Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Swoop on October 03, 2003, 02:03:07 PM
-
Well. Cost cutting.
The company I work for (big American company called AT&T, you may have heard of them) is closing the EMEA global networking 3rd line tech support desk in Holland and an existing team based in Britain is taking over the role.......my last day is the 17th of October and I'm job hunting. See, right now I'm a contractor, been here 5 years doing the same job.
The problem is......this team in Britain has no skills whatsoever in the job. They've had an overview from a Cloggie trainer which left many scratching heads. Then they had two weeks technical training from my team leader, which left them still scratching heads and all of a sudden this afternoon my manager calls me into his office and asks me if I'd be interested in a contract extension until the end of the year to go to Britain and train up the new team. I said yes, I'm interested, make me an offer.
So.......bout 30 mins later my slavetrader (read: contracting agent) calls me up and says AT&T will pay for accommodation in Britain and in return there will be a 10% drop in the contract rate.
:eek: :rofl
I told him to stick it where the sun does not shine.
*Then* I had another meeting with the boss and here's what I told him: Paul (cos that's his name), if I said to you that I want you to spend two months in a hotel in Portsmouth (and if I know AT&T, it'll be a real cheap hotel), away from your wife and kids, all food bills will be yours to handle and keep in mind a hotel won't have an oven or fridge/freezer in the room so you'll be eating out every night, if you want to fly home for a weekend to see your wife then it's at your own expense, at the end of it you're out of a job AND I want you take a pay cut, what would you say?
When I said make me an offer I really didn't expected the offer to be a pay cut.
......he's getting back to me on monday.
The situation is: Someone in Britain has realised that in a months time AT&T is gonna be paying out thousands in broken SLAs to customers cos the new team is about as clued up as a....not very clued up thing. I know this from various sources in the new team (what management seem to forget is that the peasants sometimes talk to each other), I also know that various strongly worded requests for some 'bloody help here' has originated from the new team. I also know that the situation has been brought to the attention of the VP in charge of everything (um....by a mate of mine) and that he ain't happy.
What I don't know is why anyone in their right mind would think I'd accept an offer like that when they know that I know that they're waaaaay up that creek and haven't seen a paddle in weeks. And the boat's leaking.
On the other hand.......like, crap man, I'm out of a job!
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
Stand your ground matey. They are trying to take serious advantage of you by the sounds of it.
If you have enough coin to live on until things get really bad for the new team you might find that AT&T's pockets will open up rather wide.
It looks like the game of brinksmanship has begun.
How long do you reckon you can hang on for?
-
dude
-
Originally posted by Curval
How long do you reckon you can hang on for?
I know there's a hiring freeze on, this is why the only way they'll do it is as a continuation of the current contract. The thing is, they've already given me notice so it's not just a continuation.
Anyway, I also know that higher management has put a block on a head count increase in the new team.......however, the situation may change in january next year when new budgets are drawn up. What I'm not willing to do is gamble on there being a job for me, I really, really don't expect there to be after december. Not with the way AT&T has been cutting back on....well....everything lately.
However......more than one person has mentioned the idea of just hanging on until the begging starts. Personally I'm not convinced the begging even will start if you keep in mind that it's the Dutch brain that's making these decisions.....so I'm still job hunting and if I get an offer tomorrow I'll be taking it.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
More background:
A couple of years ago AT&T sent around an email to all the contractors saying how times were hard and they expected us to show loyalty to the company (!) and they wanted everyone to take a 5% rate cut to help out.
Any contractor who didn't got the boot.
A mate of mine in this team finished today, his last day, bye bye. He started a week before me. Been here 5 years. Wanna know what his leaving present was? An AT&T sweatshirt.
If they give me a shreckin sweatshirt in two weeks there's gonna be an explosion of language they ain't never heard before.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Swoop
so I'm still job hunting and if I get an offer tomorrow I'll be taking it.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
Want me to check around here?
I had posted that job at the Bank of Bermuda...I could see if that is still available.
Job thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95853&highlight=job+opportunity)
-
Ahh.. glad I'm not the only one that got the old' shaft from AT&T. I started a very nice job for their Wireless Division right after I got out of college. My job was Roaming and Technical Resolutions. Basically, I checked to make sure cell towers were working properly and addion to non-AT&T customers that use our systems transfered load's correctly.
9 months into the job we were told that our job's were going to back to Washington...
Their a bunch of dicks I tell ya.. I have no dealings with AT&T since then :D
-
:( Swoop that really sucks big time. Another example of Global strategy not taking into account regional needs and experience. I've been through it although I have managed to hang on to my job (so far).... I'm currently the sole UK survivor of a global team. (There used to be 4 of us). My advice... Start looking for another contract immediately. You know your'e good enough. If they don't, that's thier problem.
TTFN
snafu
-
Aye I saw that, but the thing is, I'm not an analyst programmer. :)
If ya happen to know anyone who's looking for an independant thinking LAN/WAN/VPN/RAS type kinda fella who never said the words "I don't know" without adding "but I'll get back to you when I do" then lemme know.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
The IT contract market in the UK has gone well south, mate. I got out 2 years ago. It's better to be earning a lesser amount than not be earning at all. If they come back with even a modestly improved offer, I suggest you accept it.
-
Originally posted by qts
The IT contract market in the UK has gone well south, mate.
It's mildly better in Holland it seems. Plus I'm also looking at permy jobs as well. Been here 5 years, I don't like short contracts anyway.......
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
I didn't know there were so many disgruntled AT&T people on this forum...
... including me! :p
To be honest, IBM shafted me a lot worse than AT&T has. In fact, I've seen more money and perks from AT&T than I ever would've from IBM (IBM being on the "give to the rich and take from the poor" mentality when it comes to its employees).
What you're seeing in Europe is simply the US AT&T entity thinking that they know what they're doing (arrogance) and that they could do no wrong by using the American business strategy of "let's try this and see what happens". I handled international contracts from the US side and EMEA was the last bastion of professionalism in service ownership. Not that the American side was bad, but when push came to shove, the salesmen executives always forced the businessmen executives to take it between the cheeks in customer negotiations - "we can't close the deal unless we concede a 45-day pay period and an annual revenue credit even if they don't meet their volume goals". Usually it was "we'll concede it for the US, and then tell EMEA (Europe, Middle East, and Africa) that we already put it on contract and they'll just have to figure out how to implement the concession."
Looks like you're getting the fall-out from it all. The accountants saw the expenses, but then the businessmen saw the obligations.
Don't be surprised if, in 2 weeks, there's an announcement that AT&T has been sold to another company and that the support obligations will be assumed by the other company's people.
Its no coincidence that AT&T has undergone a severe executive restructuring and now you're dealing with uninformed executive decision-making.
Not sure where you sit, but I used to work with the ISPA and CSF coordinators, negotiating all of the data contracts out of the BSC in the Netherlands.
-
to go to Britain and train up the new team.
you forgot this important point, not only do they want you to travel, take on extra expense, and do it for less money. they want you to spend that time training someone else to replace you.
screw-em, it's good for job security, let them screw it up and then charge them more to straighten it out.
some times the best way to prove what you're worth is to let them do without you for awhile.
-
gl in your hunt Swoop
-
Swoop, I don't know if there are any openings right now, but since you are in Holland, you may try the European Space Agency. The European Space Technology Centre (ESTEC) is near Noordwjick (sp?) and they may have something for you, since one of the newly announced programs for this year by ESA is the creation of a better network between their centers (ESTEC, ESOC, EAC, ESRIN, VILSPA, and some others).
As I said, they may have nothing, but you could try... I can give you the e-mail addresses of a couple of friends who are telecom. engineers working at ESTEC right now.
Dunno if you are interested in that, or if there's a slight chance for you to get a job there, but since you are from an ESA member country you qualify for a post there... and hey... you never know :)
Good luck. Tell me if you are interested and I'll hook you up with these friends.
Daniel
-
yeah not half!
Coo, Swoop in space.......that's like.......Pigs in space only without Miss Piggy.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
-
Screw em! Buy a sailboat, sail the world. ;)
Thorns
-
Been there done that . I feel your pain. 6 months later I finally found a position with Blue Shield Insurance Co. Everyone needs insurance so I'm thinking job security should be stable this time around.
-
Originally posted by gofaster
To be honest, IBM shafted me a lot worse than AT&T has. In fact, I've seen more money and perks from AT&T than I ever would've from IBM (IBM being on the "give to the rich and take from the poor" mentality when it comes to its employees).
I concur with that gofaster, I'm still with IBM, as in right now. I've taken a drop in pay this year been messed about and screwed around. The bonus scheme has got to be the worst ever with no perks at all. But they still feed us with the 'We're all on the same team' BS they like to dish out. They expect me to work Christmas night this year, because it's the end of a quarter, yeah in their dreams:lol
Basically Swoop, that's the corporate mentality at the moment, loyalty is a one way street. Best look for a permanent job in a smaller company where they actually appreciate your efforts. That's my next step.
-
Sorry to hear you getting the shaft Swoopy...Sometimes it's best to walk away with your head held high than to let them slowly screw you into the ground...Maybe think about severance and what you can wriggle out of them?..GL m8.
-
Violence solves everything, just make sure nobody is left to say otherwise..;)
-
The company will try always to outsource, but what is your Union doing about it Swoop?
-
Good Luck in finding another job and leave them to sort out their own mess! :D
-
Swoop, send me your CV, with what you're interested in doing, salary expectations etc. I can't make any promises but my lot (CSC) have major operations in Holland.
Work email is qstephen AT csc DOT com.
-
G'luck swoop. You're a brilliant guy, you'll find something else. Boeing has been doing something similiar, they call it "SEI/CMM", where we basically document our processes, then do a knowledge transfer to the parts being off-loaded to overseas vendors, naturally expecting us to train them. Then, they lay us off.
-
Swoop - are you fixed to Cloggieland or would you go back to UK?? I have a mate who is well up with National Rivers in the network support - they always seem to be looking for good people - no idea but I can ask.
Sparks
-
Sorry to hear that mate. Best of luck finding a new job.
-
Swoop,
send me an e-mail with your up-to date CV, & current salary, and are you allowed the 30% tax rule?
I may may have something in the Network Management Center in Amsterdam
kd514341@ncr.com
Cheers