Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ra on October 03, 2003, 07:11:47 PM
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NOT!
"ATLANTA (Reuters) - A report published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday found no conclusive evidence that gun control laws help prevent violent crime, suicides or accidental injuries in the United States."
anti-gun Nazis click here (http://www.reutershealth.com/archive/2003/10/02/eline/links/20031002elin010.html)
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This is news?!
That headline is about as obvious as "War on Drugs lowers drug use"
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;)
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swims up to this lure for a second time
no need to sniff (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97724)
...swims away
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Guess you guys just like to shoot each others :(
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/violent_deaths.gif)
Chart is from our National Bureau of Investigations, US numbers taken from this thread.
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And did it say how many of those were by firearm?
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btw numbers in that chart are showing all violent deaths exept in US which is only gun related.
After I saw the numbers from other scandinavian countries and compared them to Finnish numbers I thought we're screwed but after I added US numbers... Well it's still pretty good in here.
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Dune I couldn't find numbers for firearm kills; Only all kills.
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Originally posted by Staga
Dune I couldn't find numbers for firearm kills; Only all kills.
The nation's violent crime rate (the number of crimes per 100,000 population) has declined every year since 1991 and is now at a 22-year low. And murder is at a 35-year low. (FBI, http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm) The trends include the following highlights:
Since 1991, the nation's violent crime rates have all decreased substantially. Total violent crime (the aggregate of murder and non-negligent manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault), has decreased 33.2%; murder and non-negligent manslaughter has decreased 43.7%; rape has decreased 24.2%; robbery has decreased 46.9%; and aggravated assault has decreased 25.3%.
National violent crime rates in 2000 were the lowest in years. Total violent crime, the lowest since 1978; murder, the lowest since 1965; rape, the lowest since 1978; robbery, the lowest since 1968; and aggravated assault, the lowest since 1985.
Further demonstrating the irrelevance of "gun control" to crime rates, between 1991 (when violent crime started declining nationally) and 2000, states that had the greatest decreases in violent crime generally, and in murder in particular, included both those that have some of the nation's least restrictive gun laws (such as Texas, Alabama, South Carolina, and West Virginia) and those that have some of the most restrictive (such as California, New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut).
In 2000, as in previous years, firearms were used in less than one-fourth of violent crimes. Most violent crimes were committed with hands and feet (32%), blunt objects and other weapons (28%), and knives (15%).
In 2000, states that had Right-to-Carry laws had lower violent crime rates on average, compared to the rest of the country. Their total violent crime rate was 21.9% lower, murder was 28.4% lower, robbery was 37.7% lower, and aggravated assault was 16.5% lower. (Rape, the violent crime least likely to involve firearms, was 0.8% higher.)
The only states that experienced increases in their murder rates between 1991 (when violent crime began declining) and 2000 were Rhode Island (16%), Nebraska (12%), Kansas (3%), and Minnesota (3%), all of which still do not have Right-to-Carry laws.
At the same time the crime rate and the overall murder rate has reached a 22-year low, privately owned firearms increased in the U.S. by an average of 5.3 million per year during the 1990s. (BATF)
Privately owned firearms in the U.S.: Well over 200 million, including 65-70 million handguns
Gun owners in the U.S.: 60-65 million; 30-35 million own handguns
American households that have firearms: Approx. 45%
Hunters nationwide: 14 million (16 yrs. of age and older)
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The leading cause of death in the U.S. between ages 6 and 27 yrs old is automobile accidents.
Some other interesting data here (1998)
(http://home.comcast.net/~ripsnort60/g6.gif)
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20,000 deaths from DRUGS?
Obviously, we need more laws about drugs. Special background checks when you go to purchase drugs, stuff like that. No drugs within certain distances of schools, registration of/serial numbers on ALL drugs, no exceptions. No drug dealing except by registered pharmacists.
Oh..... wait........
Nevermind.
WAIT! I got it... make ALL drugs illegal and have a grace period when you can turn them in.
Then, if you can PROVE you need a drug, you can go to a registerd pharmacy and they'll give you one dose and keep the rest of your prescription locked up until you're due to come back for another dose.
Yah.. that's the ticket.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
The leading cause of death in the U.S. between ages 6 and 27 yrs old is automobile accidents.
Some other interesting data here (1998)
(http://home.comcast.net/~ripsnort60/g6.gif)
Great... 500,000 killed by alcohol and cigarettes and 20,000 from illicit drugs.
The drug war isn't worth the cost.
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Originally posted by Dune
At the same time the crime rate and the overall murder rate has reached a 22-year low, privately owned firearms increased in the U.S. by an average of 5.3 million per year during the 1990s. (BATF)
Privately owned firearms in the U.S.: Well over 200 million, including 65-70 million handguns
Gun owners in the U.S.: 60-65 million; 30-35 million own handguns
American households that have firearms: Approx. 45%
Hunters nationwide: 14 million (16 yrs. of age and older)
It's been awhile since I looked at the numbers, but IIRC, all increases and decreases (per capita) of violent crimes committed by teenagers were gun related. Still... it's lower than it's ever been.
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I think most of the suicide and homicide deaths for firearms should be listed under drugs.
Toad has a good idea... if we ban drugs and don't allow em at schools and stuff they will be harder to get and the drug problems will go away.
It's all so confusing. Where is mike moore when we need him?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think most of the suicide and homicide deaths for firearms should be listed under drugs.
There is such a thing as "clinical depression".
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Great... 500,000 killed by alcohol and cigarettes and 20,000 from illicit drugs.
I'll bet most of those killed by drugs were on average much younger than those who died from drinking or smoking. Booze and tobbacco may lower your life expectancy by 10 years, but abusing the wrong kind of drugs can kill you right now.
ra
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Originally posted by lazs2
It's all so confusing. Where is mike moore when we need him?
lazs
I told him to break into your house and run towards your bedroom sometime after 2300 HRS so he could discuss this with you. I said black clothes and a ski mask would be the best attire for the occasion.
I hope nothing happens to him. Without him to set the record straight...we'd all be lost. :)
Are you going to make FunkedUp's mini-con? If you are bring your Kimber if so inclined. I've got access to a facility with a CQC house (low tech but it would still be fun) and a couple of good tactical ranges that is only ~30 min. South of where FunkedUp is having the mini-con. If you and Hooligan are interested I'll check on the specifics of what needs to be done - I think signed waivers is all you guys would need.
In 3 days I'll know if I'm going to make the mini-con or not.
Mike/wulfie
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There is also such a thing as shooting your competition because he is an impediment to an extremely profitable business.... the only available high profit business. Drunks tend to shoot people and run em over and all sorts of nastiness too.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
There is also such a thing as shooting your competition because he is an impediment to an extremely profitable business.... the only available high profit business. Drunks tend to shoot people and run em over and all sorts of nastiness too.
lazs
Careful, someone might get the impression that you're against the drug war. :D
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imagine if drugs were legal like booze and cigs. EEEEEK.
would hate to see that stat.
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Originally posted by Dnil
imagine if drugs were legal like booze and cigs. EEEEEK.
would hate to see that stat.
I think you might see some more deaths, but the crime rate would probably decrease and California would have to tear down a few dozen prisons. :cool:
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I am a recovered drug addict sandman. I don't know if I am against or for the drug war. Most of the recovered addicts I know are for the drug war. I am not so certain. I am certain that their use should be highly restricted so far as it endangers others. If someone wants to diminish their life or..... miss most of it... I say let em... just don't let em be around me.
I am against being on the freeway or working with people with drugs in their system. People with concealed carry permits should be drug tested randomly just like the dot program.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I am a recovered drug addict sandman. I don't know if I am against or for the drug war. Most of the recovered addicts I know are for the drug war. I am not so certain. I am certain that their use should be highly restricted so far as it endangers others. If someone wants to diminish their life or..... miss most of it... I say let em... just don't let em be around me.
I am against being on the freeway or working with people with drugs in their system. People with concealed carry permits should be drug tested randomly just like the dot program.
lazs
In other words, most of the recovered addicts you know think that prohibition works despite their own addiction. Hmmmm...
As I understand it... you're never recovered, you're always recovering. Best of luck with your demons.
Sincerely.
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if murder was legal, then no murderes either.
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It is legal, but only a mother can get away with it.
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30,000 deaths because of sexual behavior!!! You really are a wierd nation.:D
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Originally posted by mora
30,000 deaths because of sexual behavior!!! You really are a wierd nation.:D
Sheep are not always docile.
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well.... yes sandman... most of the recovering and recovered addicts I know (and it is a considerable amount because of things like AA) feel that the drug war is a good idea... course... they all started with a predispossition and so any exposure set them/us off.
So far as recovered compared to recovering... in the trades (so to speak) when you have spent more time drug free than you did on drugs... you are considered "recovered". Some like to think that after a decade of recovery that they are considered recovered... It's not an exact science.... I like to consider myself recovered. It would be like not finding any trace of cancer in your system after a ten years of recovery.
I do know that anything approching recovery is rare. Everyone who becomes addicted stands only about a 10% at best, chance of recovery... That is why so many are afraid to experiment with legalized drugs.
The question becomes.... How many potential addicts never become addicts because they are law abiding and never try drugs? How many become addicts because the fact that it is ilegal gives it a facination? Addiction seems to go up in the countries that make it legal. I really don't have much of an opinion on it other than I don't want druggies around machinery or working with me.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
[BAddiction seems to go up in the countries that make it legal. [/B]
Any facts on this? I dont know of any countries that have legalized drugs. If you mean pot and Netherlands then you are wrong.
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mora... I could be wrong... what I am thinking about is the semi legalization of drugs like heroin in england say and the experiments with needle parks in, was it your country? Parks where addicts could shoot up unmolested by the police.
So... drug use has not gone up in Finland? I really don't know. Pot use has not gone up? what is the incidence of pot use there compared to other countries? How bout hard drugs?
lazs
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Originally posted by Staga
Dune I couldn't find numbers for firearm kills; Only all kills.
Staga - here you go. You might find more information from this site.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm
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Originally posted by lazs2
mora... I could be wrong... what I am thinking about is the semi legalization of drugs like heroin in england say and the experiments with needle parks in, was it your country? Parks where addicts could shoot up unmolested by the police.
So... drug use has not gone up in Finland? I really don't know. Pot use has not gone up? what is the incidence of pot use there compared to other countries? How bout hard drugs?
lazs
No it's definately not legal here and no needle parks either. Drug use here is small compared to other western countries but on the rise. I think the problem with that needle park in Vienna was that there was suddenly 10,000 junkies in the middle of the city, not exactly a tourist attraction.
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hmmm I live in a town that was in the news 20 years ago because of a law that was passed here. Kennesaw Ga decided it should be a law that all of its citizens should own some type of firearm. The law was passed as a counter point to some towns that had passed a no firearm law.
The law was rescinded around 10 years ago, only because the towns people felt it was your personal right to decide.
Crime rate is still at less than 2% and there hasnt been a murder here since the law was passed.....criminals dont like kennesaw --the odds of getting shot for their crime is greater than most places so they keep on moving to the towns they know liberal anti-guners live...
Thank you liberals, my children can walk around our town without fear......:)
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Originally posted by lazs2
well.... yes sandman... most of the recovering and recovered addicts I know (and it is a considerable amount because of things like AA) feel that the drug war is a good idea... course... they all started with a predispossition and so any exposure set them/us off.
Supporting a losing war that has only made crimminals rich and caused a surge in violent crime suggests that these people have done more damage to their brains than they even realise.
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Laws will not reduce violent crime as much as education and better media can.
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curval... I have seen it from both sides and at the source.. I am not sure that supporting the drug war or not supprting it are a simple thing.
I would be interested in how you would handle the problem since your brain is undamaged.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
curval... I have seen it from both sides and at the source.. I am not sure that supporting the drug war or not supprting it are a simple thing.
I would be interested in how you would handle the problem since your brain is undamaged.
lazs
First let me preface any remarks by saying I am in this thread now to talk to lazs about the drug war. That's it.
Now, as to the above quote:
My brain is far from undamaged. I may not have been dealing crystal meth with bike gangs, but I can safley say I have seen quite a bit of the ugly underbelly of the drug trade.
I'm really quite surprised at your support of, or even indifference to, the whole drug war issue lazs. The bottom line is that drugs are illegal. Why? Don't answer that it is funneling money to drug lords or terrorists...they all came AFTER the drugs were made illegal. Why are they illegal from the outset?
If you boil it down there is only one reason. It is governments waggling their fingers at their respective people and saying "This stuff is BAD for you." It is one more attack on a human beings ability to be free to do what he/she wants to do with their bodies.
What you don't see are those same governments having people standing outside Kentucky Fried Chicken outlets and saying "Don't go in there...that stuff is bad for you."
Now...having made these drugs illegal the same govenments have made the entire business a most profitable venture.
The example of alcohol prohibition in the United States is one example of the failure of such a policy of making something illegal based upon moral and health concerns.
I face the ramifications of the War on Drugs every single day. The cost of doing business..legitimate business..has soared worldwide to prevent criminals from using their ill-got funds.
Our company alone is considering requesting a retainer, almost equal to the retainer required to incorporate a company, to simply open a bank account for our clients. KYC and Due Diligence has led to situations in which compliance departments are actually running the financial institutions.
My solution...Make the drugs legal, save the billions on enforcement of this drug war and instead put it towards education and rehabiliation. You will, at the same time, save additional billions within the financial services industry.
Unfortunaely though, this is but a pipe dream. Why? Because the drug lords, mafia, triads etc have a massive vested interest in seeing this useless war on drugs continue. They NEED to keep drugs illegal, otherwise they are out of business.
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Not to mention the vast amount of our government that relies on this to keep their jobs and the money that is funneled into the governments pockets "privately" by the very people they are fighting.....can you say "bribes"?