Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Widewing on October 10, 2003, 12:44:11 AM
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Over the past month (covering portions of two tours) I have been flying the A-20G quite a bit as a fighter-bomber. I have enjoyed quite a few sorties where I engaged in combat with all kinds of fighters, from 18k, right down to the deck.
I have been impressed with its maneuverability, being able to out-turn a considerable portion of the fighters encountered. Its performance in the role of fighter has surprised many enemies, with an Me 262, P-51s, 190s, La-7s, Spitfires, N1K2s and other types falling victim to a bomber they perceived as an easy kill.
I took a few minutes and examined wing loading and power loading and you may find the result interesting. I used weights and wing areas published in various books and documents, not usually the HTC figures which are only described as "normal combat weight", and therefore are, at best very general.
I shall be begin with the lowest wing loading thru the highest in those I calculated for. I used the fuel load I normally fly with, such as 50% for the P-51B and D and A6M5, 75% for 190s, 109s, P-47, P-38 and FM-2. I used 100% for Soviet fighters (short range means taking as much as possible more often that not). I used 25% for the A-20G as that is more than enough to fly two sectors and fight for 10 minutes (yes, the A-20 will fly as far on 25% as the La-7 will on 100%).
A6M5b: 23.9 pounds per square foot.
FM-2: 27.7
Spit Mk.IX: 32.8
P-51B: 37.3
La-7: 37.5
Yak-9U: 37.7
P-51D: 38.1
F4U-1D: 38.8
Bf 109G-6: 39.4
Bf 109G-10: 40.0
A-20G: 41.8
Bf 110G-2: 42.0
Fw 190A-5: 43.2
P-38L: 44.0
P-47D-25: 46.2
Fw 190D-9 46.8
Fw 190A-8 48.3
Power loadings for same weights are as follows:
Bf 109G-10: 3.86 lbs/hp
P-38L: 4.11
Fw 190D-9: 4.11
La-7: 4.24
Yak-9U: 4.27
Bf 109G-6: 4.52
Bf 110G-2: 4.64
A6M5b: 5.01
Fw 190A-5: 5.02
Spitfire Mk.IX: 5.11
FM-2: 5.34
P-51D: 5.58
P-51B: 5.67
Fw 190A-8: 5.72
F4U-1D: 5.80
P-47D-25: 6.02
A-20G: 6.07
My regards,
Widewing
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Very interesting read Widewing. I've always jokenly call the A-20 a twin engine Jug. It's quite a shot to show someone up in the A-20 thats in a fighter. I even killed a 38 once that had alt over me.
Only issue I have is the wing loading of the A-20. I do tend to snap the wings guess I'm use to my jug :D
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Yeah, I discovered the A-20 a few months ago in the CT. Under the right conditions, she can definitely hold her own against any of the early-mid war fighters.
Two things I try to remember: Keep the speed DOWN (fi it gets beyond about 375, the ailerons come off) and make turns nose low. She is NOT very good in the vertical.
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Originally posted by Widewing
A6M5b: 23.9 pounds per square foot.
FM-2: 27.7
Spit Mk.IX: 32.8
P-51B: 37.3
La-7: 37.5
Yak-9U: 37.7
P-51D: 38.1
F4U-1D: 38.8
Bf 109G-6: 39.4
Bf 109G-10: 40.0
A-20G: 41.8
Bf 110G-2: 42.0
Fw 190A-5: 43.2
P-38L: 44.0
P-47D-25: 46.2
Fw 190D-9 46.8
Fw 190A-8 48.3
Power loadings for same weights are as follows:
Bf 109G-10: 3.86 lbs/hp
P-38L: 4.11
Fw 190D-9: 4.11
La-7: 4.24
Yak-9U: 4.27
Bf 109G-6: 4.52
Bf 110G-2: 4.64
A6M5b: 5.01
Fw 190A-5: 5.02
Spitfire Mk.IX: 5.11
FM-2: 5.34
P-51D: 5.58
P-51B: 5.67
Fw 190A-8: 5.72
F4U-1D: 5.80
P-47D-25: 6.02
A-20G: 6.07
My regards,
Widewing
Widewing can you pls check the Ta-152 wing loading. That plane is flying like a fully loaded jug at low alt. I know, is a high alt fighter and is the king over 27k, but it's maneuverability at low alt is strange to me.
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WW,
I think some of your loading weights are off.
I have never understood why some of the twin engine bombers and fighter bombers in AH turn so well.
The A-20G might be an exception but most if not all have horrible wing loading and power to weight ratio's. Also do you know what the flight restrictions are on the A20? What is the max G limit?
Roll rate is the best way to defeat a fighter bomber in a dogfight. I try to scissor while while chopping throttle and then either spit S or loop. Either that or dive to high speed and force an overshoot with rolling maneuvers.
I really enjoy the dueling aspect of AH. I would luv to try a duel between a Mossie and A-20 or BF110. Would make a nice scenario too.
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The TA-152 is a very interested A/C that may be not so much porked but underutilized in AH, but I frankly haven't tested it to be sure.
When you fly it however you must remember that it has the best range without external tanks of any AH fighter. So unless your going cross country never take more then 50% fuel and in most cases 25%. It handles pretty well at that weight.
Also it has a great aspect ratio with it's wide wingspan that helps it in turns despite high wing loading. Unlike the P-38 it has no nacelles in the wings ruining airflow so it enjoys the full benifit of it's prodgious wings. The biggest problem with this A/C is the Kill me perk tag that draws so much attention. I think without that it could be one of the best in the game.
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F4UDOA,
Do not quote me on this but I think it was 4 g's for the A-20 & A-26.
I know during the Korean war its bigger sister the A-26 was limited to 3 g's due to wing failures at the wingspar due to excessive diving and pulling out from the target area.
I think even the A-20 suffered from this problem as well.
I'll see if I can better info tonight.. unless Widewing has the info right handy
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Acording to zenos warbirds airforce film our a20 is not correctly modeled. Acording to the training film it is not a fully aerobatic aircraft. With major bank and dive angle limits. I watched the film a while ago but as I recall it said exceed these limits and the wings are going bye bye period. Having never flown one or any aircraft for that matter what do I know. I would tend to believe army training films tho.
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Hey Ice if you come to the Mini-Con you can ask an A-20G combat vet about it in person. :D
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Originally posted by icemaw
Acording to zenos warbirds airforce film our a20 is not correctly modeled. Acording to the training film it is not a fully aerobatic aircraft. With major bank and dive angle limits. I watched the film a while ago but as I recall it said exceed these limits and the wings are going bye bye period. Having never flown one or any aircraft for that matter what do I know. I would tend to believe army training films tho.
Of course the C-47 isn't fully aerobatic in reality either. Doesn't seem to stop C-47 drivers :).
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Cant argue with you there nobaddy.
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
WW,
I think some of your loading weights are off.
I have never understood why some of the twin engine bombers and fighter bombers in AH turn so well.
The A-20G might be an exception but most if not all have horrible wing loading and power to weight ratio's. Also do you know what the flight restrictions are on the A20? What is the max G limit?
Roll rate is the best way to defeat a fighter bomber in a dogfight. I try to scissor while while chopping throttle and then either spit S or loop. Either that or dive to high speed and force an overshoot with rolling maneuvers.
I really enjoy the dueling aspect of AH. I would luv to try a duel between a Mossie and A-20 or BF110. Would make a nice scenario too.
As I said, weights are from various published sources. Calculating fuel weight is easy enough, if you use 50% of max. internal fuel, you simply multiply the number of gallons by 6 pounds. Subtract that from max. weight less under wing (or in bomb bay) ordnance.
Realize that this is takeoff weight, not the weight the aircraft enters combat with, so this is a mitigating factor not easily accounted for.
During WWII, the A-20/Boston proved very able to defend itself, with one A-20G-30-DO pilot getting credit for shooting down 4 Japanese aircraft (one Ki-84, one Ki-43, one G4M2 Betty and a Ki-30 light bomber/observation aircraft).
When fighting an aggessive A-20G, DON'T try to force it to overshoot. Havocs bleed E like mad with little effort. last week, I bounced a pair of F4U-1Ds at 17k. They ignored me as I was on a reciprical heading about 3k above them. What they didn't realize, but soon discovered was that I was flying high CAP south of our field (A41 on Fester's wonderful map). Pulling power to idle and using the rudder as a suedo airbrake, I dived below them. At full throttle, I rocketed up from underneath, obliterating one Corsair. Zooming up, I rolled inverted and started down after the second fighter, who was desperately dumping ordnance and pickling off rockets. Seeing my Havoc boring in on his tail, the F4U pilot rolled right, turned about 90 degrees and then reversed his turn. That was where he died. Seeing him roll right, I pulled nose high, added a big boot full of rudder while rolling inverted. His attempt to scissor came to instant grief. There's nothing I appreciate more than an enemy who thinks scissoring will accomplish anything. That's one of the easiest defensive maneuvers to counter, even when flying a twin-engine bomber (the A-20 has an enormous rudder, and combined with full aileron deflection, the big Havoc rolls much faster than anyone would ever expect).
Just last night, I fought a one on one with a Yak-9T beginning at 10k. He was trying to cherry pick a smoking P-47 being nursed home at about 6k. As the Yak driver angled in for a gun run, I met him halfway, running in hot from his left side. He broke towards me, pushing his nose down. I high yo-yo'd left and caught him with a snapshot that took off his left aileron. Going vertical, the Yak tried to shake me in a climb. My greater E convinced him that this wouldn't work and he pulled thru into a loop. Again, I followed in a lag pursuit around thru yet another loop. I pulled enough lead and obtained some strikes. On the way down, he rolled right entering a spiral dive. My next burst demolished the Yak. As with the F4Us, this guy failed to anticipate the threat until he was engaged.
As for Split-S'ing away from the A-20, you had better have a lot of separation prior, because the A-20 accelerates like a demon in a dive (just don't take it past 425 mph with any loading on the airframe). Yesterday, I was jousting with Yucca's Hurricane IIC and surprised him by attacking from a split-S, getting a good piece of the Hurri with a snapshot. Some cannon bird caught him before I could complete my chandelle reverse and I had to settle for an assist. Yucca had a good laugh at the strange sight of seeing a bomber maneuvering in the vertical hard after one of the best turn fighters in the game. Let's face it, that's something you don't see every day. Therein lies one great advantage; still being surprised even when you see the enemy by allowing a seemingly innocuous aircraft to gain a position of tactical advantage.
I also like flying the SBD as a fighter. Its maneuverability is such that it can hang with almost any fighter but the Zero. What it lacks is straight-line speed. On the other hand, the A-20G is faster (at about 345 mph) at and below 5k than a considerable number of the fighters in the game. I have chased down Hellcats and N1K2s with it. When flying with less than 25% fuel load, the A-20G climbs well too.
I expect that the A-20 is a very close match for the Bf 110G-2 and Mossy in terms of agility. However, both of those can escape in a prolonged dive. Yet, the A-20G has the huge advantage of being able to be flown from the F3 position, with its unlimited visibility. Fly with a gunner and the A-20G is even more dangerous.
I did some digging into the design and operational G limits built into the A-20G. Max. operational G is limited to 5g positive, 2.5g negative, with minimum design stress rated at 7g (absolute failure was partially determined by airframe fatigue as well as total load carried, but Douglas estimated 7.5g to actually cause structural failure on a factory-fresh A-20G). Remember, these are steady state loads, not peaks of short duration. It takes time for metal to yield. Nonetheless, more than a few A-20s came home with wrinkled skin and with gaps between panels. Earlier A-20s were not rated this high. Douglas strengthened the wings and tail of the A-20G in order to add racks for up to 2,000 pounds of bombs under the wings. Heavier gauge aluminum skin was employed on the vertical tail surfaces. War Weary aircraft would not likely survive prolonged exposure to even 5g and were typically placcarded for 3g maximum. Aircraft having suffered battle damage were also susceptable to structural failure should they be horsed around hard before repair. But, that's true for any combat aircraft.
Flying with just 25% fuel, no bombs but fully armed guns, the A-20G weighed in above 19,000 lbs. With 465 square feet of wing, its wing loading is very low for a twin-engine bomber. It was powered by a pair of Wright R-2600 engines rated at 1,600 hp each at takeoff (up to 1,750 hp overboosted with water injection).
Compare that to a P-38L with full internal fuel weighing in at 17,800 pounds and two Allison V-1710 engines rated at 1,600 hp (often tuned to Allisons rating of 1,725 hp) at takeoff, but just 327 square feet of wing. I refer to the A-20G as the P-38's fat, ugly sister. :D
My regards,
Widewing
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No kidding.
:D
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It's best quality is twin .50s in the upper turret. If you are in trouble, just pull vertical and hit shift+x and kill the unsuspecting dweeb.
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It's best quality?? Like to see you pull that move off. Pretty sure I would take your wing off before you even made it to the turret. :-)
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~
Originally posted by mora
It's best quality is twin .50s in the upper turret. If you are in trouble, just pull vertical and hit shift+x and kill the unsuspecting dweeb.
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Widewing,
The weights and didn't go through and check myself. I just looked at the wing and power loading of the F4U in your initial post. The total weight of fuel in the F4U-1D is 237Gallons 1422LBS. The loaded weight is 100% at 12,175lbs and 11,464lbs with 50% fuel. Wing loading = 36.5 and power loading is 5.09. I didn't run down the others but they are close enough.
As far as a scissors goes I think it would work great against an A-20 especially at 300MPH to 400MPH.
At those speeds if I am in an F4U I can roll 45 degrees and pull max G and then reverse course in less time than it would take the A-20 to roll 45 degrees. The F4U also bleeds E in turns like mad so my first shot would be very long after the first scissor.
Would luv to try it in the DA :)
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Originally posted by Widewing
Over the past month (covering portions of two tours) I have been flying the A-20G quite a bit as a fighter-bomber. I have enjoyed quite a few sorties where I engaged in combat with all kinds of fighters, from 18k, right down to the deck.
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Personally I love the A20G: Next to the P-38L its the 1 aircraft i've flown that has taken a beating and kept me comming home.
As for history on it: It was designed with a secondary capability as being a night fighter - but since the P-61 was awarded the role, it was never utilized as such.
I have nothing but respect for A20 pilots.
Best,
The Wolf
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Originally posted by Gixer
It's best quality?? Like to see you pull that move off. Pretty sure I would take your wing off before you even made it to the turret. :-)
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~
Gixer, I completely agree. Anyone flying the A-20 is better off forgetting that there is a dorsal turret and concentrate on out-flying the enemy.
The A-20 is all about careful energy management. Level acceleration is relatively poor, so you need to conserve speed. On the other hand, dive acceleration is tremendous, so you need to carefully manage high-speeds or you risk tearing the airplane apart.
Fly the A-20 for a while and you will learn energy management and you will develop the feel needed to never again break a fighter by pulling too much G.
My regards,
Widewing
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Well on my last sorty with the A20 i got 7 kills of wich one was a gv
I was flying around a base and a 109 came up i had more e and smoked his engine. (while outclimbing the 109 dweeb) He just ignored the fact the A20 can be a *****.<<-- BIATCH whaaa
I got out of ammo at that point, than i got the victim on my tail raised the nose shift x and finished it of with the dorsal.
Better not forget u have one. He became kill 8 btw :)
I flew just a few sorties and i have a KD of 1/18 in it .
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I was doing Base Capping on a VH, and my Squadmate with me was downed by an F4U, He diddn't even pay me mind because I was in an A20, while he was goin into shoot my Squaddies chute, I let loose with my .50 Cals and ripped him to pieces. Guess he will learn next time, ne?
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Widewing,
Totally agree on your comments, only ever come across one A20 flown with E retention and he did put up a good fight until eventually bled all his E away and made for a easy kill. Think I was in a D Pony at the time.
A20 is like 110 and other single dorsal gun planes, waste of time trying to defend from that position and better off making a fight out of it.
Will try out the A20 sometime, see how it goes. Good post by the way.
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~
Originally posted by Widewing
The A-20 is all about careful energy management. Level acceleration is relatively poor, so you need to conserve speed. On the other hand, dive acceleration is tremendous, so you need to carefully manage high-speeds or you risk tearing the airplane apart.
Fly the A-20 for a while and you will learn energy management and you will develop the feel needed to never again break a fighter by pulling too much G.
My regards,
Widewing
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Gixer, that move is not hard to do at all. I'm using shift+x which is auto angle. I just gently pull vertical and engage auto angle and that's it. I've used it in other planes aswell.
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" On the other hand, dive acceleration is tremendous, so you need to carefully manage high-speeds or you risk tearing the airplane apart."
Yeah. I learned that one the hard way. But I found that when I do a split-S in an A-20 (great manuever on lower enemies who never expect such a thing) it's best to chop throttle completelyBEFORE rolling over. Even then a little prayer helps keep the empendages on! ;)
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Originally posted by Widewing
I refer to the A-20G as the P-38's fat, ugly sister. :D
My regards,
Widewing
I had just told a squaddie this past weekend I found that the a20G was unexpectedly good training for the P-38. I flew a20 quite a bit last tour and doing so seems to have vastly improved my P--38 this tour.
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Yes, an easy move but not very effective. Post is about the A20's maneuverability and retaining energy. Going into a auto climb neglects both of these qualities and relying on the dorsal gun opens you up for an easy kill.
Although, If the fighter has no balls and breaks away on seeing your tracers, you've still ended up in a worse position by blowing a good portion of your energy in the autoclimb and leaving you very vulnerable to the second pass.
Forget the dorsal gun exists and try merging with folks, they'll be suprised that they are being engaged aggressively by a buff and you'll probably suprise yourself at the same time with a few kills.
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~
Originally posted by mora
Gixer, that move is not hard to do at all. I'm using shift+x which is auto angle. I just gently pull vertical and engage auto angle and that's it. I've used it in other planes aswell.
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Mora I mean no offense, truly, but if you are having regular success w/ the maneuver you suggested, you are fortunate to run into inexperienced and/or unskilled sticks.
I'm not as experienced as many in here, having flown for just over a year, but if you somehow manage to last long enough to pull that move on me, I'll have your tail chewed off before you can get a round off at me from your turret. Now, I don't fly a cannon plane and have only a year's experience so I bet there are more than a few sticks who would make you pay for a "move" like that.
WW is a clever pilot and he really used the a20 well but look at the moves his opponents try: almost textbook on how NOT to escape an aggressively flown A20. I'm sure WW executed w/ precision as is his wont, but other than a friendly vulchee, one would have trouble finding more cooperative targets.
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I know it's not an effective manouver and it will blow your E, and that's why I only use it when everything else fails. Usually people just tend forget that this agreessively manouvering bomber has defensive weapons. A-20G is indeed quite effective as a fighter but it's biggest drawback IMHO is ineffective elevator.
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During one of my last AH missions with my mighty C.205 I engaged in a high-speed dogfight (better: chase) with an A20 at medium altitude.
The pilot was very smart and kept the thing very fast with wide turns, slightly climbing or diving away. I tried to get close to him, our speed was always between 350 and 400mph+ TAS. After a couple of minutes I gave up. Its incredible how fast the thing is and how well is able to build up and retain Energy.
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A-20 (F-20?) is a great plane...load her up with 500s, thwack a few GVs or so and you are all cleaned up and ready to terrorize some some cons
I, too, found the rear gun pretty much useless...big tail in the way
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The A-20 is indeed a nice plane to fly, I've been able to dogfight with a load of bombs, and still win, but who knows that coulda been a nOOb..:lol
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The A-20/Boston FM has got to be the "BIGGEST LOAD OF *****" that is in AH today!
Who the HELL ever heard of real life A-20/Boston pilots dogfighting and WINNING fights with the likes of ME-109 and Zekes!
Don't get me wrong, I have read of some incredible things done by pilots of the A-20 and some massive damage the planes have incured and still returned to base but there IS NO FARKIN WAY the A-20/Boston should be able to dogfight like that! Much less do it and keep from tearing itself apart.
This one is even better than the A6M2's "rubber band powered" cannons. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Well on my last sorty with the A20 i got 7 kills of wich one was a gv
I was flying around a base and a 109 came up i had more e and smoked his engine. (while outclimbing the 109 dweeb) He just ignored the fact the A20 can be a *****.<<-- BIATCH whaaa
I got out of ammo at that point, than i got the victim on my tail raised the nose shift x and finished it of with the dorsal.
Better not forget u have one. He became kill 8 btw :)
I flew just a few sorties and i have a KD of 1/18 in it .
Racked up 200 kills in 2 hours 1 night in the A20 a few tours ago. 8 500's go along way against the gv hordes you sometimes face :D
Love the ride and you can outrun spit's at low alt in it.
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Got 5 a2a kills in A-20 one night furballing over bish base at 5-10k. 2 niks, a spit, pony and 190. I also have the longest non bombergun kill in an A-20 Spit couldnt outfly me so he dove off and did the run and HO, he pulled around at 3k came back ,met a faceful of lead at 1.8k and his wing fell of at 1.6k out.
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..ok, I am missing something, so sorry if this sounds TOTTALLY off, but I kinda have my apt. half-assed packed & can't find any of my books, but.. what is the biggest differance between the A-20/DB-7 and the A-26.. I know it's not THAT big o one, but fer the life o me I can't remember it .. hell, I jus wanna fignd my book on fighter-craft.. :-(
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The A20 was a smaller aircraft with a hard nose and 6 50cal's. It had 1600 HP radials and was used as a fast attack strike bomber with a secondary capability as a night fighter. The night fighter part wasn't used because the P-61 came along. The A26 was similar in design to the B26 but in reality it was very very differernt. The A26 was designed from the ground up to be an interdictor. The most fearsome combination of firepower available to allies from the late 1930's upto when the F-14 tomcat came into service, nothing could haul as much ordinance as the A26. Available in several configurations, some mounting 20mm cannon and a 50cal combination in a hard nose, to having 8 50cal's in the nose followed by 3 50cal's in each wing, and mounting rockets + an internal bombload. The A26 would accellerate rapidly to 400mph according to Dukemskt. Dukemskt, who is a member here and also happens to be my boss was an A26 driver during Vietnam and the following to say about it.
"One night we came upon an old GMC duce and a half and strafed the ***** out of it. We came back around and it looked like a *****ed up GMC duce and a half, so we rocketed it and napalmed it. After that it was a *****ed up burning GMC duce and a half and is probally still on fire today."
Interesting note about the A26, it had a roll rate that was phenominal - even greater then that of the P38 or P61. It would roll so fast that if you were not careful you could red out. It was a fantastic plane that was overbuilt, and as such still see's service as a borate bomber up in the northern canada territory through Airspray services.
Best,
Wolfala.
P.S. I have the pilot operating handbook from 1945 that I scanned into PDF format if you want it. Same goes for the P51D/K, P38L and P47N
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200 Kills in 2 Hours? Which tour was that?
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~
Originally posted by AHGOD
Racked up 200 kills in 2 hours 1 night in the A20 a few tours ago. 8 500's go along way against the gv hordes you sometimes face :D
Love the ride and you can outrun spit's at low alt in it.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
Originally posted by Widewing
Over the past month (covering portions of two tours) I have been flying the A-20G quite a bit as a fighter-bomber. I have enjoyed quite a few sorties where I engaged in combat with all kinds of fighters, from 18k, right down to the deck.
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Personally I love the A20G: Next to the P-38L its the 1 aircraft i've flown that has taken a beating and kept me comming home.
As for history on it: It was designed with a secondary capability as being a night fighter - but since the P-61 was awarded the role, it was never utilized as such.
I have nothing but respect for A20 pilots.
Best,
The Wolf
Actually A-20 was modified into the Douglas P-70, which served until the P-61 was ready. See the thread regarding the P-61.
Besides the dorsal twin .50 turret, at least some models of the A-20 also had a .30 cal ventral tunnel gun (as in the TBF/M Avenger), which for some reason has not been modeled in the AH version. Let's all us A20 flyers lobby to have that Avenger tunnel gun art slapped on the A20.
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Originally posted by Rasker
Actually A-20 was modified into the Douglas P-70, which served until the P-61 was ready. See the thread regarding the P-61.
Besides the dorsal twin .50 turret, at least some models of the A-20 also had a .30 cal ventral tunnel gun (as in the TBF/M Avenger), which for some reason has not been modeled in the AH version. Let's all us A20 flyers lobby to have that Avenger tunnel gun art slapped on the A20.
Originally, HTC said that the ventral gun was left off due to not having photos of the interior to model. Not long after, photos were posted here.... It wasn't a major priority though.
The ventral gun installation on the A-20G was a single .50 caliber machine gun. Earlier models mounted a single, and sometimes a pair of .30 (depending on who was using the aircraft it could be 30-06, .303 or 7.5mm) caliber MGs.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Gixer
Widewing,
Totally agree on your comments, only ever come across one A20 flown with E retention and he did put up a good fight until eventually bled all his E away and made for a easy kill. Think I was in a D Pony at the time.
A20 is like 110 and other single dorsal gun planes, waste of time trying to defend from that position and better off making a fight out of it.
Will try out the A20 sometime, see how it goes. Good post by the way.
...-Gixer
~Hells Angels~
LOL I and the guy's I fly with have many kills from the dorsal turret. If you got energy go up and they will follow watermelon your a buff!!!! Best kills are in a ju88 though!