Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on October 04, 2003, 06:03:29 AM
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Well, it seems to have been well received, if the BBS is anything to go by. (It isn’t, by the way, as only a minority of subscribers read the BBS, and fewer still post to it)
The first thing I notice is that there’s not much happening at 10-15K. Most of the “action” that I saw occurred down in the weeds. I had decided to make this tour a 109G6 tour, but I’ll have to see how it goes in light of this observation.
I fly Rook these days, and yesterday picked a front line field which happened to be A21. It’s a 10K field, so after taking off I was climbing gently to 15K and heading to A2. Got there in very quick time – no need to have brought that drop tank on my G6. But what did I see? Looked pretty much like a vulchfest to me – rooks vulching whoever they were vulching – (I can’t read those little icon things. Wish we could have three different colours...)
At the airfield, it was wall to wall enemy LA7s – all on the deck. At the town, it was a conveyor belt of LA7s who had managed to get up, and a conveyor belt of Rook goons trying to drop troops, and yet the town was still half up! I got about five LA7s, but clearly this was useless – they were simply re-upping to go goon hunting again. There was no objective in sight with my G6. So for the next sortie, I took a fully laden P47D30. Tried to kill the VH (missed :() and then used the remaining ord to finish the town and the FLAK that was defending it. More goons were arriving, and even as one got shot, another was dropping troops. I had to leave just then, but tried to RTB to land. I knew I couldn’t make it because I was being chased down by two LA7s. Seems like the friendlies had all been killed, or augered – probably the latter, knowing that a mouse click would give them a brand new plane with a 9K alt advantage, and the target was only 5 mins away. Gawd, I was afraid of that... :(
I think back to when the pizza map was new. At first glance it looked ridiculous, still does – a mass of airfields and V-bases, most of which will never be in use at any one time because the fighting is always going to take place between front line fields. At least there were the V bases around the edge – good fun to be had. And now I’m looking at Fester’s map, and what I see is... a mass of airfields and V-bases, most of which will never be in use at any one time because the fighting is always going to take place between front line fields.
:confused:
What is the point of having so many bases? At any time, only about 5-10% of them will be in use. The strat targets are tucked away so far back that they might as well not exist, which is of course what the furballers want. I looked at where A21 is (rook front line at that time), and if the knits/bish were to mount an attack on Rook HQ, the route would take them to within about 10 miles of around 15-20 bases!!! Plenty of time for bardar to give that game away, and by the time they got to HQ, the Me163s would be waiting. :rolleyes:
I enjoyed the time I spent online last night, but this map is clearly furballcentric. If that’s what people want, so be it. (But please refer to the purple text in my sig.)
So then I turned my attention to what people want out of a map. Various people (including Fester himself) were RTBing with bucketloads of kills – does that equate to quality gameplay? Well, it boosts the scores, but is there any real sense of achievement or purpose? The weed-wackers are proud of the fact that they don’t exceed 6K, and have clamoured for the fields to be closer together, so it seems reasonable that their wish was to get to the enemy field as quickly as possible. If they are then getting tons of kills at 6K, it follows that the enemy is at or below 6K, and given that the enemy won’t be far from home base, it follows that a lot of kills they’re seeing are vulches. This is borne out by guys getting a high k/h. Once all the cons are dead, that ought to be an end to it. But the fact that the slaughter continues in order for them to get that high k/h smacks of re-upped cons, and vulching.
But vulching is popular. No-one will admit to it on the BBS, but you only have to observe. I have film of all my sorties (oops, I said the F-word), and will review these later. (Can’t post them because I’m on a temporary ISP till Monday – no FTP host) The only kills I saw at 10K or higher were the Spit I nobbled (bish attacking knit) and a 1v1 I had with a P51. As always, the planes I’m killing the most are the usual dweeb subset – LA7/Spit ix/P51/Yak-9U ... So, get together in a gaggle, and what you have here is a vulcher’s paradise. :D
But why so many fields? Why not have a thinner layer of fields between the 3-way front line and the HQ or other strat targets? That way, buffs would stand a chance of having some meaning in this game, other than being used for unrealistic 500’ dive-bombing of CVs. :rolleyes: There would surely be some good combat arising out of defence of those strat targets. It might even make the game interesting!
I’m not a natural map whiner, and I will enjoy my time on this map once I adapt to it, but is it anything more than a glorified DA?
But Fester for having the cajones (or whatever that word is that the Yanks use) for producing this map instead of just whining about the existing maps.
Flame away, guys, flame away... and don’t forget to read that purple sig. text.
:D
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I say its to early really to pass judgement......
1 Day in the MA will not give you everything you need too see....
up to now we had a GREAT time as a squad.....we always do.:D
just call it Festers Furball Map....
BTW you saw alot of LaLa's....I saw alot of Niki's:eek:
a 5k niki can't do much against my 5k typhoon :rofl
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Not to defend Fester (cause he kills me all the time and I hate him) I kinda like a map where you can take off, vulch, furball and land the kills(assuming you survive) all without having to pull up your gear.....:rofl
If you take a real good look at the map, you can see how the game play is actually forced along certain lines, and retaliation for having a field attacked can be swift and brutal.
Unlike pizza where the action is random or mindano where there are so few choses on attack approaches and defence lines.
I cant compare this map to any other because I think Fester actually took some time thinking about placement of fields, or I could be wrong and he just wanted to have quick getaway field close to land his (30,000) kills......
Think I might like ya just a little now Fester hehehe...
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I got to "Well, it seems... then saw the wall of text.
Pass.
I find impossible anyone can be so bored or so self absorbed they can't just make a simple point on the bbs.
It's a shame, I might agree.
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Try considering it as the counterweight to Big Isles. Yin and Yang.
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I like the map. Being one that doesn't up from a capped field, I like being able to up from an adjacent field and be able to get into the action in a short amount of time.
The GV guys must be ticked though. Lots of miles to drive to get any action.
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It doesnt play like the map it was built after thats for sure. Ill give it another week to see what my over all impression is.
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Finally a map where i can fly my 152 in peace.
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Originally posted by Blooz
The GV guys must be ticked though. Lots of miles to drive to get any action.
Last night i was capping the ground guys for a bit, probably the hugest gv wars I ahve ever seen. I think the gv guys are (or should) be happy.
The adding a town to the gv bases was a very cool idea too, gives em more to shoot and slows down the milkrunning a bit. (Larger towns at airbases would be great for same reason)
A rearm pad for aircraft at gv bases (on all maps really) would be a welcome addition.
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Typical Beet1e,
Kneejerk reactions are never good.
Kamori
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Originally posted by kamori
Typical Beet1e,
Kneejerk reactions are never good.
Kamori
All I got out of it was waaaaa.... other people where not playing my game the way I wanted them to at the time I wanted!! Must blame others!! waaaaaa.. and the there was some more but why would he expect people to be upping from bases 200 miles behind the lines to go fight when there were many other selections close. The answer is obvious and it happens on every map.
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Originally posted by beet1e
But vulching is popular. No-one will admit to it on the BBS, but you only have to observe.
I admit I vulch, and I do it well.
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LOVE IT!
:D :D :D
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This became my favorite map almost immediately. There's something for everyone. Furball mavens have close fields at similar altitudes. CV guys have plenty of opportunities for action.
Strategy players can plan and execute missions, and GV drivers will be in "hog heaven".
Fester did a remarkable job, in virtually no time at all. Extremely impressive effort. It wasn't but a few weeks ago when Fester stated he was going to design a map that would provide everyone with something they would like. To that end, this is exactly what he did. :eek:
My regards,
Widewing
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So far it's a very good job :)
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Originally posted by drone
If you take a real good look at the map, you can see how the game play is actually forced along certain lines
hmm... I was afraid of that. Although it could be said that all maps do that in one way or another.
To my mind, any map is good if it can avoid the all too monotonous scenario of a long green darbar with a short red one in one sector, and a long red one and a short green one in a nearby sector. That is where the children’s maps fail miserably. Still, they were designed at a time when peak attendance was much lower than it is now, as was bardar.
No-one has answered why there are so many fields. What’s the point? Get rid of all that outer map area and keep the front line bases and a few other fields. Those interested in winning the war (is there anything wrong with that?) would fight hard to get to the strat targets, and the fighter jocks could have fun killing them. Brand-W worked like that in the old 4-colour days. Ah yes, I hear you say, but there were fewer people online. Perhaps, but it shouldn’t make any difference, given that as things stand there are layers and layers of unused fields.
I agree, let’s give it some time, but let’s keep an open mind. The WW2A concept in Brand-W was once hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread – even I was all for it myself. But as more and more people saw the crap gameplay it engendered, more and more people hated it, and some of us left partly because of it. If all this new Fester map offers is endless vulchfests, it’s not a problem – I’ll go to the CT. I get no sense of satisfaction from vulching, for the same reason I would get no sense of satisfaction from flying LA7/Spit ix/P51/Yak9U – no challenge.
But I agree with kamori - maybe my post was a kneejerk reaction. I'm afraid I've not had enough time to fly AH in recent weeks.
Map design or, more to the point, designing a map which will create good gameplay, is a complicated business with many factors to consider. Sorry my initial post was so long. I see that its length resulted in Creamo suffering a vodka induced bout of cerebral palsy. Get well soon, Creamo, and quit being a cheapskate – spend some $ and get Finlandia instead of your normal gutrot brand. Make it to the WCMC and I might even bring you some from Duty Free!
Straffo - I love your avatar! I want one with a union jack flying from Big Ben, with a bottle of beer and some fish and chips!
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In one day I got more good fights on fester's map than I've managed to get in months. PLUS lots of good vulches!
I like the way the fights seem to spread out over a whole front, rather than just a giant furballl between two bases. On some of the other maps, once a field gets vulched, it's as good as captured, but on festerma, players will fly from neighboring bases to help, since its not a 35mile flight.
Good flights, plus good vulching, the fighting spreading out, and defending fields becoming easier. Whats not to love?
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Originally posted by Widewing
This became my favorite map almost immediately. There's something for everyone. Furball mavens have close fields at similar altitudes. CV guys have plenty of opportunities for action.
Strategy players can plan and execute missions, and GV drivers will be in "hog heaven".
Fester did a remarkable job, in virtually no time at all. Extremely impressive effort. It wasn't but a few weeks ago when Fester stated he was going to design a map that would provide everyone with something they would like. To that end, this is exactly what he did. :eek:
My regards,
Widewing
Yeah, I like it. And it's purdy. :D
GJ, Fffff ........
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damn I just cancelled my account last week, I guess I should have waited.
Anyway its good to hear.
Is it 512 x 512? How large is the land mass?
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Beet1e wrote:
No-one has answered why there are so many fields...
My understanding is that this is simply because HTC has mandated the map size and number of bases. As far as the number of bases in particular, presumably HTC wants a certain amount of effort to cause a reset... i.e. the rooks will have to capture at least 100 bases (or whatever) to cause a reset. Less bases means faster resets. More bases means slower resets. HTC makes this choice, not the individual map designers.
Drone wrote:
If you take a real good look at the map, you can see how the game play is actually forced along certain lines, and retaliation for having a field attacked can be swift and brutal.
This statement is only partially true. Fester's design does not so much force behavior as allow it. To illustrate: If the shortest distance between MA bases is a 30 minute flight, this will "force" players in many cases to fly long distances to find a fight. However if front line MA fields are 1 min apart, this does not "force" players to engage in short range flights. You always have the choice to take off from a rearward base and climb for 20 minutes away from the action. In both cases you can always choose to fly and climb a long time before seeking out the enemy. However with long distances between bases you cannot simply choose to engage the enemy with a short flight. Much more than any other MA map, Fester's map actually provides the players with choices as opposed to forcing their activities by limiting their choices. What Fester's map does do is it rather dramatically illustrates the type of actions most players will voluntarily choose if they have the ability to do so.
Widewing's assesment of this map are absolutely correct IMO.
Hooligan
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It's lone wolf/scorepotato/cherrypicker heaven.
The furballs are basically like wacking fish in the barrel. Stand over the barrel, looking at those fish swim around right before your eyes.. and then you wack them one by one. Then turn around, fly 10 miles back home and land 6~10 kills. Get up again, watch the fish play amongst themselves again, and then wack some more of them and land kills again...
So convenient.. it's like bears waiting at the upper riverbanks where salmon return....
...
But then again, it's still a fun map. Like Toad said, we have Big Isles or Trinity.. and then we have FesterMA... An alternative of the opposite extremes I guess.. :D
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I wish there were no airfeilds and v bases..only cv's and ports...now that would be a hoot!
BTW..WTG Fester!..it looks like a lot of work u put into it and is great!
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Reminds me a lot of the old beta maps:)
WTG Fester
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Note: This is not a personal attack.
How many people actually read all of bett1e's post?
And...WTG Fester.
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I read beetle's post.
There's alot of 1 feild wide fronts on this map. I guess that could conceivably promote furballs, but it just seems to be mass vulch and roll to the next base sessions. Not that I mind that.
It does seem that moving the bases together moves the fights to the fields... it does nothing to keep them halfway between.
MiniD
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Who's Beetle , is he in AH.
Heard of an Uncle Beetle once , ain't seen him in a while.
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Lots of great furballing, sometimes stepping over to vulch on the near base, but that's the fault of the players losing the furball.
Still are some (though less) guys ready to avoid it and go pork(dying by it usually) fuels and kill the great furball. wtf?
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Haven't played it yet, so no comment.
A question though:
Is everything that one can do "strategically" on Pizza or Trinity or Big Isles still available to do on Fester?
Is everything that one can do with "Ground Vehicles" on Pizza or Trinity or Big Isles still available to do on Fester?
It's all right there for yas still, right?
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Its still there toad... there just isn't much of a point to it. Mob mentality is taken to the nth degree on this map. No real point in defending if it's so easy to capture.
Oh... and I do believe alot of people are losely defining "furball" to mean 10 low cons chasing 1 enemy while 1 more enemy shows up above them.
MiniD
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Pardon me if I point out that there's not much point to any of this.
If you get shot down, you instantly get a new plane. If you die, you're not dead, if the map gets reset, the game begins again.
But I digress....
;)
It's good to know that all the options are still available on this map. I look forward to giving it a try.
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Play it toad. Till then you're just trying to stir up ****.
BTW... map hasn't really moved much in any direction. Bases get captured... then recaptured... but not really any major changes.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Drunky
Note: This is not a personal attack.
How many people actually read all of bett1e's post?
And...WTG Fester.
Beetle posted?
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I expected to like this map a lot but I’m not liking it like I thought I would. Beetle described most of it.
Also, I've never seen so many low bomber dweebs as came out of A21 to hit A2 and later the other Knight bases to the east. No aiming, let alone calibration, they just dropped into the dirt with the fighters and car bombed the fields. It was crap and they were easily killed.
Fester. It's a good effort and maybe the game play will change for a better fit.
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Been busy; gonna try to play some tomorrow nite. Just curious to see if anything had been "left out" that was considered essential by someone. Is there a "tank town" per se, for example?
You're saying it's hard to reset?
This gets even more interesting.
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i think once the novelty wears off, it's not gonna be that haaaaaard to reset... it'll be doable, but will take a lot of effort and numbers.
people said the same abt pizza and trinity...
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Thanks for reading this thread, guys. It know my post was long, but there's a lot to this subject - can't condense it to 3-4 lines.
Hooligan - technically, you are correct in saying that no-one is being "forced" to adopt certain play styles. But are you considering the buff guys? Folks say that this game originated as an "air combat" sim. Fact is that buffs were always there too. What is left for them now? The strat targets like HQ are so far behind enemy lines that they might as well not exist. The only way the buffs are going to make it through to HQ is if the enemy side is so heavily outnumbered that it's down to a handful of bases, in which case the dweebs will switch to the winning side to grab reset perks, the gangbangers will be there in force, and just for good measure, maybe then a buff squad will make it through to the Me163 field to kill the fighter hangars. When the game reaches the stage at which the HQ is going to play any significant role, the war's good as over. I was hoping to hear from some buffers - maybe MuckMAW, but it seems like buffers are becoming extinct. Maps like this will accelerate the process. As Easyscor points out, buffs are being used for that 10K "air start" run down to A2 to dump a load of ord and then auger. Is this quality gameplay? I think not. Now I have not "buffed" in over a year, but I like balance. And this map is fightercentric and furballcentric.
The buff guys have not really been considered. No-one is "forcing" anyone to fly fighters and not buffs, but the purpose of flying buffs has, on this map, been removed.
MiniD! Thanks for joining, and reading my post. I've read your posts about gameplay and what you would like from this game, and my views are identical to yours. Originally posted by Innominate
Good flights, plus good vulching, the fighting spreading out, and defending fields becoming easier. Whats not to love?
To my mind, "good vulching" is an oxymoron.
I had time for only one sortie last night - 109G6. I was lone wolf so needed alt. I levelled out at 15K. I could see rooks enjoying a vulchfest in the distance, but didn't even bother to go to icon range, never mind climb aboard the hamster wheel. A lone P51 got dangerously close to me, but as I turned he was gone, and then a P38 jumped me. I managed to secure an alt advantage over the P38, whereupon he ran away...
I logged off. By that time, I was out of quarters anyway.
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Hey its a fresh new map!
Or do you like flying the same old crap?
WTFG Fester:D
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Supreme excellence consists of a good vulch.
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OK, it was a long post. The only two to whine about that were Creamo and Drunky. Creamo likes a drink (check his profile) and Drunky - his handle says it all. So here is a condensed version for them.
- WTG Fester - nice map
- Keep it mostly the same, including field spacing if that's what's wanted, but...
- Cut down on the number of fields, and...
- Make HQ raids by buffs viable (damn it, we have the Me163 FFS - don't need that ring of steel), and...
- Give buffs a purpose, other than suicide dive bombing.
It's a furballcentric map; I don't mind that, as long as we can keep Pizza.
Balance, my boy, balance...;)
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I didn't whine, and you have been trained quite nicely I see.
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not part of those people.
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Originally posted by beet1e
# "Changing a terrain to force certain play styles is the same as mandating players to play a certain way".
- Skuzzy
I'm not sure if the game play changes are a good or bad thing, but that it is changing for sure - a change can't please all, so for some a different style of gameplay is enforced.
And even bigger changes might be ahead, think of carriers driving up the shore beeing somewhat unkillable, and fields untakable while crowded in GVs...
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97793
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Originally posted by beet1e
The buff guys have not really been considered. No-one is "forcing" anyone to fly fighters and not buffs, but the purpose of flying buffs has, on this map, been removed.
I don't agre that buff guys haven't been considered - HQ isn't the only strat target - there are, I think, 12 zones, therefore 8 enemy sets of factories, cities etc scattered all over the map and very often only a short distance away from a friendly base. However, I prefer to grab some altitude before heading to a target, so I will usually take off from a more distant base anyway. The only problem I had when I tried a buff run the other night was we captured the zone base of a factory I was just lining up on which of course turned it green.... :)
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I stand corrected Hooligan.... you actually captured the jist better than I, and thats what I meant lol....Instead of forced-----should have said "allowed"
As far as buffing (agree with ya floss) I like flying my 26 3' off the ground------keeps you cannon dweebs a little more honest....
I believe the play is greater on this map......
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it comes down to this.
if you don't like it or want a map thats laid out different....
BUILD YOUR OWN!!!
see I get to build the map exactly how I want it. thats what I did thats what I will do on the next map I build because I didnt like the current maps. I wanted instant action for ground vehicle and airplanes and buffs. for me personally I have found some of the best gv wars and fastest even sided furballs and seen more buffs than ive seen in quite a while.
beetle you dont get to get a map exactly the way you like it till you build your own.
whine all you want ***** all you want but it isnt going to change the simple fact that only you can build a map exactly how you want it.
look on the bright side. my terrain is only up for a week then back to bigisles. a map designed completely different to someone elses prefferences (but still not yours)
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fester hit the nail on the head -----but I still hate you :)
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"in which case the dweebs will switch to the winning side to grab reset perks"
Why must people continue to perpetutate this myth.
You CAN'T receive reset perk points unless you have been a member of the resetting country for at least 12 hours.
Unless these dweebs have some sort of pyshic powers and know that the reset will happen in 12 hours and 1 minute and choose to switch sides, they WILL NOT get perks points.
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Originally posted by Citabria
BUILD YOUR OWN!!!
What makes you think that a map that favoured some other kind of game play would be put up in the MA?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
"in which case the dweebs will switch to the winning side to grab reset perks"
Why must people continue to perpetutate this myth.
You CAN'T receive reset perk points unless you have been a member of the resetting country for at least 12 hours.
Unless these dweebs have some sort of pyshic powers and know that the reset will happen in 12 hours and 1 minute and choose to switch sides, they WILL NOT get perks points.
That doesn't stop them from switching ;)
Maybe the perks aren't even the reason for side switches near reset, maybe there aren't even side switchers and it's just many logging off...
What difference does it make?
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ccvi the things that will keep your map from getting into the MA are errors and bugs.
HTC leave map setup and strategy to the terrain maker.
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Originally posted by ccvi
That doesn't stop them from switching ;)
Maybe the perks aren't even the reason for side switches near reset, maybe there aren't even side switchers and it's just many logging off...
What difference does it make?
It really doesn't make a difference, at least to me. I could give a rats *** if you can switch sides every 5 minutes.
The myth (that beet1e was perpetuating) that one can switch sides just before an apparent reset and receive perk points is wrong ... thats all I was trying to point out ... nothing more ... nothing less.
OH and BTW ... WTFG Fester ... your Map rocks. Thanks for the effort <>
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I got a short attention span.....the first post was too long! Someone paraphrase it for me......lol:eek:
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Originally posted by beet1e
OK, it was a long post. The only two to whine about that were Creamo and Drunky. Creamo likes a drink (check his profile) and Drunky - his handle says it all. So here is a condensed version for them. - WTG Fester - nice map
- Keep it mostly the same, including field spacing if that's what's wanted, but...
- Cut down on the number of fields, and...
- Make HQ raids by buffs viable (damn it, we have the Me163 FFS - don't need that ring of steel), and...
- Give buffs a purpose, other than suicide dive bombing.
It's a furballcentric map; I don't mind that, as long as we can keep Pizza.
Balance, my boy, balance...;) [/B]
LOL. Thank you for the summary. And please note: I wasn't whinning. I was actually wondering how many people read all of your post.
I'm not much for prose. I prefer just the facts, as it were.
Have a nice day and don't forget to flush after using the toilet. :)
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Originally posted by ccvi
.
And even bigger changes might be ahead, think of carriers driving up the shore beeing somewhat unkillable, and fields untakable while crowded in GVs...
[/url]
..............and Kevlar chutes with indestructable bombers that can carry unlimited poundage due to the fact the fields will be indestructable. Maybe fighter planes that can`t shoot each other down , trade the GVs for dayglo painted buses to transport players to a large peace sign shaped field to drink virtual wine and listen to nonstop virtual music including a virtual Jimi, Janice, Country Joe And The Fish, etc. while wallowing naked in the virtual mud.(Please do not take the virtual brown acid).
Or we could just log off and go play virtual dominoes..................... ........with no spots.
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Originally posted by Citabria
ccvi the things that will keep your map from getting into the MA are errors and bugs.
HTC leave map setup and strategy to the terrain maker.
What you're saying is:
If someone builds an error free map (no graphic glichtes, working spawnpoints etc.)
but with fields 100 miles apart
that one would be put up in the MA? :lol
A certain technical level surely is require, but obviously not sufficient.
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I want to see 99gatso map it looks great. I like to see more water and more CV action. :eek:
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Fester, I'm not whining about your map. I'm making observations about the gameplay on this map. Read the title again. And I am not alone in having noticed all the extra vulching. In addition to that, I simply asked why there were so many bases, and why HQ was buried so deeply behind enemy lines.
But it's already clear that pork-n-auger is going to be an even bigger factor than before, what with buffs starting at 10K from A21 and gliding down to A2.
Always remember, what was a popular concept one day can be the death of a game a few months later. BTDT,GTT-S.
As for changing sides to pick up reset perks, I was told that guys had done that in the past. Perhaps it was fixed. I don't know much about sideswitching. I've only done it once in the last year.
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You should make your own map, Beet1e. Or just go to the DA if you don't like it. Or something else. Because, as you know, it most definitely is. At least it was, when I filmed my 27 kill mission in a P-40B in 3 minutes and 17 seconds. Of course, that was on an adult map and no dweebasaurus Rex as you probably surmised. Not to mention the fine Azerbaijan red that went well with Zucchnni's choice of entree!
Erm?
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Originally posted by Creamo
I got to "Well, it seems... then saw the wall of text.
Pass.
I find impossible anyone can be so bored or so self absorbed they can't just make a simple point on the bbs.
It's a shame, I might agree.
LOL! beet1e makes enormous posts like this regularly; generally to pat himself on the back. I got a bit farther than you... I finished the first paragraph.
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"....How many people actually read all of bett1e's post? ....".
I tried to, I really did...but started to get very sleepy.
P.S. I thought War and Peace was a gread read.
yowser
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I got a couple cents and a dog in this fight, so I'm gonna say what I think of all this.
FesterMA is, if nothing else, a bundle of action packed excitement. It's interesting in the little strange and mischievious features found there, like some vehicle bases so close together they can have an ack duel. And the spawn points that provide a form of tank town action, spread across the map (we all know how Fester loves to camp). There's so much going on all the time a person must try hard to get bored.
About the vulching and suicidal jabos: So what if it doesn't affect everyone else (you ain't gonna stop it anyway)? Why should one be bothered by what's what's going on somewhere in a sector far far away? It's only a problem when the red tide marches across the map devouring bases as it goes. We haven't seen this yet, and quite honestly, I haven't seen it much in the past few weeks. Maybe some of the discussion here has had an impact.
About the buffers. In a strategic sense, missions should be long and daring. This is one of the forms of game play that mimmics real life, and Ploesti wasn't a cake walk. IMHO, the strat targets shouldn't be located within spitting distance, for then something hard to achieve turns into a common occurance. There have been times I've played for days without seein a red radar blip. But if a buff driver needs purpose, what better purpose than killing CVs, massive GV raids, or the cities?
Speaking of cities, placing these at vehicle bases was a master stroke. Gone are the days when vehicle bases would drop like flies. One of the problems I have with bases so far is the lack of defense there. I'd like to see Fester add three times as many field guns and some dummy VHs to complicate capture.
There is something for everyone in FesterMA, if one would look for it rather than be bothered because someone else is doing something you don't like.
Each terrain has it's own flavor and character. None is one size fits all. Like Trinity and Big Isles, Fester's terrain has provided a new dimension in AH game play. I thank Fester for all the work he did to give it to us.
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Originally posted by Toad
You should make your own map, Beet1e. Or just go to the DA if you don't like it.
Oh, touché, Bufo Marinus! :lol
Wait a minute, I thought I was in the DA... Nope, it's Fester-ma - :p
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Originally posted by wetrat
LOL! beet1e makes enormous posts like this regularly; generally to pat himself on the back. I got a bit farther than you... I finished the first paragraph.
Hehehe that's a paragraph more than me. Great map Fester. WTG and thanks for all the work. :D
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Originally posted by BNM
Hehehe that's a paragraph more than me. Great map Fester. WTG and thanks for all the work. :D
LOL - BNM reading my threads - GREEN sig. text applies. :lol
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Kudos to Fester for taking the trouble to create this map. Gotta say though that it looks like the furballers dream. Most fields on the same level and really close together so you don't have to do annoying things like climb or travel from one base to the next... Gotta say though the Quake style furballing thing gets old pretty quickly for me and this map seem to encourage it even more than the others, but that's just my opinion...
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Originally posted by beet1e
Fester, I'm not whining about your map. I'm making observations about the gameplay on this map. Read the title again. And I am not alone in having noticed all the extra vulching.
He's right, it is a huge vulch fest but I had fun doing so. Im afraid it may wear off soon if you play enough.
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you guys can eaisly take off the next base or 2 back, grab 15-20k easy and still find plenty of action up at that alt...
i'm not having any difficulty seeing a diversity in styles of gameplay on this map. this will be borne out as people start to explore various strategies on this map - the action will spread out somewhat. and those who love to furball will have the middle of the map. everyone's happy.
of course it's harder to cherrypick a furball and make a clean escape due to closer fields, but not impossible.
i think this is a pretty good map that could use a *few* tweaks.
it's been amazingly bug-free too on my end.
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Originally posted by Toad
, when I filmed my 27 kill mission in a P-40B in 3 minutes and 17 seconds.
Erm?
You killed 27 planes in air to air combat in a p40b in 3 mins and 17 secs???? That is a film I would like to see!
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Damn fine map Fester .... Thank You!
Pirate
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Fester, NICE MAP!!! Great work. :) ~S~!!!
I don't dislike any of the maps but this one is prob my favorite.
Beetle, interesting viewpoint. But since I like the fighting rather than the time flying to the fight, I like this map.
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you where for-warned about critizism Fester......
Beetle posted about Gameplay.....not the map.....
great gv battles.....quick fights.....always tryin to punch a hole somewhere to get adv......lotsa fun.
alot of niki's and lala's...but hey....thats normal:eek:
and Beetle...try keepin posts shorter mate
and its only for 1 week:D
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can't yu no action types read a radar? All you have to do is look at the dar and then find a spot that is deserted and fly there. you can still fly out a tank of fuel and not see any enemy players.
lazs
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Originally posted by Shane
i think once the novelty wears off, it's not gonna be that haaaaaard to reset... it'll be doable, but will take a lot of effort and numbers.
people said the same abt pizza and trinity...
and as of 10/06/03 the map has been reset.. by rooks i think; the groundwork was laid by the rook RJO on sunday evening... massive rook #'s with the help of their bishes had knits down to a thin green line of bases that were finally taken sometime in the wee hours (US) of monday morning.
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Originally posted by Citabria
I wanted instant action for ground vehicle and airplanes and buffs. for me personally I have found some of the best gv wars and fastest even sided furballs and seen more buffs than ive seen in quite a while.
I like this map. I like the way it channels the path of conquest along certain lines. It makes it easier to figure out what's going on as soon as I log on.
In fact, I like any map where an early or mid-war plane has a good chance of success. I did some hops in a Spit Mk I, a P-40E, a FM2, a 109F, and a Spitfire Mk V over the weekend, just to test the map out.
I'm ruling the skies
In Spitfire Fives! :D
With the bases close to each other, I'm encountering enemy planes about 10k off the deck. The hilly terrain also makes it easier to do NOE runs on unsuspecting enemy bases, which is good for medium bombers that lack a belly gun.
I've seen some pretty good GV wars, too. I think if we had more than 2 or 3 tanks to choose from, this map would really shine.
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It's a good map, Fester. Good job. It presents some fresh ideas and offers some fast-paced action.
And you made it in less than the 9 months people told you it would take.... :D
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Originally posted by Shane
and as of 10/20/03 the map has been reset.. by rooks i think; the groundwork was laid by the rook RJO on sunday evening... massive rook #'s with the help of their bishes had knits down to a thin green line of bases that were finally taken sometime in the wee hours (US) of monday morning.
Wow, that's great! Too bad I missed out. I really gotta check my email more often... :(
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i screwed the date tho' dunno how 10/20 ended up there instead of 10/06...
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Quotes from this thread -
- I admit I vulch, and I do it well.
- lots of good vulches!
- Good flights, plus good vulching
- it just seems to be mass vulch and roll to the next base sessions.
- Mob mentality is taken to the nth degree on this map.
- I've never seen so many low bomber dweebs as came out of A21 to hit A2 and later the other Knight bases to the east. No aiming, let alone calibration, they just dropped into the dirt with the fighters and car bombed the fields. It was crap and they were easily killed.
- Supreme excellence consists of a good vulch.
- He's right, it is a huge vulch fest but I had fun doing so. Im afraid it may wear off soon if you play enough.
- Gotta say though the Quake style furballing thing gets old pretty quickly for me and this map seem to encourage it even more than the others
Yep, I can see why this map is so popular with the MA guys. Now get back in there. In the time it's taken you to read this, you've passed four enemy bases. And get ready with that oxygen mask - you're approaching 6K.
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Well, I'll chime in...
I've had a great time grabbing a GV and being in some of the largest GV fights I can recall. Man, I had stuff coming at me from every direction....great fun.
I also had a good time upping an IL-2 and helping my gv team mates block a GV invasion of one of our bases.
Heck, I even took the time to up a Lanc from that 10k field, climb to 16k and do some serious bomb runs. There wasn't much else flying that high but what was up there was *really* good. A few 190s trimmed my formation down to 2 or 1 a few times. I even made it back on every sortie. Woohoo!
And even though I suck in them...I was up many times in fighters, doing the 5 minute hop from field to fight, if gas allowed.
Overall, the map offers it all. I think in the 3 days of play, I don't think any side has gained any real ground.
As to vulching...who really cares? I've been shot up on the ground innumerable times. Big deal. When I've got 54 500 pound bombs at my ready on the Lanc, its an old favorite of mine to just pepper the runway and watch the perk points rack up :p
Good map, Fester!
No matter you do, there will always be someone complaining despite your best efforts.
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A post for the Attention span challenged..
Map=Good.
Muck having fun
My K/H=9!
I suck!
Mucho Vulch.
All furball, no waiting.
GV's having fun
Good spawn points.
From a bomber point of view...
Well, being a bomber does not make a whole hell of alot of sense anymore. Any job a level bomber can do, a Jabo can do faster and in most cases, more accurately.
The only role for level bombers is CV killing, (Which most guys do by dive bombing lancs:rolleyes: ) and large scale strat raids. Now, level bombers were designed for large scale strat raids, but as I've said before, the strategic targets to do not have enough of an impact on the overall war to warrant the long mission.
It makes more sense to take the same guys you would use to kill zone strat, to up a ton of Jabos, and take the damn zone.
Maybe, if we see a map where the front line stagnates, you would see hvy bombers used to weaken a countries resources. Maybe.
In order for level bombers to come back into the game, their actions need to have a more direct impact on the overall war's situation.
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Beetle....
This map in no way prohibits you from your strat minded gameplay...it does allow for those of us who would like some action without having to fly a sector and a half to find it.
That clearly bothers you....and I'm not suprised you posted about it...I told several that you would whine.:)
As to you purple quote, every map is designed to promote a specific type of game play...balanced gameplay...you know, the kind where everyone might enjoy themselves
:rolleyes:
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Muck
Can you imagine the whines if our bombers shut down the La7 plant :p
I agree the bombers dont have much of a role...with the GV spawns so close to cities, I was targetting VHs to halt the GV attacks on our front line base
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Originally posted by LePaul
Muck
Can you imagine the whines if our bombers shut down the La7 plant :p
I agree the bombers dont have much of a role...with the GV spawns so close to cities, I was targetting VHs to halt the GV attacks on our front line base
Oh crap I forgot to mention that in the Wall O' Text.
The GVs are TOTALLY EATING OUR LUNCH on this map.
That's one thing that sucks. Now, I don't know how common it is, but I saw it 3 times yesterday. A lone Panzer pounding away at a strat target, with no opposition.
It's not bad enough that heavies have no role in this game. Even the one thing they can do is being handed to the GVs!
I dream of the day when we'd have a fighter plant to bomb! I imagine the furballs that would happen as an escorted bomber stream makes it's way toward a Spitfire factory!
heheh...
I'm guessing it will never happen, though. It did work in AW, though, did'nt it? I can't remember.
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NOE level bombers are good for leveling cities, then running an M3 into the town for the capture. ;)
Its kinda like the B-52 evolution from high-alt strat bombers to low-alt carpet bombers.
The mountains of FesterMA are just the right height for hiding B-26s and Lancasters from radar and enemy aircraft (B-17s are too shiny and easy to spot from above). Send'em over one at a time though, or you may lose your drones to ground impact.
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Why so many bases?
Uhhhh does this question only apply to FesterMA? I hope your referring to all 512x512 maps. So what if there are a lot of bases. Exactly why is that a problem for you?
Beetle I believe your observations should still be labeled as presumptions until this map has been played more than twice. There are still dynamics that need to be worked out by the general population. The perception by some is that it seems to be a vulch fest. I disagree. There is plenty going on out on the fringes and plenty of zone strat to bash/defend. Just the other day Ripsnort and I tried to defend a V-base in the southern line with fighters. to Plumbitt for the radiator holes from his B-26.
Presumptions should always be kept to ones self for fear of looking like an idiot.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Quotes from this thread - - I admit I vulch, and I do it well.
- lots of good vulches!
- Good flights, plus good vulching
- it just seems to be mass vulch and roll to the next base sessions.
- Mob mentality is taken to the nth degree on this map.
- I've never seen so many low bomber dweebs as came out of A21 to hit A2 and later the other Knight bases to the east. No aiming, let alone calibration, they just dropped into the dirt with the fighters and car bombed the fields. It was crap and they were easily killed.
- Supreme excellence consists of a good vulch.
- He's right, it is a huge vulch fest but I had fun doing so. Im afraid it may wear off soon if you play enough.
- Gotta say though the Quake style furballing thing gets old pretty quickly for me and this map seem to encourage it even more than the others
Yep, I can see why this map is so popular with the MA guys. Now get back in there. In the time it's taken you to read this, you've passed four enemy bases. And get ready with that oxygen mask - you're approaching 6K. [/B]
Okay...my list of quotes.
- I
- It
- Is
- Knights
- Bish
- Rooks
- You
- Map
- Base
I found each of these at least 10 times in other people's post. So there you go. Obviously these must be incredibly important for others to have said so ofter...wait, you mean there not. You mean I simply pulled these words out of context and placed them in a list in an attempt to manipulate what other's have said to further my point of view? Unheard of.
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Drunky,
I see you deliberately ignored "the" in your attempt to slant the meaning of this thread.
It didn't go unnoticed and I think everyone can see what you're trying to sneak through here.
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Originally posted by Rude
Beetle....
This map in no way prohibits you from your strat minded gameplay...it does allow for those of us who would like some action without having to fly a sector and a half to find it.
That clearly bothers you....and I'm not suprised you posted about it...I told several that you would whine.:)
As to you purple quote, every map is designed to promote a specific type of game play...balanced gameplay...you know, the kind where everyone might enjoy themselves
:rolleyes:
Rude! I am not whining about this map, any more than Creamo and Drunky were whining about the length of my initial post. I have questions about its design, and have been asking them in context with the gameplay I have seen thus far. I'm glad you're now in furball heaven, and having fun. Can I just remind you that the HTC home page describes this game as a "WWII Combat Experience". On this map, in what way does the gameplay resemble the combat which took place in WWII? As for map whines, my entire posts on this subject have a length of about 0.006% of the total pizza whine posts. If countering map whines is your business, you've got some catching up to do. "I told several that you would whine." -I'm flattered to be such a talking point.
ACID - Uhhhh does this question only apply to FesterMA? I hope your referring to all 512x512 maps. So what if there are a lot of bases. Exactly why is that a problem for you?
It isn't a problem. There are hundreds of bases on the pizza map, and it's not a problem for me there either. I commented on the number of pizza map bases at the time of its inception, and that at certain times of the day the number of bases exceeded the number of players. :lol My exact description was "a ridiculous looking map".
So I was expecting a departure from that kind of design, but instead, we have another map with layers and layers of unused bases.
Speaking of early presumptions, a lot of guys are making the early presumption that this map is going to be good. I hope they are right. A lot of people made the early presumption that the WB WW2A would be GREAT - and a lot of people looked like idiots afterwards.
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Originally posted by Shane
and as of 10/06/03 the map has been reset.. by rooks i think; the groundwork was laid by the rook RJO on sunday evening... massive rook #'s with the help of their bishes had knits down to a thin green line of bases that were finally taken sometime in the wee hours (US) of monday morning.
Was on during the latter part of primetime. Most of my squadies had already logged off from disgust. I have a few decent screenshots of solid red dar bars and solid green dar bars... no two in the same sector. Rooks hadn't really started to push into knitland as of then. The Bish had quite a few of the knit's southern bases, however.
The map is set up to steamroll when people aren't paying attention... and be a stalemate when people aren't.
MiniD
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I disagree the bombers have no role in this map. They actually have a more effective role in medium to high alt field attacks. With a little planning it is pretty easy to line up a couple of airfields and with a single calibration drop things like Barracks,radars or VH's and RTB.
Granted I seldom bomb strategic targets, but when I have felt like bombing something there has been no shortage of tasks.
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Originally posted by beet1e
There are hundreds of bases on the pizza map, and it's not a problem for me there either. I commented on the number of pizza map bases at the time of its inception, and that at certain times of the day the number of bases exceeded the number of players. :lol My exact description was "a ridiculous looking map".
So I was expecting a departure from that kind of design, but instead, we have another map with layers and layers of unused bases.
Today's unused fighter base is today's deep-strike bomber base.
Its also a future front line base.
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It isn't a problem for you yet you go on about how it's "ridiculous looking" and that it wasn't what you were expecting.
Sounds to me like yer just stirrin the pot. :rolleyes:
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No AcID - my remark of "ridiculous looking" was made when Pizza was first introduced. It also turned out to be the map I like best. Reasons:
- Hi alt fighting - lets planes like P47 excel - and LA7 wheeze.
- Fields spaced adequately - much less suicide-pork-n-auger-rinse-n-repeat.
- Because of fields adequately spaced, less chance of someone you just killed killing you 2 mins later by coming in from the field next door. :rolleyes:
- Variety - I instantly loved those outer crust GV battles.
So even though it was ridiculous looking, it still had the ingredients for fun - though fun in this community is highly subjective. I don't expect you to agree with me.
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sounded like the comparison of folks online + the amount of bases made it look rediculous, I took that sentence the wrong way.
On the topic of "field spacing". Enough, too much, not enough, are all opinions. We all have our opinions. My opinion is that Pizza/Big Isles are too far apart and on FesterMA some are too close.
If it bothered me to the point it bothered Fester I'd probably create my own map too however, it doesn't. I live with it and make the best of it. We're all allowed to voice our opinions.
My opinion is if the guy I just killed comes back and is able to kill me, Good for him. God forbid he puts up a good fight. I'd rather be in a good fight and die if I've learned something than kill someone who wasn't paying attention.
Because the fields are further apart does not mean less pork-n-auger runs. I've seen it first hand on Pizza.
There might be variety on FesterMA. Maybe you'll see it, maybe not, either way I'd suggest staying away from the middle ya might git hurt ;)
Fun is highly subjective, you may enjoy mashed-potato-sculpting as an enjoyable past time, I assure you others may not. If your not having fun take a break man, or at least wait till Pizza's on.
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Originally posted by Rude
Beetle....
This map in no way prohibits you from your strat minded gameplay...it does allow for those of us who would like some action without having to fly a sector and a half to find it.
That clearly bothers you....and I'm not suprised you posted about it...I told several that you would whine.:)
As to you purple quote, every map is designed to promote a specific type of game play...balanced gameplay...you know, the kind where everyone might enjoy themselves
:rolleyes:
I can see your point - realism can go so far, in a game. Who wants to take 20 minutes to get to a destination? Good movies manage time compression quite convincingly ... so can games.
But I think the point that Beet1e is making is that vulchers are more catered for than are strategists. Each to his own, but you each pay your $15-a-month, and each hopes to get a certain amount of satisfaction out of it.
It would seem that the heart of the matter is the map. Fester's map seems generally well-received, and he has to be contratulated, I think. But isn't there scope for building on Fester's map, so that everyone gets something of what he wants?
Just my 2p's worth!
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Beet1e ... not to start a flame war here, but do you just like to read the text you post? Stir up some sheet? I mean really look, listen to what you spew.. never happy. Not to mention IF I see a post from Toad or a few others it is only a matter of time before you feel the need to chime in, why?
One can only hope that HT & or Scuzzy looks at what is posted & WHO posts what, and over time gets a feel for what is going on. Also pop into the game, hell IF this were my company I would be in Aces High heaven seeing ALL these PAYING customers having FUN. Say what you want but more than not flying tolerate some maps due to lack of choice. Here comes fester & "TADA" people are enjoying the game again.... well one can argue or a "FEW" will complain.
I think the reason that many complained about pizza or other maps is because they REALLY hated flying them. I know my time online during pizza was / is limited. I just find it hard to believe very many players would not like this map. I am not saying it would be ALL players FIRST choice. But rather ask this... IF we could only have one map what map would that be? Festers would get my vote .. and I think would be in the top two by others. Since we have a rotation of maps why start mucking up the BBS? Again not to offend any one flying here. If some of you feel that Festers map is unbalanced, boring, or worse than lets say .. pizza, then I apologize in advance. I just don't get it though. This map is really well done, & with "discussion" may even improve.
Thank you again Fester for a job well done.
Pirate
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Originally posted by LePaul
Muck
Can you imagine the whines if our bombers shut down the La7 plant :p
I agree the bombers dont have much of a role...with the GV spawns so close to cities, I was targetting VHs to halt the GV attacks on our front line base
they dont have any role at all...the only 2 that DONT carry the same amount of ordanace or less are the lancaster and the b17...and those are so slow its not even worth it...in fact the only bombers with any usable use are the ju88 ki67 and tbm...and thats only because they carry torpedos
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I am just here for the beads Jerry!
:rofl
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Pirate - I take your comments on board, but that's bit rich coming from you. You have only posted a handful of times, mostly to whine about the pizza map. And here you are, beating up on me about my comments on Fester's map, and I'm not even whining. If you want to see who is "stirring up sheet", look to the pizza map whiners. Oh wait - you are one of them.
How can you chastise me for "commenting" on a map, when others whine about pizza?
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I like pizza.
and beer too.
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Originally posted by vorticon
they dont have any role at all...the only 2 that DONT carry the same amount of ordanace or less are the lancaster and the b17...and those are so slow its not even worth it...in fact the only bombers with any usable use are the ju88 ki67 and tbm...and thats only because they carry torpedos
What an acute observation.
Any other pearls of wisdom you care to share based upon your personal Main Arena time of one hour, thirty-five minutes, and two seconds?
Heavy bomber squadrons in general have taken it in the freaking shorts for the last two years and have for the most part kept playing and kept quiet.
However-
It's one thing to endure the gameplay castration of heavy bombers and the incessant derogatory remarks from the play-my-way, boohoo a bomber killed my FH/VH/cv/shot me down/whatever subscribers in the Main Arena but such a comment concerning the role of heavy bombers in the Main Arena (and the gameplay/strat issues of a new MA map) from a H2H player is untenable.
look the word up if you have to
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Hmmm... you can have any kind of gameplay you want on this map but....
so can everyone else. that is the problem for the "poor gameplay" types... people aren't forced to play with them... players have the opportunity to play like anal strat dweebs.... they just don't...
It is like I have said many times... given opportunity people will have fun. Festabria gives opportunity... people are having fun.
The "no good gameplay" types are basicaly saying that they don't like the map because mommy isn't making people play with them.
Let's see.... they can go to the CT and organize "missuns" or they can make their own map or...
lazs
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^
|
Shack.
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shack ???
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"bullseye"
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<= completly confused now :confused:
bullseye == oeil de boeuf == http://images.google.com/images?q=oeil+de+boeuf&hl=fr&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&sa=N&tab=wi
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Originally posted by lazs2
Let's see.... they can go to the CT
Yep, as you pointed out before, that's a great choice when an unpopular map is up. A generic solution, which can apply to any MA map - depending on the individual player's point of view. :D
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Toad, i believe you mean... hypocrit.
"Play my way! Furball with me! Strat players ruining my fun! Whaaaaa!"
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Straffo,
Think "a precise hit in the exact dead center of the target".
Better?
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Toad, i believe you mean... hypocrit.
"Play my way! Furball with me! Strat players ruining my fun! Whaaaaa!"
Now, rutt, it is UNFAIR to lassie to call him a hypocrite. He has worked for YEARS to arrive at the exalted state of "deluded". Give the man credit for his efforts.
shubie
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Originally posted by lazs2
The "no good gameplay" types are basicaly saying that they don't like the map because mommy isn't making people play with them.
lazs
Obviously bears repeating.
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Originally posted by Toad
Straffo,
Think "a precise hit in the exact dead center of the target".
Better?
Better ? yes certainly :)
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Fester,
Thank you.:D
This map is the most fun Ive had playing AH. Also it constantly gives me dejavu's of AW.:)
I'm sorry some dont like it. It's helped me to appreciate driving GV, flying bombers, JABO with P38(Hate P38), and finaly fly ME109-G10.
This is a good all around fun map. Please make some more Fester.:D
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Originally posted by lazs2
Hmmm... you can have any kind of gameplay you want on this map but....
so can everyone else. that is the problem for the "poor gameplay" types... people aren't forced to play with them... players have the opportunity to play like anal strat dweebs.... they just don't...
It is like I have said many times... given opportunity people will have fun. Festabria gives opportunity... people are having fun.
The "no good gameplay" types are basicaly saying that they don't like the map because mommy isn't making people play with them.
Let's see.... they can go to the CT and organize "missuns" or they can make their own map or...
lazs
Wake up little Humpy...... Wake up little HUmpy, it`s time to go home. :D
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Hmm... seems the trio of dimness doesn't like being told to make their own map or go to the ct? but...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I played plenty on this map 2 nights ago, and had fun. I flew 109G6 most of the time. Hmmm, kept getting cherrypicked by Spit ix. It's only problem if lone wolfing. Maybe a guy sees me on radar, and comes up not from the field that I have flown to, but the one next door which is now only about 3 minutes away. I was afraid we might see that. One solution would be to go back to the G10 for survivability, but I didn't need to. Some more friendlies arrived, and the cherrypicking evaporated.
BTW diving down on a much lower con doesn't work well in a 109Gx. It will accelerate rapidly to the point where elevator authority is lost. I could show you how it's done, but that would involve two offensive four-letter F words: Film, and fact. But why bother. You seem happy enough in the land of makebelieve. :D (these comments addressed to no-one in particluar)
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You get cherrypickin on every map just learn to kill the guy(s) that are tryin to kill ya. *Gasp* oh no, that could be fun *Gasp* OH NO!!! we might learn something. ;)
uhhhh is it me or isn't 109 compression common knowledge?
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Originally posted by lazs2
Hmm... seems the trio of dimness doesn't like being told to make their own map or go to the ct? but...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
You, Toad and who else? :D
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Originally posted by AcId
You get cherrypickin on every map just learn to kill the guy(s) that are tryin to kill ya. *Gasp* oh no, that could be fun *Gasp* OH NO!!! we might learn something. ;)
uhhhh is it me or isn't 109 compression common knowledge?
I agree! The 109 compression is common knowledge amongst 109 pilots, but LA7 drivers might not know about it!
Cherrypicking - more of a problem the closer the fields are.
Learning something new? Absolutely. I sucked wind in 109s, and made a determined effort to learn them as best I could. I had help from some excellent mentors. :) Again, some folks miss out on that because they don't want to learn ACM (preferring to HO) and make a beeline for the easymode planes. Very sad. MuckMAW would agree with me. If only we COULD get some guys to try something new.:(
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Originally posted by beet1e
I played plenty on this map 2 nights ago, and had fun. I flew 109G6 most of the time. Hmmm, kept getting cherrypicked by Spit ix. It's only problem if lone wolfing. Maybe a guy sees me on radar, and comes up not from the field that I have flown to, but the one next door which is now only about 3 minutes away. I was afraid we might see that. One solution would be to go back to the G10 for survivability, but I didn't need to. Some more friendlies arrived, and the cherrypicking evaporated.
BTW diving down on a much lower con doesn't work well in a 109Gx. It will accelerate rapidly to the point where elevator authority is lost. I could show you how it's done, but that would involve two offensive four-letter F words: Film, and fact. But why bother. You seem happy enough in the land of makebelieve. :D (these comments addressed to no-one in particluar)
Beetle....
Your remarks regarding many different topics make perfect sense to you....the problem with that is you seem to have limited experience flying or carry a limited skillset with which to employ on any map.
You continually refer to the lonewolf status as being relevant to having fun or surviving in a particular plane....many here have no difficulty surviving in lesser rides than you chose to ride in if that is their goal.
I have a solution to your woes....join a squad...better yet, start one and join up only those of like mind and intent. I realize that would be difficult to do, but given enough time, you can do it I'm sure:)
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Rude, thank you for your advice. I must expand my flying experience still further. Perhaps I should start flying N1Ks and LA7s, and work on honing up HO technique.
As for surviving, a lot depends on working as a group.
I do have two squad invitations pending, but I need a squad that flies in Euro hours. And I was rather hoping for the AH2-TOD/Missun concept before making any decisions on that.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I played plenty on this map 2 nights ago, and had fun. I flew 109G6 most of the time. Hmmm, kept getting cherrypicked by Spit ix. It's only problem if lone wolfing. Maybe a guy sees me on radar, and comes up not from the field that I have flown to, but the one next door which is now only about 3 minutes away. I was afraid we might see that. One solution would be to go back to the G10 for survivability, but I didn't need to. Some more friendlies arrived, and the cherrypicking evaporated.
BTW diving down on a much lower con doesn't work well in a 109Gx. It will accelerate rapidly to the point where elevator authority is lost. I could show you how it's done, but that would involve two offensive four-letter F words: Film, and fact. But why bother. You seem happy enough in the land of makebelieve. :D (these comments addressed to no-one in particluar)
A 109 getting cherry-picked by a Spit IX ... thats a beautiful thing. This has got to be one of the all time funniest things that I have heard ... a 109 pilot getting picked and NOT liking it ... 109s and 190s are the BIGGEST cherry-pickers of them all.
If he was 3 mintues away and climbed to alt ABOVE your 109 (in a Spit), then you deserved to be picked and it has nothing to do with field proximity. Don't be afraid ... it only hurts for a second.
Why always this "lone wolfing" banter ? I lone wolf at least 95% or better of my time when I play, and for some reason, I really don't find it as a hinderance to getting plently of kills nor is it the reason why I get killed.
Diving down and getting weak elevator authority is common in all/most of these planes ... ya just gotta know how to dive and stay within the limits ... not very hard to do.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I played plenty on this map 2 nights ago, and had fun. I flew 109G6 most of the time. ... BTW diving down on a much lower con doesn't work well in a 109Gx. It will accelerate rapidly to the point where elevator authority is lost.
I had the same problem until GScholtz (I think it was) suggested using the trim keys to regain elevator control. I mapped the trim to one of the hat switches on my joystick (mine has 3 hat switches :D ). That reduced the problem I was having with compression-augers into the dirt.
Of the 109s, I usually fly the 109F4 if I want to turn-fight, or the 109G10 if I'm doing bomber interceptions and high-speed attacks. The other two are compilations of the two themes. I haven't quite figured out the difference in combat effectiveness of the G2 and G6. They seem about the same except for wing roundel insignia and weapon packages.
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gofaster - I choose my 109s in much the same way as you. The F4 can excel when your opponent just assumes that you're a G10! But the G6 is not as fast as the G10. One of my mentors, Urchin, advises that on many occasions, a G10 v Spit ix duel will end in stalemate. That's been my experience. I think it's fair to say that the Spit ix trumps a G6.