Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: popeye on December 05, 1999, 11:05:00 AM
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You see a countryman involved in an isolated 1v1. He may have a slight advantage in E or position, but neither plane has a clear advantage.
A. You stay in sight of the fight, climbing to gain E, ready to help out if necessary.
B. You buzz the enemy a couple of times to distract him.
C. You get between the 1v1 and the enemy field to intercept incoming bad guys.
D. You charge in with guns blazing to "help" your countryman make the kill.
What would YOU do?
popeye
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Realising I am just delaying the inevitable, I would do the following: "enter" "enter" "enter" - "o"
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A in most cases, C fairly often, enemy is probably not alone, B if it takes too long or enemy is superior pilot, and D if the countryman came to "help" me or enemy flies a P 51D (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Always D.
I am no great shot but if I am serious he has 2 threats and my countryman will have a better chance of getting his kill.
And I have had too many cases of being in 1 on 1 and seeing my situations ignore to accept a or b. I _never_ turn down help, that way I live longer!
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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Hristo, the p51 may be overmodelled but it is still no 1v1 dogfighter
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Neither is 190A-8, and it seems modeled fairly here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I'll manuver for a fight entry watching for 3 things.
First, if the bandit is shooting my friend, I'll hurry up a bit, accept a worse entry (less of a tail conversion, lower Pk shot) in order to get guns on target as soon as possible to help save my bud.
Second, if they're truly neutral, I'll take my time, set up a good entry, and make a nice clean, timely kill and we can go looking for more bandits to kill.
Third, if as I get closer, I see my friend saddling up for a shot or actually shooting, I'll lag off, avoid flying right in front of him, and set up just above the fight in a position where I can immediately end the fight if my friend makes a mistake and goes defensive.
Of course, sometimes I ignore all that and just dive in guns blazing, but what the hell, sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Usually I constantly evaluate the situation so I don't waste ammo or cause my friend to take killshooter damage by pinging me if I fly in front of him. Remember, especially when there are other hostiles nearby, the goal is to get as quick a kill as possible so your fight doesn't attract other bandits that will kill you instead.
Oh yea... If I see 4-5 friendlies chasing around one bandit, I'll usually give them 30 seconds to a minute to make the kill. If they haven't done it by then, I'll set up a high-Pk fight entry and show them how it's done (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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if the friendly plane is defensive, i will do everything possible to put tracers in the attacker's FOV to try to spook him. if everyone came to the aid of their countrymen everyone's kill ratio would go up. unfortunately, almost every time i get killed (which is a lot!) my train of thought is, 'this friendly is in perfect position to cover me if this hostile engages...' i guess i never learn. i hate to rant and rave, but if a friendly is clearly in a better offensive position than you are, LET HIM TAKE THE KILL AND COVER HIS prettythang! everyone will live longer and he might do the same for you.
(now you've really got me going!)
everyone talks about the accuracy of the simulation, how true-to-life it is. i think in real life pilots would do what they can to aid fellow countrymen, even if it meant engaging without a clear-cut advange. countless times i have seen planes refuse to engage in battles with even numbers while waiting for one low-and-slow enemy they can easily kill. their plane could have turned the tide of battle to his team's favor. several of the 'top' pilots i have seen out there would have been courts-martialed long ago for desertion!
i guess it's a side-effect of keeping score; it turns people into individuals chasing their kill ratios instead of team players.
just my 5 cents,
shower
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If the con is in an overmodeled dweebstang. Shoot him, shoot his chute, find his grave and blow his headstone all to hell.
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A,B and C. Rarely D anymore, because I've had to many excellent fights broken up by fellow countryman jumping in to 'help' me. I never get mad at them for doing it, however. Why should I, I'm still alive (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). But, I don't want to chance ruining a good fight for someone unless they call for help.
ts
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a, b, or c... never d unless he asks for help. I've even watched an enemy win the 1vs1 over my countryman but I won't move in unless he asks me too.
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i think in real life pilots would do what they can to aid fellow countrymen, even if it meant engaging without a clear-cut advange. countless times i have seen planes refuse to engage in battles with even numbers while waiting for one low-and-slow enemy they can easily kill.
...and countless times I have watched one friendly dive into 5-6 enemies right on the apron of the enemy base. If you want to talk "real life" the only reason such a pilot wouldn't get court-martialed is that they would be dead. Spending 10-15 minutes climbing to alt only to dive right into the very first on-the-deck furball just doesn't seem very wise. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Some guys are in this for the quickest action they can find; others want to simulate (as nearly as possible) the feel of real life action against a foreign enemy, within the historical context. Criticizing someone for wanting to live through their mission is attempting to deprive others of their "fun".
Finally, how many times have I dove to the aid of a single friendly, only to find him dead just as I enter the mass of grinning gang-bangers? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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"What would YOU do?"
Take them both out. the enemy cause, well he is the enemy.
And the friendly because, well he sucked and played with is food too long.
Curly
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I would hold position until called or until the freindly looked like he was trying to lead him towards me or under me. If my guy is overmached for the kind of fight hes in(spit on tail of 190)I will go to D. Never B unless some other reason is there to maintain getaway path.
When I am engaged, If I cant get the guy down in the first pass or two I welcome the help.
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It also depends. If it's a good fight, let it go, at least until the friendly loses the advantage. If the friendly with the advantage couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and is clearly gonna blow it against a superior adversary (=if you see the icon "Dinger" above his plane), might as well dive in and save his sorry butt.
As for diving in to help countrymen, sure it's important. But you need to be able to distinguish between heroism and suicide. It isn't historically accurate to lose repeatedly entire squadrons of fighters because they all opt to save their buddy who went scraping the mud.
I remember one of the Brand W BoB scenarios, where I screwed up in a 109, got greedy and turned -- once -- with a hurricane. Soon there are .303s flying all over the place -- I'm in a cloud of enemies. I look up and see -ik- and buile circling 5000 feet above, like cruel gods, and I know that *I* screwed the pooch and there's nothing they can do. So I dive to the deck, and head, smoking, for the coast; fortunately, nor were the RAF pilots so suicidal as to follow me down.
Yes, it's imperative to help your buddies. But most warriors would rather be alive rather than make their bid to receive the CMH .
Here's a follow up question:
A high enemy engages you in 1 v 1, pings you, without damage, then flies off to harass a fellow countryman Co-E. Do you:
A. Forget about the insult and let them duke it out.
B. Go over and try to distract the enemy into trying to engage you again, to set up the drag.
C. Wait till the enemy blows enough E to get below you, then avenge the injury to your pride.
D. Wait until the enemy tries to dive away or even ditch, the friendly leaves (or sets up a BnZ pass), then go for the easy and merciless kill.
I think I've done about all of them at one time or another, often to the great irritation of my friendlies. I'm just wondering how many of you out there get sufficiently ticked to hunt down and kill those who mess up your paint job.
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Anyone who shoots at me is fair game.
Anyone who doesn't shoot at me is fair game.
Anyone who thought about shooting me is fair game.
Anyone who didn't think about shooting me is fair game.
Anyone who finds themselves at an E disadvantage is fair game.
Whether or not I attack is determined by a combination of: mood, position, and relative risk. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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-kier-
I think you have captured my feelings on this subject quite eliquently! There is never an easy stock answer to weighty question like this. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) In general if you kill the enemy be it 1 v 1
or 5 v 1 you have accomlished your goal. As for all this namby pambly, honor, do-gooder stuff and impose your rules and moral flight code crap on me types... well I say "kill the enemy" and get on with it! Oh, and have a good time and enjoy the Game.. after all thats what is is! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I don't need ne stinkin pilot to tell me I shouda done this or that! If he is a squadie or somebody I have flown with we probably knows exactly what we expect from each other. I have learned over a long period that you generally create your own circumstances and I don't expect a fellow pilot to come into a situation that is in his mind going to jeopordize him due to a careless mistake or poor judgement on my part. I clear my buddy's six and expect him to do the same but as to the fine etiquite of what to do.... thats an individual matter! If the real question is should I jump into someone elses 1 v 1 fight ... depends on who it is and how I feel at the time!
Thunder
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i'm not talking about committing certain suicide, i'm talking about even fights where your airframe could make the difference. i was in the Navy for 7 years including desert shield, desert storm, and others. in real life you have to be willing to put yourself in harm's way to accomplish the objective. obviously you want to minimize the risks if possible, but if not you still have the objective to meet. and no matter what branch you're in or for that matter what country you fight for, the number one rule is PROTECT YOUR BUDDIES. there's a reason for this.
-shower
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A, B and C and also what eagl said. Although I had D happen to me many times yesterday.
There's nothing I hate more than working a bandit for 2 or 3 min taking an advantage away from him, only to have somebody come hit his stalled plane 2 seconds before I can get around to kill him myself. This happens alot too. Remember, just because the bogie's on my 6 doesn't meen he has the advantage (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I think it's always better to stay about 1500 ft. or so above the fight (if your bud has the advantage) and protect him. If the fight is neutral, I will usualy make a NON-shooting pass to distract the bogie and hopefuly give my friend the advantage. Otherwise I stay high and wait for more bogies or for my friend to lose the advantage. Just by being there though, you can cause the bandit to turn with you in mind which can give your wingman the break he needs.
Then ofcourse there are the times when I NEEEEEED that kill and I just go in guns-a-blazing....
Udie
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Shower,
I served in 1966 thru 1972 and in "Real Life" I agree with you in principle. When I mentioned that it depends on who it is and how I feel at the time. I wasn't refering to what you are by helping your fellow countrymen. Example:# (1) A experienced squadmate and or a pilot whos loyalties are primarily to your country and have been exhibited as such.#(2) A newbie pilot that hasn't got a clue as to what he is getting himself into. #(3) A experienced pilot from another country who is visiting because the odds seem to favor him but will leave as soon as this changes hehe (scoremonger)! I might look at the fight and make my decision to help emediatly or standbye or not help based a number of factors and they all change. Just as in battle, "you earn the respect and trust of those you go into harms way with". In a "game" I may not always help a "rookie" that continually doesn't learn from his mistakes. This prolongs his learning by always saving his butt and puts you in needless risk hehe. Likewise I may not always be there "Johnie on the spot" if I am going to help protect someone elses K/D ratio that who most likely going to try and kill me or foil my next mission in a few minutes. In real life the Germans didn't come to England to shoot down the Lufftwaffe when the numbers got bad and there kill streaks could be inhanced. I like an aspect of realism but don't get hung up in it because it is impossible to totally acheive from any number of aspects. Playability and having fun are a great part of this game. I guess if I am honest each time I fly I feel different, numbers and players are different and so are the desissions I make.
Salute,
Thunder
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good point thunder. perhaps HTC can devise a way to motivate people to stay with one country. perhaps a point system with seperate scores for each country, so if someone divides his time between country A and country B, he will have roughly half the points (in each score) as someone he plays solely for country A ==> lower in rankings...
-shower
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Three steps to aid my buddy:
Go nose down and grab supersonic in my pony.
Fly like a BAT OUT OF HELL *through* the fight (if I remeber, shoot my guns) thereby throwing everyone into a tizzy.
Lose all control and gently blend into surrounding terrain.
Yeager
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Yeager,
Just reverse the controls and she'll fly right out. You of all people should know that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!