Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: FUNKED1 on October 02, 2003, 01:54:56 PM
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Not a racist.
He did 3 foolish things:
1. Brought politics into a sports show.
2. Assumed sports fans and sports media are intelligent enough to discern between Rush making a racist statement and Rush accusing the media of being racists.
3. He "pissed off the moderator" as I often say about people who get banned here. The moderator being his employer, whom he implicitly accused of racism.
I don't know if he's a racist or not - his statement is indeterminate - but he's definitely a fool.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Assumed sports fans and sports media are intelligent enough to discern between Rush making a racist statement and Rush accusing the media of being racists.
Either way, I don't want to hear it on my sunday football show.
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Agreed. I don't watch those shows anyways. The games start at 10am here, so I just watch games until 4pm, then get dinner, then watch the Sunday Night game. The only NFL shows I see are Inside the NFL (HBO) and Chris Berman's halftime show on Sunday Night.
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I listened to an interview with Warren Moon. He had a question...
What were Sterling Sharpe and Tom Jackson doing? No rebuttal... nothing?
They were there.
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...and they're continuing to be quiet...hoping the cloud of controversy passes over them..trying not to attract any lightening bolts
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I think TJ and Sterling must have been too shocked to speak. I heard a blurb from Rush where he said he resigned because of the effect his comments had on the crew. Maybe TJ and Sterling gave him an earfull once they were off the air?
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10AM football, must be nice to live on the left coast:cool:
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Originally posted by Sixpence
10AM football, must be nice to live on the left coast:cool:
Even better is 6pm football on Monday night. :D
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Originally posted by LePaul
...and they're continuing to be quiet...hoping the cloud of controversy passes over them..trying not to attract any lightening bolts
Yep, they are just a couple of washed-up dumb jocks who hit the TV jackpot. I can't imagine them doing anything to jeopardize the paycheck.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
10AM football, must be nice to live on the left coast:cool:
Yep, roll out of bed, crack a beer, and away we go. :)
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Football is biased to the left..........coast:eek:
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I listened to an interview with Warren Moon. He had a question...
What were Sterling Sharpe and Tom Jackson doing? No rebuttal... nothing?
They were there.
Maybe they agree
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Originally posted by LePaul
trying not to attract any lightening bolts
Why should they worry about that? The Bolts are pretty harmless this year :)
(http://www.signonsandiego.com/gallery/albums/030922bal/chargers_ravens8.jpg)
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Even better is 6pm football on Monday night. :D
aren't most of ya still sitting in traffic then? :)
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Originally posted by JBA
Maybe they agree
Being prominent examples of the same NFL affirmative action policies that Rush belittled, I doubt very much that they would agree with him. You never know though.
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Originally posted by Eagler
aren't most of ya still sitting in traffic then? :)
Around here, "traffic" is four other cars in front of me at the stop sign. :D
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I only live about 10 miles from work, and my direction of travel is counter-commute. So it's about a 10 minute trip. :)
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Around here, "traffic" is four other cars in front of me at the stop sign. :D
Heh, and it still takes you 45 minutes to get to work
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Heh, and it still takes you 45 minutes to get to work
-Sik
Only if I obey the law. :)
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Originally posted by JBA
Maybe they agree
I saw the media clip posted in another thread here. It has the statement and the discussion. Tom Jackson had a bit to say and Steve Young even disagreed with him.
My take... good discussion completely overblown out of proportion.
I don't like Rush, but he should have stuck to his guns and stayed at ESPN. In my book, he loses points for running away and playing the "liberal biased media victim" card.
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Anyone who has taken Rush seriously over the years is half-witted in my opinion. He's entertainment, not information.
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Sterling isn't on the show anymore, Michael Irving replaced him.
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actually, if you take the replay, at the moment we all figure out what's going on, those guys flinch, cover their mouths with a "Holy toejam" look on their faces.
The sports media is weird. One the one hand, they don't have the pretentions to objectivity that news outfits claim, and yet they make a good deal of their hay on opinionated idiots commenting on issues they know nothing about.
At the same time, there are people who take their job seriously, and who see themselves as news professionals who cover sports issues.
And all of this is to cover a sports world that's the oddest collection of a group of players who are there on athletic merit, some of whom become overhyped superstars and who are managed by one of the most visible old-boys-network out there.
Still, I'm sure that when someone in ESPN decided to bring in Rush Limbaugh, there was a great deal of resistance. After all, in the "opinionated prettythang" category, there are plenty of people with a sports background. Rush's qualifications have nothing to do with sports competence: he's just there to be an prettythang and make money. So I'm sure this misstep made many folks in ESPN upset who didn't think he should have been there to begin with. Add to that the fact this is a network that often has all-black anchors on sportscenter, and even a female calling football play-by-play, and slipping out a comment like that is going to piss people off.
Rush's radio m.o. is to take the right-wing p.c. line ("Political Correctness" = "adhering to a popular body of doctrine without understanding the reasoning behind it"), and cover his ignorance by appealing to popular prejudices. That works on the radio, preaching to the choir, but bring it to the morning football discussions, and you're in a world of hurt.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Anyone who has taken Rush seriously over the years is half-witted in my opinion. He's entertainment, not information.
When an idiot "entertainer" makes racist remarks, it is not halfwitted to take them seriously. Especially when the idiot entertainer has a huge audience of half witted listeners.
No One Told Rush Limbaugh There’d Be Colored People (http://thebrushback.com/rush_full.htm)
Upon futher review, I think Rush was just being stupid instead of racist on ESPN. He is however, a racist.
As to the allegation that there are too few voting precincts in minority areas for the 10/7 recall Limbaugh said that location “didn’t matter since blacks and Hispanics were bused to precincts anyway”.
He once told a Black caller to his radio show to “take that bone out of your nose and call me back.”
“Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?”
In 1992, on his now-defunct TV show, Limbaugh expressed his ire when Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren get off from school to see his film Malcolm X: "Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out."
In a similar vein, here is Limbaugh's mocking take on the NAACP, a group with a ninety-year commitment to nonviolence: "The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."
When Carol Moseley-Braun (D-IL) was in the U.S. Senate, the first black woman ever elected to that body, Limbaugh would play the "Movin' On Up" theme song from TV's "Jeffersons" when he mentioned her. Limbaugh sometimes still uses mock dialect -- substituting "ax" for "ask"-- when discussing black leaders.
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Around here, "traffic" is four other cars in front of me at the stop sign.
ditto.. well ok.. maybe only 1 car on a bad day.
and there's no stop sign on the way to work...
but there is one on the way home..
actually there is a problem with little to no commute...
the car never warms up
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To get to the heart of the matter.
Rush should go on the O'Reilley factor and let Bill sort this all out.
After all O'Reiley is looking out for us, and he did win not just one but two prestigious Peabody awards for accurate news reporting while he was on Inside Edition.
Let Rush tell his story, and let O'Reilley stop the spin!
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I like Rush. Good band back in the 80's
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Originally posted by midnight Target
When an idiot "entertainer" makes racist remarks, it is not halfwitted to take them seriously. Especially when the idiot entertainer has a huge audience of half witted listeners.
No One Told Rush Limbaugh There’d Be Colored People (http://thebrushback.com/rush_full.htm)
Upon futher review, I think Rush was just being stupid instead of racist on ESPN. He is however, a racist.
Your from Rio Linda aren't you? :D
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What were Sterling Sharpe and Tom Jackson doing? No rebuttal... nothing?
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I have heard that one of them said that rush "had a point". Dont know which one though. Could check to see if anyone has a transcript.
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"Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out."
-- the racist Pigboy, attacking Spike Lee in 1992, on his now-defunct TV show, expressing his ire when Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren get off from school to see his film Malcolm X:
"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."
-- the racist Pigboy, attacking the NAACP for associating with black Americans
The hardcore Dittoheads will undoubtedly see this as an attempt by a liberal to take down a conservative icon.
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You are being too selective in your quotes. what was the context of the conversations you so cleverly manipulate?
Wait a tic! I recall the spike lee incident. limbaugh was whining because he thought the kids were doing a far more important function by staying in school the entire day. lee was suggesting kids skip class. Rush was pissed because Spike lee was a role model to alot of those kids and here he is telling them to become truant. Also, spike lee has been accused of being a racist and a bigot so using his name to libel someone else hurts your cause. if you have one. you really need to be a bit more thorough in your slander if you want to make any sort of points with the down crowd around here.
the naacp thing just doesnt ring a bell. whats the story to that one?
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I still dont see any racism in his comment. I think a good equivalent would be
"I really want to see a white guy succeed in basketball" (GO GANZAGA)
Is there anything negative bout that...NO...being successful is a posative thing
This is the same double standard as if people had "White History Month" they'd be called racists.
Or how minority students can get into college to create "diversity" but when White students have an "affirmative Action Bake Sale" (was posted on another thread...I still think thats hilarious) to protest they are shunned as rascists and minoritys are "appauled" "HOW DARE MINORITIES LIKE US RECIEVE CHEAPER COOKIES!"
Bottom line is this...people hate Rush....thats it....if he was black his comments wouldnt have mattered...but people hate him and the media blasted him (wich he deserved) and the sheep followed suite.
anyways this is just dumb and demonstrates (the double standard) that if your a white guy your the "spawn of the great american satan" and "can do NO RIGHT" what so ever
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>>Bottom line is this...people hate Rush....thats it....
Ah... it's always boils down to something simple... like "people hate"
they just hate... for no reason..
people just hate Rush... well just because they like to hate...
and Rush is a nice moral guy standing up for what he believes in saying responsible decent things, god fearing and christian.
And people just hate him... doesn't make sense why they do.
They just hate him.
I agree some people hate Rush. It might have to do alot with the racist remarks which comes out of his mouth.
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I you are bent on finding racism, you'll find it everywhere.
A stop sign will do to prove racism...
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too f funny... MT u must be a memeber of the Al Gore Chain eemail...great quotes all taken out of context...they are all still funny tho eveven if they werent..lolo
There is DEFNTLY a bias in Sports..and espn and the rest...its all about...AFFIRMative action..
U frikn sissys...truth hearts??..lololo
Love
BiGB
lololol " all criminal skecthes resembl jesse jackson"..
spike lee.."skip school..see my movie"
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LOL Nexus
President Bush expressed support of beleaguered radio star Rush Limbaugh in conversations with senior staff on Thursday, a senior administration source told the DRUDGE REPORT.
"Rush is a great American," the president said of the host, who has championed the conservative movement for decades... MORE DRudgereport
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
>>Bottom line is this...people hate Rush....thats it....
Ah... it's always boils down to something simple... like "people hate"
they just hate... for no reason..
people just hate Rush... well just because they like to hate...
and Rush is a nice moral guy standing up for what he believes in saying responsible decent things, god fearing and christian.
And people just hate him... doesn't make sense why they do.
They just hate him.
I agree some people hate Rush. It might have to do alot with the racist remarks which comes out of his mouth.
Very well let me expand on what i was trying to say....
Over the years Rush has spouted opinions that people didnt particularly like. If these comments were racsist, leftist rightist eliteists it doesnt matter thats not the point.
the point is....these people will disagree with rush no matter what he says.....if he said the "grass is green" they'd find somthing wrong with that and nitpick it away to justify that his comment offended them.
If you think i'm wrong that thats no lost sleep for me but ponder this....If a black guy or an unknown anybody else made the comment (this takes objectivity I admit) WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH IT?
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Once, in response to a caller arguing that black people need to be heard, Limbaugh responded:
"They are 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares?"
When Carol Moseley-Braun (D-IL) was in the U.S. Senate, the first black woman ever elected to that body, Limbaugh would play the "Movin' On Up" theme song from TV's "Jeffersons" when he mentioned her.
Limbaugh sometimes still uses mock dialect -- substituting "ax" for "ask"-- when discussing black leaders.
As a young broadcaster in the 1970s, Limbaugh once told a black caller:
"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."
After becoming nationally syndicated, he said on the air:
"Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"
Blacks aren't the only race Limbaugh targets:
He referred to the father of Madonna's first child, a Latino, as "a gang-member type guy" -- an individual with no gang background.
He's a racist, after reading quotes like these the question isn't why ESPN fired him, it's why they ever hired him?
He's no better than David Duke.
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
too f funny... MT u must be a memeber of the Al Gore Chain eemail...great quotes all taken out of context...they are all still funny tho eveven if they werent..lolo
There is DEFNTLY a bias in Sports..and espn and the rest...its all about...AFFIRMative action..
U frikn sissys...truth hearts??..lololo
Love
BiGB
lololol " all criminal skecthes resembl jesse jackson"..
spike lee.."skip school..see my movie"
This post really made my night... thanks for representing the opposition.
:rofl
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Ahh so the liberal socialist left hates rush because he is a david duke racist? keep trying people.
You guys hate rush limbaugh because he drives straight through you and pisses you off at the core because you know you are soft bellied and indefensible. you hate him because tens of millions of right thinking people listen to his show every day on 620+ radio stations all across the fruited plain and you hate him for every inch of it.
No rush isnt done, he hasnt even started yet but he knows, I know, and you know too -that as long as he is alive you will hate.
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U frikn sissys
ok. lets fight. put em up.
just kidding. dont wet your pants
There is no affirmative action in sports, genius. Not for the players. You think a team owner is going to hire some guy because he is black so he can have diversity??
How many native american indians do you see in sports? How many blacks or hispanics playing hockey? How many hispanics in football (american)? How many black swimmers? I could go on.
That was probably the dumbest thing I heard all day
McNabb got where he did because he earned it. Of all things, sports should be colorblind. That didnt occur to Rushbo because he is a bigot, and probably high on Oxies.
strk
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probably high on Oxies.
OK thats were this WHOLE DAY gets weird.....the MEDIA is quoting a story from the NATIONAL ENQUIRER!
the NATIONAL ENQUIRER! FOR GOD SAKES
The same magazine that said a woman gave birth to a half llama half boy
WERE IS THE MEDIA CREDIBILITY TO THIS STORY!
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I wonder if McNabb is type A+?
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I agree Gunslinger, I would like to see some proof, even an affidavit or an indictment at least. That is why I just slip in a snide remark here and there. I was thinking about this earlier today, and I dont think it is impossible, he is human like the rest of us. Better men than him (or me) have become addicted to drugs. If it is true it might change his attitude about a few things. I kind of doubt it though
strk
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not to mention.....were's the follow up story on llama-boy
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Not that I don't think Rush is a racist, he probably is, but you can not use those quotes to prove it.
Examples:
Caller: "The republican party should devote most of thier resources to capturing the black vote. They must reach out to them to win this election"
Rush: "They are 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares?"
Caller: "We have our own culture, our own unique identity that is different from the american culture; it must be addressed by this government"
Rush:"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."
Rush:""Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?" "
Me: They do. Not because he is black, but because he has no outstanding features, he is just, totally, average.
Rush:"A gang-member-type-guy"
Him:
(http://www.lizking.com/carlos.jpg)
OK, so he looks more like a Sissy than a gang member, but he IS trying hard.
None of my quotes are true, BTW, but I am sure they follow the general sense of the conversation that Rushidie's comments were lifted from. Context is all, show it or STFU.
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Context is all, show it or STFU.
this applies to you too. you just made stuff up. its just spin. i have heard rush's jesse jackson joke, and it is not without malice
strk
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Rush is such a nice guy yeager. :p
In the late 1980’s when he was in Sacramento working for KFBK he gained his popularity by laughing and cheering as he read off names of gay men who had died of AIDS.
Limbaugh is a fine example of what conservatives consider good character and a role model for their children.
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He is all the things stated above-I gave you examples of how the quotes could be put in context, not an argument that they were. I didn't make the statement to begin the argument, thus I don't have to disprove a lie; the poster must prove it.
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Originally posted by Fatty
Sterling isn't on the show anymore, Michael Irving replaced him.
Its I-R-V-I-N....Michael IRVIN....handsomehunk.
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Originally posted by Fatty
Sterling isn't on the show anymore, Michael Irving replaced him.
Ah... okay... I haven't watched ESPN NFL Countdown at all this year... as the years pass, I much prefer Bradshaw and Howie on Fox.
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Michael Irvin... Sweat Jeasious.
Why would Rush rip on McNabb when there is a much juicier target, the crackhead Bailmaker, right next to him??? Rush really is an idiot.
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he gained his popularity by laughing and cheering as he read off names of gay men who had died of AIDS.
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Well thats pure evil for sure.
I listened to rush every day at work, pretty much, from 92 to 96 before I moved into a a cubicle that couldnt pick up AM. I havent heard much of his show since then but I never, ever picked up on anything he said that was "overtly" distasteful let alone racist or bigoted, in my honest opinion. some of the stuff was racey but back then I was lodged in between a clinton liberal lesbian and a reagan christian militant so nothing rush said compared to what the freaks I was working with were saying to each other and to me.
If he did laugh, which I sincerely do not believe he did, at the names of those who died from aids, Id sure like to see a reliable source that proved it. To me that sounds more like urban legend than verifiable fact. whats even more disturbing is that you say he gained popularity from such behavior. I dont believe it. prove it and I will.
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My thoughts on Rush:
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THATS IT I'M A WHITE MAN AND I'M OFFENDED AT ALL THE RACISM AGAINST MY PEOPLE IN SPORTS
http://www.fightingwhites.org/ (http://www.fightingwhites.org/)
(http://img.rushlimbaugh.com/home/folder/031902.Par.0002.ImageFile.jpg)
WE Need affirmative action in sports and I demand a White boxing champion....a white point guard to win the NBA championship....and in exchange we'll give you hockey and soccer:D
just bein a wise arse to make a point that this is all rediculus:lol
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Oxycontin
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There is Aff Actn in sports..
Do you all not knwo that head coaches ..Team Owners were "pressured to "interview" "black' folk?
Ill discuse the rest of the AA in sports afert we get this ? agreed on.
They did this most recewnt i know of on the SF 49ers Head coaching job.
hahah liberals squirm easy
Love
BiGB
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You're right sling, I can never remember which is the handsomehunk Dallas Cowboy and which is the city full of handsomehunk Dallas Cowboys.
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isnt that blasphemus living in austin and disliking the cowboys.....I've heard of lynch mobs hanging for less LOL jk
But you bring up a good point....the dallas cowboys are offenesive to cows, boys, and cowboys nationwide....not just because of there mascot but because they represent cowboys and suck as a football team....JK
Not a big dallas fan at all but than again i dont think i have a favorite pro team
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
They did this most recewnt i know of on the SF 49ers Head coaching job.
hahah liberals squirm easy
Love
BiGB
I think the reason losing white coaches ( like rich kotite) are there is because the liberal white media want white coaches to succeed
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Lets see the cowboys have won how many superbowls?
Oh and there what 2and 1 right nowLOL
They might do okm this year and bye the way we have a blck QB and he is pretty good.
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COOL!
Still not a cowboys fan :p
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Bush expressed support for Limbaugh in conversations with top staff on Thursday.
"Rush is a great American," the president said of the pill-popping racist.
"I am confident he can overcome any obstacles he faces right now." (http://www.drudgereport.com/mattrn.htm)
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oh goodness!
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I love it when Rush puts the lefties on the offensive/defensive.. I really really love it!
Rush Limbaugh plays you guys like a freekin Tuba.... may the entertaiment continue :rofl
GO RUSH!
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Always happy to entertain you Tumor! :D
(http://www.bartcop.com/rush-oxycontin2.jpg)
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Originally posted by k2cok
Always happy to entertain you Tumor! :D
Ahhh of course... the famous judge, jury and executioner attitude at it's best.
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Hey, my name isn't Rush Limbaugh! :p
But remember, I'm counting on your voting for me in 2004.
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Originally posted by Tumor
I love it when Rush puts the lefties on the offensive/defensive.. I really really love it!
Rush Limbaugh plays you guys like a freekin Tuba.... may the entertaiment continue :rofl
GO RUSH!
Sure... he planned the whole thing... yeah... :rolleyes:
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I keep wondering why ESPN would hire him in the first place. Talk about something blowing up in their face, wow. Not only did he discredit black QB's , he managed to discredit the league. What he said was the media controls who succeeds in the NFL. What a slap in the face to the league.
You may fraud your way into the league( hello tony mandarich and brian bosworth, who were hyped by the media and flopped), but you get figured out real quick.
ESPN has a contract with the NFL for the sunday night game. It will be interesting to see what happens when it is time to renew.
Rush a fool? Hardly. Not only did he get ESPN to hire him(like he needed the money), he used them like a tool to score a ton of publicity. He made out like a bandit.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Sure... he planned the whole thing... yeah... :rolleyes:
Well "planned" per se.. no. But I firmly believe (and anyone who doesn't , doesn't know squat about Rush) that he had every intention of bringing his agenda to ESPN, without giving a second thought about the consequences.
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Originally posted by Tumor
But I firmly believe (and anyone who doesn't , doesn't know squat about Rush) that he had every intention of bringing his agenda to ESPN, without giving a second thought about the consequences.
This is probably true.
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yes so true...Rush diditn lie thts for sure
HEll yes he was a hyped up quarter back.. And yes the Team mangaers are pressured to have minority stars in prominent possitions...
Are there alot or a few really good black quarter backs..No theres not...
Will the Footbal execs pressure to get more super star black quarterbacks!!!,,,Sure they do..they want more fans and more money..
Dam shame..Rush is still right on target with his comments..Loive it
BiGB
xoxo
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
yes so true...Rush diditn lie thts for sure
HEll yes he was a hyped up quarter back.. And yes the Team mangaers are pressured to have minority stars in prominent possitions...
Team manager, yeah, you know alot about football.
Catch what football players are saying about what he said. They say he is way off. But I guess you know more about football than the people who have actually played it.
BTW, coaches are under pressure to win. Not to play players by their skin color.
Andy Reid is 39-25 in the four years with philly and is considered one of the best coaches in the league. I think he knows football talent a little more than Rush or you do.
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I was thinking the other day, maybe Rush is behind the whoel Oxy scandal - think about it.
He leaks the story to the enquirer through a proxy, the local police policy is to neither confirm nor deny, he gets a couple of other 'sources" to come to the press to make it look plausible, then suffers a few days of bad press.
Then when the story falls apart he vilifies the "liberal" press for wanting to crucify him for anything, even a weak, unsubstantiated and ridicuous story about drug rings.
It would be a masterful bit of PR and give him something to talk about for years. Lets face it, CLinton is wearing a little thin hehe
strk
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I find it amusing the quick dismissal by the league, the media, and the players that the idea of discrimination against black quarterbacks could even be could be considered, especially when McNabb is among the first group to truly be accepted.
It's not very long ago at all that black quarterbacks were unheard of aside from the occasional Doug Williams, Cunningham and Moon. When the big group came through, there was no conspiracy to promote them, but it was human nature to hope they succeeded. I know I was 'desirous' to see them succeed, just as I am 'desirous' to see the handfull of black coaches succeed since they are in the same situation quarterbacks were not very long ago. Anyone would have to be, unless they were either racist or completely apathetic.
Whether that's still the case a few years later I'd agree it's probably not, but it's certainly not out in left field to be debated (unless you're a league that wants to brush its past aside).
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Fatty, it was not long ago that it was said that White QB's are there because of the media. It was labeled w/o merit, and it was. What Rush did was discredit what Mcnabb has done, and that is w/o merit also. It's the NFL, if you don't cut it, you won't last long, white or black.
Does the leaugue want to see a black QB succeed? Sure, but it would not do so to compromise the integrity of the league
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What Rush did was discredit what Mcnabb has done
Yes, he did, and that's got nothing to do with it.
The point is whether a discussion on how the turn was made from not allowing black quarterbacks to play (with rare exception) to their being accepted is even allowed to take place.
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He discredited what he has done by the color of his skin, that has everything to do with it.
he also discredited the league
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Christ this is like calling someone a racist for bringing up Jackie Robinson's race.
Irregardless of his ability, overrated or underrated, McNabb is among the first group of black quarterbacks to be accepted in the NFL.
You cannot throw out any discussion of this as racism, and you cannot have any discussion of the fact without bringing up race.
You cannot relate that to the current head coach situation without bringing up race.
And you cannot even discuss the policies the NFL has to take under the thread of lawsuit without discussing race.
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He said Mcnabb was a QB in this league because he was black. What does being a QB have to do with being black?
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he also discredited the league
The league discredited itself, and continues with its hiring practices.
It's trying to right itself, at least image-wise, but its race-relation problems have very little to do with anything Rush said.
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What hiring practices? And don't deflect away from the thread, it is about what rush said. I didn't hear him mention hiring polocies
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Originally posted by Sixpence
He said Mcnabb was a QB in this league because he was black. What does being a QB have to do with being black?
At the risk of sounding like Lance, source please. He said nothing of the sort.
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Dig up the quote urself
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Originally posted by Sixpence
What hiring practices?
Exactly. Or if it was not rhetorical, ask Johnny Cochran.
There is no quote Sixpence, that is the point.
He did say he thought McNabb was overrated, and he did say that he thought the media was desirous that a black quaterbacks succeed. I watched it, at no point did affirmative action come up, at no point did he imply that McNabb should not have the starting job or that he got the job for any reason other than ability.
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So the media does the hiring?
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Whether or not McNabb should have the starting job as quarterback was never mentioned.
What was mentioned is that he thought McNabb got too much credit and the Eagles defense was underrated as a factor in the eagles division titles.
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Too much credit because he was black
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So that's it then, race cannot be discussed in a league that has current policies in place less than two years as an agreement to avoid a lawsuit on the grounds of unfair minority hiring practices?
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Did Mcnabb get hired because of that?
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Are you asking my opinion? I can't give you Rush's, as I told you the last few times you tried to make that connection it was never discussed on NFL Countdown.
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you brought up hiring practices, not me.
So by your thinking, if he said Jason Sehorn was not that good of a cornerback, it was the media who wanted to see a white conerback succeed, you would agree with that?
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Originally posted by Fatty
Exactly. Or if it was not rhetorical, ask Johnny Cochran.
Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a wookie, from the planet Kishik. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. That does not make sense.
Why would a wookie, an 8 foot tall wookie, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks. That does not make sense.
But more importantly, you must ask yourself: what does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed jury, it has nothing to do with this case. Look at me, I'm a lawyer, defending a major record company, and I'm talking about Chewbacca. I am not making any sense. None of this makes any sense.
So, when you're in that jury room debating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation, you must ask yourself this question: Does it make sense?
No. It does not make sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit. The defense rests.
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My head just exploded :)
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So by your thinking, if he said Jason Sehorn was not that good of a cornerback, it was the media who wanted to see a white conerback succeed, you would agree with that?
[edit]You ask a hypothetical question based on the condition that he is overrated and then you say you can't say he's overrated because he's not? If he is overrated and why he is overrated are two seperate things. The first would, in the opinion of those who don't think he's overrated, discredit what he has accomplished on the field. The second is an opinion on why the first exists.
Yes. Because it's human nature.
It's human nature to want to see a white basketball player like Van Horn succeed in a league that is majority african american, especially at the superstar level.
It's human nature to want to see a Tommy Morrison succeed in heavyweight boxing.
It's human nature to want to see Anthony Nesty win gold medals in swimming.
It's human nature to be pleased black quarterbacks have broken the stereotypes against them.
But apparantly it's racist to admit it.
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Originally posted by Fatty
Yes. Because it's human nature.
That doesn't make it right to discredit what Jason Sehorn accomplished in this league because of the color of his skin. The media did not make him a good cornerback. Jason Sehorn did.
"Sorry to say this, I don't think (McNabb) has been that good from the get-go; I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well, black coaches and quarterbacks doing well. There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."
Rush, or his sources, or both, apparently don't think that much of the skills of McNabb. On the other hand, some people do. Jon Gruden, probably the top offensive talent evaluator in the league right now, raved about McNabb from that same get-go, the Senior Bowl of McNabb's senior year out of Syracuse. Gruden raved about what a great pro McNabb would be. Loved him. McNabb has since made Pro Bowls and twice played in the NFC Championship Game and two years ago finished runner-up as the MVP of the entire league. And he isn't even 30 years old.
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Again, if he is overrated and why he is overrated are two different things.
Anyone who thinks the Eagles' defense was underrated the last two years is implying McNabb is overrated. I don't think he's overrated, but I don't think it's a farfetched argument that the defense didn't get enough credit in those championship runs either. If you're of that opinion you've already taken away from McNabb's accomplishments on the field regardless of why you think he got more credit than the defense.
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Originally posted by Fatty
Again, if he is overrated and why he is overrated are two different things.
Anyone who thinks the Eagles' defense was underrated the last two years is implying McNabb is overrated. I don't think he's overrated, but I don't think it's a farfetched argument that the defense didn't get enough credit in those championship runs either. If you're of that opinion you've already taken away from McNabb's accomplishments on the field regardless of why you think he got more credit than the defense.
That isn't what was said, here ya go, the quote:
"Sorry to say this, I don't think (McNabb) has been that good from the get-go; I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well, black coaches and quarterbacks doing well. There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."
That is not saying the QB got more credit than the defense. It's saying that Mcnabb was never a good QB. That he got credit for being a good QB because he was black. Mcnabb was 75% of the philly offense in 2000 and 79% of the offense in 2001. I would say that he was carrying the offense, no?
QB's get all the press. Tom brady was given too much credit when the Patriot defense carried them. I will not say that it was because he was white.( or did Rush)
And you are right, the philly defense does not get the credit it deserves.( I will not say it is because the players on it's defense are black or white) Welcome to life in the NFL. QB's get the press, ask broadway Joe.
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QB's get all the press. Tom brady was given too much credit when the Patriot defense carried them. I will not say that it was because he was white.( or did Rush)
LOL! YOU SAID IT BECAUSE HE WAS WHITE.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
LOL! YOU SAID IT BECAUSE HE WAS WHITE.
MiniD
That was the point.
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he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team
That is not saying the QB got more credit than the defense
Are you high?
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Originally posted by Fatty
Are you high?
I wish
"Sorry to say this, I don't think (McNabb) has been that good from the get-go; I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well"
That is not saying the QB got more credit than the defense. Again, 75% of the offense in 2000, 79% of the offense in 2001.
Jon Gruden, probably the top offensive talent evaluator in the league right now, raved about McNabb from that same get-go, the Senior Bowl of McNabb's senior year out of Syracuse. Gruden raved about what a great pro McNabb would be. Loved him. McNabb has since made Pro Bowls and twice played in the NFC Championship Game and two years ago finished runner-up as the MVP of the entire league.
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Cut the quote even shorter and maybe you can have him throwing the time-out flag just to say 'black.'
Then you can throw out some more offensive stats that have nothing to do with whether the defense was underrated or not.
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I got that cut the quote trick from you;)
Of course the defense was underated(but not by much, Andy reid has received alot of credit for his defense)
But you are picking the second part of his quote to dismiss the first part. We are not debating that he was wrong in saying the defense didn't get enough credit. The fact that it was the QB(getting the credit) because he is black is what is being debated.
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So you're okay with Rush thinking McNabb is overrated? Why all the Gruden quotes?
If McNabb is overrated, then why?
Which brings us back to the point. Whether it is wrong to overrate Jason Sehorn because he is a white player playing in a stereotypically black position is irrelevant. If you think people may root for him or exaggerate his contribution for that reason, why exactly is it wrong to voice that opinion?
Stating that opinion does not mean you think he shouldn't have the job, that he got the job because he is white, or that you don't think he is the best person for the job. It means you don't think he is as good as he is made out to be, and that some people support him for that reason.
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Originally posted by Fatty
So you're okay with Rush thinking McNabb is overrated? Why all the Gruden quotes?
If McNabb is overrated, then why?
I'm okay with Rush saying mcnabb is overated, but that isn't what he said
"Which brings us back to the point. Whether it is wrong to overrate Jason Sehorn because he is a white player playing in a stereotypically black position is irrelevant"
But saying that he isn't good and is a cornerback because he is a product of the media wanting a white cornerback to succeed is relevant.
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Okay, this may crush your idealistic world, but it does happen. When the media can create a human interest story, it is profitable to do so. It is not always the case, but to mute speech on the subject entirely is, I don't know, right wing of you?
Tommy Morrison was overhyped by the media because they wanted to create a great white hope, as is any white heavyweight who makes it a couple of months without being knocked out. Oh goodness, I've taken everything he's ever accomplished away from him because of the color of his skin.
Tiger Woods wasn't overhyped because he really is that good, but the media didn't milk the color issue for all it was worth? Gosh, can I say that?
I think Sehorn really was that good, but after they tore him up returning kicks during that preseason game he hasn't been the same. He is the only cornerback to appear on Third Watch I think. Golly, was that racist?
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Originally posted by Fatty
I think Sehorn really was that good, but after they tore him up returning kicks during that preseason game he hasn't been the same. He is the only cornerback to appear on Third Watch I think. Golly, was that racist?
So you would not agree if I said sehorn was not a good cornerback from the "get-go", and was overated because the media wanted to see a white cornerback succeed?
And plz don't compare the NFL to boxing.
Look, if he had said that Mcnabb was overated and the defense carried the team, that would be legit. But he brought his anti-black agenda into it. That was wrong.
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No I wouldn't agree, I don't agree with Rush's assessment either. More importantly I'd just take it as an opinion and move on.
So you don't think the things I said were racist, but because you believe Rush has an Anti-Black agenda he should not be allowed to say them?
Or am I racist because of my previous post?
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Originally posted by Fatty
No I wouldn't agree, I don't agree with Rush's assessment either. More importantly I'd just take it as an opinion and move on.
So you don't think the things I said were racist, but because you believe Rush has an Anti-Black agenda he should not be allowed to say them?
He can say what he wants, right or wrong. Should he be allowed to spew his agenda on NFL countdown? No, I do not agree. Keep it to football, not politics. Save it for his radio show where it belongs.
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Geez louise! The only group Rush slammed (other than saying McNabb was over-rated) was the media, and in doing so he basically called the MEDIA racist (oh NO.. reverse racism?... there's no such thing!) and the MEDIA immediately turned HIM into a racist by redefining what he said to meet thier own agenda.... it's what they do, get over it.
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Ya know if affirmative action was a "real" thing then %'s would be a "real" factor.