Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BB Gun on October 08, 2003, 05:43:15 PM

Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: BB Gun on October 08, 2003, 05:43:15 PM
TONY SNOW: Joining us to determine what the Kay report does and does not say is David Kay (search), the CIA special adviser on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs and head of the Iraqi Survey Group.

Mr. Kay, welcome.

DAVID KAY, CHIEF IRAQ WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Happy to be with you, Tony.

SNOW: Let's take a quick look at some of the headlines from this week characterizing your report. I want to get your reaction to them.

Here we see The New York Times: "No Illicit Arms." The Washington Post: "No Banned Weapons." The Los Angeles Times: "No Illicit Iraqi Arms." USA Today: "No Illegal Weapons."

Is that what you found?

KAY: Well, we certainly found that — have not yet found illicit arms. But that's not the only thing the report says. In fact, I'm sort of amazed at what was powerful information about both their intent and their actual activities that were not known and were hidden from U.N. inspectors seems not to have made it to the press. This is information that, had it been available last year, would have been headline news. (emphasis added - BB)

SNOW: One of the things that you found, for instance, is the Mukhabarat, the secret service, in fact had a vigorous weapons program of its own. Tell us about it.

KAY: Well, we have found right now — and we're still finding them — over two dozen laboratories that were hidden in the Iraqi intelligence service, the Mukhabarat, were not declared to the U.N., had prohibited equipment, and carried on activities that should have been declared.

Now, at the minimum, they kept alive Iraq's capability to produce both biological and chemical weapons. We found assassination tools. So we know that, in fact, they had a prohibited intent to them.

SNOW: You also talk about reference strains of biological agents. What does that mean?

KAY: Well, that's one of the most fascinating stories. An Iraqi scientist in 1993 hid in his own refrigerator reference strains for — active strains, actually would've — were still active when we found them — Botulinum toxin, one of the most toxic elements known.

 
 
He was also asked to hide others, including anthrax. After a couple of days, he turned them back because he said they were too dangerous; he had small children in the house.

This is typical. We now have three cases in which scientists have come forward with equipment, technology, diagrams, documents and, in this case, actual weapons material, reference strains and Botulinum toxin, that they were told to hide and that the U.N. didn't find.

SNOW: You believe that there are similar strains perhaps throughout Iraq right now?

KAY: We're actively searching for at least one more cache of weapons — of strains that we know exists.

SNOW: This is a cache that had been referred to by a scientist. The first bit of information paid off; you're still looking for the second one?

KAY: Exactly.

SNOW: And the second one is a large cache.

KAY: It's much larger. It contains anthrax, and that's one reason we're actively interested in getting it.

read it all here..... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99043,00.html

BB
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 05:47:53 PM
A weapons program is not an imminent threat capable of striking in 45 minutes.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Gloves on October 08, 2003, 06:02:16 PM
Hmm, let's see here....

Lawnchair - check
Keg of beer - check
Beach umbrella - check

Looks like this will be a fun one to watch.  :)
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Udie on October 08, 2003, 06:41:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
A weapons program is not an imminent threat capable of striking in 45 minutes.



a scud is.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 06:50:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Udie
a scud is.


And the scud can be found where?
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Gadfly on October 08, 2003, 07:05:22 PM
150 miles left of the Mig that was buried, also buried.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 07:08:02 PM
...and a buried scud threatens whom exactly?
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Gadfly on October 08, 2003, 07:13:15 PM
Someone with their head buried in the sand as well, Sandy, Dear.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Udie on October 08, 2003, 07:15:27 PM
I'm not privy to Bush's intel so I have no idea where they were, if they had any or if they were burried.  I do however have a pretty sharp long term memory and I difinitely can remember him raining a bunch of those things down on Isreal back in 91.  I also don't remember Bush saying the imminent danger was only to the US.  I'm pretty sure he stressed our allie Isreal too, though I will admit I may be wrong about this and I'm too lazy right now to go look it up.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 07:23:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gadfly
Someone with their head buried in the sand as well, Sandy, Dear.


I see just fine... there's no chimera in the sand. :p
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Holden McGroin on October 08, 2003, 07:39:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
...and a buried scud threatens whom exactly?


C.H.U.D.s are threathened, and they are part of the coalition of the willing.

Did 1441 mention the word imminent?

I haven't heard any one mention "Material Breach" in quite a while... when did that become a non issue?
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 07:41:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
C.H.U.D.s are threathened, and they are part of the coalition of the willing.

Did 1441 mention the word imminent?

I haven't heard any one mention "Material Breach" in quite a while... when did that become a non issue?



1441 doesn't authorize invasion.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Holden McGroin on October 08, 2003, 07:43:29 PM
It didn't it mention consequences?

That's diplospeak for "or I'll kick your ass"
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Kieran on October 08, 2003, 07:53:18 PM
Sandman, "UN Security Council" is an oxymoron. France ended any hope the SC would be able to enforce 1441. No use following the law if everyone else isn't. Iraq was able to break the law for 12 years, no biggie.

Take your "UN Ball" and go home. Get US out.
Title: C.H.U.D.
Post by: Udie on October 08, 2003, 07:56:32 PM
I forgot about that movie :D
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 07:59:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
It didn't it mention consequences?
 



No. It does not.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: FUNKED1 on October 08, 2003, 08:00:03 PM
Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers :D
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 08:06:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Sandman, "UN Security Council" is an oxymoron. France ended any hope the SC would be able to enforce 1441. No use following the law if everyone else isn't. Iraq was able to break the law for 12 years, no biggie.

Take your "UN Ball" and go home. Get US out.



I didn't play the UN card. I simply responded to it. Rework of the SC is something Annan has been asking for years. Certainly, the SC has some serious flaws that need to be addressed, but France acted within the constraints of the system. The U.S. chose to circumvent it.

Get US out... that's laughable. We created the UN.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Holden McGroin on October 08, 2003, 08:12:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
No. It does not.


You're correct.  It says "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations."

A synonomous diplospeak phrase, basically saying "or else".
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 08:13:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You're correct.  It says "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations."

A synonomous diplospeak phrase, basically saying "or else".



If 1441 had sufficient teeth, the U.S. would not have submitted a draft resolution for the disarmament of Iraq... don'tcha think?
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Kieran on October 08, 2003, 08:36:20 PM
It's not laughable at all. We should do it. Now. We change our minds. We quit. Cya. So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 08:47:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
It's not laughable at all. We should do it. Now. We change our minds. We quit. Cya. So long, and thanks for all the fish.



I totally disagree. While the U.S. doesn't really need U.N. permission to do anything, having U.N. sanction is better than going alone. Perfect example would be Gulf War I.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Kieran on October 08, 2003, 08:54:49 PM
Yeah, those sanctions work wonders... SH was suffering like nobody's business. Yessir, good thing the UN stepped in to handle THAT mess.

And the Congo.

And Liberia.

And...
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 09:03:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Yeah, those sanctions work wonders... SH was suffering like nobody's business. Yessir, good thing the UN stepped in to handle THAT mess.

And the Congo.

And Liberia.

And...


Wrong definition...
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Gunslinger on October 08, 2003, 09:54:39 PM
Man i get tired of saying this....

If you librals like sadam sooooooo much...fly him over here make him a member of your party and greet him with open arms since EVERYONE knows he was such a CAREING humanitariion and a great contribution to planet earth
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 10:02:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Man i get tired of saying this....

If you librals like sadam sooooooo much...fly him over here make him a member of your party and greet him with open arms since EVERYONE knows he was such a CAREING humanitariion and a great contribution to planet earth



Non sequitur. We're tired of it too.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Kieran on October 08, 2003, 10:04:49 PM
UN sanctions don't work. Too many corrupt members willing to make secret deals. Get US out.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Gunslinger on October 08, 2003, 10:04:50 PM
if your tired of it let it be than...sadam had the means to produce the weapons.....and were there's smoke there's fire
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 10:24:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
UN sanctions don't work. Too many corrupt members willing to make secret deals. Get US out.


I meant #1, or 4c... I think you're talking #5.

Main Entry: 1sanc·tion
Pronunciation: 'sa[ng](k)-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin sanction-, sanctio, from sancire to make holy -- more at SACRED
Date: 15th century
1 : a formal decree; especially : an ecclesiastical decree
2 a obsolete : a solemn agreement : OATH b : something that makes an oath binding
3 : the detriment, loss of reward, or coercive intervention annexed to a violation of a law as a means of enforcing the law
4 a : a consideration, principle, or influence (as of conscience) that impels to moral action or determines moral judgment b : a mechanism of social control for enforcing a society's standards c : explicit or official approval, permission, or ratification : APPROBATION
5 : an economic or military coercive measure adopted usually by several nations in concert for forcing a nation violating international law to desist or yield to adjudication .
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 08, 2003, 10:26:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
if your tired of it let it be than...sadam had the means to produce the weapons.....and were there's smoke there's fire



What weapons? You mean the ones we can't find? I'm sorry, but I don't consider a "weapons program" to be an imminent threat.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Kieran on October 08, 2003, 10:29:17 PM
They....don't.....work.....

Whether you are merely saying "Bad Boy! Baaaad BOY!", or you are enacting economic penalties, they....don't....work.

There's money to be made cheating.

Briar Rabbit was quoted as saying, "Lawd, not the sanctions! Don't use the sanctions! ANYthing but the SANCTIONS!"

Or something like that.
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: BB Gun on October 09, 2003, 12:10:09 AM
Quote
What weapons? You mean the ones we can't find?


Its a little bit early.... you wanna go help?

Quote
KAY: We've identified 130 ammunition storage points of significant size, some larger than 50 square kilometers. These are sites that contain, the best estimate is, between 600,000 and 650,000 tons of arms. That's about one-third of the entire ammunitions stockpile of the much-larger U.S. military. (emphasis added - BB)

SNOW: So that's pretty astonishing for a country of that size and population.

KAY: It's very astonishing when you're on the ground looking at it.

SNOW: You've only been through 10 of those so far. Why so few depots have been examined at this point?

KAY: Well, it's a size issue and going out. For example, we spent 10 days on a very large one about three weeks ago, operating in temperatures that range from 130 — that was a low day — to 150. And literally, you have to go — this one was over 200 square miles. It's damning, in terms of the scale, to have to do that.

SNOW: So you have still 120 of these to examine?

KAY: And we have 26 on a critical list to examine. That's really the number that drives us right now.


You can start crowing when they're done.

Right now, I'm satisified.  Iraq in violation.  Iraq continuing the threads of various proscribed weapons programs.  Iraq leadership perverting the oil for food program to become oil for weapons and palaces programs.

BB
Title: Media Bias revisited re: WMD...
Post by: Sandman on October 09, 2003, 12:13:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BB Gun
Its a little bit early.... you wanna go help?

BB



It's a little late, IMHO... and I've already served thank you very much.