Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mrblack on October 06, 2003, 06:58:14 PM
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MERIDEN, Conn. - A woman was convicted Monday of contributing to the suicide of her 12-year-old son, who hanged himself in his closet with a necktie after being picked on for months at school over his bad breath and body odor.
AP Photo
Judith Scruggs, 52, was found guilty of one count of risk of injury to a minor for creating a filthy home that prosecutors said prevented J. Daniel Scruggs from improving his hygiene. She faces up to 10 years in prison when she is sentenced next month.
The six-member jury cleared Scruggs of a second charge that accused her of failing to provide her son with proper medical and psychological care. She also was acquitted on a cruelty charge.
Legal experts said the case may mark the first time a parent has been convicted of contributing to a child's suicide.
Prosecutors said they took no joy in bringing charges against a grieving mother, but felt a jury should decide whether Scruggs' actions contributed to the boy's death.
"There are those who may disagree, but it is our position that parents are responsible for the care and welfare of their children and must ensure their basic medical, emotional and psychological needs are satisfied," prosecutor James Dinnan said.
Scruggs refused to comment as she left the courthouse. Defense attorney Reese Norris called the verdict an injustice.
"I hope the public will have an outcry that someone could be could be convicted of any charge ... in association with the suicide of her child," he said.
Judith Scruggs acknowledged Daniel would sometimes have body odor or bad breath and would soil himself to get out of going to school. She said she frequently told Daniel to take showers, but said she could not force him to do so.
Scruggs told police Daniel was afraid of bullies who had kicked and punched him, and he kept knives in his closet out of fear before killing himself in January 2002.
Prosecutors presented evidence that showed there was barely room to move around her home because of clothes, boxes, papers and other debris that littered the floor. The kitchen was full of dirty dishes and spills and stains. The bathroom floor and the bathtub were covered with clothes, and the toilet, sink and tub were soiled.
Prosecution witnesses also described a foul odor. To get an idea what it was like, one officer suggested sticking your head in a hamper full of dirty clothes and whiffing garbage at the same time.
"I definitely didn't think she did enough. You just don't let things go," juror Vinny Giardina told The Associated Press after the verdict.
Norris said prosecutors never provided evidence linking the condition of the home to the suicide. He portrayed Judith Scruggs as a loving single mother who worked two jobs — one full-time as a teacher's aide in Daniel's school and the other part-time at a Wal-Mart.
Norris had called the boy's death a case "Bullycide." The suicide spawned a Connecticut law mandating schools to report bullies to authorities.
Geez I dont know bout this one.
Maybe she was a fat slob but this is going to far I think.
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pretty stupid...
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She needs to be convicted. It was actually her fault.
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Isnt it punishment enough that her son is dead?
Send her to jail for reform... to teach her a "lesson"... then release after 10 years.
Seems they're jailing the wrong person...
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"Isn't it enough that her son is dead?"
Question, can that argument be used when a parent leaves a baby in a hot car and it dies? Can it be used when a parent leaves a loaded gun out on the table and the kid shoots themselves? How far, exactly, does it go?
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No, it cant. :)
In this particular case I feel it suits.
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Careless parents like this one should be jailed already sooner, without the need for someone to commit a suicide.
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They should also sue his teachers for not letting the child care system know about this or if they did know then sue them too.
It's pretty obvious woman is mentally sick and wasn't able to take care of his child.
I'm pretty sure you have a child care system in US too and for me it looks like it didn't work like it should.
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Originally posted by Octavius
Isnt it punishment enough that her son is dead?
That's like not punishing a murderer because the victim is already dead and gone.
:rolleyes:
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LePaul: That's like not punishing a murderer because the victim is already dead and gone.
Not exactly. A murderer needs to be deterred from victimising more people.
A sloppy mom cannot possibly be dangerous to any children but her own.
So you have only revenge considerations of justice here, not compensation or deterrence.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Not exactly. A murderer needs to be deterred from victimising more people.
A sloppy mom cannot possibly be dangerous to any children but her own.
So you have only revenge considerations of justice here, not compensation or deterrence.
Are you saying that convicting someone of a crime is only meant to be a deterance, and not a form of punishment?
What if Daniel wasn't her only child?
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Let's see... a single mother working two jobs with a messy house...
...and this is somehow a criminal act.
:rolleyes:
IMHO, the DA has done nothing more than take a bad situation and make it worse.
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So... losing something that you've been neglecting for years is supposed to be punishment enough?
I'm sorry, but that does not make sense.
MiniD
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Mickey1992: Are you saying that convicting someone of a crime is only meant to be a deterance, and not a form of punishment?
You are not using the words in their correct meanings. Convicted person is sentenced to some punishment.
The intents/parts of a punishment are:
1. deterrence - scaring this and other persons from acting undesirably;
2 prevention - while a person is locked-up he/she cannot commit crime;
3. vengeance - make victims/relatives feel better;
4. restitution - attempt to make victim/society whole (hard labor, monetary compensation);
5. correction - changing the character of a criminal;
6. example - deterring others from similar acts;
There are probably few more and more scientific terms for them and the prevailing dogmas of the society may choose not to include some of them, like vengeance.
Anyway,
Octavius said: Isnt it punishment enough that her son is dead?
And LePaul said: That's like not punishing a murderer because the victim is already dead and gone.
Meaning that not punishing a neglecting mother would be like not punishing a "conventional" murderer and implying that punisment of the mother calls for the same considerations as punishing a more common murderer.
I was pointing out that it is not necessarily the case. Different people have different wishes towards punisments and consider different aspects of it more important.
So in this case deterrence can hardly be improved upon, prevention is inapliccable, vengeance is the most dubious aspect, especially if complete outsiders like Mini D demand to enjoy it, restitution is due to no one, correction is questionable and example is already made to other mothers - you neglect a child, you lose it, a few months of prison is a minor threat in comparison.
I view a loss of a child as the worst punisnment that could happen to her - even if she was really guilty in his death, which is a very far-fetched accusation.
A boy of 12 teased about a body odor and smelly mouth can bathe himself and brush his teeth even if the appartment is sloppy. I came from a country where meny people did not have running water and indoor plumbing and smelly children were not killing themselves in droves.
One must be an idiot to believe that if the boy showed up one day all clean and fresh-smelling, the bullies would have stopped mistreating him....
More likely the boy was mentally disturbed which caused both his neglect toward himself and his suicide. Children - even from caring wealthy, seemingly happy families - kill themselves all the time.
It's just our liberal culture that cannot admit that there could really be something wrong with the victim and has to find another person to put the blame on.
miko
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Could not be more agree :
"There are those who may disagree, but it is our position that parents are responsible for the care and welfare of their children and must ensure their basic medical, emotional and psychological needs are satisfied," prosecutor James Dinnan said.
Seen ****ty parents dong lousy jobs on their childs and they cannot get away with it.
A few, and just a few parents either have mental or drug/alcohol problems and thats how this things happens.
Seen it before and prolly will see it again, its a tragedy beyond belive :(
edit: dont know this case too good but it stinks, they shoulda done a better job i guess.
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Originally posted by Mini D
So... losing something that you've been neglecting for years is supposed to be punishment enough?
I'm sorry, but that does not make sense.
MiniD
That small blurb does not specify the mother's reaction to her son's death. I'm assuming she *just might* be human and actually grieves at the loss of her son.
or maybe she was expecting it and has no remorse.
Jail is too much. Reform? A few basic lessons in child care and regular hygeine would help. Nah, on second thought she'd do fine in prison. If the stench is really that bad, no bitch will be made of her.
Lepaul: I dont see a murderer. Why dont we trace it back a little further? Throw her in jail because she HAD the kid. Afterall, it's her fault he killed himself for having him in the first place!
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Miko !!!!!
A boy of 12 teased about a body odor and smelly mouth can bathe himself and brush his teeth even if the appartment is sloppy. I came from a country where meny people did not have running water and indoor plumbing and smelly children were not killing themselves in droves.
One must be an idiot to believe that if the boy showed up one day all clean and fresh-smelling, the bullies would have stopped mistreating him....
More likely the boy was mentally disturbed which caused both his neglect toward himself and his suicide. Children - even from caring wealthy, seemingly happy families - kill themselves all the time.
It's just our liberal culture that cannot admit that there could really be something wrong with the victim and has to find another person to put the blame on.
miko
You must be way outa line here a 12 year old boy is not born menatlly disturbed, they are getting it buy living a terrible life.
you cant make simularities about a society with no water and no health care with the us system its just to silly.
Ofcourse the boy woulda been washed and had brushed his teeths if the parents was awake. For Christ sake you are to hard here..
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Originally posted by miko2d
You are not using the words in their correct meanings. Convicted person is sentenced to some punishment.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
You said that, "A sloppy mom cannot possibly be dangerous to any children but her own.", and suggested that punshing her was simply revenge. Do you really think that way? That was my question.
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Originally posted by davidpt40
She needs to be convicted. It was actually her fault.
Actually, I would suspect that the son, and the mother, and probably the rest of their family, suffered from some form of mental illness. She needs to be treated rather than incarcerated.
Yes, it was her fault that she didn't bath him when he was younger and teach him basic personal hygiene. I would suspect that he didn't have many friends (nobody wants to love a stinky kid I guess) and therefore didn't develop the skills necessary to be normal in a civilized society. But I'm not certain that incarceration is the answer, other than forcing her to learn all about delousing.
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Mickey1992: You said that, "A sloppy mom cannot possibly be dangerous to any children but her own.", and suggested that punshing her was simply revenge. Do you really think that way? That was my question.
I am not sure what your question refers to, so I'll answer both meanings I can think of.
Is she guilty according to laws currently in effect? Probably. Which does not have anything to do with morality of our actions or thoughts. Morality implies a freedom of will and if a law is enforced on me, what I think and feel does not matter, I have to abide by it.
If you ask me whether the law aught to be such that she must be punished for her (in)action, I say no. Not because I condone her actions but because I do not see any non-opressive system of government under which such law could exist.
In a free society possibility of such punishment on her would violate people's natural rights and constitute oppression, while her actions are immoral but do not violate anyone's rights (except maybe those of the father of the child).
It would take a few paragraphs of philosophical reasoning just to outline the basis for my view. I would rather not do it unless you are really interested. If you are, we can start another thread and I'll be happy to oblige.
It's a serious philosophical issue, concerning the nature of rights, liberty and just laws.
miko
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Originally posted by Octavius
That small blurb does not specify the mother's reaction to her son's death. I'm assuming she *just might* be human and actually grieves at the loss of her son.
Oh... I don't doubt she grieves for the loss of her son. I also don't doubt that she firmly believes everyone else is to blame for it.
This is why the charges were neglect and not manslaughter. Wash she neglecting caring for this child for 12 years? I mean really... can you honestly say she wasn't? There should be no penalty for that other than a class?Jail is too much. Reform? A few basic lessons in child care and regular hygeine would help. Nah, on second thought she'd do fine in prison. If the stench is really that bad, no bitch will be made of her.
Yes... at 52 she should be counseled just in case she has another child and does it again.
I'm sorry, but that kind of neglect is not something you ask someone not to do again then send on their merry way.
MiniD