Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: humble on October 02, 2003, 11:19:25 AM
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Had an interesting pattern of events yesterday and this morning...was "defending" a base against CV attack late last night (10pm AZ time) and again at 7am this morning. I got nailed 3 times by CV ack well above the "tracer level" ack (8k or so) while roping various enemy fighters. All occurred as I was topping out and rev back...all credited to same guy. I've always viewed ack "golden bb's" as a matter of luck and occasionally you get nailed...never had 3 in one day let alone on almost consecutive hops...also normally dont see a "kill" awarded on "flak" kills that far from carrier (had to be 8k or more up and 8-10 out). I'm certainly not an ace but I'm also not a total dweeb....not a case of bad SA and an "invisable" plane. However the hits didnt quite sound right to me either....just curious if anyone else has had the same bad luck recently?
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Humble, I have the distinct impression that for the last one or two months, the CV ack has become more deadly. I cannot recall a single death due to ship ack (the 'puffy' kind, not the 'tracer' kind) before that and I have been flying for over a year.
A few weeks ago I brought a P-47 home and passed very high over an NME CV close to a friendly airfield. I was at 15K or so and some black puffs appeared. When passing over the carrier I started a gentle dive and was blown clear out of the sky at about 10k while doing 400mph TAS. That's not funny anymore.
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It's my opinion that the Flak seems inconsistent. Being that this is a computer game we'd tend to want consistency. But since this a simulation of sorts maybe some perceived inconsistency is a good thing in some areas to represent real life conditions.
On a more personal note it does seem that the Flak has been turned up, whether it has or not I don't know.
Once I see the flak start going off around me I instantly assume my flight time just became very limited. If I want to live I try to exit the umbrella as soon as possible. Most of the time I just wait for the inevitable(death), which occasionaly doesn't happen.
And LePaul makes a good point too about it possibly being manned.
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Ever consider it was just a darn good gunner?
I can't hit a thing with an Osty...but I know some folks who are downright deadly from 3k out.
Using the Zoom keys, I'm pretty good with those ack guns (puff ones you refer to)...I'm whallooped a fair share of buffs who thought they were home free flying at 10k above machine gun ack
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i ALWAYS get killed by black fluffy ack if i go above 3k for longer than 1 minute or so near a cv.
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small aaa is deadly til 9.5k. 5 inch can kill you in space, theres no alt limit.
5 inch is active above 3k
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Since I got a "killed by" message I'm assuming it was manned 5 in vs "puffy" ack. Amazed someone could ping me in a fight at 15k+ range more than once in smae day....:eek:
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Originally posted by humble
Since I got a "killed by" message I'm assuming it was manned 5 in vs "puffy" ack. Amazed someone could ping me in a fight at 15k+ range more than once in smae day....:eek:
5" guns are not that hard to hit with.
Try them sometimes and you will see.
I suk big time in ostwind, but in a 5 inch I am deadly.
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One thing folks ferget-- ya look at altimeter and see '8k' and think ya are safe---WRONG---5" is good to 4k..YARDS, at least---that translates to 12k alt (Having said that, ive been blown out of sky by unmanned ack from so fediddlein far I Cant even SEE the cv)
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the 5" fires a proximity fused shell, so it dosn't have to hit you, just has to get close.
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no, there's definately something buggy, my P-47s get nailed at 22k within 20 miles of a CV about 40% of the time.
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Whats confusing to me is that I'm well outside the icon range...so the gunner has to be firing "blind" at multiple planes at long range....just amazed I'd get hit 3 times in 5 or so hops. Since a kill was awarded each time (to same guy) I'm assuming I wasnt killed by ack (fluffy stuff) but by a manned 5 inch.
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Originally posted by humble
Whats confusing to me is that I'm well outside the icon range...so the gunner has to be firing "blind" at multiple planes at long range....just amazed I'd get hit 3 times in 5 or so hops. Since a kill was awarded each time (to same guy) I'm assuming I wasnt killed by ack (fluffy stuff) but by a manned 5 inch.
The manned 5 inch ack is fluffy ack, isn't it?
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I'm not a bad shot in 5" guns.. most of the time i can hit bombers and jabo from 3.0, sometimes 4.0 if i can track it long enough.. If it's flying straight away i can hit from 5.0 and farther pretty consistantly.. heck, i can fire blindly into a swarm of black dots and get kills.. Fairly easy to down planes, but you can see the big 5 inch tracer (the gunner can't, you can) tracking ya if you're lookin for it
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I don't know if the manned 5" is "fluffy" or not....obviously I need to spend a bit of time playing gunner on the CV's to get a feel for em...had an "invisable plane" comment on CH 1 last night from someone else around CV...guy who hit him was firing 5"....guess you can snipe pretty well with a 5":eek:
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i dunno, ive noticed this also, ive been playin awhile and i never use to worry bout ack above 10k though i know it can be deadly, But starting about 4 days ago i got naild 4 times 10k + over CV so now i pay alot more respect to it
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The range of a 5" gun on a ship is about 17 thousand yards, horizontal. It can fire either a proximity flak round or high explosive. It can use the land and sea modes as well as manual. The proximity flak shell is trigured by a magnetic sensor causing it to detonate when it is close to a target. Hitting the target isn't required, but sure does a good job when it does =o)
It seems the AI ship ack starts firing at about 8 thousand yards. The icon of the plane becomes visible just under 6 thousand yards. It becomes fairly easy to hit an enemy target at 5 thousand yards. At 3 thousand yards (9000 feet) an enemy plane faces almost certain death, unless it is doing some major maneuvering. A plane doing a rope-a-dope over a carrier topping out at 3 or 4 thousand yards is suicidal.
I commonly kill at 3K, am not surprised to kill at 5K and have killed at 10K or more (which has irritated a few =o). Someone really good, like Whels I suspect, can probably flick a fly off your windshield at 3K.
Flying directly at or away from the ship takes a death wish. A formation of buffs flying just above the water at a CV are a gunner's delight. The hardest thing to hit is a formation of heavey buffs coming in at 10,000 feet or more. There are three planes to hit and each requires so many hits to take it down it's really tough to accomplish before they pickle their bombs.
The nemisis of the 5 inch guns is the planes and PT boats surrounding the carrier. They trip the proximity fuse before it can reach the enemy.
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I think the accuracy is stupid but that's the way it is. ;)
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Originally posted by BNM
I think the accuracy is stupid but that's the way it is. ;)
Why... because a CV can defend itself? What's stupid is having bombers fly over and sink carriers at will. We need more of these kind of defenses, not less.
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Griz,
My "floor" over CV's is usually about 6k...rarely to I get down to where I'm in the "tracer" fire. On these kills I was about 8k-10k up and offset outside the carrier group by 5k or so...on the fringe of the puffy ack envelope. I'd say I was well inside the 17,000 range but outside the range you mention...shots were 10k min(on 2 of the 3)...which would but them outside icon range from your post? The third was much closer in...probably right in the 6k range.
Does the gunner select prox fuse...and how??
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lazs map would have 3 fields.. and they'd OVERLAP
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Originally posted by humble
Griz,
My "floor" over CV's is usually about 6k...rarely to I get down to where I'm in the "tracer" fire. On these kills I was about 8k-10k up and offset outside the carrier group by 5k or so...on the fringe of the puffy ack envelope. I'd say I was well inside the 17,000 range but outside the range you mention...shots were 10k min(on 2 of the 3)...which would but them outside icon range from your post? The third was much closer in...probably right in the 6k range.
Does the gunner select prox fuse...and how??
Humble, any time the gunner is using AA shells they are prox fused. And yes, lately I have been hit a lot more by fleet ack.
And yes, I think whels COULD flick a fly off my canopy at 3k. He is deadly with those guns.
shubie
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I have got kills out to 7-8k on a regular basis. Once you learn the drop and the lead, 5 k shots are easy, once killed an la7 at about7k, gawd that pilot was mad. If you have the 5 inch guns manned by people that understand lead and drop, it is almost impossible to get close, it takes mass suicide diving buffs to sink the cv.
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If only 1 person is manning CV guns I believe they get kills on all the 5 inchers.Then again I could be wrong but Ive gotten kills on 5" without fireing at the target.Just because I was the only manned gun/
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Originally posted by DrDea
If only 1 person is manning CV guns I believe they get kills on all the 5 inchers.Then again I could be wrong but Ive gotten kills on 5" without fireing at the target.Just because I was the only manned gun/
You are getting proximity kills from the AI ack killing bandets... and the suicidal jabos hitting the drink. The five inchers don't fire without a gunner. And unlike a bomber, the other five inch guns don't shoot at what you're shooting at.
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Originally posted by humble
Griz,
My "floor" over CV's is usually about 6k...rarely to I get down to where I'm in the "tracer" fire. On these kills I was about 8k-10k up and offset outside the carrier group by 5k or so...on the fringe of the puffy ack envelope. I'd say I was well inside the 17,000 range but outside the range you mention...shots were 10k min(on 2 of the 3)...which would but them outside icon range from your post? The third was much closer in...probably right in the 6k range.
Does the gunner select prox fuse...and how??
Perhaps you are confused because altitude is measured in feet and distance in yards. Your bomber at 10K (10,000 feet) is at 3.3K (3,333 yards) range for my 5" guns. This is suicidal. You can be at 15,000 feet and still be apt to get shot down. Try 20,000 to be relatively safe. =o\
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Originally posted by Grizzly
Why... because a CV can defend itself? What's stupid is having bombers fly over and sink carriers at will. We need more of these kind of defenses, not less.
I have no problem with CVs defending themselves. The accuracy of the ack however is a joke. I've gotten killed from 1/2 a sector away not even heading toward (or knew it was there). It's stupid but it's how HT made it I guess so I avoid it like the plague anymore. No biggie. ;)
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Originally posted by BNM
I have no problem with CVs defending themselves. The accuracy of the ack however is a joke. I've gotten killed from 1/2 a sector away not even heading toward (or knew it was there). It's stupid but it's how HT made it I guess so I avoid it like the plague anymore. No biggie. ;)
A half sector away? I admit that would be a bit too much to take, but it don't happen often. It's more of a freakish type of thing. But it sure does piss off some guys >=o)
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Originally posted by Grizzly
Perhaps you are confused because altitude is measured in feet and distance in yards. Your bomber at 10K (10,000 feet) is at 3.3K (3,333 yards) range for my 5" guns. This is suicidal. You can be at 15,000 feet and still be apt to get shot down. Try 20,000 to be relatively safe. =o\
I was watching that last night...you could see the shells going up...some went on by the close ones "popped"...from the height on the strays it seemed like 15,000+ was still in range. CV had all 5" manned (4??) and they were doing a damm good job laying out an "ack wall"