Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: artik on October 03, 2003, 12:01:28 PM
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Hello, All
in November there going to be Kadesh Scenario of 4 frames where Jets would be mostly involved. The planeset would be:
Egyptian Air Force
Gloster Meteor (reskinned 262)
Il-28 (reskinned Ar234)
Israel Air Force
Gloster Meteor
Mustang P51D
Mosquito
B-17
Anglo/Franch coalition
F4U-4
Gloster Meteor
Most of the fights would be shifted to Jets vs Jets fights - and prop planes would get secondary role - strike only because they outclassed by Meteor (262). The problem that most of AH players are not familiar with this planes. They do not know how to fight in Jet fighters (in my expirence it is quite different and interesting).
Could be this planeset setup on CT
Not like the pervious Kadesh when 262 was aviable on rear bases but full Jet war of 262 vs 262 to let players feel the difference of gameplay for further Scenario. Just like there were Okinawa and other planeset in CT lets make Kadesh planeset.
What do you think about it.
(The terrain is not important - the main point is Jets vs Jets fights)
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eeeewwwww!:eek:
Nothing personal artik, just not my "cup of tea".
But heck, I can stand to miss a week of CT action.
Will be interesting to see how others feel about it.
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I know some of us do not like it but it is prepearing for Kadesh scenario - Jets fights training - I think a lot of players need it
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Artik,
Have you seen the tiles I did for the Kadesh terrain? I believe that Tilt is using them in the terrain update but I'd like to get some feedback on any tweaks or modifications they might need.
Sqrl (of the CM terrain team)
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Originally posted by artik
I know some of us do not like it but it is prepearing for Kadesh scenario - Jets fights training - I think a lot of players need it
guess they would - AH = WW2 air combat sim
do you mean this setup is going to hose up CT for a week? :confused:
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No offence intended, bro .. but ... Thanks for the warning.
You say "4 frames." :confused: Are you talking about CT or SEA?
You also say you think a lot of players "need" jet fighter training. I respectfully disagree. I play AH because it's a WWII sim. Couldn't care less if I NEVER set my bellybutton in a jet.
Set up a scenerio that takes place over the Middle East between '40 and '45 ... with the appropriate planes ... and I'm in. Maybe.
Splash1
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Lat time i looked the map was totaly unsuied for the CT, have you changed it?
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Originally posted by Squirrel
Artik,
Have you seen the tiles I did for the Kadesh terrain? I believe that Tilt is using them in the terrain update but I'd like to get some feedback on any tweaks or modifications they might need.
Sqrl (of the CM terrain team)
No I didn't, What do you mean tiles?
You say "4 frames." Are you talking about CT or SEA?
This is scenario - like okinawa or nieman etc... it will be at SEA every sataday in November - 4 frames look in calendar.
That is just idea for put it on CT to make players feel what would be the event.
Lat time i looked the map was totaly unsuied for the CT, have you changed it?
I do not think kadesh map should be used for CT - it is for scenario only. What I need is planeset only.
Thanks you all
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In the Okinawa, and the Slot (guadacanal) event's we did run the map priour to the events in the CT but we did not use the same plane set's, they were a bit different, and the Maps were built with a dual use in mind, for the SEA and the CT.
Gloster Meteor (reskinned 262)
Il-28 (reskinned Ar234)
Israel Air Force
Gloster Meteor
Mustang P51D
Mosquito
B-17
Anglo/Franch coalition
F4U-4
Gloster Meteor
We only run two sided maps in the CT for a number of reasions, nonthe least of which are the numbers atending will not suport a three sided map.
At face value (assuming the Anglo/French forces fight for the Iserailies), have the Egyptians are at bit of a disadvantage, they nead some sort of Atack capacaty, the AR 234 is not going to cut it for taking bases, it neads to be tweaked to creat some balnce in some areas to make a decent CT set up, and GV's of course.
At present it will not play well ,and these cold war era plane set up's are not very popular in the CT.
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No problems to add Anglo/French coalition to IAF
GVs of course I just didn't written them because I had written planes only.
Strike planes? Ar234 might cause a problem.... maybe add Spit14 for EAF (it was in servise but didn't operate in this war)
The important point that 262 will be main fighter plane and props have secondary role of strike planes.
That should be the main point of planeset. Anything alse could be changed to make it more suitable for CT.
thank you for your help, brady
cold war era plane set up's
not cold war :) - the middle east Israel/Arabic conflict.
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Well it is a generic term for anything past WW2, it describes that era.
I am not up for a while, I will think about it though.
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Originally posted by artik
No problems to add Anglo/French coalition to IAF
GVs of course I just didn't written them because I had written planes only.
Strike planes? Ar234 might cause a problem.... maybe add Spit14 for EAF (it was in servise but didn't operate in this war)
The important point that 262 will be main fighter plane and props have secondary role of strike planes.
That should be the main point of planeset. Anything alse could be changed to make it more suitable for CT.
thank you for your help, brady
not cold war :) - the middle east Israel/Arabic conflict.
Instead of the Spit14 you might want to consider the Tempest. It carries more ordnance and is better suited to the style of flying for JABO or strike missions.
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By the way Il-28/Ar234 is excelent bomber it has 1500kg bombload, it fast and have good flight range. The only problem it has no dive bombsite.... so you need a little practice with level bombing with this fast (extreemly fast) bomber. By the way in later 1967 clonflict there were Vouture bomber (IAF) with Norden site that sucsessefully used by IAF. So you need some practice with Norden site on high speeds and all ok.
For Ground force supplay I think 4x30mm 262 guns would be great no chance for any viecle to survive.
Tempest - it is ok but not historical. In Kadesh Scenario Egyptian Air Force will have only Gloster Meteor/262 and Il-28/Ar234 squadrons. So it might be interesting to force Egyptian side fly Jet planes only.
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Didn't say it was in service just mentioned a plane that would be effective in the JABO role while still not being a jet.
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Real, the Egyptians nead some other Jabo that is comperable with the Iserails mounts, the 262 is very capable of dealing out deth and distruction but is more vulnerable in doing so than the Iseraile planes since it must get closer, also their is not atack switch on the 262 so doingg so will pork you fighter rank, not that everyone cares about this, but for those who do an option should be available, the AR 234 is not realy a viable Atack platform, nore does it have an atack switch, it is very had to dive bomb in, and easly intercepted by 262's. Realy I think Jazz made a good sugestion in the Tempest, it may as you say not be historical thoough, but it would balance things out.
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As I told, it is ok to add some strike planes to make planeset more suitable for CT, if it is Tempest let it be Tempest. (It would become mostly perked plane arena 262, Ar234, Tempest, F4U-4 :) ).
The most important that it would stay Jet fighter Combat Theatre.
I hope that it would interest some players
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Originally posted by artik
No I didn't, What do you mean tiles?
Terrain texture bmp files of course :) . They cover the land and water in AH terrains much like a tile floor (hence the name). Kanttori asked me to make these back in June for the Kadesh scenario. I can send them to you as an email attachment (~1.2M) if you like but I will need an email address.
All the best,
Sqrl
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artik@101squadron.com (artik@101squadron.com)
Thank you. I've used the standard tiles. Are this tiles improves terrain visiability. Make it look better? I just have never used them. But the question - all terrain types will stay close to pervious - I meen rocky, grassy rock, grass, farm, water, snow? Because there is a lot of different types of ground - dessert, grass, etc... (Do not think that Israel all dessert ;) )
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We have ran some Jet vs Jet set up's in the past in the CT, or rather set up's that featured them everywhear for both sides.
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No offense, Artik ... but I think you have jet on the brain. Now I'm all for subbing a model here and there to portray a different one. I'm even more for the eventual release of new models (who isn't?). But seeing CT/Scenario setups that have 262s battling 262s time and time again loses it's "novelty" fast.
Now .... don't get me wrong. I see some potential for some fun in jets online ... up to a limit. Ummmm .... AW had Sabres and Migs modeled and it was pretty fun. Anything past that point and I tend to lose interest. Jet combat became less a thing of dogfighting after Korea. (And yes .... I know ... there's plenty of Middle East air conflicts close to and before that timeframe.)
As things are right now in Aces High, I don't think players are going to flock to CT setups and scenarios that feature Israeli and Egyptian Me-262s over the desert. Then again, I could be wrong.
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damn arlo, I figured you'd be all over this one. After all it has an F4u.
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You've never been good at figuring, Wotan. VF-17 didn't fight in the Middle East against Me-262s. :rofl
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Ah, thats right. Just against a6m2s, right?
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No, ma'am ... that's your hangup. I promoted late pac setups featuring the entire IJ planeset from day one and you still have a rather bizarre and unusual (read completely baseless) fear over the F4U (any F4U) in that setting. But I've also, since then, learned to accept your propensity for wetting your diaper over such things. Now that we understand each other, pax? :D
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Neverthenless we do have Kadesh Scenario with Jets planeset (Meteor / (reskinned 262)). The point is to open jets fights view for some players that not familiar with Meteor/262. That is prepearing for Kadesh Scenario in November
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No offense ... good luck. Like I said, I could be wrong. And after all, trying new things is not a bad thing at all. Or even revisiting stuff we've tried before .... especially with a new perspective. I wouldn't mind seeing both some "pre" and post-war stuff modeled (hehe ... SCW would be really cool), but until then, all we really got to work with is the 262 ... and for me, that's just not enough to catch my interest right now. Our interests just diverge on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to stretching things outside of WWII.
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Man I was Watching CNN and they said H!ll just froz over...and I argee with Arlo hear.
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Is it possible to have a arena say for a week or even a couple of days during the week that is separate. Like the test arena that was just used for Festers map.
That way anyone interested or involved in the Kadesh scenario can familiarize themselves with the event and planes.
68Falcon
PS:
I have to agree with Arlo and Brady that jet vs jet is not what this game is about.
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Well they do make the map you will be playing on Jim available in the SEA as much as posable for you all to practice on, another thing you could do is simply to have your players prectice aganst themselfs in the Training areana. How long till the first frame?
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How long till the first frame?
First frame in 1th in November