Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on October 01, 2003, 05:15:15 PM
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http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2309202,00.html (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2309202,00.html)
The associated press story...here's some highlights:
America's consumers - flush with tax cuts that left them with extra cash in their wallets - ratcheted up their spending by a strong 0.8 percent in August, helping to power an economic resurgence.
The advance in spending reported by the Commerce Department on Monday came on top of an even bigger 0.9 percent increase in July as larger paychecks and other incentives from President Bush's third tax cut began to take hold.
The August spending figure was in line with economists' expectations.
"It was almost like Christmas in August," said Richard Yamarone, economist with Argus Research Corp. "Consumers are really supporting the expansion with a voracious appetite for spending." On Wall Street, stocks moved higher. The Dow Jones industrials gained 67 points and the Nasdaq 32 on Monday.
Meanwhile, Americans' disposable incomes, or what's left after taxes, increased 0.9 percent in August, following a 1.5 percent jump in July.
The government attributed much of the increase in disposable incomes in July and August to the president's tax cut, which lowered federal tax withholdings, boosting people's take-home pay.
Excluding the tax impact, disposable incomes increased by a more modest 0.3 percent in July and 0.2 percent in August.
The spending and income figures are not adjusted for price changes.
Consumer spending accounts for roughly two-thirds of all economic activity in the United States. Because of that, the behavior of shoppers is a major factor in shaping the economy's recovery.
Consumers are keeping their pocketbooks and wallets sufficiently open to keep the nation's cash registers humming and the economic rebound chugging forward.
The economy grew at a 3.3 percent rate in the second quarter of this year, and economists are predicting that it is now gaining even more momentum.
Many analysts think the economy is growing at a rate in excess of 5 percent in the current quarter and should be able to maintain growth above 4 percent in the final three months of the year.
That forecast, if correct, would represent the strongest back-to- back growth rates since the last two quarters of 1999.
Still, analysts caution that they have predicted second-half economic rebounds for three years that have failed to happen as consumers and companies grew cautious - concerned about their own financial situations as well as the economy's future.
Near rock-bottom short-term rates along with the latest round of tax cuts are helping to support consumer spending and offsetting the negative impact of a sluggish job market, economists say.
In August, businesses slashed jobs for the seventh month in a row. And, more recently, claims for unemployment benefits have remained stubbornly high.
The savings rate in August was the best showing since February.
WOW these tax cuts are sure hurting our economy if the AP is saying things are looking better. The author must not have got the memo that "tax cuts hurt the economy".:lol
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I wonder what we are going to do next quarter? cut taxes again? Am I geting another check in the mail? Oh and was this the 400$ per child tax cut that went out to everyone who paid taxes or was it the tax cut for the rich giving us some supply side voodoo trickle down??
strk
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Whoopee, a jobless recovery.
Yehaw.
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We've technically been in a recovery since 2001.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
We've technically been in a recovery since 2001.
shhhhhh
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Originally posted by Udie
shhhhhh
it.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Meanwhile, Americans' disposable incomes, or what's left after taxes, increased 0.9 percent in August, following a 1.5 percent jump in July.
Heh, do the math--if you have 50k of gross and after 25% taxes (12.5K) you have 37.5K net. Point oh-nine percent of that a month comes to a whopping $28.12.
Gonna go out and buy me a boat. :rolleyes:
h
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How can anyone be against a tax cut (in any shape and form) is beyond me.
Starve the f* beast which is eating us alive. 80-90 % of things they spend the money on is unconstitutional.
Yeah, I know, I know, but if f* "feels" good, so screw the Constitution.
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Originally posted by mietla
How can anyone be against a tax cut (in any shape and form) is beyond me.
Starve the f* beast which is eating us alive. 80-90 % of things they spend the money on is unconstitutional.
Yeah, I know, I know, but if f* "feels" good, so screw the Constitution.
It's all about buying votes. The more tax money, the more votes ya can buy.
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Who needs jobs with this wonderful utopia johnson created.
free health care for all, quality health care for none!
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Originally posted by AKIron
It's all about buying votes. The more tax money, the more votes ya can buy.
Exactly. I just pity those doofuses who buy this crap. "Soke the rich" they say.
Oh yeah? this simply means that they admit thay can't achieve anything in their lives, and just plan on staying losers for life.
Good for you...
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your right, lets cut the head off the largest tax spending beast. Cut all funds to all military expiditions right now.
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Sounds great.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
your right, lets cut the head off the largest tax spending beast. Cut all funds to all military expiditions right now.
Read the Constitution some time. The military is one of the very few legitimate jobs the feds are obligated to fund.
Besides, look at some numbers dude, the military spending is less than 10-15%. The rest is just pissed away.
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"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of
government. It can only exist until the voters
discover that they can vote themselves largesse
(generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that
moment on, the majority always votes for the
candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with
the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy,
(which is) always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilization
has been two hundred years. These nations have
progressed through this sequence. From bondage to
spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great
courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to
abundance; from abundance to complacency; from
complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence;
from dependence back into bondage."
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It's pretty simple.
Less Tax = More Freedom
More Tax = Less Freedom
What side YOU on?
*racks shotgun*
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Originally posted by banana
Whoopee, a jobless recovery.
Yehaw.
With economic recovery comes jobs...it aslo works the other way too....with jobs comes economic recovery
Originally posted by Horn
Heh, do the math--if you have 50k of gross and after 25% taxes (12.5K) you have 37.5K net. Point oh-nine percent of that a month comes to a whopping $28.12.
Gonna go out and buy me a boat.
h
Yea but it also says a 1.5% increase in the previous month (july) If you add July and august together its a combined total of a woping 2.4%. Now that may not be much but according to the handy windows calculater 2.4% of 37.5k is $900....it may not be a yacht but it might be a used bass boat without trailer:)
originally posted by mietla
How can anyone be against a tax cut (in any shape and form) is beyond me.
I have no idea!
:confused:
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hint when a goverment is deeply in debt. cutting taxes has never in history worked as a stimulus. and is plane stupid what you gonna pay the debt with? iraqs oil ?
giving money back you dont have is stupid.
p.s.
that artical is totaly rubbish written in fanboy style. .02 percent unajusted for inflation. "economists say" what economists say that ?
please do you even read them ?
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Originally posted by banana
it.
:rofl
that's like SO 3rd grade :D
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
hint when a goverment is deeply in debt. cutting taxes has never in history worked as a stimulus. and is plane stupid what you gonna pay the debt with? iraqs oil ?
giving money back you dont have is stupid.
What do you do when your income dries out? Stop f* spending, that's how you pay the debt.
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Originally posted by banana
Whoopee, a jobless recovery.
Yehaw.
Last I checked the want ads were full of vacent jobs. I have a job, so whats your malfunction???
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I'm not advocating debts, but for some magical reason the debt is the only thing that curbs this insane spending by Congress.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
giving money back you dont have is stupid.
it's not their money, it is mine (and perhaps yours if you pay any taxes).
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
hint when a goverment is deeply in debt. cutting taxes has never in history worked as a stimulus. and is plane stupid what you gonna pay the debt with? iraqs oil ?
giving money back you dont have is stupid.
p.s.
that artical is totaly rubbish written in fanboy style. .02 percent unajusted for inflation. "economists say" what economists say that ?
please do you even read them ?
Actually I can think of one real recent example.....the transition from the 80s to the 90s....OH wait i forgot ALGORE invented the internet and we had a boom...oops my bad:rofl
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Yea but it also says a 1.5% increase in the previous month (july) If you add July and august together its a combined total of a woping 2.4%. Now that may not be much but according to the handy windows calculater 2.4% of 37.5k is $900....it may not be a yacht but it might be a used bass boat without trailer:)
I have no idea!
:confused:
Per month!! Not per year--($3125, in our example)
h
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We're somehwere around...
Originally posted by FUNKED1 "The average age of the world's greatest civilization
has been two hundred years. These nations have
progressed through this sequence. From bondage to
spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great
courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to
abundance; from abundance to complacency; from
complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence;
from dependence back into bondage."
here.
-SW
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Oooo..
That's gotta sting, a little.
hehe...
I'm just gonna sit here and snicker at the tree-huggers for a while...
Maybe November '04 won't be what you hope, eh?
It's the economy, stupid!
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Is the price of gold going up, or down?
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The main reason i made this thread because I was shocked about what the left have done.
they blame bush for the economy and say "his tax cuts for the rich" will hurt the economy not help. Well I found an article (AP at that) that says there working. And the attention shifts from the economy to other things.
Q. What happens when the other things improve as well.
A. that start saying it was all his fault to begin with.
IE the Blame game. Its amazing how polotics works. I'm truely fascinated by it. Keep up the good posts and remember. Attack the subject not the person!
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GS-
They won't say he started all the problems. If things are going well, they'll find a democrat somewhere to take credit for it.
Look, guys. Partisan politics is senseless. It's more of a spectator sport than a form of government.
Some folks on this BBS are no different.
They can't see past their own party's agenda.
Sad, really.
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I was shocked
This is the third round of tax cuts, and as far as ai know the first impovement. One month of growth doesnt prove a hell of a lot, and it is quite possible that in a complex economy there are other factors at play.
Now some right wingers say the CLinton era boom was due to Reagan - so by that logic maybe this recovery could be atributable to CLinton?? I know that sounds ridiculous but it illustrates my point.
semper fi
strk
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Q. What happens when the other things improve as well.
What happens when they don't?
They'll blame the pres, welcome to American politics.
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Agreed STRK,
But on that same notion, Bush cant be blamed for an economy he inherited. It seems to me like anytime you get a republican gets in the white house people start yelling RECESION RECESION! and if he takes a dump wrong the DOW loses a couple hundred points.
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It seems to me like anytime you get a republican gets in the white house people start yelling RECESION RECESION! and if he takes a dump wrong the DOW loses a couple hundred points.
I know it, and the other side isnt any better.
How are you liking 29 stumps? hehe not much to do out there eh?
strk
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Originally posted by strk
I know it, and the other side isnt any better.
How are you liking 29 stumps? hehe not much to do out there eh?
strk
Been to the stumps and yuma many a times for the last 7 years....not there anymore but this place aint that much better. Been workin on my profile tonite....finally got my avatar and the quotes i like workin
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looks good
strk
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There is still this (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&ncid=68&e=3&u=/nyt/20031001/ts_nyt/slowingstreamofnewjobshelpstoexplainslump) .
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sandman I believe the jobs subject was talked about earlier in the thread....here was my reply if you missed it:
quote:
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Originally posted by banana
Whoopee, a jobless recovery.
Yehaw.
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My response:
With economic recovery comes jobs...it also works the other way too....with jobs comes economic recovery
Interesting article....but it referes to "But the number of jobs that businesses created in 2002 dropped to its lowest level since 1995."
Even in 95 things werent all that bad.
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Hmmmm...
Well, you have to start somewhere...
S&P futures vs fair value: -1.3. Nasdaq futures vs fair value: -2.5. The futures indications slip and now indicate a flat to slightly lower open for the cash market, despite the Initial Claims report, which at 399K shaped up for the second consecutive week of readings below 400K - a level indicative of payroll growth.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
your right, lets cut the head off the largest tax spending beast. Cut all funds to all military expiditions right now.
Are you kidding? It’s the one thing the constitution says the Government can spend money on. All the other crap is unconstitutional.
Further more Defense spending is at 3.3% of the GDP it was 8% in 1962 and has been going down ever since.
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Originally posted by mietla
How can anyone be against a tax cut (in any shape and form) is beyond me.
Because they do not pay taxes to start and are jealous of the ppl who do as those ppl make more money/live in better homes/drive nicer cars than they do
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First let me say I'm apolitical. The tax cut thing IMHO flies in the face of common sense when HUGE domestic fiscal issues remain unaddressed. Frankly, I'm talking about Social Security and Medicare. The baby boomers (born 1946ish to 1960ish) represent 76 million people. The Xers (say born 60 to 80) are roughly 51 million folks. As a result, the fact is there are more folks looking to get their benefits than will be paying in to the system. Add to that equation the fact that the boomers are living longer and will, therfore, draw benefits for a longer period. Tell me how it makes sense to add a drug benfit? As I said, I'm apoliotical but it sure looks to me like this is pandering to the AARP for votes.
Does a record fiscal deficit coupled with this eventuality scare you? I think it should. How many of you are prepared to fully fund your retirement and pay for you own healthcare once you are no longer working? If you are the typical consumer you are up to your eye-teeth in debt and have little or no liquidity. All this crowing about consumer spending spurring a recovery has some merit as something like 90% of our GDP comes from consumer spending. The question How long can it be sustained? Remember that savings growth rate in 2002 rose to 0% from prior years where we were actually in a dis-savings mode (spending more than we made...).
I'm sorry guys. I don't see much to get too excited about. I think the toughest road lies ahead.
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It’s the one thing the constitution says the Government can spend money on. All the other crap is unconstitutional.
Um, JBA. Not true. Please consult the 8th Section of the US Constitution and the 16th Amendment.
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Two months of increased spending is not a recovery.
And it's not a sound recovery when the money spent is credit.
Mr. Bush took a surplus and has now turned it into the largest defeceit. Just like Regan and Bush Senior did before him - it's the typical Republican solution to economic problems - whipped out the American Charge card, start a war, stomp over a 3rd world country, kill a few thousand minorites, and start charging on credit and let someone else pay the bill.
Who's going to pay the bill? Middle class Americans... Not the rich - because they got the tax cuts.
GOOD PLAN!
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http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/02/news/economy/jobless/index.htm?cnn=yes
Jobless numbers up by nearly 400,000 in the last week....yep looking like it's just peachy over there.......
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/02/news/economy/jobless/index.htm?cnn=yes
Jobless numbers up by nearly 400,000 in the last week....yep looking like it's just peachy over there.......
..and home foreclosures are up 46% over last year in the Denver area. Yeah, it's Just Swell.
h
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/02/news/economy/jobless/index.htm?cnn=yes
Jobless numbers up by nearly 400,000 in the last week....yep looking like it's just peachy over there.......
You are reading that data incorrectly.
The number 400,000 is initial jobless claims, but it is not a net number.
In other words, last week in the USA, 400,000 people could have gotten jobs last week, and a different 400,000 could have lost their jobs, and even though the unemployment level would be unchanged, that number would report a loss of 400,000 jobs.
I hope this help clarify. Bottom line, the unemployment rate in the US, released tomorrow is expected to by about 6.2%
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mmm thinks it's 4.1 percent in old socialist britain presently...
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
mmm thinks it's 4.1 percent in old socialist britain presently...
O.K., terrific!
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Yet me get this straight. Bush wasn't responsible the economy going in the crapper. The economy works in cycles.
But Bush is responsible for the supposed recovery??
:rofl
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Yet me get this straight. Bush wasn't responsible the economy going in the crapper. The economy works in cycles.
But Bush is responsible for the supposed recovery??
:rofl
First part yes. Second part no.
Bush or any president has little if any effect on the overall economy. Very few people realize this though and as you well know, must elections are decided by the state of the economy at the time of polling. Stupid? You betcha. But it's the world we live in.