would disrupt the state machine and reduce its efficiency.
Sounds to me like anarchism, Miko. No thanks. The only thing worse than a person who believes in the wrong thing is a person who believes in nothing.
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Our best governments are zero-sum. Power is split between the parties, so neither side's lunatic fringe are able to push their agenda. Its when one side or the other gets dominant within the government that things start going to ****.
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banana: Sounds to me like anarchism, Miko. No thanks. The only thing worse than a person who believes in the wrong thing is a person who believes in nothing.
Nice example of twisting people's statements complelety opposite to what's being said.
Are you discouraging the holy system of "Checks and Balances" and promoting tyrany, while slandering me as an anarchist (not that I expect you to know what an anarchist is) for upholding the principles on which this country was based?
How come when you vote for, say, a democrat in order to disrupt a smooth working of republican machine, you are not an anarchist while if I vote the same democrat, I am a nihilist and anarchist?
Just because you love Hillary and I vote for her as a lesser evil, not liking any of the choices currently available to me, I somehow "believe in nothing"? Don't you even realise that there are more things in the world than Bush or Hillary to believe in?
You are just too ignorant of the other options than the two major parties indistinguisheable policies.
What I believe in would take you years of study to learn in an outline, if you cared to expand your horisons rather than pretend it's "nothing".
The civilisation we achieved was not built by socialist governments, no matter what your government propaganda sold as education said.
miko
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There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
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The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.
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Miko... you are thinking much too grandly... I don't think in those terms... I think on a smaller more personal scale... democrats will take my guns and cars away from me and make me wear seatbelts and helmets and such. They will tax my money when I die. Libertarians are more in line with my thinking but they don't have a chance in hell of getting elected to anything.
Hillary will get more of my personal freedoms taken away. I simply want to make sure that more of the people who fear me are elected.
If gay rights were a huge thing with me or abortion whatever I would vote on those issues.
lazs
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lazs2: democrats will take my guns and cars away from me and make me wear seatbelts and helmets and such. They will tax my money when I die.
So will republicans. Especially if the president and the Congress are the same party.
miko
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No... this is not the case... at least not in the 30 or so years I have been following it. Voting records on gun control are a mattter of public record. If you allow dems in you will get more gun control from those women.
lazs
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Well, MT, the times sure changed.. but nothing else did.
There's really nothing in the streets looks any different to me. Cept maybe more people with tattoos and silver bones in their nostrils.
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democrats will take my guns and cars away from me
probably true, but when the republicans are in I can't afford any of that stuff anyway.
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You got something against tatoos in the nostrils?
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apathy... I would much rater worry about how I'm gonna afford something than the fact that it is banned (for my own good of course).... I have had some money problems when dems were in too.... the worst ones actually.... Carter comes to mind.
I can't help but wonder tho how you think higher taxes helps me.
lazs
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So really... unless you are a starry eyed kid or.... a woman.... quit pretending.... you vote on one or two issues that are important to yu.. it's all you can do realistically, given the current system and the current choices..
maybe the libertarians or the green party or whatever has all that you desire but.... they are a joke.. a wasted vote unless the lesser of two evils (dem/rep) that you will be able to stomach is gonna win by a landslide anyway. Then vote oddball to send a message... otherwise... in a close race... you need to vote for the major party that hurts your lifestyle the LEAST
if you are a gay potsmoker.... don't pretend that unions are your big issue to vote democrat.. but you might not want to vote peace and freedom in a close election between a dem and a republican.
If you are a gun shooting hot rodder you want to make sure that you never vote dem unless he is the 1 in 100 that is not pimping to the women and the wussy.
and yes... it is just that simple.... currently.
lazs